thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 2, 2011 11:37:08 GMT -5
agilemom's approach is a good one, because you can use it as many times as he continues.
If you sit him down with the ultimatum, then he keeps going, you must act or look foolish. But, if every time he says "But I love you." and you respond "Ha ha, I deserve better than some loser who couldn't look past the person that sits closest to him at work." Then the next time he says "I'll have you." and you respond "Not even if I get you fired for sexual harrassment." He might get the hint. You can change his behavior slowly over time, instead of an all-or-nothing deal.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Feb 2, 2011 12:11:30 GMT -5
Seems to be a lot of recommendations that you just give up. Bullshit!
1. Have your husband get a few of his buddies to find him after work and either push this punk around or kick his freakin' ass into next week.
2. Next time he does this to you, start SCREAMING YOUR HEAD OFF. Don't stop as people come over to find out what's going on and try to calm you (he'll have run off). Be hysterical for as long as you can. Keep yelling "Keep him away from me. He's stalking me, he's threatening me. I can't take this anymore". Getting down on the floor and going into the fetal position will help. This will create a positive incentive for him to leave you alone.
3. Kick him in the groin, repeatedly.
Somebody did this to my wife, he would get the holy begeezus beaten out of him, focusing on the guts and the nuts where it wouldn't leave marks. Then, when my wife was finished beating him, I'd take over.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 2, 2011 12:15:55 GMT -5
That will only make her look like a nut job. She needs proof if she wants to pursue this any further. Even if she gets someone to beat him up, they will get in trouble not him. He can get her fired and he knows it.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Feb 2, 2011 12:22:00 GMT -5
That will only make her look like a nut job. She needs proof if she wants to pursue this any further. Even if she gets someone to beat him up, they will get in trouble not him. He can get her fired and he knows it. Sure, she should just give up and take it. After all, she's completely powerless.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Feb 2, 2011 12:23:47 GMT -5
Seems to be a lot of recommendations that you just give up. Bullshit! 1. Have your husband get a few of his buddies to find him after work and either push this punk around or kick his freakin' ass into next week. 2. Next time he does this to you, start SCREAMING YOUR HEAD OFF. Don't stop as people come over to find out what's going on and try to calm you (he'll have run off). Be hysterical for as long as you can. Keep yelling "Keep him away from me. He's stalking me, he's threatening me. I can't take this anymore". Getting down on the floor and going into the fetal position will help. This will create a positive incentive for him to leave you alone. 3. Kick him in the groin, repeatedly. Somebody did this to my wife, he would get the holy begeezus beaten out of him, focusing on the guts and the nuts where it wouldn't leave marks. Then, when my wife was finished beating him, I'd take over. Your heart is in the right place, but IMO this is not good advice. Screaming at work that "He is stalking me and I can't take it" is likely to get HER branded unstable and fired. Having her husband and his friends beat him up is a felony. I do think she might have her husband call and have a polite word. Such as "I know you have been making advances towards my wife and I do not appreciate it." That just might take the fun and fantasy out of pursuing OP.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 2, 2011 12:30:52 GMT -5
Seems to be a lot of recommendations that you just give up. Bullshit! 1. Have your husband get a few of his buddies to find him after work and either push this punk around or kick his freakin' ass into next week. 2. Next time he does this to you, start SCREAMING YOUR HEAD OFF. Don't stop as people come over to find out what's going on and try to calm you (he'll have run off). Be hysterical for as long as you can. Keep yelling "Keep him away from me. He's stalking me, he's threatening me. I can't take this anymore". Getting down on the floor and going into the fetal position will help. This will create a positive incentive for him to leave you alone. 3. Kick him in the groin, repeatedly. Somebody did this to my wife, he would get the holy begeezus beaten out of him, focusing on the guts and the nuts where it wouldn't leave marks. Then, when my wife was finished beating him, I'd take over. Yeeeeeah... that approach is like blowing up a building because there's a bad smell inside. Overkill times a million. I'm not saying this asshole doesn't deserve what's coming to him, but it won't do anyone any good to resort to physical violence and/or getting her labeled as unstable. Did you read the part about how management is already inclined to take his part? Any approach that vaguely resembled your recommendation would not only get her fired-- it would probably land her in jail. I have a feeling you were joking. I like Petunia's idea about having the hubby call and have a civil yet firm conversation with the dude. That should drive home the idea that she's not interested.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 2, 2011 12:38:43 GMT -5
It might backfire as well. That conversation should be taped. Have you thought of talking to a lawyer about this? The trouble is that other than leaving her job, she has no recourse. She has tried nicely and then not so nicely to get rid of him but she has been unsuccessful because he doesn't want to hear what she is saying.
