NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Oct 31, 2012 23:03:58 GMT -5
We just had this very "interesting" discussion in one of my "mommies" group. The topic was sharing and it turns out some parents don't believe in forcing their kids to share. Turns out there is a whole parenting movement that is subscribing to Gentle Disciple Approach.... Since I, oh so love when I learn new things I decided to look it up and turn out that I think it's more of same psycho BS that I don't believe it. that reminds me of something that happened a long, long time ago. DS2 (now 30) was still in utero when we had a friend come over with her little girl. So I told DS1 that whatever toy he did not want to share had to be put away in his room. So within five minutes there wasn't a toy to be found anywhere except in his room. I did "redirect" and told him to put all but one of them back. DS was not pleased ;D but did as he was told. So he received his first life lesson in prioritizing at 3.5yrs of age. He was a very easy child, so the obeying part was no problem. His brother on the other hand...
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Oct 31, 2012 23:07:24 GMT -5
Oh and as far as the disciplining some else's child goes: my house, my rules. And I am not know for my patience so I don't wait all that long before I enforce those rules either.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Oct 31, 2012 23:36:55 GMT -5
I find as I get older (and my kids get older) that it's quite hard to be friends with someone who has drastically different parenting philosophies than I do. I'm not talking atheist vs Christian, but respect vs disrespect. It's just too hard to enjoy my time with a friend when their kid is misbehaving so much. I also don't particularly want that behavior rubbing off on my kids. So, I tend to let those friendships die down.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2012 0:34:00 GMT -5
Friends' kids I do not discipline unless it directly affects me or my kids and then usually I will say something to the parents first and give them a chance to stop the behavior. If not, game on. If they don't like it...ohwell.
My nieces I will discipline because their parents are pathetic druggie asshats. Guess what even though I am known as the strict Auntie...my nieces all respect me and look up to me. Own of my nieces always says she wants to be just like me when she grows up.
I have been noticing more and more bratty kids in stores. I don't know if I am just getting old or if parents really just suck now. I am a balance between old style parenting and new. I am fairly strict, but I don't usually spank. Some of the kids I have been seeing lately I really think need their asses whooped!
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Nov 1, 2012 7:19:20 GMT -5
I'll discipline my niece and my cousin's (she's like a sister to me) kids, but I've been told by both my sister and cousin to feel free to do so, and both mean it. All of the kids are pretty good kids, so when they do get corrected, it's generally just matter of reminding them they need to not do whatever action they are doing and redirect.
I do have some friends whose kids I just try to avoid. And also not make snarky comments when those same friends make snide comments on other unruly kids...
My DS is still an infant, so no discipline issues yet, but I like to think that I'll be open-minded enough to not take offense when someone else disciplines him. Regardless, I expect and hope that our extended family knows they can correct and redirect his behavior as needed.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 1, 2012 7:25:48 GMT -5
It isn't easy. As a teacher, and maybe other teachers will agree, I have seen such a breakdown in bringing up. It used to be even the ghetto kids were made to mind by their parents and that education was a way out of the ghetto. That went the way of the stigma of unwed motherhood, I think. It's great to get a 5 year old who has never heard the word "no" and can't believe they have to do something whether they want to or not. We used to joke-kind of-if these parents had to keep them home until the kids were civilized, it'd happen real fast. But I actually had parents telling me little Susie doesn't like to sweat in PE so could she please sit out? How sad is that? I used to actually laugh in their faces and ask them if they were kidding, right? Even though I knew they weren't.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 1, 2012 7:27:17 GMT -5
There's a store in tarpon springs, Florida that does not allow children in it, period. I'm sure they had something of value either destroyed or were sued as well. I always wondered if that was actually legal?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 1, 2012 7:38:41 GMT -5
I guess it is since some coffee shops and some restaurants won't allow kids now.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 1, 2012 7:50:03 GMT -5
it's just bad parenting, not a bad child. But somewhere along the line, people started thinking their kids would love an extended romp through Nordstroms, even during nap time. Or that their kids would enjoy being up until midnight New Years Eve in Key West, Florida. Even though they were either asleep on dads shoulder or crying like crazy. Nothing was going to stop the parents fun. Did my generation raise lousy parents?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2012 7:57:39 GMT -5
It it is truly an issue and bothersome to you , then meet your friends at their house intstead or somewhere else.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 1, 2012 8:00:51 GMT -5
Do they drag the kid everywhere they go? Probably can't get a babysitter with such a hellion. Meet her for lunch. Her husband can watch the kid.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2012 8:03:35 GMT -5
