Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I would imagine that God is a fan of music. You too Roselia, have a good sleep..

[mrsdutt]

Sept 17, 2012 21:59:55 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I don't know, I just never turned to God in those times. I don't expect other's to get me out of my state of mind. I do it. Financial situations . . God isn't going to get you out of that. You get yourself out of that. If that means two jobs then it means working two jobs. (I went up to three jobs at one time . . that was nuts) I couldn't sit around and wait for God to throw me money.
-------------------
But....but....late at night, on the teevee, Peter Popoff promises me loads of cash! My debts will disappear, my mortgage will be paid, and I'll get untold riches in the mail via fat cheques from unknown sources. All I have to do is get his Miracle Spring Water, and voila!

OMG, If you didn't post a picure I would have thought you made up that name.

Popoff,

[mrsdutt]

Sept 17, 2012 22:32:13 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

That guy should be shot. He's taking money from people who could least afford it. Even after he was exposed as a fraud, people still flock to him and lap it up. I don't get it.

He's preying on people who are desperate and / or uneducated.
There's a special place for people like this.

[busymom]

Roselia: I like your analogy using a rose. So if I may:

In my belief, it is the devil who allows your finger to be pricked by the rose. It is God that heals your finger.

I love all of the deep thinking that's coming out on this thread!

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2012 23:03:32 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

The point is, this guy is using religion, miracles & promises of monetary gifts as his magnet to draw these people in. The "miracles he shows are staged and phony - as are the testimonials. And he even quotes biblical passages and shouts "praise the Lord" or "Amen" while hawking his so-called "miracle" water or showing someone magically rise from their wheelchair and walk - or run up & down the aisles. It should be outlawed. He's a disgrace - and living high on the hog off the money people are gullible enough to fork over.

Yes, this much was understood from reading Weltz's first post on the matter, Lassie, very kind of you to restate it though. It always intrigues me when a person tries to insist on what the point is… it is certainly one point, yes, an obvious one at that, but perhaps there is room to suggest others.

Unfortunately it takes at least two people for exploitation to occur, and preying on the fears and insecurities of the weak-minded is hardly the exclusive territory of Mr Popoff. I'd suggest that such a strategy accounts for a large percentage of the adverts we are subjected to on a daily basis. Most of what you've suggested above, for instance, could be reinterpreted and applied to the cosmetics industry, and it appals me no less. Some people are coerced, others aren't. The point, here at least, is that they have the freedom to choose; they might not choose in a way that you think best for them, but that is their prerogative.

[mrsdutt]

Sept 18, 2012 0:27:32 GMT -5 Reckless Roselia said:

I know a kid that was born very disabled and writes Children's books. I know a blind person just won Master Chef. I know that 2pac was a crack baby and he moved on to become an influence.

So there are advantages of being disabled? Or is that a free ticket to heaven? I once learnt that disabled people are those loved by God and will enter heaven easily or quite quickly after their deaths because God loves them to test them with disability. A screwed up notion in my mind.

So, if I get pricked by a rose, do I accept that as a blessing by God? Or a curse?

Rose: What I know is we were never promised a rose garden (no pun intended - well it is a bit funny anyway) The God I know is interested in all parts of us, but He knows the spirit is the most important because that's what lasts an eternity. My son is disabled from the chemo and full body radiation he received, but he's productive and content. His attitude has always been mature and understanding. I, personally don't think disabilities are from God, but rather He allows them to serve a greater purpose. We can learn things from the challenged.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2012 8:51:07 GMT -5 @devianity said:

Sept 17, 2012 23:03:32 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

The point is, this guy is using religion, miracles & promises of monetary gifts as his magnet to draw these people in. The "miracles he shows are staged and phony - as are the testimonials. And he even quotes biblical passages and shouts "praise the Lord" or "Amen" while hawking his so-called "miracle" water or showing someone magically rise from their wheelchair and walk - or run up & down the aisles. It should be outlawed. He's a disgrace - and living high on the hog off the money people are gullible enough to fork over.

Yes, this much was understood from reading Weltz's first post on the matter, Lassie, very kind of you to restate it though. It always intrigues me when a person tries to insist on what the point is… it is certainly one point, yes, an obvious one at that, but perhaps there is room to suggest others.

Unfortunately it takes at least two people for exploitation to occur, and preying on the fears and insecurities of the weak-minded is hardly the exclusive territory of Mr Popoff. I'd suggest that such a strategy accounts for a large percentage of the adverts we are subjected to on a daily basis. Most of what you've suggested above, for instance, could be reinterpreted and applied to the cosmetics industry, and it appals me no less. Some people are coerced, others aren't. The point, here at least, is that they have the freedom to choose; they might not choose in a way that you think best for them, but that is their prerogative.

What came first? The false prophet or the fool?

[mrsdutt]

AHAM said: How would you like it if the things you created continued to piss in your corn flakes?

Spoken by a true manly man!

