djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 17, 2012 0:04:11 GMT -5
Wow! They couldn't bring a suit before? That sucks! Way to go Mr. President! ![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/smileys/1-1.gif) don't suppose you know anything about Ledbetter -v- Goodyear, do you?
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Oct 17, 2012 0:16:20 GMT -5
![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/idunno.gif) Apparently it does not address what it says it does. The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009...but if they solved this issue, then they could not count on future support, I guess. ![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/smileys/1-1.gif)
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Oct 17, 2012 0:18:30 GMT -5
I FEEL your pain! ![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/smileys/1-1.gif)
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Oct 17, 2012 0:21:50 GMT -5
The dems can try to lie it away or wish it away; it ain't gonna go away. and of course the claim that requested had been made for extra security, that's not a bit exaggerated is it? The ignored requests were for 1-2 additional security agents in keeping with a memo from last year that said the embassy should have had 5 security agents not Marine detachments which never arrived. Lying/misleading cuts both ways. Really? That is all you have to say with regard to Obama and his administration lying to the American people in an attempt to cover up this incident prior to the election? Did you watch the Congressional hearings last week? Did you hear the testimony of the gentleman that had been on security detail in Libya prior to the attack? It has been reported that Candy Crowley has already walked back what she interjected during the debate. She was way out of line. Moderators should moderate, not participate. It is just one more example of the liberal media bias in favor of Obama. If a Republican (i.e. Bush) had been caught in such a blatant lie, the media would have been all over it like white on rice and they would have crucified him; but because it is Obama, the liberal media has bent over backwards to give him a pass.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Oct 17, 2012 0:23:41 GMT -5
Well Candy did reach my anticipation level. It was Mitt versus Obama and Candy tonight.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Oct 17, 2012 0:25:30 GMT -5
Not a great debate set up tonight. Town Hall debates are hard to pull off.
I also think Mitt should have taken Obama's finger and break it in three places. Of course, Secret Service might have intervened.........
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Post by Value Buy on Oct 17, 2012 0:29:10 GMT -5
Obama's response on gasoline being $1.85 a gallon when he took office was weak. He said we were in a recession and that was why they were low, and now we are not, so they went up. Why have we seen gas basically at $4 for three years with the economy still in the toilet? It is not because the economy is in overdrive.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 17, 2012 0:44:20 GMT -5
Not a great debate set up tonight. Town Hall debates are hard to pull off. I also think Mitt should have taken Obama's finger and break it in three places. Of course, Secret Service might have intervened......... George Will called it the greatest debate in debate history. i kid you not.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 17, 2012 0:45:19 GMT -5
Obama's response on gasoline being $1.85 a gallon when he took office was weak. He said we were in a recession and that was why they were low, and now we are not, so they went up. Why have we seen gas basically at $4 for three years with the economy still in the toilet? It is not because the economy is in overdrive. it was a lame answer (unless he was talking about the global economy)- but so is the suggestion that the president has anything to do with gas prices. gonna stand with Mitt on that one?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 17, 2012 0:47:35 GMT -5
The dems can try to lie it away or wish it away; it ain't gonna go away. and of course the claim that requested had been made for extra security, that's not a bit exaggerated is it? The ignored requests were for 1-2 additional security agents in keeping with a memo from last year that said the embassy should have had 5 security agents not Marine detachments which never arrived. Lying/misleading cuts both ways. Really? That is all you have to say with regard to Obama and his administration lying to the American people in an attempt to cover up this incident prior to the election? i would like to challenge the whole line of reasoning here. if the president really knew this was a terrorist event, he would be wise to ADVERTIZE it, imo. it worked for Bush, and it has worked for every leader since the dawn of civilization. if you can cloak yourself as the defender against visible and invisible enemies, it INCREASES your standing. this idea that somehow Obama is weakened by it is totally absurd. sorry, but it is.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 17, 2012 1:01:55 GMT -5