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Feb 2, 2011 12:40:08 GMT -5
I would immediately advise HR about the behavior, demand that they they talk to him and in that conversation I would let HR that they are now put on notice that if the behavior does not stop that they are then then creating a hostile work enviornment because of the sexual harassment and I would go to EEOC.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 2, 2011 13:01:00 GMT -5
Good luck with that. I find that HR is totally useless when it comes to things like this. I hope your experience is different.
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The J
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Post by The J on Feb 2, 2011 13:06:15 GMT -5
See reply 17:
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 2, 2011 13:25:46 GMT -5
Find out what he doesn't like in women and adopt one of those behaviors. He's obviously on a power trip but you could try doing something he hates and turn him off. In general be blunt and keep your words to a minimum. When you told him to stop and that he has no chance he probably heard I have a chance. (Wish I could remember that book by the woman advertising exec but she had many examples of what she said versus what her male coworkers heard.)
I think your explanations are hurting you. Practice a raised eyebrow and a look that says are you kidding me. Next time when it happens, give him the look and then say What business matter did you want to discuss?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 2, 2011 13:33:50 GMT -5
Can you keep another co-worker with you or within earshot?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 2, 2011 13:39:44 GMT -5
Ah - sorry - I must have missed some posts in the middle.
Yes - I would give him one last "I'm going to HR if it happens again" and then go to HR. I agree that often they are useless (in matters like this and most other matters also) but you have to have it on record so when the tomatoes hit the fan, you at least followed procedure.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Feb 2, 2011 13:51:44 GMT -5
I would immediately advise HR about the behavior, demand that they they talk to him and in that conversation I would let HR that they are now put on notice that if the behavior does not stop that they are then then creating a hostile work enviornment because of the sexual harassment and I would go to EEOC. absolutely. as a friend who works in HR (not at my company) told me over the summer, if you even say "sexual harassment" in anything documented, they will be bending over backwards to cover their own asses. if that happens to include helping you out along the way, then you've achieved what you wanted. if not, you've laid the groundwork for a good lawsuit after you find your next position. either way, I feel for you. good luck, and stay safe, OP. this guy really does sound a bit off his rocker.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 2, 2011 14:49:10 GMT -5
I am reading some of the responses in complete disbelief: "have you DH talk to him", " be sarcastic", "hit him in the groin". I really do hope you guys are joking.
One - she is not 5 that she needs her DH talk to anyone at HER job, two - she is not 5 and it's not a playground that she needs to be hitting anyone.
Is it a crappy situation? Sure. But that's life and there are times we have to make tough decisions.
It seems that she told him everything she could tell him. So, time to either to take it a step further or let it go.
Good luck!! Lena
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 2, 2011 14:54:28 GMT -5
I agree Lena - I would never send my husband in to deal with my work problems. That is just lame. Besides - being married has absolutely nothing to do with it. If she was single, but not interested, she wouldn't be obligated to go out with him - just because she is single. Not wanting to date a guy is reason enough to not go out on a date with him. I mean, if the guy was doing this, she was single and went into HR - do you think the HR director (and the EEOC) would say "Well, you are single - why aren't you dating him?" No, they would say "Oh, he's just joking around - just blow it off." At least that is what I was told when I complained about a guy at work.
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Post by illinicheme on Feb 2, 2011 15:00:45 GMT -5
Laws and HR exist for situations just like this. Document, document, document and go to HR ASAP.
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Post by notasbadasithought on Feb 2, 2011 15:04:48 GMT -5
I don't know what kind of company you work for, but as chiver78 said - one word to our HR department would start an immediate investigation. He may hem and haw and say "Oh, I didn't mean anything by it" but sexual harassment (or any kind of harassment) is all about perception. It is not up to the "harasser" to determine how you feel. If you feel you are being harassed, then your HR dept. HAS to take action or face possible legal repercussions.