And then you wonder why this world is so f&j@ed up? When did we become this over sensitive society that we get pussed if someone disciplines our child. Like someone says it does take a village to raise a child. It is really bad when we would let just kids do the wrong things because we don't want to upset the parent. And I wonder are we all in our 30's or over screwed up? Because back then there werent so many studies that would tell you how to raise kids so Im thinking our parents did a crappy job. I don't think the problem is how we were raised. Our parents didn't have the steady stream of parenting advice that is permeating society these days, so they raised their kids as THEY saw fit. I think the overload of information is making parents wishy-washy! We worry too much about the stupidest details!! Back then it was make sure your kids eat their veggies. These days they need to be organic, locally grown or else you're a failure. The only thing these books, magazines and blogs do is make someone believe that there's some kind of parenting ideal to be reached and as everyone knows, parenting is an imperfect process.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2012 8:03:36 GMT -5
Oh and as far as the disciplining some else's child goes: my house, my rules. And I am not know for my patience so I don't wait all that long before I enforce those rules either. Well, i would be happy to cross you off my list of visitors. No problem.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Nov 1, 2012 8:05:09 GMT -5
That's what baffles me about my friends' approach. Neither of them is remotely scared of using the word no - Bobby hears that a LOT. But while they will tell him no, he can't have a piece of candy, or no, he can't go watch Sponge Bob, they just stand by when he is causing actual destruction (or saying really bratty things I would NEVER have gotten away with). I assume it's just exhaustion. That kid wears me out after an hour, I really can't imagine parenting him 24/7. So I try to cut him (and them) some slack... but I am not always a very patient person if you are that good of friends with the parents, I think you have permission to whip the kid's ass. If you aren't that good of friends, drop the parents...what are they bringing to your life other than a bratty kid who's throwing rocks at your car??
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2012 8:06:01 GMT -5
I would be mortified if my kids were so undisciplined that they were upsetting others. Some people are "mortified" if a child even lets out a little squeak. I have seen far,far more obnoxious, big mouth lout grown ups than i have ever have unruly kids.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Nov 1, 2012 8:08:03 GMT -5
And then you wonder why this world is so f&j@ed up? When did we become this over sensitive society that we get pussed if someone disciplines our child. Like someone says it does take a village to raise a child. It is really bad when we would let just kids do the wrong things because we don't want to upset the parent. And I wonder are we all in our 30's or over screwed up? Because back then there werent so many studies that would tell you how to raise kids so Im thinking our parents did a crappy job. I don't think the problem is how we were raised. Our parents didn't have the steady stream of parenting advice that is permeating society these days, so they raised their kids as THEY saw fit. I think the overload of information is making parents wishy-washy! We worry too much about the stupidest details!! Back then it was make sure your kids eat their veggies. These days they need to be organic, locally grown or else you're a failure. The only thing these books, magazines and blogs do is make someone believe that there's some kind of parenting ideal to be reached and as everyone knows, parenting is an imperfect process. I agree -- parenting isn't "that hard" meaning it's not like rocket science where you have to be precise in every thing you do. JFC, people were raising kids for thousands of years, but all of a sudden in the past 25-50 years, we find out that all of our parents and grandparents were wrong! EEK!!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 1, 2012 8:09:54 GMT -5
I haven't. I have also seen more poorly behaved kids on airplanes that's I have drunken loud stinky adults. I raised my kids without abusing them and they behaved in public and mostly in private or else. They knew that shaming me in public would result in serious retribution and they simply didn't do it. Doxie saying she can't control her youngest is simply an excuse. She doesn't want to teach him to behave so he doesn't. She either got lucky with the first or made an effort. As parents, it's our job to civilize our children and make them people that others want to be around.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Nov 1, 2012 8:14:17 GMT -5
First off, I have 3 grown children, now 18-21. I can't ever remember anyone else having to discipline my kids. In fact, it was more like picking my kids up after sleepovers and other parents commenting on how well behaved my kids were.
If someone's kids is at my house and doing damage, they will be told to STOP IMMEDIATELY. My house, my rules.
A 7 year old child who ignores his parents is a sign of bad parenting. The absolute worst thing I see is kids who absolutely ignore the parents and do what they want. My husband has a retail store, he has parents come in with their kids, the parents say to the kids "Stop doing that" and the kids just ignore them, because obviuosly there is no consequences to ignoring the parents. I remember one lady who was telling her kids "No" every 15 seconds and they just kept doing whatever they were doing. Telling them NO is not working!
