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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 11:58:38 GMT -5
I really like Sroo's plan. Shooby--tell me that you did not just suggest that kgb take a vacation where she is responsible for not only herself and the kids, but cooking for a group of her dh's friends? I agree if there is anyway to make something into a family outing that is ideal, but no way in hell am I going to waste my vacation taking on extra responsibilities. Yes. I DID suggest that. And, the problem with that is WHAT? It is her husband and family. Sometimes you have to take a "join them" approach. And, some of us DO enjoy being the cook and serving our families. Not sure how that is "wrong"?
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mourningcloak
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Post by mourningcloak on Nov 27, 2012 12:00:19 GMT -5
kgb I agree with the idea of him having an account just for his hunting stuff. Then he needs to be responsible for what's available for his trips. But you also need an account for trips. He's a father, he can handle a day or a weekend without you. And if he can't, start working on it and take a couple hours to yourself here and there until he's up to the job he should be able to do. Be careful taking over all of the money responsibilities - You may have to be the one who physically pays the bills so that they get paid on time, but if your DH is not involved in the money decisions and aware of what's coming in and going out, your just becoming his parent handing him money when he asks or giving him an allowance. And then he'll be resentful when you say no, even if it's completely reasonable. And you'll be dealing with two resentful people! Like sroo said, you need a system that works for you both and that's likely to happen best with discussions. DH might be unwilling to give up some trips, but he might be willing to limit his trips to just a couple of his favorites until you can get to a point where he could afford more. This might be a good way to incentivize him to participate in discussions. "We have $x per month that we are paying towards debt and that could be one more trip for each of us in a year once its paid off." Hope you figure this out! Being the matyr is not healthy for anyone involved! Been there, burned myself out, learned that if I don't take care of me no one else will!
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Nov 27, 2012 12:06:01 GMT -5
kgb - this is seriously the most common issue I hear about in marriages with kids - feeling like you do all the sacrificing and carry an imbalance of the workload and it's never acknowledged. It's an issue in my marriage and my husband doesn't take off on trips for days and days at a time. I don't have any answers, but good luck and I hope you will come back and let us know how it goes.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 27, 2012 12:09:26 GMT -5
Where's clever? Has he popped in on this yet?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 27, 2012 12:11:20 GMT -5
If the trips are anything like my DH has taken with his guy friends that's the last thing a wife is going to consider a 'fun time". You'll end up being nursemaid to half a dozen other men on top of your own AND taking care of a kid. Not to mention it is very awkward for the other guys to have your wife around.
If it was a family vacation type thing I would agree, but "dude trips" are something else entirely. My DH would rather eat glass than go on a girls night out. I really don't want to be the sole woman in a cabin full of drunk guys.
And that still does not take care of the fact that Kgb would be watching the kids while her DH is out hunting/fishing with the guys. You would take a 3 year old and a newborn out into the woods to shoot? She'll still be the primary caretaker of the kids.
