Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell

[Reckless Roselia]

Sept 19, 2012 15:01:58 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Sept 19, 2012 14:42:38 GMT -5 Reckless Roselia said:

God likes to play chess as I see it.

Cool, so do I. Maybe we'll have a game at the company picnic.

You'll find God in the Casino rolling the dice.

[weltschmerz]

Well, we do know God likes to gamble. Look at Job.

[femmefatale]

Sept 19, 2012 15:11:47 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Sept 19, 2012 15:07:17 GMT -5 @femmefatale said:

I think you're right and Ill second that.

Please!!! We shouldn't fight. We are on such a good roll with a civil discussion. Don't leave, Apple.

Oh, I see....I'm just chopped liver!

[femmefatale]

Apps can come back. I have nothing further to say on the subject. I don't have to debate anything to know how I feel. It's just sometimes fun to come in and answer questions and have civilized discussion without pointing fingers.

Exiting now.

[Reckless Roselia]

Maybe we can gamble our way into heaven?

God sure loves to deal. Maybe blackmail can do a trick or two.

[mrsdutt]

INNER said: One of his ideas was that religion is a form of alienation. 'God' is to be understood as the essence of humanity externalised and projected onto an alien reality. The characteristics attributed to 'God' - love, wisdom, benevolence etc. - these are actually human characteristics and the more we enrich them in 'God', the more we impoverish ourselves of them.

And the masses fell for this BS. Holy Cow. (not meant to offend anyone) Good thing we can see the end result of that theory!

[Green Eyed Lady]

How about a child who grew up in another faith on the other side of the world? As the child grows into adulthood, he usually dons the religious cloak of his parents. If the parents "didn't get the job done" right, according to different religious interpretations, will that person be barred from heaven? He wasn't washed in the blood of the Lamb, after all.

When I said "get the job done", I was referring to arranging his/her baptism - not his/her entire religious education. Once a person is an adult - or able to consent - they are able to arrange their own baptism if that is what they desire. If you are asking "can a 37 year old not be baptized and just blame the parents for their oversight", I would think not. The path to Heaven, to me, is clear. There are no "what abouts" or "what ifs". It's clear to me. Those who don't follow that path will not have eternal life.

That person on the other side of the world most likely has a clear path also. Is it all one and the same path with maybe roadmaps in different languages(ideologies, tenets, whatever)? I have no idea. I do not know who will be barred from Heaven and who won't be barred from Heaven. I will never say that anyone will be barred from Heaven. It is not for me to say. There is only one Judge and I ain't Him!

[beags]

Sept 19, 2012 14:42:10 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

It is what it is

And what is that? The bible has been re-written and changed many times over the centuries.

www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/

It's like anything else of its kind. The bible was written years and years after Jesus walked the earth.

This means that it was written by stories passed down from generation to generation until someone put it in print . . thus providing their interpretation of the events.

There are many different versions of the bible just as there are many different religions claiming to know exactly what God wanted.

Truth be known . . none of us know.

The main stories are there, but they told in different ways . . such as Cain and Able, Sodom and Gomorrah (probably spelled wrong, but I don't cate), Adam and Eve, Moses, the stories of David, Joseph who was sold by his brothers, Jesus birth and death, his cousin John the baptist, etc . . .

Every bible has the stories . . . as do most religions . . but they are told different.

That is due to the information being passed down for years before it was written.

Even now, many will interpret the bible in different ways. The term "spare the rod, spoil the child" is one example of how people interpret its meaning differently.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

It's like anything else of its kind. The bible was written years and years after Jesus walked the earth.

Not all of it.


www.about-jesus.org/bible.htm

• The books of the Bible were written by about 40 different people, including prophets, poets and historians, within a 1500-year period, between the time of Moses about 3400 years ago, up until the death of the Apostle John about 1900 years ago.

• The New Testament contains the four Gospels, which refers to the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. It also contains Epistles, or "letters," that were written by Peter, Paul, James and other followers of Jesus. It also contains the book of Revelation.

