Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Feb 3, 2011 14:59:12 GMT -5
If your DH/mother/father/sister/brother/son/or 3rd uncle twice removed shows up at your office and takes you to lunch, you will not be taken seriously as a professional? Only non-professional damsels in distress have lunch dates? I think that is quite a stretch.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Feb 3, 2011 14:59:31 GMT -5
Thyme, I don't think you have misunderstood the suggetion of having her husband call or come for a visit. It isn't because the little lady can't fend for herself. Some people have suggested not only that OP's husband come in to put a face to himself, but also to threaten the coworker by implying he'll physically harm him. Those suggestions are precisely because "the little lady can't fend for herself". I realize some people are suggesting bringing hubby in simply to put a face on "the other guy" to make it less fantastical and more real, but some are openly suggesting hubby needs to have words the other guy on his wife's behalf intimating what harm might soon come to him.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 3, 2011 15:00:51 GMT -5
So, just the mere act of walking within a few feet of a male of the species will make another man lose interest all together? Or does she need to look loving at him and bat her eyelashes to prove they are happy together.
She may (depending on the office) look like a moron if she brings in her husband and "shows him off" by introducing him around.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Feb 3, 2011 15:06:55 GMT -5
If your DH/mother/father/sister/brother/son/or 3rd uncle twice removed shows up at your office and takes you to lunch, you will not be taken seriously as a professional? Only non-professional damsels in distress have lunch dates? I think that is quite a stretch. I agree, but most people who have lunch dates don't walk their lunch date around introducing them to everyone either. I wouldn't have a clue about who my coworkers go on lunch dates with. So what the point of having a "lunch date" with hubby to dissuade this guy's advances unless you're doing something weird like parading your husband around the office introducing him to people who don't care that you're going to lunch with him in the first place? I think if you plan on continuing to work in this place, one of the things to avoid is making yourself look like the "crazy one" or weird in some way. You have less credibility with co-workers if they see you as the weird one in the office.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Feb 3, 2011 15:07:56 GMT -5
Hoops - I agree that having her husband threaten the co-worker is a bad idea.
Thyme - Yes, I think there is a good chance that merely seeing them happy together will put a monkey wrench in his fantasy world. We have limited information of course, but what we do have suggests the co-worker is not firmly rooted in reality.
I have never worked in an office where introducing others to your spouse made you look like a moron. I didn't realize that might be a consideration, but yes, if that is the situation in OP's office, then it is likely not a good idea.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 3, 2011 15:10:24 GMT -5
How do the logistics of this work though? When my husband comes to the office and picks me up for lunch, he sits in the car or the lobby. Are you suggesting the OP have him sit there until the guy leaves his desk and then she run in front of the guy and meet the husband seconds before the guy sees her. Or should they sit in the parking lot and make out for the whole 2 hour potential lunch period. If it is the type of office that is secured, should she go to the lobby and get her husband and then bring him back to her desk, making sure to parade him past the guy's office - maybe pretending she forgot her purse? Or, do you just have the husband come every day for several months and hope that once or twice the guy just happens to see him?
What if they husband works across town and would have a 90 minute commute to get there for lunch? Is this worth vacation time - just in case this "might" shatter the illusion?
Why go through this type of hassle when the answer is probably in the employee handbook? "Hey HR, this guy asked me out repeatedly, and I've told him "no" in certain terms. He didn't take it well. I'll let you know if anything more comes of it."
