movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 10, 2013 10:38:45 GMT -5
DQ - good point. I guess it is more the technology that has changed.
ETA: I also think its easier to "jump on the bandwagon" when it comes to bullying online. Those that might not bully a person to their face might find it easier to do online when all they have to do it join an "I hate such-and-such" FB page. May not sound like a big deal to us as adults but when a kid opens up a page and sees that 350 people (random #) hate them it can make the world feel pretty crappy.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 10, 2013 10:50:54 GMT -5
I'm not comfortable with needing a pattern to emerge before we are willing to call something bullying - it implies that it is okay to do these things as long as you only do them once or once in a while. I disagree. Bad behavior is bad behavior and needs to be dealt with. There is a huge difference between one instance of bad behavior and a pattern of systematic abuse, especially when the abuse is being dished out by a group. When the boys walked up to me giggling and asked me how my dad was a week after he had died, it wasn't an isolated incident. It was routine behavior, and I would have been truely shocked if they had missed the opportunity to tease me about my dead father. I was accustomed to being told several hundred times a day what a dork I was. It was just another day, not even a particularly bad day. When I went to my father's funeral, I sat there stonefaced. I wasn't in shock. I had known for 9 months that he was going to die. I had just gotten very good at holding back the tears.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 10, 2013 10:53:03 GMT -5
As the parent of a child who had his leg broken by a bully, I ask you to be more careful of the labels you apply to people's behavior. I have seen people make inappropriate and/or rude comments to others on the boards but in my opinion I have not witnessed bullying.
I'm sorry about your son too, but bullying does not have to be physical.
When everyone "piles on" a certain poster (and I don't have anyone in particular in mind, there have been numerous examples and I'm as guilty of joining in the pile-on as anyone else), I do consider that bullying. If you are on your own, especially during a discussion of something very personal to you, and everyone else is against you and feeding off one another, no one even has to say anything particularly insulting for the bullying mentality to take over.
Bullying is definitely a problem on this board and I've been working on my own contribution to it. When the pack mentality takes over, people can get seriously hurt... and that shouldn't be discounted.
Now to read the rest of the replies.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 10, 2013 10:54:06 GMT -5
I agree former - so often people say things because of something that happened in their life. Kids are no different. I'm in a pretty foul mood today. Does that mean I should be punished for bullying?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 10:54:11 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree. When DS was in pre-school he was quiet and polite and there was this bossy pants little boy who always shoved his way to the front of the line, etc. Once, on the playground, DS was trying to save a place on the wall for his best friend, and bossy pants came over and tried to sit there. DS said he was saving the spot, Bossy pants got rude and shoved DS, DS punched him - in the nose- drawing blood. My little polite child was a thug. I was upset and wanted to talk to our son about 'using his words.' DH wouldn't let me, he said boys have to learn how to stand up to the bossy pants kids, or they become victims. He told DS it was ok that he punched that kid, because the kid started it. I talked to the teachers at the school, thinking they would agree with me, but they agreed with DH - they said there are always some bossy pants kids that push the other kids around, and they need to be put in their place by the other kids, so they learn they can't act like a terrorist all the time. DS did NOT get in trouble at the day care for punching bossy pants - in fact they were proud of him for standing up for himself. DS never again punched a kid in school - but he also was never bullied, either. He knew how to back a bossy pants kid down. I did too - although I was a girl, I never had to punch anyone, but I learned how to verbally fend off nasty talk (having two older sisters helped with that) and I never got picked on. The kids that did get picked on were the ones that melted and cried when another girl made fun of them - that's like catnip to the mean kids. Yes we should discipline the bossy pants kids and teach them it isn't proper to bully- but we need to do a better job teaching the meek kids how to be aggressive and back the bullies up to get them to shut up and leave. I have never been a cryer, but I guess I was meek. At first I didn't understand why people picked on me, but it helped me to learn early on that not everyone is going to like you for whatever reason and I knew I was a good person so I just let it go. Maybe my not reacting to their taunts ticked them off and that is why they continued; they were trying to get a rise out of me. I have to say it did culminate in a fight. The "ring leader" and I were the two finalists for the Presidential Physical Fitness Challenge in 5th or 6th grade and had to spend the day competing against each other (talk about an after school special ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/tongue2.png) ). She didn't like that I scored higher than her on some of the things and so the next gym class her and her cronies tried to pull me out of the locker room while I was in my underwear. I fended them off, got dressed and her and I got into a fight when I came out of the locker room (I took out years of aggression on her, so even though my form wasn't great, I made up for it in enthusiasm! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) . We were both sent to the Principal's office and she got suspended and I was sent back to class. They'd make comments to me in the hall but nothing like they did before the fight. It's kind of sad that it took a physical altercation to get them to stop. Well, that and the "ring leader" moved out of state the next year. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) I don't like how nowadays BOTH kids gets suspended for fighting regardless of who started it. The advice about "go find an adult and don't hit back" isn't realistic. If you're getting off the bus to go home and someone tries to attack you, you may be running for a while until you get to the next adult. As an adult, I'm not going to let someone hit me until I find a cop to help me, so why should we teach kids to do this?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 10:58:50 GMT -5
I agree former - so often people say things because of something that happened in their life. Kids are no different. I'm in a pretty foul mood today. Does that mean I should be punished for bullying? I don't know, are you making other people pay for our foul mood? Are you picking just to get a rise? Do you feel better when you 'score' and the other person feels bad?
