Tonight's debate

[weltschmerz]

I see that the arrogant little warmonger, Romney, has switched from saying "American energy independence" to "North American energy independence". That little prick does NOT speak for Canada, and we don't like it. It sounds like he doesn't want to be POTUS....he wants to be King of the World.

[Deleted]

Romney won in China?

He says china is scared of owning our debt..

And accuses them of currency manipulation that he will stop...

Hmmm, how does china manipulate currency again?


As far as foreign policy not being as big a thing... That's cause we aren't in as bad a place as last time...

[TonyTiger]

Oct 23, 2012 10:32:51 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I see that the arrogant little warmonger, Romney, has switched from saying "American energy independence" to "North American energy independence". That little prick does NOT speak for Canada, and we don't like it. It sounds like he doesn't want to be POTUS....he wants to be King of the World.

From an old 1960s war movie called "The Devil's Brigade"...

A couple of my favorite Canadian moments...

The Canadians arrive...



The Canadian Sergeant puts the Yank bully in his place...



Mebbe you guys should write to Mittens and tell him to watch the flick before he goes mouthin'-off about steering all of North America...

Then again, we're all supposed to be Yankee Imperialist Running Dogs down here, right? ;D

[deziloooooo]

Regarding the comment about the bayonet and horse...not with standing Paul's feeling on the subject ..even with the picture of the trooper on the pony in the mountains of some where...

The fact is , the weapons of today are getting out there on what they do and also most importantly what they cost...

Came across a article ..dated late 2011..where Japan has decided to purchase the American developed and built F-35 as their replacement aircraft for their very old fleet of American built jet fighters...even though it is the most expensive of the three that were being considered..another older US model though updated and the Typhoon from the UK and Europe...and they will get the first four ..that's correct , FOUR...this year, 2012...complete contract calls for about 54 planes..

Surprising you might think..only 54 aircraft to replace their present fleet of 100's..and to confront...possible...and lets face facts of who it just might be some time in the future..China, is my guess..though possible the North Koreans sometime..but the reason complete contract will be 54..? Each plane costs $133 million dollars...naturally spare parts and maintenance add more but each and every aircraft..$133 million.....thus the reason the POTUS was trying to get across to the opposition...the use of bayonets and horses, cavalry ..sorry Paul...just not done or used anymore...even the bayonet for the most part, and if ever used in eanest..those poor bastards.....and a fleet of the size of 1916 not needed anymore..Battleships as majestic as they are..no longer fit into the scheme of things ...

He , Obama, also pointed out some other interesting things for those who might have missed them..this POTUS is thinking of the future of the country..where we may be..something that with our change of leadership every eight at the most and at times four years , some might feel is a disadvantage , when you consider competing against five year, even 210 year plans of our main competitors..dealing with complete change of government as the Chinese are doing this year, done in increments of decades....thus having continuity to solve their problems..We are at the whim of who ever is in power..long term thinking is rarly considered as practical..though so many do criticize why we don't have a national energy program for example...yet with a change of every four or eight years with the whims of who ever is in power..how can you sustaine that is beyond me..

Obama, recognizing the change in the fortunes of the world..transitioning to the Pacific..from the middle East..Europe too..[Does not mean we leave completely by the way the old]..but the emphasis will be the East..and one of the reason we can do this isn't mentioned..his direction toward alternative energy sources..wind, solar, gas..better use of coal..less so of oil...

The man is thinking ahead..and also committing to the future..and that does not benefit him/we in the immediate..but to me is Presedential in thinking..one of many reasons he has my support..

I want my POTUS to think of the future..few of them do that..I don't believe Romney will..in his life time he has concentrated on the immediate..It has made him very wealthy , agree..cudos for him there..how does one argue against being comfortable...very, very comfortable..but not what I want from my POTUS.

Long term growth of power by more and better education, especially the disciplines of the sciences..math predominate..He feels the Federal needs to jump start this agenda....thus more teachers of those subjects..Do I feel that this type of direction should be done by the Federal?? Yep...final implimentation will be the locals but initially one of the things the Federal can do ..jump start what is needed.

Actually a lot of his ideas seem to me to come from Zakaria...tempered for the practical....there are political considerations that Zakaria while saying he considers them, in the practical sense...not really politically practicle..We are always governed by political reality..

Things he , Obama, suggested are necessary, important IMHO.....problem is they don't bear fruit for a long time , never immediately...and we Americans are impatient..like to get our rewards immediately..that is a fact and that is not always good..one of the reasons possible the Chinese who seem to have the patience needed ..also possible because they have such a authoritative way of ruling..not any worry about opposition sniping and saying that big word.."NO " that we have..

