kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Nov 26, 2012 21:07:34 GMT -5
Ladies, I need some advice. Warning: It's going to be long.
I recently discovered DH has not been paying the bills on time that he's responsible for. We have a joint checking but some bills are in his name and some are in mine. I guess I was asleep at the switch because I failed to notice some things weren't getting paid regularly. And I just found out today he has some credit cards I didn't even know he has. Nor did I know the limits and balances on his credit cards.
So, there are late and over-the-limit fees being tacked on his credit cards. Our Verizon bill is crazy high because he skipped a month. I had to catch up on his truck payment.
I've taken over paying all of the bills. I just did a written budget. We already had a little talk about getting caught up, etc., but I was still unaware of the amount of credit card debt he had. I have a plan to tackle the credit card debt.
We have enough money to pay our bills each month and put some money into savings, but we are super tight now that I have to get us caught up.
But this really is about a bigger issue for me regarding our lifestyle since we've had kids. I feel like I've had to give up the most. I do the bulk of the household chores and childcare. DH still goes on hunting and fishing trips. He still spends freely. Just in the past two months he's spent $800 on hunting.
Before kids I used to get massages a couple of times a month, go out with my friends every weekend, take vacations with my friends, get pedicures, buy clothes from J.Crew, etc. Now I occasionally buy clothes on sale from Old Navy or Target and I get my hair done every 6 weeks. That's about it. And I have to cancel my hair appointment for this weekend because I can't afford to get my hair done after his hunting and making a double vehicle payment.
Honestly, I'm frustrated and really resentful. I know we need to talk about this. But I don't know how to frame the conversation so I don't get accusatory and he doesn't get defensive.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 26, 2012 21:11:35 GMT -5
Honey, I'm feeling resentful because I feel like I'm doing all the work
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 26, 2012 21:26:33 GMT -5
There's never an easy way to bring up an uncomfortable subject, unfortunately. Thing is, this has to be ironed out or there will be more problems down the road. He hasn't been honest with you, and he hasn't been considering your needs and your equal place in the marriage. It sounds like he's been all about him with no thought to what his whims might be costing you. It's that kind of thing that leads to real trouble.
You've got resentment issues, and you've got trust issues. That's not even looking at the financial issues and the unfairness. As Swamp said, you need to come out with the way you feel and insist a plan be set in place to deal with these problems before they get worse and end up putting an unbearable strain on your marriage. At least, that's what I'd do.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Nov 26, 2012 21:35:23 GMT -5
kgb You can't be worried about how he'll react or him being defensive. It's to be expected since he didn't do what he was supposed to do and you two need to be on the same page. What was all of the money spent on? Can you tell? I'd check that out first. Then I'd start finding out why he didn't ask for your help if he wasn't able to do his part in paying those bills on time. I'm sure it's just stress but it needs to be addressed. I hope you are able to stay calm while talking about this but don't let him place blame on you for bringing it up. That would not be fair and he'll need to hear that if he tries that approach. In the meantime - you know what I would recommend (hint: ). And maybe bring out your biggest skillet for back-up.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Nov 26, 2012 22:18:03 GMT -5
It was definitely spent on hunting stuff and food/beer for the hunting camp. The bulk of it he spent at a sporting goods store. He just told me a couple of weeks ago he needed a new hunting coat, and it would be a good Christmas present. I can tell you that's not happening. I don't think he's doing anything shady. I'm just frustrated that he continues to spend money and take trips like he did before we had kids, and I've made all the adjustments. And I don't mind doing that for my children. I love them so much. They're so much more important to me than any things or trips. But it feels unfair that I'm the only one giving things up. As far as him not paying the bills, it's pure procrastination and laziness, and then the money got spent because, well, it was there. And I'm partially to blame for that. I wasn't paying attention to what he wasn't paying. In the past I've tried to bring up how I feel in terms of him taking so many hunting/fishing trips. He always says, "You can take a trip with your friends too." But A) We don't have the money for me to a take a trip. And B) When the hell would I go? POM, LOL. Now I wish I had bought that cast iron skillet I was eying up a few months ago.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2012 22:36:52 GMT -5
First you are not to blame for what he did because you weren't watching him. That is called codependancy and most people are not happy in that kind of relationship. Second, don't generally say you are upset about not doing stuff. Tell him that you want to do a specific thing and it is going to require this much money and him watching the kids on this week or weekend. The next time he plans a hunting trip you explain that you don't have the money for it right now. He can go again once you guys are caught up.
