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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 13:56:50 GMT -5
But either way the reaction to what he does with the police is going to be viewed as negative. If it's a mature adult reaction, then it's abnormal. If it's a child-like reaction then it's going to be "he always fakes being the innocent little child". I understand that it's due to his background. What I'm saying though is that due to his background, he's in a cant-win situation in regards to his reaction. Adult or child-like there's going to be some way to knock it.
I don't think his reaction was a mature adult reaction or a child-like reaction. I do think it was abnormal, especially for a 12yo. And I think his Mom being proud of it was abnormal.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 5, 2012 13:58:00 GMT -5
Right, so like I said, there's nothing he could have done that you'd have been proud of, so he can't win no matter what his reaction is.
Why on earth should he win? Why should any parent be proud of how their kid handled being chased by the cops?
Sorry but I am not going to be proud of how my kid handles being caught after making an extremely stupid decision that could have resulted in very serious consequences.
She shouldn't have made the original stupid decision to begin with. How they handle it after the fact, is moot IMO.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 5, 2012 13:58:44 GMT -5
SHOULD he "win"? The kid was being chased by the police. Apparently he DID "win" with his mother, but therein lies part of the problem.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 5, 2012 13:59:22 GMT -5
Maybe because he's smart enough to know, from either personal or peer experience, that there isn't much a police officer can do to him for a simple trespass except call his mommy? And he's smart enough to know mommy will pat him on the back for being so "grown up" in his dealings with the police?
I'm with you. I see potential problems oozing out of that kid.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 5, 2012 14:03:24 GMT -5
If there is a "proper" reaction to this my guess would be you do the same as you would in a traffic stop. I'd sit on the curb, say "yes sir, no sir" keep my hands and the air gun visible and ask to call my parents.
Well . . .I take that back, I'd probably be praying like crazy that nobody called my parents because what I'd have to deal with when they arrive would be way worse than sitting around with the cops.
Causing a foot chase is not the appropriate reponse. How they handle being caught shouldn't even come into play.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 5, 2012 14:03:54 GMT -5
Because I think the fact that he wasn't scared indicates there may be a problem. He's not dumb, so it's not because he's too stupid to know he might be shot. Maybe he doesn't believe he can be shot. Not because he is dumb, but because teens often go through a period where they feel they are invunerable. Plus, he probably figures he isn't carrying a real gun & the cops won't shoot a kid. Pretty stupid logic, but might explain why he wasn't scared & ran. Although once caught a normal kid would be scared. Although some of that fear probably comes from what your parents will do when they find out. He knows his mom won't do anything and possibly thinks she can keep him out of trouble with the police, so what is there to fear? I still agree this kid has major problems, especially if several therapists have said so. But maybe the lack of fear is logical for a kid with a parent like that. ETA - I also agree there is no winning when dealing with the cops because you trepassed & then were involved in a police chase.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Oct 5, 2012 14:05:19 GMT -5
::So help me understand why a 12 year old should be scared when police with guns chase him down?::
Kids can be scared without shivering or crying or other outward signs that they are scared...or even admitting they are scared. Also plenty of non-stupid kids don't think through "I might get shot right now". I know plenty of kids that age who's coping mechanism is the exact opposite of "acting scared", it's to puff up.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 5, 2012 14:05:40 GMT -5
I think so too Angel. You aren't going to be afraid if you know that your mom is going to brag to the neighborhood about how well her little man did handling the fuzz. You'd probably consider yourself untouchable.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 14:06:59 GMT -5
I think running is a pretty tween/teen response. Not a good one, not a mature one. I was at a barn party that got busted when I was 16... running was a very popular option...
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Oct 5, 2012 14:07:58 GMT -5
SHOULD he "win"? The kid was being chased by the police. Apparently he DID "win" with his mother, but therein lies part of the problem. You can be upset at him for the overall situation without criticizing how he handled a specific aspect of it, particularly when he handled that particular aspect in a mature and adult way. That's like saying you're not proud of your child for stepping up and taking responsibility for the child he had at age 14. Yes you're pissed he got someone pregnant at 14, but that doesn't mean when he takes responsibility and acts mature you jump on him for THAT too just because you dislike the entire situation. You don't have to praise him for it, you don't even have to acknowledge it, but I don't think you can attack him for it by justifying that you'd attack him for any reaction he had.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 5, 2012 14:11:50 GMT -5
I can get running at a party and I can get in some instances it doesn't occur to you that the cop might shoot you.
DH was incredibly stupid during the mushroom hunting pull over. He came out of the woods and approached the car, surprising the sheriff. He didn't think about till I hollered at him to get his ass in the truck. I had noticed the sheriff putting his hand on his pistol.
If I cop approached me with gun already drawn, odds are pretty good he's pointing it at me because he's going to shoot my ass. I think even a 12 year old would grasp that.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 5, 2012 14:11:55 GMT -5
You can be upset at him for the overall situation without criticizing how he handled a specific aspect of it, particularly when he handled that particular aspect in a mature and adult way. I'm going to disagree that saying you are a citizen & asking for his lawyer was mature or adult in this particular situation. That is like insisting to see a lawyer & announcing you are a citizen with rights when getting pulled over for speeding. It sounds confrontational rather than respectful. Not mature IMO at all.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 5, 2012 14:14:30 GMT -5
Hoops, your use of the phrase "attack" him may be part of the disconnect here. I'm not attacking the kid for anything, nor do I think it would be helpful for a parent to attack their kid in this situation.
I'm just trying to figure out what I think of the behaviour, what I think an appropriate reaction might be and whether this is another red flag to add to the list.