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 10, 2013 10:59:58 GMT -5
I don't like how nowadays BOTH kids gets suspended for fighting regardless of who started it. The advice about "go find an adult and don't hit back" isn't realistic. If you're getting off the bus to go home and someone tries to attack you, you may be running for a while until you get to the next adult. As an adult, I'm not going to let someone hit me until I find a cop to help me, so why should we teach kids to do this?
I totally agree!! I think it is complete BS actually to expect a kid to sit there getting his ass kicked without fighting back.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 10, 2013 11:01:45 GMT -5
[/span]
Apparently. I asked constenz how long she will keep her clothes if she isn't wearing them. And she told me I was being snarky and announced she was leaving the thread. I thought it was a reasonable question - but I guess I'm a giant asshole for wondering how people maintain a large wardrobe.
[/span]
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 10, 2013 11:05:00 GMT -5
I also think its easier to "jump on the bandwagon" when it comes to bullying online.
That's a "normal" part of human psychology though. We're all more likely to do something if we feel we won't get caught or can remain anoymous. There have been quite a few studies done on it.
The most anoymous place there is is the internet. The odds of you finding out who I am in RL and catching me is pretty slim.
Which is why instead of wringing our hands and bemoaning "kids today" we adults need to get off our behinds and start using/learning the same things our kids are. You can't watch out for/discuss something if don't even know what it is.
Right now I have no use for Twitter, I don't get it. If Gwen was old enough to be on there though I'd have an account in a heartbeat and be following her around. IMO it's important for me to know what's going on in her online world as much as it is her real life world.
She will need to be taught that just because you sit behind a screen it doesn't make it okay to harass people. That's not something my parents had to teach me, we didn't even get our first computer till 8th grade and social media was pretty limited. It was fairly easy to control what I did online.
Now it's everywhere. I have to tailor what I teach Gwen to the enviroment she lives in.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 10, 2013 11:09:01 GMT -5
The PC wasn't even invented when I was in 8th grade. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) My first social media experience was a program called "Space Bar" - LOL Just a chat room, on a black screen with a green cursor.[/span]
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 10, 2013 11:11:10 GMT -5
The PC wasn't even invented when I was in 8th grade.
Thyme is old. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 11:11:59 GMT -5
HA! I (vaguely) remember being on something like that, thyme. I remember my humor prompting someone to ask me if I was a 13 year old boy. Some things never change. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/tongue2.png)
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 10, 2013 11:12:48 GMT -5
The PC wasn't even invented when I was in 8th grade. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) My first social media experience was a program called "Space Bar" - LOL Just a chat room, on a black screen with a green cursor. I remember when I thought the computer trick on Pretty in Pink was cool ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 10, 2013 11:13:02 GMT -5
I just looked it up and the PC was invented by the time I was in 8th grade. So, I'm back to being middle aged. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 11:14:57 GMT -5
It was probably invented, just not common I went to college with a word processing typewriter and microfiche. My first computer was bought in my children's lifetimes, so 12 years ago maybe? I'm only 40. Someone on facebook posted a picture the other day, " some day ill tell my grandkids I'm older than the Internet and blow their minds' ... I was like, some day you'll tell them that and they'll say, 'the inter what?'