ETA - I repeat, don't talk about all of his hunting and fishing trips. Explain why this particular one can't happen, no money and you need help with the kids.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Nov 26, 2012 23:11:01 GMT -5
You really do need to sit down and discuss this with him because if you don't it could just fester and get worse. Try to express things in terms of concrete actions and how they make you feel rather than speculating on his motives. A neutral way to phrase things would be "when you do X, I feel Y, because of Z" e.g. when you don't pay the bills on time, I feel resentful, because then I have to use all of my spending money to cover the late fees and over-limit fees.
You can use a similar format for the unequal household chores and such, just make sure you are addressing the behavior and not the person. Then listen to what he has to say and try to come to a compromise on what will work for both of you.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2012 23:16:57 GMT -5
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 26, 2012 23:52:02 GMT -5
Laterbloomer is so right! You are not at fault for not "watching" a fully grown adult male to be sure he doesn't spend more money than he has, and to ensure the bills he knows need to be paid are, indeed, paid. That's none of your doing at all. That's all on him, no ifs, ands or buts. He needs to own that, take responsibility for that, and be accountable for that. If he doesn't learn to do those things now, he's not ever going to learn to do them.
As far as his hunting trips, next time he wants to go, the answer is "No, we can't afford a hunting trip for you right now because we're still trying to catch up on the mess you made of the finances." He's also got to learn to stop putting himself before the children and you. He's not an island. He's a father and a husband. He needs to act like a father and a husband.
What you're describing, kgb, is a recipe for disaster if it isn't brought under control quickly. It's not going to be easy, but it is absolutely necessary.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Nov 27, 2012 0:07:30 GMT -5
I dunno, kgb. I don't know much about anything, but I do think you may be giving hubby an "out" by taking on some of the blame for this. That way he can say, "See? It's not ALL my fault." when it IS all his fault. It's not your job to watch him. He's a grown man and should be able to do what he is supposed to do without being checked up on.
I agree with mmhmm and later. There are NO hunting trips in his future until he gets his mess cleaned up and starts acting like a father and a husband.
Want me to kick his ass for you?
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Nov 27, 2012 8:40:51 GMT -5
I agree with mmhmm and later. There are NO hunting trips in his future until he gets his mess cleaned up and starts acting like a father and a husband. I don't know if that is the best thing to do - cutting him off completely. I only say this because my husband is also a big hunter and fisherman. (caveat: we don't have any kids). But if I said he couldn't take any hunting trips at all, right now at the start of rifle season, he would be extremely, extremely resentful, even if it was his fault that he ran up the CCs, didn't pay the bills, etc. I assume he is already on a trip right now since rifle started yesterday or he is planning one for this weekend, etc. I would sit down and talk to him right before the next trip. Tell him that he can go on this trip, but all other trips are off until you get the financial ship in order. That while you appreciate all of the meat (if you even eat venison and whatever else he hunts) that he contributes to the household and are glad that he has a hobby that he enjoys, that the amount of money that he has spent in the past few months while neglecting the bills have put you two in financial hardship. That all fun stuff has to be cut until things are back on track. Mention that you have already cancelled your hair appointment and have put off buying new clothes or whatever and that he has to contribute by not taking anymore hunting trips. He can still do a day or half day sit around your area - he doesn't always have to go away for days at a time. Etc. I can relate since my husband spends a lot of money on hunting stuff too. But he always asks or lets me know first so I'm not surprised by the charges. On the other hand, I am the one that buys lots of expensive running stuff without telling him. Oops! Hope it goes well!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 8:48:43 GMT -5
Marriage is continually negotiated. First, i would just focus on the bills and why are they getting paid late? I would deal with that issue. The hunting/fishing, you feeling resentful and so forth is another issue. I have found i do best with DH just taking one issue at a time. Ya know, men are like waffles and women like spaghetti. We can interconnect and process multiple issues at once but some guys don't get the connection. So, if that is the main issue, now, i would stick with that. And, maybe you should take over the bills and have him do some other chore like grocery shopping or laundry or something like that. Try to find what works for you as a couple. And, really what your spouse "should" or shouldn't be doing, you are going to get a lot of advice on the "shoulds". But, i think you need to find an approach that gives you peace and one that works for the both of you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 8:53:45 GMT -5
What I do with my wife is just constantly nag her about what she spends money on. This is not a quick solution, but a long term one where I try to change her spending habits slowly over time. Not sure if it is working yet or not.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 27, 2012 9:00:59 GMT -5
First you are not to blame for what he did because you weren't watching him. That is called codependancy and most people are not happy in that kind of relationship. Second, don't generally say you are upset about not doing stuff. Tell him that you want to do a specific thing and it is going to require this much money and him watching the kids on this week or weekend. The next time he plans a hunting trip you explain that you don't have the money for it right now. He can go again once you guys are caught up. ETA - I repeat, don't talk about all of his hunting and fishing trips. Explain why this particular one can't happen, no money and you need help with the kids. Yep, I'm with later and mmmhm on this. But be aware that I also have a hard time telling DH that I'm resentful (he spent a hefty chunk of T-day weekend online looking for deals while I dealt with meals and the kids.)