Just a few reasons I beleive he won the debate..more important , deserves another four years..has the experience and will improve on the last four..we need continuity and Obama will give us this..a perfect man in his decisions..of course not..but I do give credence to experience..those who have been there and Obama has been there...

Experience is so important..if one has survived hostile fire , it has been proven those who have will survive so much better then the raw rookies who enter the battlefield the first time...even though they may be fresher and stronger and less worn down..experience and having been there trumps the other..and that is a fact..not just a "IMHO "...

That some , electorate, posters here too, don't consider those things I mentioned above in their considerations of who they want as POTUS in their consideration of ..while understandable.."sound bytes..Fox, yes MSNBC too..so much easier, less taxing on the mind..I just felt wanted to post a few ideas not normally discussed here on these boards..needed to get away from the same blather of the same few for just a moment..figure most will just scroll bye quickly..LOL ;D

[cme1201]

Hmmm, how does china manipulate currency again?

Until June 2010, the Chinese government dictated the value of the yuan against the U.S. dollar, a strategy known as “pegging.” China claim to have abandoned the pegging system, but the country still manages the value of the yuan within a narrow range. According to many estimates, Chinese government intervention keeps the yuan approximately 20 percent below its free market value against the dollar.

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/10/china_currency_manipulation_how_does_it_harm_the_u_s_and_what_can_we_do.html

[Deleted]

Hmmm, how does china manipulate currency again?

By undervaluing it to make it's exports cheaper for the U.S. to buy, which increases pressure on U.S. manufacturers to move jobs or otherwise drive down wages.

The U.S. has been pressuring China to bring it's currency higher against the dollar, with some success.

[Gardening Grandma]

Oct 23, 2012 10:32:51 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I see that the arrogant little warmonger, Romney, has switched from saying "American energy independence" to "North American energy independence". That little prick does NOT speak for Canada, and we don't like it. It sounds like he doesn't want to be POTUS....he wants to be King of the World.

Good catch, Welts.

OTOH, maybe he's just discoverd that there is a whole nuther country north of the US. It's not like he has offshore accounts there.

[happyhoix]

Oct 23, 2012 10:18:05 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

America's foreign policy.

1. Give money to countries that like or loathes.
2. Give food aid to countries that like us or loath us.
3. Give money and food aid to the UN which funnels that money to countries that like us or loath us.
4. Borrow money from country A to pass to country B so that country B can be more like country A.

What is going to change?

You forgot 5. Invade countries that loath us to create freedom loving societies that love us, spent a wad of money, wait around until they really, really loath us, then leave.

[Deleted]

Romney just needed to look somewhat competent and I think he achieved that. He's got the momentum so he just needed to go out there and coast. Sure, he missed some opportunities but it won't really matter at this point.

Momentum is on Mitt's side. They are calling this election pretty close, but I think it broke wide open after that first debate.

Even if you have faith in Obama, he's pissed in the drinking water at this point. Any hope of a working relationship with congress is gone.

[weltschmerz]

Why the HELL does Romney want to expand an already bloated military by two Trillion dollars? It's already the biggest military in the world, bigger than the next ten countries combined.
All this war talk is making me very nervous. Maybe he really is trying to encourage an Armageddon, and the second coming of Jesus Christ, as per the Mormon predictions.

[Opti]

"Even if you have faith in Obama, he's pissed in the drinking water at this point. Any hope of a working relationship with congress is gone. "

I might be wrong about this but I would think individual congress critters would be anxious trying to deal with a guy who always changes his mind. If Romney goes and stays to the middle once elected that will be one thing, but if one day he's for X and the next day he's against it I don't see how that is great for a working relationship either. I have worked with someone like that. Its really annoying after choosing to agree on something and then a couple days later have them be totally opposite of where they were.

[zipity]

Says the guy on an internet message board at 11:00 at night.

Waiting on Jon Stewart to come on. I won't miss him tonight doing the debate recap. Fox and friends give him such great material.

[Deleted]

Oct 23, 2012 10:32:51 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I see that the arrogant little warmonger, Romney, has switched from saying "American energy independence" to "North American energy independence". That little prick does NOT speak for Canada, and we don't like it. It sounds like he doesn't want to be POTUS....he wants to be King of the World.

And, neither do you speak for America or for whom Americans should elect to lead their country.

[chiver78]

Oct 23, 2012 12:15:36 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Oct 23, 2012 10:32:51 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I see that the arrogant little warmonger, Romney, has switched from saying "American energy independence" to "North American energy independence". That little prick does NOT speak for Canada, and we don't like it. It sounds like he doesn't want to be POTUS....he wants to be King of the World.