• The books of the Bible are divided into chapters, and the chapters are divided into verses. As an example, John 3:16 would refer to the book of John, chapter 3, verse 16, which says: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

• The Old Testament has many prophecies about Israel, the surrounding countries, the world, the Messiah, and the Hebrew people, who also are known as the Israelites and as the Jews. The books of the Old Testament were written before the time of Jesus.

[beags]

Sept 19, 2012 14:03:01 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Sept 19, 2012 13:57:51 GMT -5 @shooby said:

So atheists dont' fight ? Um, yeah?

Not about whose God is better, wiser, stronger, bigger. Or more real.

There's only one God . . . . He just goes by many different names.

[mrsdutt]

Sept 19, 2012 14:38:13 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I surely don't believe that God would reject a child simply because his/her parents didn't get the job done or he/she died before this could be accomplished. That makes no sense, IMO.
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How about a child who grew up in another faith on the other side of the world? As the child grows into adulthood, he usually dons the religious cloak of his parents. If the parents "didn't get the job done" right, according to different religious interpretations, will that person be barred from heaven? He wasn't washed in the blood of the Lamb, after all.

I explained this to you.

[Reckless Roselia]

Sept 19, 2012 15:36:56 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

It's like anything else of its kind. The bible was written years and years after Jesus walked the earth.

Not all of it.


www.about-jesus.org/bible.htm

• The books of the Bible were written by about 40 different people, including prophets, poets and historians, within a 1500-year period, between the time of Moses about 3400 years ago, up until the death of the Apostle John about 1900 years ago.

• The New Testament contains the four Gospels, which refers to the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. It also contains Epistles, or "letters," that were written by Peter, Paul, James and other followers of Jesus. It also contains the book of Revelation.

• The books of the Bible are divided into chapters, and the chapters are divided into verses. As an example, John 3:16 would refer to the book of John, chapter 3, verse 16, which says: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

• The Old Testament has many prophecies about Israel, the surrounding countries, the world, the Messiah, and the Hebrew people, who also are known as the Israelites and as the Jews. The books of the Old Testament were written before the time of Jesus.

;D

[mrsdutt]

Sept 19, 2012 14:53:59 GMT -5 @joey said:

In my opinion the bible has a convoluted, messy history, full of contradictions, horrors and absurdities. It has no more evidence of being from "God" than any other so called holy book. Without blind belief in the Bible, there is no evidence for the supernatural claims of Christianity. The miraculous claims are always based on anecdote. There is never any evidence, only tall tales.

If you want to believe, that is fine. I don't want to contribute to this thread anymore because it never ends well when we fight about god.

You may leave if you wish (free will), but I don't see much antagonism happening here.

[Reckless Roselia]

Sept 19, 2012 15:37:54 GMT -5 beags said:

Sept 19, 2012 14:03:01 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Not about whose God is better, wiser, stronger, bigger. Or more real.

There's only one God . . . . He just goes by many different names.

Yeah Beags, that's what I personally believe in too.

[mrsdutt]

Sept 19, 2012 14:31:09 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Sept 19, 2012 13:50:46 GMT -5 swamp said:

I think Catholicism changed the teachings on that one and babies can now go to heaven.

I know. I find it interesting that a religion can change tenets like I change underwear.

I'm not aware of any changes. Everything evolves, Weltz. In one way or another.

[mrsdutt]

Sept 19, 2012 14:53:59 GMT -5 @joey said:

In my opinion the bible has a convoluted, messy history, full of contradictions, horrors and absurdities. It has no more evidence of being from "God" than any other so called holy book. Without blind belief in the Bible, there is no evidence for the supernatural claims of Christianity. The miraculous claims are always based on anecdote. There is never any evidence, only tall tales.
If you want to believe, that is fine. I don't want to contribute to this thread anymore because it never ends well when we fight about god.

The saints might disagree with you.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I'm not aware of any changes. Everything evolves, Weltz. In one way or another.

Evolution IS change.

[Deleted]

Sept 19, 2012 15:20:28 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

And the masses fell for this BS. Holy Cow. (not meant to offend anyone) Good thing we can see the end result of that theory!