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Feb 3, 2011 15:11:56 GMT -5
OMG, people! I am the one who suggested the OP's husband come pick her up for lunch or after work. He can wait in the reception area, hallway, parking lot, wherever. That part doesn't matter. What matters is the fact that there will be a face put to OP's husband. The reason why this is important is this: When someone starts to obsess about someone, they dehumanize them, and tend to forget reality. The reality would be coworker SEEING OP's husband, ie her relationship, outside of work. This is the key here. This may help as she continues to document, and figure what steps, if any, to make w/ HR. I am NOT suggesting drama at the work place. Nor am I suggesting women are weak, they should call out the calvary, etc. This is what I am suggesting for this particular situation. If he waits in the parking lot or reception area or whatever, then what's to say it's going to humanize him in the face of the coworker if coworker never sees him? If you want coworker to put a face with the husband and "humanize" the situation, then he's got to be somewhere coworker will actually see him. This isn't the animal kingdom, coworker isn't going to suddenly smell hubby's scent and sense that another male is in the vicinity.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 3, 2011 15:13:16 GMT -5
Wait until what? Is he just going to loiter there until the co-worker comes down? Unless the worker is there too, how would the co-worker know it is her husband?
How many times a week/month/year do you have spouses walking around your office?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 3, 2011 15:15:30 GMT -5
I'm reading it, and re-reading it. No where have you explained how the co-worker is going to see husband and wife together if the husband is just hanging out in the reception area. Maybe the guy doesn't go out for lunch (maybe he is a YM-er and packs a sandwich.) Maybe the guy works late, or leaves early that day for a dentist appointment. Unless SHE stalks HIM, this is a crap-shoot at best.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Feb 3, 2011 15:17:25 GMT -5
I'm with you, Thyme. Oooh, and one more post, Thyme, and you'r at magic number 1000!
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Feb 3, 2011 15:21:02 GMT -5
She shouldn't try it. It makes her look like the weird one in the situation, sitting around hoping coworker will happen by so she can introduce him to her husband. It's a strange passive-aggressive looking action when she hasn't even taken the direct and simply step of going to HR or her boss with the situation.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 3, 2011 15:22:19 GMT -5
The devil is in the details - but keep coming up with vague plans with little hope of success, and then just schluffing off the nay-sayers when they ask 'how'.
Since we don't know what the OP's company is like - how would you insure that your coworker would see you in your office. Just an example might help me reason through your **brilliant** plan.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 3, 2011 15:22:48 GMT -5
I think I visit DH's offices twice a year, roughly. And it's usually planned in advance by him and me as I'm bringing the kidlets for him to show off. Then we go out for lunch.
And yes, it's getting harder to do. I have to check in at the front desk, get a name badge and wait for him to escort me. Doing this with 2 toddlers is harder than it was with 1 sleeping infant so it's not likely to be happening a whole lot longer even though his bosses and coworkers seem to enjoy seeing me and the kids.
He's been to my office as well but my office is even harder to get into as I work in a district police building and my floor isn't accessible to the general public.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 3, 2011 15:24:30 GMT -5
Let's pretend for a second that coworker DOES see the DH. You are making a HUGE assumption that it will do anything positive. As a matter of fact, if he is really saying things like "one day you will be mine", my half-educated guess is that it might actually royally piss him off, bc no normal, stable person says things like that in a professional environment.
And even if I do go with your version of the events, I STILL think that bringing someone to work to try to solve your problem is not the way to go. But that's just me. I could be wrong, I've been wrong before.
Lena
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 3, 2011 15:24:40 GMT -5
My work email and instant message saves copies every time I use them. If he's talking to you electronically make sure you save copies in a folder for later documentation should you decide to report him to HR.
While it was not harassment, I got someone who claimed I never sent an email this way. Not only did I have a copy it was nicely dated and time stamped.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 3, 2011 15:40:13 GMT -5
Let's pretend for a second that coworker DOES see the DH. You are making a HUGE assumption that it will do anything positive. As a matter of fact, if he is really saying things like "one day you will be mine", my half-educated guess is that it might actually royally piss him off, bc no normal, stable person says things like that in a professional environment. And even if I do go with your version of the events, I STILL think that bringing someone to work to try to solve your problem is not the way to go. But that's just me. I could be wrong, I've been wrong before. Lena If this co-worker is so mentally unstable, putting a face to the husband 'could' put the husband's personal safety in jeopardy. Family should stay out of it and let the co-worker's manager, HR and security deal with this. And the OP should not waste any time.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Feb 3, 2011 15:47:21 GMT -5
Let's pretend for a second that coworker DOES see the DH. You are making a HUGE assumption that it will do anything positive. As a matter of fact, if he is really saying things like "one day you will be mine", my half-educated guess is that it might actually royally piss him off, bc no normal, stable person says things like that in a professional environment. And even if I do go with your version of the events, I STILL think that bringing someone to work to try to solve your problem is not the way to go. But that's just me. I could be wrong, I've been wrong before. Lena If this co-worker is so mentally unstable, putting a face to the husband 'could' put the husband's personal safety in jeopardy. Family should stay out of it and let the co-worker's manager, HR and security deal with this. And the OP should not waste any time. Or coworker sees husband and realizes (or convinces himself) that he's better looking and so doubles his efforts to convince her to leave her "loser" husband for the "better option". If he's as unbalanced as OP makes him out to be then trying to logically figure out his reaction is probably useless.