And, neither do you speak for America or for whom Americans should elect to lead their country.

where is weltz doing that? she's offering her opinions, same as you.

[Deleted]

BTW, exactly what is Obama's plan for a second term? I haven't heard him say anything except more of the same.

[Deleted]

Oct 23, 2012 8:38:25 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

Oct 23, 2012 7:57:39 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Yes, i thought Obama came across as the petulant child again.

A minute before you said the debate was a draw and people would choose the one they favored most. Don't let Paul suck you in, shooby.

That isn't at all inconsistent. Those who like Obama like his Petulant child act because he has been doing it for 4 yrs.

[Virgil Showlion]

Oct 23, 2012 10:11:12 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

You and GG could give Karl Rove a real run for his money. ;D

You're lumping me in with PBP?

If any situation in US politics crops up, I can count on Paul to see it through the red-tinted glass, and you to see it through the blue-tinted glass.

Your loathing of the Republican party is as palpable as his loathing of the Democratic party, and contrasting your views of the very same event makes for a fascinating psychological survey.

[mmhmm]

People, including politicians, really need to stop referring to the United States as "America" (or "North America"). America is a biiiiig place, encompassing Canada, and Central and South America. We're only one part of the whole.

[Virgil Showlion]

Oct 23, 2012 12:19:13 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

People, including politicians, really need to stop referring to the United States as "America". America is a biiiiig place, encompassing Canada, and Central and South America. We're only one part of the whole.

I once fought a long debate arguing that very same thing, and lost.

"America" has always referred to the United States of America since the 19th century.

"America" as referring to the Americas is considered an archaic definition, even though it's the etymological origin of the term "North America".

[zipity]

What is going to change?

Under Romney we could go back to the neocon days of attacking country C because we are threatened by country D.

The Canadian Sergeant puts the Yank bully in his place...

As I recall (and I saw the entire movie last week) the Canadians were the cream of the Canadian crop where the American group was comprised of every misfit low life their commanders could scrape up to send to this 'elite' experiment. So cutting a bit of slack should be in order here.

Canadian's had better be nice to us Americans after all the United States IS Canada's only route to the sea.

[mmhmm]

Heh. If you want to buy into a contrived excuse for misusing language, it's okay by me, Virgil. I don't choose to do so. Just because some US citizens are arrogant enough to think we comprise all of America and, therefore, should be called America doesn't move me in the slightest. As long as South America and Central America exist, and as long as North America consists of Canada and the United States, that's the way I'll see them. To me, its a matter of simple common sense and avoiding confusion. Romney saying "North American energy dependence" was Romney misusing the term. If he can't be plain, he could get himself in a whole mess of trouble (and us along with him) by shooting off his mouth worldwide. People need to learn, even if it means "unlearning" some error that's been perpetrated since the 19th century.

[deziloooooo]

Oct 23, 2012 12:15:36 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Oct 23, 2012 10:32:51 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I see that the arrogant little warmonger, Romney, has switched from saying "American energy independence" to "North American energy independence". That little prick does NOT speak for Canada, and we don't like it. It sounds like he doesn't want to be POTUS....he wants to be King of the World.

And, neither do you speak for America or for whom Americans should elect to lead their country.

Actually Shooby neither do you have the right to say who and who not has the right to post here, and how they should post..their views....and for most of us , we welcome the views of all, including those we might disagree with as well as supporters and the reality is , by being who we are as a country..we are one of the few who influence every one on the planet in some way or the other..especially those who are our neighbors ..whether the South or the North..so their views are important , as important as say yours are..especially when you think about it..one who has been such a great contributor to our little frum as Mr. Weltz...for a very , very long time.IMHO of course.

[Deleted]

Oct 23, 2012 10:32:51 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I see that the arrogant little warmonger, Romney, has switched from saying "American energy independence" to "North American energy independence". That little prick does NOT speak for Canada, and we don't like it. It sounds like he doesn't want to be POTUS....he wants to be King of the World.

Maybe Willard is planning on inviting Canada to join the Union. Article XI of the Articles of Confederation, would have made it quite easy for Canada, or the colony it then was, to become a state

Article XI. Canada acceding to this confederation, and adjoining in the measures of the united States, shall be admitted into, and entitled to all the advantages of this union; but no other colony shall be admitted into the same, unless such admission be agreed to by nine States.

And The Constitution, Article 4 section 3, still keeps the door open. So you end up sharing some of that oil. ;D

Besides, Willard’s great-grandmother was born in Canada and his father was born in Mexico, so that makes him a true spawn of North American.