Agreed, dj. I'd imagine, when something like that happens nobody knows their butt from third base for awhile. With all that's going on in that part of the world, it's sometimes hard to tell an organized terrorist attack from just a bunch of folks with an axe to grind. It's always easy to armchair quarterback, it seems.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 17, 2012 1:22:47 GMT -5
Agreed, dj. I'd imagine, when something like that happens nobody knows their butt from third base for awhile. With all that's going on in that part of the world, it's sometimes hard to tell an organized terrorist attack from just a bunch of folks with an axe to grind. It's always easy to armchair quarterback, it seems. i think Obama is naturally cautious. perhaps that is a fault. perhaps it isn't. ie- after Bush invaded Iraq in 2003, given that the UN weapons inspectors wanted to continue looking for his mythical WMD, it seems that a little extra caution would have been advisable. on a side note, i think Romney is making a big mistake going after Obama on this issue. no matter what you might think of Obama personally, the man has handled foreign policy far better than anyone on the right ever gave him credit for.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Oct 17, 2012 1:54:52 GMT -5
Really? That is all you have to say with regard to Obama and his administration lying to the American people in an attempt to cover up this incident prior to the election? i would like to challenge the whole line of reasoning here. if the president really knew this was a terrorist event, he would be wise to ADVERTIZE it, imo. it worked for Bush, and it has worked for every leader since the dawn of civilization. if you can cloak yourself as the defender against visible and invisible enemies, it INCREASES your standing. this idea that somehow Obama is weakened by it is totally absurd. sorry, but it is. Are you on drugs? Obama knew that he had lost his standing as defender against visible and invisible enemies as soon as the attack and resulting deaths occurred. It was the last thing he needed right before the election. But now we know that it was an act of terror against the US. Based on your theory, he would have spent more time tonight on the topic and used the debate to promote himself as the great defender; instead he literally couldn't get Crowley to move onto the next debate topic fast enough. Your conclusion that he could use this terror attack to his advantage is "totally absurd".
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Oct 17, 2012 2:09:21 GMT -5
Agreed, dj. I'd imagine, when something like that happens nobody knows their butt from third base for awhile. With all that's going on in that part of the world, it's sometimes hard to tell an organized terrorist attack from just a bunch of folks with an axe to grind. It's always easy to armchair quarterback, it seems. Then why not wait to make a definitive statement about it until you have the facts? Instead, Obama made a false statement about it the very next day. The US Ambassador to the UN repeated the "story" no less than five times the following Sunday. It has been known for several days now that there was never a "bunch of folks with an axe to grind" outside the US consulate when the attack occurred. Perhaps you should tune into CSPAN from time to time instead of watching the channel where you currently get your "news".
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 17, 2012 2:21:19 GMT -5
What's been known "for several days now" isn't what was known at the time. I'm sure the investigation of events is ongoing and more will be forthcoming. Then again, I'm not one to claim I'm in on everything that goes on, why it goes on, or who's making the decisions.
That said, let me tell you something, sister. You don't tell ME where to get my news. You have no clue where I get my news. It's a cinch you're not the be-all-know-all of all things, and acting like you are won't make it so.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Oct 17, 2012 2:27:30 GMT -5
Agreed, dj. I'd imagine, when something like that happens nobody knows their butt from third base for awhile. With all that's going on in that part of the world, it's sometimes hard to tell an organized terrorist attack from just a bunch of folks with an axe to grind. It's always easy to armchair quarterback, it seems. i think Obama is naturally cautious. perhaps that is a fault. perhaps it isn't. ie- after Bush invaded Iraq in 2003, given that the UN weapons inspectors wanted to continue looking for his mythical WMD, it seems that a little extra caution would have been advisable. on a side note, i think Romney is making a big mistake going after Obama on this issue. no matter what you might think of Obama personally, the man has handled foreign policy far better than anyone on the right ever gave him credit for. Really? I don't care what kind of credit you believe Obama deserves for the way that he has handled foreign policy. If Obama didn't know the truth, I want to know why he didn't know the truth and why he delivered a "story" to the American people before he had the facts. If he had the facts, but flat-out lied about the incident, I want to know that too. Neither scenario is good news for Obama. Obama is the one who made "a big mistake".