Well, I-d, we haven't reached the end result of that theory any more than we have reached the end result of any other theory. It has influenced (and continues to influence) directly through its advocates, and indirectly through those who have rejected it. It has become a part of our intellectual history and thus has gained a certain immortality.

Once upon a time 'the masses' were somewhat more class conscious than the educated idiots we have today and - yes - some of them were quite taken with Marx's idea of economic alienation. In fact the suppression of this idea, within the public psyche, has required a great amount of time, effort, and money on behalf of ruling Western elites. Feuerbach's idea of religious alienation, however, was something a little different. This element had to be enforced by said governments and so we can probably assume that it was/is an idea less in tune with people's inherent ideals.

So, no, they didn't really 'fall for it', although not for any lack of reason on Feuerbach's part -as your own response seems to suggest.

Sept 19, 2012 15:17:54 GMT -5 @femmefatale said:

Oh, I see....I'm just chopped liver!

I like chopped liver.

[mrsdutt]

Sept 19, 2012 15:56:48 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

I'm not aware of any changes. Everything evolves, Weltz. In one way or another.

Evolution IS change.

Ya got me!

[femmefatale]

I like chopped liver.

Thank you.

[beags]

Sept 19, 2012 13:27:53 GMT -5 @femmefatale said:

Sept 19, 2012 13:25:03 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I don't know what religions you are speaking of, but the Christians do not believe that, or if they do, I have never heard of any. I think it is, that we are pure until we are old enough to know our own way, ya know? It is then, that we have to be responsible.
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The bible states, over and over again, that we are all born in sin.
I haven't read that children are pure until they're seven or eight.

Please find me a scripture where it says we are born sinful creatures. I have never read that, weltz.

Romans chapter 5 go to verse 12 (In Adam all have sinned)

[Reckless Roselia]

Sept 19, 2012 16:09:15 GMT -5 beags said:

Sept 19, 2012 13:27:53 GMT -5 @femmefatale said:

Please find me a scripture where it says we are born sinful creatures. I have never read that, weltz.

Romans chapter 5 go to verse 12 (In Adam all have sinned)

lol!

[beags]

Sept 19, 2012 15:48:46 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

What would happen to all the religions if one day we discovered that there was no separation between us, each personally, and god? There would be no, "He's there and I'm here.... he does this for you and not me.... he tells you this, but tells me that..... he punishes you, but not me...."
Just curious to thoughts on this.

That's the problem we haven't reached that point yet.

For the christians .. . if you follow the teachings in the new testament where God forgives all and we shall not cast the first stone unless we are without sin . . . .why all the I'm better than you are?

Whether believers or not, we are not better than the other. We are the same. There are people who believe in God who do evil things, just as there are those who don't believe that do evil things.

Fact is, believer or not, not a single one of us measure up. Not a single one of us is without faults.


We as a society will always say I am better than you.


When we start following the golden rule .. . treat others as you would like to be treated . . perhaps then we will all get along.

[weltschmerz]

Evolution IS change.
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And this is a nice segue into our next topic. In this corner, wearing the red trunks, is Creationism! In the other corner, wearing the blue trunks....say hello to Evolution!

[beags]

Sept 19, 2012 16:10:55 GMT -5 Reckless Roselia said:

Sept 19, 2012 16:09:15 GMT -5 beags said:

Romans chapter 5 go to verse 12 (In Adam all have sinned)

lol!

It took me forever to find that in grandma's bible. lol

[beags]

Sept 19, 2012 16:14:37 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Evolution IS change.
------------
And this is a nice segue into our next topic. In this corner, wearing the red trunks, is Creationism! In the other corner, wearing the blue trunks....say hello to Evolution!

they both have their problems.

[beags]

the evolution/creation battle

the abortion battle

dems vs pubs


I wonder which gets more knock down, dirty, and bloody?

[Green Eyed Lady]

And this is a nice segue into our next topic. In this corner, wearing the red trunks, is Creationism! In the other corner, wearing the blue trunks....say hello to Evolution!

Sorry. The devil wears red. You have them mixed up.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Sorry. The devil wears red. You have them mixed up.

The Devil Wears Prada. ;D

[Green Eyed Lady]

Of course! I forgot about that!

I have no idea what Prada is either!