She's just changed the scenery.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Nov 27, 2012 12:14:23 GMT -5
DH says things like this too - I'm not sure the logic behind it. If we can't afford for him to spend a certain amount on something, how is me spending the same amount on myself going to improve things? But to him that is the definition of fair. Man logic from a man who is bad at math?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 12:16:15 GMT -5
There are ways to coexist. My DH loves football. Nothing about that is ever going to change. I have taken a "join them" approach. I couldn't care less about football, but why not participate in some way in something he loves? So, i plan snacks, try to make it an event and so forth. You don't want to have an adversarial relationship. It isn't about who is "right". It is about find a way to live in harmony together where you both feel like each one is caring for and helping one another. In reality, one spouse is going to be more geared one direction or the other. And, in any relationship there are going to be times one or the other feels resentful. But, it is about the longer picture. I think finding a way for her DH to be a bit more engaged and on board is the direction to go. And, perhaps, letting some things go on her part. It is a continual work in progress.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Nov 27, 2012 12:18:18 GMT -5
Yes. I DID suggest that. And, the problem with that is WHAT? It is her husband and family. Sometimes you have to take a "join them" approach. And, some of us DO enjoy being the cook and serving our families. Not sure how that is "wrong"? She is already feeling like her dh gets all the fun and she gets all the responsibility. You are asking her to take her vacation time to enable and facilitate more fun for him. Not to mention I really hate the idea that women should cater to the men-folk and get some kind of self satisfaction from cooking and cleaning for their man. You may not mean it like that, but lots of guys will interpret it that way. I think addressing the inequalities and working towards a solution needs to happen before kgb takes on more responsibilities.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 12:21:46 GMT -5
And, i am addressing it too. There are several approaches. I have already addressed that as well. I am saying there are multiple issues to address across the board. And, taking the "you can't hunt" approach simply is not going to work. Trust me. I live in hunting towns. It isn't a mere hobby it is the passion of many people who live here. But, again, i said she and her DH need to find ways to get on board together without taking an adversarial approach.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 12:23:39 GMT -5
Hey, i am just giving my advice from my perspective. She can take it or leave it.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 27, 2012 12:28:17 GMT -5
couldn't care less about football, but why not participate in some way in something he loves?
I mushroom hunt and have fished with DH plenty of times.
That's not the same thing as going on a dude's hunting trip with kids in tow. We're not talking about all the families getting together to go on a trip.
She'd be stuck in the cabin taking care of the kids and putting up with a bunch of dudes.
Here is what my DH did on his dude trip, verbatim: sat all day in a boat in the middle of the lake getting drunk and trying ot catch fish.
Yeah, that's appropriate to do with kids and your wife.
Kgb needs her own time and her DH is never around because he's too busy doing his own thing. Nobody has said he has to give up hunting or fishing all together.
What he needs to do is recognize that Kgb needs some girl time/alone time too and make room for that in his schedule.
Tagging along on DH's guy time is not the same thing as getting time to yourself to do things you want to do.
You need solo time just as much as you need couple time, which I know is a forgein concept to a lot of female posters on this board.
They need to figure out how DH can have his guy time but not at the expense of Kgb.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 27, 2012 12:31:06 GMT -5
Drama, you and sroo get karma when I can.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 12:33:48 GMT -5
I didn't say to tag along all the time. I said that there is some happy medium in there. She also needs to take time for herself and hobbies as well. But, sometimes, the more money oriented person simply does not allow themselves to do so. Again, it is about finding a balance. In no way am i saying she should subsidize and support every trip. In fact, if she and he can work together, pay things on time, etc, they will have MORE money in the long run to do all the things they both want to do.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 12:35:02 GMT -5
And, i am addressing it too. There are several approaches. I have already addressed that as well. I am saying there are multiple issues to address across the board. And, taking the "you can't hunt" approach simply is not going to work. Trust me. I live in hunting towns. It isn't a mere hobby it is the passion of many people who live here. But, again, i said she and her DH need to find ways to get on board together without taking an adversarial approach. so which of your hobbies/activities has your DH embraced?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 27, 2012 12:37:19 GMT -5
I didn't say to tag along all the time. I said that there is some happy medium in there. She also needs to take time for herself and hobbies as well. But, sometimes, the more money oriented person simply does not allow themselves to do so. Again, it is about finding a balance. In no way am i saying she should subsidize and support every trip. In fact, if she and he can work together, pay things on time, etc, they will have MORE money in the long run to do all the things they both want to do. But that's part of the problem shooby. He's gone a lot. And when he's home, he's on 2nd shift I think. While I agree there's a happy medium to be found, it's going to involve him realizing that he's sucking up all the time and money resources available to their household. Which is basically where I am - DH realizes he's got the vast majority of the resources and is trying to find cheaper alternatives (in our case, it's a health issue w/ DH and he's working on it.)
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Nov 27, 2012 12:39:36 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice everyone.
I sat down and did a written budget last night. As I knew, we have enough money to cover our bills. It's tight because of the credit card debt, but doable. And if we buckle down use the debt snowball, I think we can knock out a lot of the credit cards fairly quickly. One huge help will be that next Friday DH gets his holiday pay, and it's usually a pretty big check, so we can at least get caught up on the last couple of things we're overdue on.