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Nov 27, 2012 9:22:19 GMT -5
Have you shown him in black and white on paper what his trips, materials, beer, late fees, etc all add up to? DH started a new hobby that he does with DS. I'm happy that they are bonding and having fun together but I had to sit down a couple of months ago and show him what he had all spent. It was a big eye opener for him. I asked him before I showed him the paper what he thought he'd spent. In his mind he'd spent roughly 1/3 of what he actually spent.
Rather than cut them off completely I asked him to suggest a monthly amount that we could earmark for his hobby. It was actually less than the number I had in mind so we went with his number. It's working so far but I do gently remind him when he is getting close to his limit. Sometimes he'll ask for and explain why he needs to spend a little more and some months I'll have to tell him 'sorry babe, no can do this month"
FWIW- I understand how you are feeling. I get in those martyr moods too in which I get really resentful of what he is spending money on. We've had a lot of ups and downs in our relationship so we have learned not to let things fester. I did bitch some this weekend because he told me for probably the fifth time "This can be my Christmas present" I asked him exactly how many freaking presents did he think he was entitled to? Again he was oblivious to what he was actually spending and buying.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 10:42:32 GMT -5
Oh, you did say you took over the bills. Anyway, realize that there are some people who are not and will never be money oriented. But, you have to play to each other's strengths. That doesn't mean he is off the hook but it may be unlikely that he ever becomes a Dave Ramsey convert but that is OK. Have you thought about taking a course together? Our local church has Peace University classes and at least that might spark some understanding. I don't think approaching it with "you need to give up hunting,etc" is going to be very successful in the long run.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 10:47:11 GMT -5
What I do with my wife is just constantly nag her about what she spends money on. This is not a quick solution, but a long term one where I try to change her spending habits slowly over time. Not sure if it is working yet or not. For instance, I just looked at our credit card bill and there was a charge for $300 for clothes so I emailed my wife, "what the heck did you buy at Anthropology?" Those are the kinds of little nags I do.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 27, 2012 10:49:06 GMT -5
One person shouldn't get all the fun money either. Sometimes sacrifices do have to be made when you have kids. Coming out and saying no more hunting will start it off on a bad note but kgb should have some fun money too and that might mean he goes on fewer hunting trips.
I wish you luck with figuring it out kgb. I think having the numbers on paper and showing him would be helpful so he can see that the household spent $x dollars but only brought in $y so without savings you'd be in the red by $z dollars.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 27, 2012 10:49:07 GMT -5
kgb, I want to give you hugs too.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 10:51:31 GMT -5
First of all, my spouse isn't going to come at me and tell me "No, you can't do this or you can't do that". My spouse is not my parent. So, you saying "No, you can't go hunting" as if he is a little boy is not a good approach in my opinion. He obviously loves to hunt and fish. It is who he is. And, if there are some things you want to do, then go do them. I have also found that sometimes the "saver" will cut out all activities when they could do some of those things if they choose. Again, you have to find the middle ground. Maybe you won't save as much as you would like. Maybe your DH prefers living for today more than saving for tomorrow. It is neither right or wrong. You both have to accept some balance in the middle. And, i would also recommend that you and the kids go on some of these trips with him and make it a family event/activity, even if it means you stay in the lodge and cook for the "guys" who are hunting and/or learn to hunt and fish some with him. Canceling trips or cutting back on some of the spending has to come more from him. You might shut it down for awhile, but unless he is part of that decision, he is just going to resent you.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 27, 2012 10:51:49 GMT -5
kgb, I want to give you hugs too. Ditto to that. My phone app doesn't have all the smileys.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 10:52:25 GMT -5
What I do with my wife is just constantly nag her about what she spends money on. This is not a quick solution, but a long term one where I try to change her spending habits slowly over time. Not sure if it is working yet or not. For instance, I just looked at our credit card bill and there was a charge for $300 for clothes so I emailed my wife, "what the heck did you buy at Anthropology?" Those are the kinds of little nags I do. Well, if you want to push her right out the door, keep at it Archie! ;D
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Nov 27, 2012 10:59:22 GMT -5
I agree with Later and others that the paying-the-bills talk needs to be separate from the hunting talk and possibly the 'I feel like I do everything' talk. All three are areas in which it's best to tread lightly, and combining them is likely to result in your DH feeling attacked/defensive and you feeling even more resentful.