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Elizabeth
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 3, 2011 17:17:54 GMT -5
Hi all- update: Well, actually, first let me clarify- we don't work in the same office. He works in the main office in Georgia and I work in a branch in California. We have only met briefly in person twice when I have gone to the main office for training and a conference. So the possibility of him meeting my husband is almost nil. I have mentioned the situation to my husband, but not in its entirety because 1) it just recently started getting bad, and 2) I'm afraid of what he would do. I have a strong feeling he would be furious and do something stupid and get himself thrown in jail, so I'm fighting this battle on my own. So far today, I have IMs saved of my co-worker apologizing for getting upset with me yesterday and then telling me he was going to send me roses for Valetine's Day. I didn't respond to either, just added them to the Word document I started yesterday. I'm still deciding if/when I will take it to HR. At this point, I am not afraid for my life or of him flying out here to stalk me, although I guess it could happen. He doesn't know my home address or phone number or anything like that.
ETA: I think my first post may have been misleading when I said I "work with" him. I should have said I have to communicate with him every day. I apologize for the confusion.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 3, 2011 17:38:15 GMT -5
"He doesn't know my home address or phone number or anything like that."
Thank you know of. It's not that hard to find out information when you have a name. Heck, googling is a verb now.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Feb 3, 2011 17:58:18 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents - I would type up a base response to anything inappropriate like "That comment was inappropriate. Please do not say things of this nature to me in the future. Our relationship is of a professional nature only. If you continue with this behavior I will be forced to report you to HR" Then everytime he says something, just send off the exact same typed message in response. Possibly adding a sentence to address something specific like "Do not send me any roses".
Then save the IM conversation as you have been doing. A lack of response by you to some of his comments could be seen as accepting the behavior. But, if you are consistent in your responses & have several documented incidents, then I think you can feel confident going to HR. I am guessing you work for a large company seeing as you have offices in different states. I am assuming that HR would take the complaint very seriously given that they could get in big trouble if they allow harassment to continue in their workplace. You shouldn't get fired & if you did after making a formal complaint, then you could easily go after the company for wrongful termination. Don't expect him to get fired immediately either. He will likely get a warning & it will be on you to document & report any further inappropriate behavior on his part & hopefully you will no longer work with him directly.
Now it is possible that things wouldn't go this way & your complaint will get blown off or you will recieve more harassment for making such a complaint. If this does happen, then don't let it go. Continue documenting everything & report it to the EEOC because it is likely that the employer is breaking the law if they let this behavior continue.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 3, 2011 17:58:36 GMT -5
Elizabeth thanks for the update. Are IMs a regular way you communicate with your co-workers? I'm asking because in person, on the phone, or email typically have been the usual modes of communication for me with co-workers.
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Elizabeth
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 3, 2011 18:06:00 GMT -5
Elizabeth thanks for the update. Are IMs a regular way you communicate with your co-workers? I'm asking because in person, on the phone, or email typically have been the usual modes of communication for me with co-workers. Yes, we have a specific company IM system and we all use it frequently. It also has abilities to let us share screens, make calls from our computer, and has video capabilities. It's a faster way to get a quick answer than e-mailing. If it's more complicated than a few sentences though I will normally call the person and follow up with an e-mail.