He called home last night. I told him when he gets home today we need to sit down and have a budget discussion. I'm hoping once he sees the numbers in black and white he'll get it.
I would never tell him he can't go hunting. I hate hunting. I hate venison. I hate that he's gone so much. But I have never told him he can't go.
Oh the irony. I teach a financial education class where I use Financial Peace as the teaching tool. My problem isn't a lack of knowledge. It's just reigning things in and getting them under control.
I feel like all I do is let things go. I don't want to bombard him with everything at once, and tonight I'm going to focus just on the money because that's the mission critical piece of this right now.
Also, I would never take the kids to the camp on his trips. It's a bunch of men who sit around and drink heavily and play poker. It would be an inappropriate place for the kids, and, quite frankly, miserable for me.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Nov 27, 2012 12:40:59 GMT -5
And, i am addressing it too. There are several approaches. I have already addressed that as well. I am saying there are multiple issues to address across the board. And, taking the "you can't hunt" approach simply is not going to work. Trust me. I live in hunting towns. It isn't a mere hobby it is the passion of many people who live here. But, again, i said she and her DH need to find ways to get on board together without taking an adversarial approach. so which of your hobbies/activities has your DH embraced?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 12:42:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice everyone. I sat down and did a written budget last night. As I knew, we have enough money to cover our bills. It's tight because of the credit card debt, but doable. And if we buckle down use the debt snowball, I think we can knock out a lot of the credit cards fairly quickly. One huge help will be that next Friday DH gets his holiday pay, and it's usually a pretty big check, so we can at least get caught up on the last couple of things we're overdue on. He called home last night. I told him when he gets home today we need to sit down and have a budget discussion. I'm hoping once he sees the numbers in black and white he'll get it. I would never tell him he can't go hunting. I hate hunting. I hate venison. I hate that he's gone so much. But I have never told him he can't go. Oh the irony. I teach a financial education class where I use Financial Peace as the teaching tool. My problem isn't a lack of knowledge. It's just reigning things in and getting them under control. I feel like all I do is let things go. I don't want to bombard him with everything at once, and tonight I'm going to focus just on the money because that's the mission critical piece of this right now. Also, I would never take the kids to the camp on his trips. It's a bunch of men who sit around and drink heavily and play poker. It would be an inappropriate place for the kids, and, quite frankly, miserable for me. It would be miserable for him, too. But make him be the bad guy and tell you you can't come. That will give you some marraige capital.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Nov 27, 2012 12:43:10 GMT -5
Best of luck on your money discussion tonight. I hope it turns out well.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 12:44:05 GMT -5
Ok, how about a simple: you created this fucking mess, you fix it! I don't know, been working for my wife so far. I got tired of being the one stressing over the bills, paying them on time, do we have enough, etc. I emailed her the file with all our accounts, user name, password , bills due date and amounts and said: knock yourself out. Been working awesomely so far I get to be the carefree one, not caring about anything and she gets to figure it out and see it from the other side.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Nov 27, 2012 12:45:22 GMT -5
That is pretty much it in a nutshell. I did recently decide that one Friday night a month I was going to get a babysitter and do something kid-free. I sold some maternity clothes to pay for my sitter a couple of weeks ago. I met my parents out. They paid for my dinner. I'm working on selling some more clothes so I can maybe have a free night this month. If I can't sell stuff, it's not going to happen. Pretty much I work, take care of the kids, rinse, repeat.
I'm just getting really overwhelmed. Work has been incredibly stressful this month. Then finding out our finances are out of whack. Add into it that DH has been gone hunting a lot. I'm just getting to a breaking point.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 27, 2012 12:45:43 GMT -5
Try writing down in order of importance what you want to addres. Most of what you are talking about is going to end up coming out in the finanicial discussion anyhoo because it's his hunting trips that are sucking up a large portion of money and time.