[mrsdutt]

WELT said: I actually felt sick to my stomach at the blatant lying and hawking of finacial miracles to poor people.

Your reaction is called discernment. Discernment comes from God.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2012 9:35:09 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

WELT said: I actually felt sick to my stomach at the blatant lying and hawking of finacial miracles to poor people.

Your reaction is called discernment. Discernment comes from God.

[/b]

[mrsdutt]

Sept 18, 2012 0:31:18 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

What do you think of Darwin's Theory of Evolution? Or his writings about Natural Selection - in relation to the evolution theory? How life has evolved from mere microbes over time immeasurable to what we are today - not just humans - all living things - plants and animals alike.

I've studied Biology and it's fascinating. And it helps to understand what Darwin was talking about.

I think it is faulty. There is basic merit to it in that we do evolve according to our environment. Darwin himself said he had no idea how far his theory would influence science and general mindset. We must keep in mind it's a theory, as much of science is.
I think we're prettier now! ;D

[mrsdutt]

Sept 18, 2012 8:51:07 GMT -5 @devianity said:

Sept 17, 2012 23:03:32 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

The point is, this guy is using religion, miracles & promises of monetary gifts as his magnet to draw these people in. The "miracles he shows are staged and phony - as are the testimonials. And he even quotes biblical passages and shouts "praise the Lord" or "Amen" while hawking his so-called "miracle" water or showing someone magically rise from their wheelchair and walk - or run up & down the aisles. It should be outlawed. He's a disgrace - and living high on the hog off the money people are gullible enough to fork over.

Yes, this much was understood from reading Weltz's first post on the matter, Lassie, very kind of you to restate it though. It always intrigues me when a person tries to insist on what the point is… it is certainly one point, yes, an obvious one at that, but perhaps there is room to suggest others.

Unfortunately it takes at least two people for exploitation to occur, and preying on the fears and insecurities of the weak-minded is hardly the exclusive territory of Mr Popoff. I'd suggest that such a strategy accounts for a large percentage of the adverts we are subjected to on a daily basis. Most of what you've suggested above, for instance, could be reinterpreted and applied to the cosmetics industry, and it appals me no less. Some people are coerced, others aren't. The point, here at least, is that they have the freedom to choose; they might not choose in a way that you think best for them, but that is their prerogative.

Inner is looking at the big picture. He's absoluely right on.
AGAIN, you ol' smarty pants!

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2012 9:32:09 GMT -5 @joey said:

What came first? The false prophet or the fool?

Hmm… indeed, I suspect the foolish have always been with us; how else could the false prophet's seed take root without the bed of soil they provide?

[mrsdutt]

Sept 18, 2012 9:32:09 GMT -5 @joey said:

Sept 18, 2012 8:51:07 GMT -5 @devianity said:

Yes, this much was understood from reading Weltz's first post on the matter, Lassie, very kind of you to restate it though. It always intrigues me when a person tries to insist on what the point is… it is certainly one point, yes, an obvious one at that, but perhaps there is room to suggest others.

Unfortunately it takes at least two people for exploitation to occur, and preying on the fears and insecurities of the weak-minded is hardly the exclusive territory of Mr Popoff. I'd suggest that such a strategy accounts for a large percentage of the adverts we are subjected to on a daily basis. Most of what you've suggested above, for instance, could be reinterpreted and applied to the cosmetics industry, and it appals me no less. Some people are coerced, others aren't. The point, here at least, is that they have the freedom to choose; they might not choose in a way that you think best for them, but that is their prerogative.

What came first? The false prophet or the fool?

If there were no fools desperate people, false prophets wouldn't have a business.

[mrsdutt]

Sept 18, 2012 9:36:54 GMT -5 @joey said:

Sept 18, 2012 9:35:09 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

WELT said: I actually felt sick to my stomach at the blatant lying and hawking of finacial miracles to poor people.

Your reaction is called discernment. Discernment comes from God.

[/b]


[/quote]

Could you be more explicit?

[Reckless Roselia]

Sept 18, 2012 8:23:25 GMT -5 busymom said:

Roselia: I like your analogy using a rose. So if I may:

In my belief, it is the devil who allows your finger to be pricked by the rose. It is God that heals your finger.

I love all of the deep thinking that's coming out on this thread!

Hello Busymum,

Thank you, some of my favourite analogies actually do cluster around roses. It's in my name.

I would partly agree with you that yes, it's the devil or human temptations that allow some to be pricked by a rose but who allows that devil or those temptations to flow around freely to cause nothing but hurt and pain from that rose? God. If God is the first cause then He's the God that gives both sorrow and happiness.

[Green Eyed Lady]

If there were no fools desperate people, false prophets wouldn't have a business.

We've all seen or read about people who have done some pretty desperate things in desperate situations. Like eating dead people to keep from starving. Instead of calling those people names, I feel so badly for them. I cannot fathom being desperate enough to fall for something like that, but I suppose in times of crisis, it's any port in a storm.