Maybe we were overly strict parents. But then again I have 3 (mostly) well behaved, well adjusted young adults.
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milee
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Post by milee on Nov 1, 2012 8:14:42 GMT -5
Doxie saying she can't control her youngest is simply an excuse. She doesn't want to teach him to behave so he doesn't. She either got lucky with the first or made an effort. As parents, it's our job to civilize our children and make them people that others want to be around. As a teacher and mother to two, surely you realize that different children have inherently different personalities and levels of activity. Doesn't mean she got lucky with the first or made any different effort, could just mean the first was more tractable than the second. It's definitely our job as parents to civilize our children. The tough part is that each child is different and some parents struggle with finding the right method for their child. It would be fantastic if there were a single most effective method, but there's not. But clearly it is the parents' job to keep working at it and trying different things until they determine which method works with each of their children. And unfortunately, sometimes while that process is going on, the parents may need to remove themselves or their family from certain social and business situations until they have the issues under control.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 1, 2012 8:15:27 GMT -5
No kidding, even if the child is truly ADD or ADHD, there are meds that help control that behavior. Throwing rocks is not a symptom of that behavior btw. It's an excuse for bad parenting, to say their child has medical issues and does a disservice to those parents who have those kids and bust ass to help them acclimate to society and its expectations.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 1, 2012 8:17:08 GMT -5
Those that raise their children correctly end up with good citizens. Ever read LORD of the FLIES? It's our job as parents to work hard and raise good people. Letting them do whatever they want is not a good plan.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2012 8:19:50 GMT -5
It it is truly an issue and bothersome to you , then meet your friends at their house intstead or somewhere else. Shooby...I'm getting the feeling that you're making excuses for parents who have poorly behaved kids? Tell me I'm wrong, please. Well, you are wrong. There are simply some people for whom a child even making a sound or breathing is somehow bothersome to them. Small children are known to be a bit silly and might sing or dance for no reason other than their own little happiness of the moment. THere are indeed people who just truly do not like children. ANd, no i don't let my kids run through someone's house or damage anything, but my kids have the right to talk to me as well. Some people just hate kids.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 1, 2012 8:23:11 GMT -5
Doxie saying she can't control her youngest is simply an excuse. She doesn't want to teach him to behave so he doesn't. She either got lucky with the first or made an effort. As parents, it's our job to civilize our children and make them people that others want to be around. As a teacher and mother to two, surely you realize that different children have inherently different personalities and levels of activity. Doesn't mean she got lucky with the first or made any different effort, could just mean the first was more tractable than the second. It's definitely our job as parents to civilize our children. The tough part is that each child is different and some parents struggle with finding the right method for their child. It would be fantastic if there were a single most effective method, but there's not. But clearly it is the parents' job to keep working at it and trying different things until they determine which method works with each of their children. And unfortunately, sometimes while that process is going on, the parents may need to remove themselves or their family from certain social and business situations until they have the issues under control. I have one that giving the hairy eyeball to will immediately stop the unwanted behavior. The other one requires, um, "a bit more effort."
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 1, 2012 8:24:07 GMT -5
There's that. There are some posters kids I'd love to meet and others, not so much.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Nov 1, 2012 8:32:53 GMT -5
It depends on the situation. My DH use to mentor this kid at church and when he came over to our house he had to follow our rules. He wouldn't/couldn't do it. He has ADHD and constantly used that as an excuse why he left stuff all over the house when we had a baby that was putting everything on the floor in his mouth. We explained it was a problem and that it was disrespectful and that frankly in 5 years no one is going to care that you have ADHD when you have a job to do (the kid was like 13 at the time). We had a falling out with the family over that because they believed in making excuses for his ADHD and not actually trying to help become a functioning adult.
When my DS plays with the neighbor's kids I'll speak up about the neighbor's kids. Particularly when their DD tried to push my DS off the top of their slide (thankfully their oldest DD was their to catch my son because I couldn't get their in time). They'll say stuff if DS is doing something wrong too. I mentioned something to them when their DS was getting into our flower beds and both me and his mom told him no at the same time. I asked her if that was a problem and she said nope. When we were at their Halloween Party, their youngest DD was putting a popped balloon in her mouth and no one was around to stop it, so I took it from her. I'll also discipline my nieces and nephew if need be.