FWIW, I'm tough with my kids, but would never do something that would be described as "attacking." We talk, there is sometimes punishment or removal of rewards, etc, but I rarely even have to raise my voice. Guidance, not attacks, are most effective. I'm interesting in being effective, not venting or feeling better.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 5, 2012 14:15:28 GMT -5
You can be upset at him for the overall situation without criticizing how he handled a specific aspect of it, particularly when he handled that particular aspect in a mature and adult way. I'm going to disagree that saying you are a citizen & asking for his lawyer was mature or adult in this particular situation. That is like insisting to see a lawyer & announcing you are a citizen with rights when getting pulled over for speeding. It sounds confrontational rather than respectful. Not mature IMO at all. That was my impression as well.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 5, 2012 14:16:16 GMT -5
I'm going to disagree with you as well hoops. There is a difference between accidently getting a girl knocked up and getting involved in a chase with the police. Acting mature in the face of a oopsie pregnancy is different than telling the cops you need a lawyer after they run your ass down.
There is nothing in the OP's scenario to be proud of, IMO.
That's like saying the guys on Cops should be proud of themselves because after they rammed the car into the pole they got out and laid face down on the ground with their hands above their heads.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 14:16:29 GMT -5
That's true... the gun aspect adds a whole dimension. I am surprised they didn't ditch the guns when they ran...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 5, 2012 14:16:59 GMT -5
I agree - that is normal. But were cops chasing you with guns? By the way - the neighbor did the right thing. If I saw kids/tweens/teens running through my yard holding one of these, I'd call the cops - even possibly if it was my own kid!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 14:17:29 GMT -5
So I'm thinking of hoops' point of view and trying to figure out what this kid may have learned from this. If the police chase you with guns because they don't know if your gun is real, show no remorse, tell them you have rights and ask for a lawyer and everything will be ok. Mom will even be proud and brag about how you handled your first police encounter so well after the jackass neighbor called the police on you for being in their yard with a gun.
King Kong........ ain't got NUTHIN on me.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Oct 5, 2012 14:22:36 GMT -5
::That's like saying the guys on Cops should be proud of themselves because after they rammed the car into the pole they got out and laid face down on the ground with their hands above their heads. ::
I disagree, what's happening here is that the guy got out, laid face down on the ground with their hands above their heads...and then people complain that they didn't act scared enough when they did it. I'm saying the thing to go after here isn't what he said to the police, the thing to go after are all the things he did incorrectly.
Complain about his trespassing, the fact he's carrying a realistic gun in the first place, running away, etc. Don't complain about the one aspect he handled correctly.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 5, 2012 14:24:33 GMT -5
"King Kong........ ain't got NUTHIN on me."
And mom cant' handle the truth!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 5, 2012 14:27:19 GMT -5
I'm saying the thing to go after here isn't what he said to the police, the thing to go after are all the things he did incorrectly. Is that what you were trying to say? Geesh, the way you explain things sometimes I'd swear you were Virgil. In that case I agree with you. But I still think it is extremely odd/disturbing that the mother is telling milee how proud she is of how her son handled the cops. That's not a normal reaction for a parent as far as I can tell. I am pretty sure my dad's response would have ben "you're going to wish the cops arrested you after I'm thru with your ass" He certainly would not have been telling the neighbors how well I conducted myself after being chased by cops with guns drawn. The cop chase is bad enough but the mother's reaction blows me away.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 5, 2012 14:28:12 GMT -5
It seems like you're inferring that we think it was WRONG for him to react that way... He was "correct" to assert his rights.
But in the context of a twelve-year-old boy who has just been chased by the police, it's an atypical (and - given the rest of Milee's info - troubling) reaction.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 5, 2012 14:28:17 GMT -5
I think this points out how much we don't know about this interaction. Maybe zander embellished it a bit to his mom, and then she embellished it a bit to Milee? Definitely the case that we will never know the whole story. My understanding is that the police released the boys to one of the other neighbors - two of the neighbor's sons were also involved. It was the neighbor describing much of the encounter and unclear to me if the neighbor witnessed it or was just relaying what the police said. Many possibilities for misinterpretation.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 5, 2012 14:30:38 GMT -5
LOL - yup.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 14:31:55 GMT -5
Forget the kid, forget the context of who he is on a daily basis.
If my child were in this situation, I would not fault him for asking for a parent/lawyer. But I damned sure wouldn't be calling up my friends to brag about his behavior.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Oct 5, 2012 14:35:09 GMT -5
::But in the context of a twelve-year-old boy who has just been chased by the police, it's an atypical (and - given the rest of Milee's info - troubling) reaction.::
Any reaction he has is going to be troubling though. The way he acted is troubling. If he reacted as most children would (crying and shaken) then it would be troubling because milee has pointed out he "acts" that way sometimes if he thinks it will get him out of trouble. There doesn't seem to be much in terms of non-troubling actions. That's what happens with troubled kids though, any action they take is seen as disturbing or troubled because the context of their actions already assumed "trouble".
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Oct 5, 2012 14:37:14 GMT -5
If you've got a kid who's always in trouble I would assume you will grab onto anything they do well to brag about. Not that you should, but I'd also say there's a difference between "good job son, you did the right thing", and feeling like you can say something positive about him to others because you're just happy he didn't fire off a couple of softshot rounds at the cops.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 5, 2012 14:38:12 GMT -5
I'm judging his mother more than his kid. That may not be any better.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 5, 2012 14:38:57 GMT -5
There is a difference between a 12 year old crying or being upset, and a 12 year old acting like a 3 year old.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 5, 2012 14:43:01 GMT -5
I'm judging his mother more than his kid. That may not be any better.
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