I also wouldn't posture it as you forbidding him from going hunting. That's not likely to go over well, and I'm not a big fan of telling other adults what to do. But it might be a good exercise for him to tally up all the money he's spent on hunting AND try to figure out from which part of your current budget the money he's already spent is going to come. Explain that you've already cut some of your own little luxuries out to try to cover the shortfall, and it's only fair that he do the same.
I know it's kind of a hokey idea, but do you think a 'chore' calendar might help? Having everything each of you is to do written out in black and white might be a good tool - both to show your DH how much you take on (I know that I tend to overlook a lot of the under-the-radar things DH does around the house, and vice versa) and to keep you both accountable.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Nov 27, 2012 11:01:32 GMT -5
DH says things like this too - I'm not sure the logic behind it. If we can't afford for him to spend a certain amount on something, how is me spending the same amount on myself going to improve things? But to him that is the definition of fair.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 11:02:48 GMT -5
I am so sorry you're going though this kgb. I don't know what I can say to help, since I felt the same way when my kids were little. DH is an avid golfer and I knew it before we even got married. He takes one golf trip over Memorial Weekend and he is 2 Leagues over the summer. I still got peeved when he would go even though I agreed to the terms because it felt like I was ALWAYS taking care of the kids. Him filling in for people on different leagues during the week or signing up for Tournaments didn't help either. I spent a lot of time concentrating on the times he wasn't around and downplaying all the times he was there. So then I started taking advantage of the times he was home and I would run out to the store for "something" (whether we needed "something" or not ) just to get a breather. I don't have any money advice but here's a virtual .
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Nov 27, 2012 11:26:00 GMT -5
I really like Sroo's plan.
Shooby--tell me that you did not just suggest that kgb take a vacation where she is responsible for not only herself and the kids, but cooking for a group of her dh's friends? I agree if there is anyway to make something into a family outing that is ideal, but no way in hell am I going to waste my vacation taking on extra responsibilities.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 27, 2012 11:27:43 GMT -5
sroo, you have mail.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 27, 2012 11:33:28 GMT -5
Men hunting/fishing vacations SUCK. Why the hell would I want to go? They all get drunk, watch porn and walk around naked. If I want to do that I can stay home by myself. It's man logic to tell us simply to "do what you want to do". I explained to DH that by the time he gets done doing his stuff there isn't any money for me to do anything! What has worked for us is I went to a workshop with TIRRA-CERF (sp?) and I got a workbook that has a handy expense/budget worksheet that breaks down every dime we spend. I got our paystubs and filled it out and showed it to DH. He understands numbers on paper. He couldn't argue with numbers on paper like he does when I just try to talk to him. So we're working on things being more even. DH gets an allowance of up to $160 a month and all his discretionary spending has to come out of that. We're only two weeks in but so far him carrying cash is working otu REALLY nicely. Perhaps suggest you open another account that is just for his fishing/hunting crap. He gets $X amount of money towards it each month and when it is gone, it is gone. I'd also go down to one account. It really sucks but the only way we've been able to save our finance is to go down to one account and I manage it. DH just has zero interest in managing money and if it is there, he will spend it. Now I can make sure all our bills are paid. Before that he'd let his bills become late and would overdraft his account, then would dip into joint savings to make up the difference. As far as doing stuff for yourself, I "went on strike" as Babyproofing your Marriage puts it. I picked a day and I told Dh that I was going out, you need to watch the kid. I made sure he knew well in advance my plans. When it came time, I dropped Gwen into his lap and left. As my therapist said he is the father of my child, what do I think is going to happen if I just leave and let him deal with the kid? I did get one phone call about a massive poop blow out but otherwise he dealt with it just fine. I was sure to discuss that with DH and we've since broken the cycle. I do have to give him some notice in case he works on weekends, but otherwise he's cool with me dropping Gwen into his lap. All I had to do was ask, he didn't understand why I never bothered before.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Nov 27, 2012 11:41:43 GMT -5
kgb, I want to give you hugs too.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 27, 2012 11:58:01 GMT -5
I hope it helps too. Thank you sroo!
edited to fix spelling.
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