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 10, 2013 11:22:46 GMT -5
I went to college with a word processor as well and all the girls on my hall were always wanting to borrow it ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png) I also remember going to the computer lab in college when my word processor crapped out on me (probably from everyone borrowing it ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/angry2.png) ) and sweating bullets because I had a paper due and I was afraid there wouldn't be a computer available.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 10, 2013 11:25:52 GMT -5
I showed my kids "Pong" - I don't think they believed me that it was a mind-blowing awesome video game when I was their age.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 11:30:45 GMT -5
I'm not comfortable with needing a pattern to emerge before we are willing to call something bullying - it implies that it is okay to do these things as long as you only do them once or once in a while. I disagree. Bad behavior is bad behavior and needs to be dealt with. There is a huge difference between one instance of bad behavior and a pattern of systematic abuse, especially when the abuse is being dished out by a group. When the boys walked up to me giggling and asked me how my dad was a week after he had died, it wasn't an isolated incident. It was routine behavior, and I would have been truely shocked if they had missed the opportunity to tease me about my dead father. I was accustomed to being told several hundred times a day what a dork I was. It was just another day, not even a particularly bad day. When I went to my father's funeral, I sat there stonefaced. I wasn't in shock. I had known for 9 months that he was going to die. I had just gotten very good at holding back the tears. So, in your experience, when did these boys become bullies? After a day? After a week? After your father's death? And when, in your mom's experience, or your teacher's, or your friend's experience did the things happening to you become bullying? How much had you endured before they knew what was going on? I wouldn't presume to know what you went through, but in my experiences, it is bullying from the start.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Apr 10, 2013 11:31:29 GMT -5
I think a very important lesson to learn is that you can't control other people. By society changing the focus to "the bully" or even the more vague problem of "bullying" in general, we have told kids that their problems will go away if someone else changes their behavior. In reality, everyone has to learn to deal with their own crap, and things that are outside their control. This isn't to say that I think bullying should be allowed - but focusing on it being a defect with someone else is one link in our chain of lack of personal responsibility. That is exactly what I wanted to say, just couldn't put it as eloquently. Have I told you how awesome you are ??
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Apr 10, 2013 11:32:54 GMT -5
Thyme- I agree that in a he said/he said situation you could easily get kids in trouble. In the case with the cop pulling the kid from class DS knows both kids and told me the whole story. We'll call the kids Joe and Bob. One day Bob saw Joe and his mom at the mall. Joe's mom is apparently quite attractive. Bob later told Joe "You're mom's hot. I'd rape the shit of out that" (that's what DS was told that Bob said). Joe obviously took offense to that and Bob continued to needle him about it and talk about how hot Joe's mom was. Joe had finally had enough and said "that's it. Meet me behind the grocery store at 3:30 today and we're going to settle this. I'm going to kick your ass and you're going to shut up about my mom". Bob went to the office and said "Joe has a knife and said he's going to kick my ass after school today. I'm afraid he's going to kill me" So the school called the cops. They pulled Joe from class and questioned him. He denied having a knife or ever even mentioning having a knife. The cops told him that since there was no proof or witnesses they wouldn't go any further discipline wise. BUT they would have a cop at the grocery store after school and if either kid showed up they were hauling them into the cop shop and calling their parents. Neither kid showed up, spring break started the next day and as far as I know both kids have moved on with their lives.
I'd rather have the school take it seriously and sort it out than ignore it and adopt a "let's wait and see what happens" attitude.
That same week two girls got in a screaming match and ended in punches being thrown and hair being pulled. They suspended both girls for 3 days. Since this was Thursday before spring break they were suspended that Friday and the Monday and Tuesday following spring break.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 10, 2013 11:33:08 GMT -5
[/span] Wow - I should come here more often...oh wait, I'm here all the time. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Apr 10, 2013 11:38:41 GMT -5
In my class, girls created this notebook that I got passed around. It had questions like "who is your favorite boy" "who is your least favorite boy", "who do you want to kiss the most" "who is gross you you never want to kiss", etc etc etc
yes, i understand it's not internet and doesn't have the same outreach, but the idea is pretty much the same. And it was many decades ago in a country far away....
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 10, 2013 11:41:09 GMT -5
In my class, girls created this notebook that I got passed around. It had questions like "who is your favorite boy" "who is your least favorite boy", "who do you want to kiss the most" "who is gross you you never want to kiss", etc etc etc yes, i understand it's not internet and doesn't have the same outreach, but the idea is pretty much the same. And it was many decades ago in a country far away.... We called it The Slam Book. Nostalgic now...