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daylight
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Post by daylight on Feb 3, 2011 18:47:53 GMT -5
Elizabeth,
Please forgive me, if I reiterate this, but telling someone that you'll be mine one day knowing your family status is not funny. This guy is seriously disturbed and you should continue to take this problem seriously. Considering the distance between you, he may hurt your promotion chances earlier than yourself, but then again, your work performance is also at a bigger risk than your physical well-being precisely because of the distance between you.
I'm glad you decided to take a course of action and was very glad to hear that he does not live in close proximity to you.
Do not assume that the worst is over. The worst may only be coming now, when he seems backing off. Do watch your back, please.
Talk to either your DH or a friend who is IT savvy. As someone pointed out before, your IM-s are most likely saved either on your drive or on some company server. I hope you won't ever need to have on hand your previous correspondence with him, but if things do escalate, they do so in an instant. You might never need them, but if you do, you may need them immediately. Since you mostly communicate via IM or email (or phone, I suppose), should things ever escalate, proof of your IM-s and emails are your best chance to prove that he did indeed harass you.
This is easier done if you have computer access from home, but if not, stay an hour or two longer, find those copies (I'd be really surprised if they were not there) and e-mail them to your private e-mail address immediately or use a pendrive, which ever is in line with your company policy (if any). Having everything on file or in a WORD doc at work is fine, but you need your own copies just to be on the safe side.
In case it seems that things are going smoothly, I'd suggest that you keep copying your IM-s for a while anyway, just to see if something comes up. Make sure you have on record every atrocious line from him from now on and please do your best to recover every relevant conversation with him.
Then, you can relax.
Maybe I'm taking this all too seriously, but this guy does work with you, he has various means of communication to harass you each and every day and he absolutely knows what he is doing. There are only so many times you can hang up on him before he reports you for being unprofessional with him. You need to be prepared.
Wish you a best of luck, you really deserve better co-workers. And congrats for standing up for yourself. Don't let him get to you.
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 3, 2011 19:12:12 GMT -5
Well, actually, first let me clarify- we don't work in the same office. He works in the main office in Georgia and I work in a branch in California.
Wow. I can't decide if this makes things better, or worse.
ETA: Given the distance, Elizabeth, can't you at least discuss this with your immediate boss? I mean the one in your office.
The distance is comforting (to some extent) but that fact that this guy is so obsessed with you from that distance is terrifying. PLEASE do something.
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 3, 2011 19:24:13 GMT -5
I second Wisconsin Beth, it's SO easy to find out somebody's personal info. ESPECIALLY if you work together. Even if he can't find that info online (HIGHLY unlikely, I'm guessing he's very good at it) all he has to do if wait till you go on a planned vacation or take a planned day off, tell somebody higher up that you left without completing some urgent assignment, and bingo, he has your info. The fact that he can probably make it look like he's saving the situation in the process, will endear just one of you to HR, and I'm guessing you can guess which one of you that is.
Of course most people never take it to the extent of physically harming somebody. But some do, and nobody wants to be the exception and make the nightly news.
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showtime
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Post by showtime on Feb 3, 2011 19:51:41 GMT -5
After reading all this, especially the different ways to retaliate (like bringing your husband in, etc..), I'd like to chime in some of my viewpoints.
1) Regardless of your marital status, whether you're happily married, sadly married, trouble in a relationship, single, divorced, separated, WHATEVER. This is all irrelevant. Bottom line, his advances are inappropriate and uncalled for, and you should not have to tolerate this.
2) No person, from the CEO to the receptionist is "un-touchable". Every person is expendable. The company is obligated to provide you with a non-hostile working environment.
3) You need to take action. The company is not allowed to retaliate against you. It is wise of you to start documenting, but for your sake, I would bring this up with HR.