I also expect anyone watching my son to 1. discipline him and 2. make him help. He knows he has to clean up after himself and I don't want him getting use to not having to do it. He is often times the only child in our church nursery and the nursery attendant would just clean up after him and DH and I said, no, he needs to at least help put up the toys.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Nov 1, 2012 8:33:06 GMT -5
OK, but that is not really what this thread is about, unless you're implying I hate kids. (I don't). Most of my friends have kids, and most of the kids are very well-behaved - which makes Bobby's antics stand out all the more.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Nov 1, 2012 8:37:20 GMT -5
The thing that drives me nuts about this kid is that he talks back... to everything! Bobby, please don't throw rocks at that car, it makes dents. - No it doesn't! Yes it does, please stop. - No it doesn't! See? *throws rock* After I've asked him to stop once or twice and he says no, I'm at a loss what to do next I guess my approach to this type of situation would be a bit different in that I don't believe an adult should have to explain their reasons when they tell a child to do or not to do something. this: Bobby, please don't throw rocks at that car, it makes dents. - No it doesn't! Yes it does, please stop. - No it doesn't! See? *throws rock* would most likely have been this: - Bobby, please stop throwing rocks at that car. - Why? - I said so, that's why. I learned at a very early age that its best not to try to reason with a child because you end up in a never ending argument that leaves you frustrated. I see it all the time with my BF and his kids and I tell him he doesn't need to explain things to them when he's made a decision but he does it anyway and ends up upset everytime. When I deal with them, I make declarative statements and rarely get any lip. BUT, I also make a point to ask them to do things I want them to do and always tell them thank you when they do them without giving me a hard time. Now with a kid like you've described, he would probably try to argue but you have to stand your ground with simple statements and then explain later when they are more willing to listen. Plus, it helps to back your words up with actions and show them the behaviors you expect from them. I'm not an expert, but this has worked for me with kids in and out of my family.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Nov 1, 2012 8:42:43 GMT -5
OK, but that is not really what this thread is about, unless you're implying I hate kids. (I don't). Most of my friends have kids, and most of the kids are very well-behaved - which makes Bobby's antics stand out all the more. No kidding Mid. There is normal childhood behavior and their is behavior that requires discipline. I have no problems with my neighbor's 11 year old wanting to be a part of my conversations with her mom instead of playing with the 2, 3, and 4 year old kids. I don't have a problem with the screaming in kid in Walmart because on occaison it has been my child and despite his behavior we still have chores to do. I do have a problem with dangerous and destructive behavior. With kids that think no rules apply to them. A kid at church purposefully knocked over a chair and my DH made him pick it up. Kids aren't always going to behave, but when it gets to the point that their are purposefully destroying something that is a line. Oh and back to your original question, if the parents are there I would ask them if they are going to pay for the dents in the car.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 1, 2012 8:49:20 GMT -5
The thing that drives me nuts about this kid is that he talks back... to everything! Bobby, please don't throw rocks at that car, it makes dents. - No it doesn't! Yes it does, please stop. - No it doesn't! See? *throws rock* After I've asked him to stop once or twice and he says no, I'm at a loss what to do next I guess my approach to this type of situation would be a bit different in that I don't believe an adult should have to explain their reasons when they tell a child to do or not to do something. this: Bobby, please don't throw rocks at that car, it makes dents. - No it doesn't! Yes it does, please stop. - No it doesn't! See? *throws rock* would most likely have been this: - Bobby, please stop throwing rocks at that car. - Why? - I said so, that's why. I learned at a very early age that its best not to try to reason with a child because you end up in a never ending argument that leaves you frustrated. I see it all the time with my BF and his kids and I tell him he doesn't need to explain things to them when he's made a decision but he does it anyway and ends up upset everytime. When I deal with them, I make declarative statements and rarely get any lip. BUT, I also make a point to ask them to do things I want them to do and always tell them thank you when they do them without giving me a hard time. Now with a kid like you've described, he would probably try to argue but you have to stand your ground with simple statements and then explain later when they are more willing to listen. Plus, it helps to back your words up with actions and show them the behaviors you expect from them. I'm not an expert, but this has worked for me with kids in and out of my family. We do explain things once. Then it's natural consequences after that. I grew up in a "I said so" household. I figured my job on this earth was to please my parents as a child. I personally don't want my kids to be making all their decisions in life to make me happy. My kids may also want to make decisions that are still good ones, but that I won't agree with. It's not fair to lead them to believe that their good decisions are bad because it's not following what I said.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Nov 1, 2012 8:51:21 GMT -5
I think I would avoid doing things with the parents when the kid is around. When asked why I avoided them, I would tell them. I have an issue with someone letting their kid run amock. I also find that the older I get, the less I can stand little kids.
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