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Apr 10, 2013 11:47:28 GMT -5
I actually find that yelling "Bully" is a way to BULLY other people. By calling someone a bully, you label them and discount anything they have to say. This is often used by people now simply when someone disagrees with their positions or arguments. And I can say starting a thread telling someone how they should feel about a giving situation and articulating for them that what they feel is bullying is indeed not; to me in itself it is a form of "bullying". You are telling others how they should feel about a given situation, somewhat lecturing them and trying to force them into submission; taking the stand that because "you" say so that is the way it is when you are not the one on the receiving end. Yep to me that in itself is "bullying"; The OP is being a bully. No, it is called learning how to be a grown up and the fact that not everyone is going to agree with you or what you do or think . And, as a "grown up" nobody "bullies' me. If i dont' like what they are doing or saying, i walk away from them or don't deal with them.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Apr 10, 2013 11:50:59 GMT -5
Does anyone remember "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me"? That was good advice. Instead we are now teaching our kids to dissolve into a hot mess of heaping tears just because someone calls them a "poo poo head". And, yeah, my kids have been bullied and so was i for awhile in school as well. Who HASN'T been bullied? Yes, bullying is wrong and i teach my kids how to properly treat other people. But, i have also taught my kids that they are "strong' and that the opinions of some bully don't have to take center stage in their life. We aren't teaching our kids to be resilient. The MESSAGE today is that if you are bullied, then that is the WORST thing that could ever happen to you and you might as well hang yourself in your bedroom. So, how are we helping our children? We are only HURTING them if we dont' teach them that they are strong and capable in their own right.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 10, 2013 11:56:06 GMT -5
[/span]
Well - yes and no. I can't tell my kids that is true, and then turn around and instill in them that their words matter and how they treat people and what they say to them can hurt someone. I want my kids to be kinder than I am. That is why when some kid my fun of my son's shirt I told my son to tell him to go eat rocks. I let it be a truth that words hurt, but tried to make sure my son knew that kid didn't have power over his wardrobe. It is a fine line to walk. Especially with kids like mine. I could see them falling on either side of the spectrum. My son could be a jock, and go along with the testosterone fueled attitude fest that goes along with it. Or, he might be picked on. My daughter could be the nerd, or latch onto the "mean girls." I need to make sure we are prepared for either side.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 11:58:50 GMT -5
My girls have way too much practice being resilient.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 10, 2013 12:14:13 GMT -5
Thyme- I agree that in a he said/he said situation you could easily get kids in trouble. In the case with the cop pulling the kid from class DS knows both kids and told me the whole story. We'll call the kids Joe and Bob. One day Bob saw Joe and his mom at the mall. Joe's mom is apparently quite attractive. Bob later told Joe "You're mom's hot. I'd rape the shit of out that" (that's what DS was told that Bob said). Joe obviously took offense to that and Bob continued to needle him about it and talk about how hot Joe's mom was. Joe had finally had enough and said "that's it. Meet me behind the grocery store at 3:30 today and we're going to settle this. I'm going to kick your ass and you're going to shut up about my mom". Bob went to the office and said "Joe has a knife and said he's going to kick my ass after school today. I'm afraid he's going to kill me" So the school called the cops. They pulled Joe from class and questioned him. He denied having a knife or ever even mentioning having a knife. The cops told him that since there was no proof or witnesses they wouldn't go any further discipline wise. BUT they would have a cop at the grocery store after school and if either kid showed up they were hauling them into the cop shop and calling their parents. Neither kid showed up, spring break started the next day and as far as I know both kids have moved on with their lives. I'd rather have the school take it seriously and sort it out than ignore it and adopt a "let's wait and see what happens" attitude. That same week two girls got in a screaming match and ended in punches being thrown and hair being pulled. They suspended both girls for 3 days. Since this was Thursday before spring break they were suspended that Friday and the Monday and Tuesday following spring break. So one kid trashed talked about the other kid's mom, the other kid got mad and trash talked him back, and the first kid goes whining to the principal that he was threatened? Sorry but talking trash about your momma is just standard boy behavior. So is talking trash back. Back in my day, the school would have let the two of them slug it out, then suspended them both for fighting. Police would not have been called. I realize with all the heightened awareness of terrorism and school security we are all touchy feely on this kind of thing, but IMHO the police shouldn't have been called. The parents should have been called, and Bob should have been made to write a 1000 word essay on not being rude about someone's momma, and that should have been it.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 10, 2013 12:15:34 GMT -5
I hope I'm so hot my son has to be suspended. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 12:16:13 GMT -5
"Yo Momma's Suspension HOTT!!!" ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png)
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