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Oct 17, 2012 2:45:01 GMT -5
What's been known "for several days now" isn't what was known at the time. I'm sure the investigation of events is ongoing and more will be forthcoming. Then again, I'm not one to claim I'm in on everything that goes on, why it goes on, or who's making the decisions. That said, let me tell you something, sister. You don't tell ME where to get my news. You have no clue where I get my news. It's a cinch you're not the be-all-know-all of all things, and acting like you are won't make it so. It was known real time by the intelligence community when it happened. We, the American people, have known (because of the Congressional hearing) for several days now. The investigation of events is ongoing and more will be forthcoming and none of it is good for Obama. I'm not the be-all-know-all of all things, but I did spend hours watching the hearing last week so that I could get the facts (assuming that those who testified under oath told the truth) instead of listening to talking points from media who wants to protect Obama at any cost so that he'll be re-elected. The fact that Crowley stuck her neck out to inappropriately interject her "opinion" into the debate, instead of moderating it is evidence of that. I don't think that you would be getting your undies in a bundle if you didn't feel yourself that this might be a very big problem for Obama.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 5:32:27 GMT -5
Good morning, everyone. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) So, who won, last night? I fall asleep, waiting to watch debate. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 17, 2012 5:38:55 GMT -5
What's been known "for several days now" isn't what was known at the time. I'm sure the investigation of events is ongoing and more will be forthcoming. Then again, I'm not one to claim I'm in on everything that goes on, why it goes on, or who's making the decisions. That said, let me tell you something, sister. You don't tell ME where to get my news. You have no clue where I get my news. It's a cinch you're not the be-all-know-all of all things, and acting like you are won't make it so. It was known real time by the intelligence community when it happened. We, the American people, have known (because of the Congressional hearing) for several days now. The investigation of events is ongoing and more will be forthcoming and none of it is good for Obama. I'm not the be-all-know-all of all things, but I did spend hours watching the hearing last week so that I could get the facts (assuming that those who testified under oath told the truth) instead of listening to talking points from media who wants to protect Obama at any cost so that he'll be re-elected. The fact that Crowley stuck her neck out to inappropriately interject her "opinion" into the debate, instead of moderating it is evidence of that. I don't think that you would be getting your undies in a bundle if you didn't feel yourself that this might be a very big problem for Obama. Frankly, I don't care what you think, or what you don't think. It's obvious you THINK you know what you don't know. I didn't vote for Obama before and I won't vote for Obama in this election. I'm not an Obama fan. I just don't happen to feel he's to blame for this one, and I'm not one to go shooting darts where they shouldn't be aimed, mama. I'll clarify for you: My "undies" are in a bundle because you roared in here intimating a poster might be "on drugs", and telling me how I should be getting my news and what I should be thinking. Sorry, but you don't have the credentials to do that.
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mwcpa
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Post by mwcpa on Oct 17, 2012 5:44:09 GMT -5
"Obama is the one who made "a big mistake". " And like a true leader he took responsibility..... he did not throw Mrs. Clinton under the bus, he did not throw anybody under the bus..... "THE FACTS: Obama is correct in saying that he referred to Benghazi as an act of terrorism on Sept. 12, the day after the attack. From the Rose Garden, he said: ‘‘No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. ... We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act.’’" More "facts" like the one above are here...(both guys fibbed.... but Romney had more fibbing/exaggerations) www.boston.com/news/politics/2012/president/candidates/romney/2012/10/17/fact-check-stumbles-latest-presidential-debate/z9JkI4iahchgRdtWGMqaVJ/story.html
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 17, 2012 5:56:14 GMT -5
I'm just not sure, despite what's been reported, we have enough facts to determine what happened here or if, in fact, anybody was "lying". Hell, around here if someone makes a damned mistake, they're "lying" if they don't agree with you (generic you). Those people are dead. It seems to me a crying shame to trot their deaths out for political fodder. Maybe it's just me, but that's not the way I care to do things, and I really don't want to believe I'm the only one who feels that way. I'm sure that's not true.
I agree, mwcpa, the president handled the question regarding these deaths well. It's hard to know what he meant by his statement of Sept. 12, and he didn't try to defend it. Perhaps, when the dust clears and more facts are available, we'll know more.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Oct 17, 2012 6:41:41 GMT -5
Obama on Points.