However, I'd also like to know. You mention you were "on friendly terms" to the point you felt that perhaps he mistook these terms to be affection. (going slightly off topic, that is still no excuse for him to act the way he's been acting, being nice is not equal to "I love you") How is it you were so "friendly" if he was in Georgia and you in California? Have you ever had any phyiscal relations with him? I'm not trying to out you, or have you confess if you had extramarital affairs, but is there more to this story?
If Not, then by all means, take this matter up with HR. Document his inappropriateness. You should not have to subject yourself to a hostile working environment. All companies I worked for have 0 (ZERO) tolerance for this with punishment being immediate termination.
My 2 cents
-Ben
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Elizabeth
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 3, 2011 23:41:07 GMT -5
[/quote]However, I'd also like to know. You mention you were "on friendly terms" to the point you felt that perhaps he mistook these terms to be affection. (going slightly off topic, that is still no excuse for him to act the way he's been acting, being nice is not equal to "I love you") How is it you were so "friendly" if he was in Georgia and you in California? Have you ever had any phyiscal relations with him? I'm not trying to out you, or have you confess if you had extramarital affairs, but is there more to this story?
Ben[/quote]
Hi Ben,
A fair question. I will clarify what I meant by friendly. All I meant by that is back when he had a steady, live in girlfriend, we would talk about non-work related things. We would ask each other what we did over the weekend, he would tell me about his upcoming promotions and I would tell him that I was happy for him, just things that were not always work related, but never extremely personal either. After his girlfriend dumped him we didn't really talk for a couple months except work related topics and I didn't think about it too much. I was busy with my own life. Then one day in an IM he told me he was in love with me, that he wanted me to get a divorce, and that he wanted me to be with him forever. Of course I was shocked. And that's what I've been dealing with for the past month. We have never had any physical relations.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 4, 2011 0:40:30 GMT -5
"After his girlfriend dumped him we didn't really talk for a couple months except work related topics and I didn't think about it too much. I was busy with my own life. Then one day in an IM he told me he was in love with me, that he wanted me to get a divorce, and that he wanted me to be with him forever. Of course I was shocked. And that's what I've been dealing with for the past month. We have never had any physical relations."
Sounds like he may have lost it after the girlfriend left. Telling him repeatedly he needs to find someone else and perhaps he should see someone to help him deal with his reaction to the break up might help. Definitely document and consider talking to your boss or someone at work who might be able to help.
You could even it phrase it gently at first, i.e. not the sexual harassment issue. Start with I'm concerned with John Doe, he seems to have lost it after his girlfriend left. For last month or so he keeps telling me things like I should get a divorce and be with him. Its not stopping and he doesn't appear to be getting better. Any suggestions on what I should do or how we can help him?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 4, 2011 9:00:34 GMT -5
I'm not a computer expert but I know you can get those IM's and emails. They are stored somewhere in your computer. Get someone who knows how to get them for you. But I second the last post AFTER you get those old emails.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 4, 2011 9:03:29 GMT -5
I second Wisconsin Beth, it's SO easy to find out somebody's personal info. ESPECIALLY if you work together. Even if he can't find that info online (HIGHLY unlikely, I'm guessing he's very good at it) all he has to do if wait till you go on a planned vacation or take a planned day off, tell somebody higher up that you left without completing some urgent assignment, and bingo, he has your info. The fact that he can probably make it look like he's saving the situation in the process, will endear just one of you to HR, and I'm guessing you can guess which one of you that is. Of course most people never take it to the extent of physically harming somebody. But some do, and nobody wants to be the exception and make the nightly news. Just to expound on this. We had a work phone go missing about 4 months ago. I'm in IT and we handle phones as well as computers. We found out after about 30-45 days. We downloaded some of the phone records for the number of the missing phone. Within 4 hours or so, my boss, starting with phone numbers from those records, had determined who ended up with the phone and had a name, address, girlfriend (and a LOT on her family), job info and FB stuff on him. Granted my boss has superior IT skills, but he didn't use anything that wasn't freely available on the web to find all this info. It' takes patience and time but if you have any kind of presence on the web, someone who is determined can find you.
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