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Elizabeth
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 2, 2011 15:09:55 GMT -5
Update: This morning I came into my office and I received a call from him asking how I was doing this morning. I told him I am busy and don't have time for small talk, and asked if there was anything I could help him with. He then came back with "What's wrong, can't we talk it over?" I responded with "I have nothing to talk about with you unless you have something business related we need to discuss." To which again he wanted to know what my problem was and begged me to tell him what was wrong. I told him that I am very sorry if I ever led him on but it was unintentional, that I am not interested and if he keeps pursuing me I will contact HR, at which point he slammed the phone down. A few minutes later he sent me an IM that said "Please, please can't we talk about this?" I said "I meant what I said about reporting you to HR." I saw the note that says "(name) is typing" going on for about 5 minutes as I waited for his reply. But all he finally came back with "Fine. I am sorry I have disturbed you. I won't bother you again. BYE!!" So, who knows if he really is finished. I will have to watch my deals very closely to make sure he does't decline them for ridiculous reasons if they should happen to go to his queue, but I don't want to leave a job I have worked hard to get because he is insane, stupid, or both. I did save the IM conversation into a Word document. I wish I had been saving them all along.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 2, 2011 15:16:13 GMT -5
I hope this ends it for you but watch your back for quite awhile.
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Frappuccino
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Post by Frappuccino on Feb 2, 2011 15:26:40 GMT -5
Since you can't quit your job and you cant go to HR, how about responding to every single come on with a shoot down? Just make it your normal course of business, and do not let up a single time. No more Mrs. Niceguy.
"sick - can we get back to work please?", "Not in a million years - can we get back to work please?", "Never - can we get back to work please?" over and over to every single inappropriate comment.
If you do not need to work with him at that moment, then you can just do a dramatic and exasperated sigh and leave the room.
If anyone is in earshot for ANY of his comments, you can say "Joe did you hear him just harassing me?", "oh he just harassed me again will you be my witness Sara?"
I think if you are consistently not so fun to be around he will find a new target.
This kind of stuff never happens to me. I would have way too much fun with this.
Ooops, I just read your update. I hope he leaves you alone too. Good luck!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2011 15:52:04 GMT -5
The decisions he makes at work directly affect my bonus. He is good at his job and his manager sides with his decisions 99% of the time, so she doesn’t audit him that closely. All the more reason to report him. Someone that does not know enough to back off after being told so many times is going to be a problem and you need to start getting this documented.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2011 15:53:37 GMT -5
I just saw your update and I think you have a big problem on your hands. This is going to come back to haunt you with bonuses and promotions, or rather lack of.
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hsclassic
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Post by hsclassic on Feb 2, 2011 15:57:39 GMT -5
In our company, that call would go into an Ethics and Compliance hotline. If that option doesn't exist, call the Law Department and ask to speak with the labor attorney. You can always mention you are considering hiring an attorney to deal with this unwanted situation....that will get their attention. (I work in the Law Department and have a pretty good idea of which buttons, when pushed, get attention.) And, yes, document everything....even phone calls.
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rileyoday
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Post by rileyoday on Feb 2, 2011 16:00:51 GMT -5
Tell him you and the kids are leaving your husband. Can he rent a truck for this weekend and let all of you stay with him till the end of summer.
That should get rid of him.
Get a small digital recorder for all your future conversations between him, you, supervisor and HR. You may need it.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Feb 2, 2011 16:01:27 GMT -5
Update: This morning I came into my office and I received a call from him asking how I was doing this morning. I told him I am busy and don't have time for small talk, and asked if there was anything I could help him with. He then came back with "What's wrong, can't we talk it over?" I responded with "I have nothing to talk about with you unless you have something business related we need to discuss." To which again he wanted to know what my problem was and begged me to tell him what was wrong. I told him that I am very sorry if I ever led him on but it was unintentional, that I am not interested and if he keeps pursuing me I will contact HR, at which point he slammed the phone down. A few minutes later he sent me an IM that said "Please, please can't we talk about this?" I said "I meant what I said about reporting you to HR." I saw the note that says "(name) is typing" going on for about 5 minutes as I waited for his reply. But all he finally came back with "Fine. I am sorry I have disturbed you. I won't bother you again. BYE!!" So, who knows if he really is finished. I will have to watch my deals very closely to make sure he does't decline them for ridiculous reasons if they should happen to go to his queue, but I don't want to leave a job I have worked hard to get because he is insane, stupid, or both. I did save the IM conversation into a Word document. I wish I had been saving them all along. Wow, he sounds unstable all right. I hope he pouts and then gets over it. Best of luck to you, Elizabeth.