The trick is going to be making him have that epihany for himself. Doing the worksheet I got in my seminar made DH see in black and white that I am not "nagging" him about his spending. It really is sucking up the majority of our discretionary money and it isn't that I am not "trying hard enough" to find money for myself, it's that it is not there!
We were then able to discuss things in an adult fashion (something we have a hard time doing) and came up with a cash allowance for DH since he spends more and has a harder time controlling himself with the check card. He came up with is own ideas to keep himself from impulse shopping.
It's a work in progres, we've only been at it for ac ouple of weeks but it shows some promise. Doing the worksheet also helped us review where we might cut some fixed expenses too that didn't occur to me until I did a complete break down of our finances starting at our gross pay and working down.
I agree with you too that it is not lack of knowledge on my DH's part. He knows all this perfectly well and understands the logic of it. It is that he doesn't really care, it doesn't appear on his radar at all unless it is an issue. He's too laid back about money. I can't make him become more focused on it no matter how much I beat him over the head with it.
So I stay in control of our finances to make sure all our bills get paid and have discussions with DH as needed.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Nov 27, 2012 12:47:18 GMT -5
Have you guys done any counseling, and if not would you be interested in trying it?
It isn't the end all, be all but I still find it amazing how the therapist could listen to each of us and then re-phrase in a way that the other person could understand/relate to.
There are a lot of moving parts that you are struggling with, and I agree that bombarding him with everything is a bad idea, but at the same time you shouldn't have to deal with all of this alone trying to figure out 'when' you can tell him how you are feeling.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Nov 27, 2012 12:55:33 GMT -5
rae, I would be willing to do counseling. I think I'm going to see if we can work through some stuff ourselves before I suggest that to DH. I'll start with the money stuff and then maybe wait a bit and bring up some of the other issues. If that doesn't get us moving in the right direction, I will suggest counseling. I think if I brought it up now he would look at me like I was nuts. He doesn't think there's a problem.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 27, 2012 12:58:02 GMT -5
Because on his end there isn't one. Life is good for him. It takes awhile before it dawns on them that an unhappy spouse is their problem too.
Not saying your DH or mine are selfish assholes. DH really stepped up once I spoke up.
They are just completely oblivous and in my DH's case they live in teh moment. It doesn't ever occur to them that just because it all looks great on the surface that it doesn't mean it is. Especially if they keep getting to live life as the please.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 27, 2012 12:59:49 GMT -5
Because on his end there isn't one. Life is good for him. It takes awhile before it dawns on them that an unhappy spouse is their problem too. Yep.
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Clever Username
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Post by Clever Username on Nov 27, 2012 13:00:44 GMT -5
Where's clever? Has he popped in on this yet? Not yet, I just got here. Am I confusing two posts, I could have sworn I replied to this exact same post a week or two ago. I told someone else recently to let their spouse learn their lesson the hard way by allowing Verizon to get cut off. My take: Go temporarily BALLISTIC!!!! Flip the freaking heck out! Demonstratively blow out all of these emotions. This is probably best done in the physical presence of a trained counselor, but it's not required. Make one thing very clear: you screw up like this, it's going to get like Ke$hia in her. The Place is About To Blow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow! Then give is a little time to simmer. Calm down. State clearly. 1. Trust was broken, these things are incredibly important to you 2. He needs to heal that break in your trust. 3. Never get into a land war in Asia.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 13:01:22 GMT -5
Because on his end there isn't one. Life is good for him. It takes awhile before it dawns on them that an unhappy spouse is their problem too. Yep. Sooooo
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 27, 2012 13:05:10 GMT -5
you screw up like this, it's going to get like Ke$hia in her. The Place is About To Blow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow!::Wants to know how Clever is knowledgeable enough about Ke$shia to make this reference::
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Clever Username
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Post by Clever Username on Nov 27, 2012 13:05:36 GMT -5
Because on his end there isn't one. Life is good for him. It takes awhile before it dawns on them that an unhappy spouse is their problem too. Yep. I state is more succinctly. Happy wife / happy life.
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