It was a close card but, after 10 rounds it's a 2 point victory
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 17, 2012 6:47:48 GMT -5
I'd agree, cme. That's how it seemed to me, as well.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 6:54:30 GMT -5
I always prefer cautious and level headed in my leaders.
Obama did not lie ... He said it was a terrible act of terror...
The gas thing just pissed me off, dec 08 and Jan 09 were anomalies... Most of 2008 gas was 3-4$ a gallon, just like now...
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 17, 2012 6:56:21 GMT -5
LOL! Yeah, I heard the "gas thing", oped. I've seen that one bandied about before. That is soooo deceptive, but both sides tend to do stuff like that. They should all just cut it out and try honesty for a change!
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 17, 2012 7:11:36 GMT -5
My thoughts are:
Obama won the battle, and lost the war. What he did well tactically hurt him strategically. Obama won on points, but lost big on substance- which is why, in the end, this will be a debate Romney wins by a knockout if not last night, then in November.
It was a HUGE debacle for the media (again).
On several key substantive points, Romney was right, and Obama was wrong. They will be discussed at length in the coming week, and it won't be good for Obama.
1. On energy policy: Romney nailed Obama on oil and gas permits on public lands and public waters. Romney was right. Obama was forced into explaining WHY, but unable ultimately to deny it.
2. On jobs, Romney explained the facts: yes, five million jobs have been created, but only after losing five million jobs; and the simple truth is that there are fewer people working today than there were working when Obama took office.
3. On growth: the economy grew more slowly this year than last, and last year grew more slowly than the year before.
4. On Benghazi: Romney was right.
This was a disaster for Candy, Obama, and the media because Obama's argument is simply untenable. Nobody honestly believes now that we didn't just spend the last month with Obama denying it was terror, saying he didn't know, saying it was spontaneous, saying it was due to the video, saying it was under investigation. Obama lost a lot of credibility on that- it was Obama's weakest issue of the night; and the worst part for Obama: he got put on the spot, he's on record, and the nation is going to spend yet another week with Benghazi on the front page just like we did after Biden lied about it last week.
And it was another devastating blow for the media whose credibility is already quite low. Another instance of the moderator joining the debate- and it was catastrophic because it puts the media and Obama on one side- WRONG; and Mitt Romney on the other: RIGHT.
And yes, it is that black and white- and everyone knows it.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 17, 2012 7:16:21 GMT -5
LOL! Yeah, I heard the "gas thing", oped. I've seen that one bandied about before. That is soooo deceptive, but both sides tend to do stuff like that. They should all just cut it out and try honesty for a change! Are we talking gasoline prices? I will agree with Obama on this. I thought it was his best point of the debate, and still a missed opportunity for him. If I were Obama, I would have said, "Well, I guess you could vote for Mitt Romney, and the economy will tank again, but you'll have low gas prices!" and "The truth is that the price dip was a blip, the average price of gasoline in the 12 months before I took office was over $3.30 a gallon and the average national price today is only slightly higher. It's dishonest to say that it was $1.87 when I took office and not look at the big picture." Because it is. Now, he'd still be wrong overall on energy policy, but you can't spend a week saying Romney won the last debate because he lied, and fail to pin him down as a liar in this debate. Instead, the opposite happened. Obama clearly lied about a whole host of things that are easily verifiable- he needed this point and he didn't get it.
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Oct 17, 2012 7:18:22 GMT -5
I will give that one to President "Sketchy" on points. He did without a doubt have some help from the moderator, took more then his amount of time, failed to follow her directions more and won the argument about what he said in the Rose Garden by a technicality. He did in fact use those three words "act of terror" but not in direct reference to this attack like he tried to imply last night winning him the "Sketchy" award for the night.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 7:20:33 GMT -5
Does no one read a freaking transcript?? He clearly called it a terrible act it terror...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 17, 2012 7:24:20 GMT -5
Does no one read a freaking transcript?? He clearly called it a terrible act it terror... No. He did not. Since you brought it up, why don't you post the verbiage you're referencing? He never once called it an act of terror. In context, he was referencing 9.11.01 and he said, "No act of terror...". This is black and white, and it's a slam dunk for Romney, and a catastrophe for Obama.
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