WASHINGTON—If you peel Mitt Romney, layer by elusive layer, the family lore leads to places you might least expect.

All the way to 19th-century Upper Canada, where Romney’s great-grandmother Hannah Hood Hill was born in July 1842.

From the outskirts of Toronto — home was little-known Tosorontio, north of the Caledon Hills, a bit northwest of present-day Tottenham — Hannah went on to be the Romney family matriarch.

A woman of rare beauty, steely determination and great endurance, it was said. Among her epic journeys, Hannah famously guided her children by covered wagon from Utah to exile in Mexico — an Ontario-born mother alone with the kids, pushing through blizzards, hub-deep mud and an Apache gauntlet laid down by Geronimo himself.

www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1120129--mitt-romney-has-canadian-roots

[cme1201]

What is going to change?

Under Romney we could go back to the neocon days of attacking country C because we are threatened by country D.

Which isn't foreign policy but Military policy.

[Deleted]

Oct 23, 2012 12:30:43 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Oct 23, 2012 12:15:36 GMT -5 @shooby said:

And, neither do you speak for America or for whom Americans should elect to lead their country.

Actually Shooby neither do you have the right to say who and who not has the right to post here, and how they should post..their views....and for most of us , we welcome the views of all, including those we might disagree with as well as supporters and the reality is , by being who we are as a country..we are one of the few who influence every one on the planet in some way or the other..especially those who are our neighbors ..whether the South or the North..so their views are important , as important as say yours are..especially when you think about it..one who has been such a great contributor to our little frum as Mr. Weltz...for a very , very long time.IMHO of course.

And, actually deziloo neither did i say who does or doesn't "have the right to post here". If Romney does not speak for North America aka Canada, then neither do Canadians speak for American voters. Clear?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

The Left is despondent over debate:

Through the red colored lenses:

At The New Republic: Romney Plays Reagan-- And Does Well Enough

www.tnr.com/blog/plank/109015/mondays-debate-loser-substance

From F. Chuck Todd, MSNBC: Obama Lost Opportunity to Disqualify Obama; Must Focus Now On Re-Qualifying Himself

anebbandflow.blogspot.com/2012/10/chuck-todd-too-late-for-obama-to.html

From The Nation: How Obama Won The Debate, but Lost

www.thenation.com/blog/170757/obama-romney-how-obama-won-debate-lost

From The Atlantic: Obama Wins The Night, Romney Wins The Series

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/10/obama-wins-the-night-romney-wins-the-series/263973/

It's over. Just accept it. I don't want my liberal friends here to crack up, so if you would-- PLEASE, just start mentally preparing yourself. Maybe practice saying, "President Romney" once a day for the next two weeks.

[Deleted]

Romney showed that his above the fray. That he has discipline. It would have been very easy to roll in the gutter with Obama but he choose not to. Voters are going to see that and respond.

[chiver78]

Oct 23, 2012 12:34:10 GMT -5 @shooby said:

And, actually deziloo neither did i say who does or doesn't "have the right to post here". If Romney does not speak for North America aka Canada, then neither do Canadians speak for American voters. Clear?

and as you've not pointed out where weltz was "speaking for American voters", I'll ask you to get back to the topic and not the posters.

-chiver mod

[TonyTiger]

Oct 23, 2012 12:23:45 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Oct 23, 2012 12:19:13 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

People, including politicians, really need to stop referring to the United States as "America". America is a biiiiig place, encompassing Canada, and Central and South America. We're only one part of the whole.

I once fought a long debate arguing that very same thing, and lost.

"America" has always referred to the United States of America since the 19th century.

"America" as referring to the Americas is considered an archaic definition, even though it's the etymological origin of the term "North America".

In the common parlance, worldwide, and here in the States...

America refers to the United States of America...

Canada refers to Canada...

Mexico refers to Mexico...

And on and on and on...

It's a fait accompli and dates back at least 100 years, probably more...

Close enough...

Let's not quibble...

We do, indeed, live in "The Americas"...

We do, indeed, live on the North American continent...

But with respect to political organization...

The common parlance - and the common wisdom - recognizes "America" as a synonym for the United States of America...

And no amount of tree-hugging Noun Policing is going to make even the teeniest, tiniest dent in that common usage...

Even King Canute would set aside his broom for that one... ;D

Case closed...

Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away...

"Close enough for government work"...

[mmhmm]

Sorry. I try diligently not to use America to refer only to the United States, but that's me. North America, on the other hand, DOES NOT refer only to the United States.