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The J
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Post by The J on Feb 2, 2011 16:04:58 GMT -5
In our company, that call would go into an Ethics and Compliance hotline. If that option doesn't exist, call the Law Department and ask to speak with the labor attorney. You can always mention you are considering hiring an attorney to deal with this unwanted situation....that will get their attention. (I work in the Law Department and have a pretty good idea of which buttons, when pushed, get attention.) And, yes, document everything....even phone calls. Are you an attorney in the law department? I'd never give someone this advice -- my job is to look out for the best interests of the company, not the best interests of the employee. You don't call legal unless HR is completely non-responsive, and then you shouldn't call legal -- you should hire an attorney to do it (even if you just pay them for an hour to make the call).
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ihearyou2
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Post by ihearyou2 on Feb 2, 2011 16:10:05 GMT -5
I find it sad how many people don't trust HR. When I worked in a big company they were pretty useless but in a case of black and white harassment you got to start with them and see how it goes. Can't be a defeatist even with prior knowledge of failures. I started with HR as my beginning step in personnel issues and if they weren't helpful I did what needed to be done based off my prior experiences.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 2, 2011 17:02:15 GMT -5
One - she is not 5 that she needs her DH talk to anyone at HER job, two - she is not 5 and it's not a playground that she needs to be hitting anyone.I don't see the problem with having an outsider get involved-- the normally sound advice of "go to HR" isn't as applicable or effective here as it would be in other situations, and guys like this don't tend to step off just because the lady asks politely. They almost always need to hear it from someone else. Why not her husband? Particularly if he's large or a black belt in karate OP, I had a similar situation with a coworker (not quite as creepy because he wasn't openly hitting on me, but very unsettling all the same-- he wanted me to travel with him to a strange city sans my boyfriend / his wife for a non-work related reason and went so far as to BOOK THE TICKETS over my protests). So one thing I can tell you is that logic won't work with him, and the pouty "fine, I'll leave you alone then" schtick will most likely not last very long. He'll be back, and you need a plan for when that happens. Personally, I would have hubby MEET me for lunch and make a big show of taking him around, introducing him to everyone, etc., then having him say something like, "Oh, so THIS is Jim" in a meaningful tone. Depending on your hubby's character and sense of humor, there are a number of ways you could play this that might make him decide to play elsewhere. Yes, it's passive-aggressive... but the aggressive approach I'd normally advocate can blow up in your face in a big way here.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Feb 2, 2011 17:10:08 GMT -5
Having just come in to this conversation, going back to the original post, it appears that the OP has not discussed this with her boss, his boss, or HR. His work directly effects her deals, and he's good at it, so his boss doesn't audit (meaning he could screw the OP's bonuses), but no where did it say the boss had been told about the inappropriate behavior. (And no where has she mentioned that she can't go to HR or her boss, or that trying to do so would be ineffective. Those have been other people's assumptions.) The second update mentioned that he has taken OP's deals from other people's queues. There is going to be documentation for this in the system, and will show a pattern. This, more than anything else, is documentable proof of the inappropriate behavior. Despite the 3rd update, OP has a very clear course of action (that doesn't involve her husband beating anyone up or acting like the stereotypical "hysterical" woman). She needs to have a meeting with her boss and HR. Her company's harrassment policies (sexual and otherwise) should be easily accessible (this is usually required by law - meaning they're posted in a break room or available via intranet, or both), and go to the meeting prepared to discuss the ways in which this young man has violated the policy. In addition, the EEOC and every state have anti-retaliation laws that should protect her, or give her a status to sue, if she is punished in any way for bringing these concerns to management. The only person whose job should be at risk in this situation is the offender.
IF HR and the OP's boss do not respond to the allegations, then the OP should engage an attorney. The local EEOC offices should be able to recommend one who specializes in this type of case. Whether she wants to remain in the job, given those circumstances is her choice, but once again, anti-retaliation laws should protect her, and with a lawyer already on board, would just increase the payout she could ask for in a suit.
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