[weltschmerz]

OMG, If you didn't post a picure I would have thought you made up that name.
-----------------
Unfortunately, he's very real, indeed.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Popoff

[femmefatale]

Sept 18, 2012 9:50:05 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

Sept 18, 2012 9:36:54 GMT -5 @joey said:

[/b]


[/quote]

Could you be more explicit?[/quote]Lmao!! ;D

[mrsdutt]

The icon means LMAO, but why did the poster put that there? I was serious. Me thinks she is making fun of me??? Hmmm. Oh well. Life can have it's glitches.

[femmefatale]

Sept 18, 2012 10:18:17 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

The icon means LMAO, but why did the poster put that there? I was serious. Me thinks she is making fun of me??? Hmmm. Oh well. Life can have it's glitches.

I know what the emoti means, ld. I was laughing at you saying, "could you be more explicit"... ;D

[Reckless Roselia]

Sept 18, 2012 9:29:39 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

Sept 18, 2012 0:27:32 GMT -5 Reckless Roselia said:

So there are advantages of being disabled? Or is that a free ticket to heaven? I once learnt that disabled people are those loved by God and will enter heaven easily or quite quickly after their deaths because God loves them to test them with disability. A screwed up notion in my mind.

So, if I get pricked by a rose, do I accept that as a blessing by God? Or a curse?

Rose: What I know is we were never promised a rose garden (no pun intended - well it is a bit funny anyway) The God I know is interested in all parts of us, but He knows the spirit is the most important because that's what lasts an eternity. My son is disabled from the chemo and full body radiation he received, but he's productive and content. His attitude has always been mature and understanding. I, personally don't think disabilities are from God, but rather He allows them to serve a greater purpose. We can learn things from the challenged.

Good morning Idin,

Firstly, I thought God promised us a Garden if we followed Christ's teachings - be it a Garden of Roses, Honey, Wine etc etc.

In my religion it is that if you are suffering from a terrible fate then it has two causes. A) God is punishing you for your deeds and/or B) God is testing you because He likes you.

So whenever I am going through difficult times I am confused as to what God is doing or what He wants. I cannot read His mind.

I am sorry to hear about your son's disability. I am sure that as a parent no one likes their child to be disabled. But I am happy that he's positive towards life and mature.

Take care.

[mrsdutt]

Sept 18, 2012 10:21:24 GMT -5 @femmefatale said:

Sept 18, 2012 10:18:17 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

The icon means LMAO, but why did the poster put that there? I was serious. Me thinks she is making fun of me??? Hmmm. Oh well. Life can have it's glitches.

I know what the emoti means, ld. I was laughing at you saying, "could you be more explicit"... ;D

OH! Sorry. I know you know that I know that you know!!!!

I feel rather impish today!

[mrsdutt]

ROSE: The profile avatar is in response to your request. It wasn;t so difficult.

[Reckless Roselia]

Sept 18, 2012 10:25:30 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

ROSE: The profile avatar is in response to your request. It wasn;t so difficult.

Hmmm, I give you 9/10 for your choice of avatar (upon my request of having one). It's very illuminate and makes you stand out. I'm glad you've dressed up like some of the ladies here. But don't do it regularly or else I may get you confused.

[mrsdutt]

I have another question for us to ponder. Do you believe there are guardian angels? This would refer to a personal angel that has been assigned to each individual. In addition, do you think angels assist us when we're in trouble? How (what avenues do they use) do they help us out? If you believe in angels, what types are there? Warrior? Guardian? Helpers? Whatever you think would be interesting to hear (to me).

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2012 9:54:36 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

If there were no fools desperate people, false prophets wouldn't have a business.

We've all seen or read about people who have done some pretty desperate things in desperate situations. Like eating dead people to keep from starving. Instead of calling those people names, I feel so badly for them. I cannot fathom being desperate enough to fall for something like that, but I suppose in times of crisis, it's any port in a storm.

Please don't change my words. TYVM.
Desparate and foolish are entirely different things.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2012 10:31:49 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

I have another question for us to ponder. Do you believe there are guardian angels? This would refer to a personal angel that has been assigned to each individual. In addition, do you think angels assist us when we're in trouble? How (what avenues do they use) do they help us out? If you believe in angels, what types are there? Warrior? Guardian? Helpers? Whatever you think would be interesting to hear (to me).

I think that if you are open to it yes you can get guidance at difficult times in your life or not.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Sept 18, 2012 10:40:26 GMT -5 @joey said:

Sept 18, 2012 9:54:36 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

We've all seen or read about people who have done some pretty desperate things in desperate situations. Like eating dead people to keep from starving. Instead of calling those people names, I feel so badly for them. I cannot fathom being desperate enough to fall for something like that, but I suppose in times of crisis, it's any port in a storm.

Please don't change my words. TYVM.
Desparate and foolish are entirely different things.

I didn't change your words. I copied another post. Please don't accuse me of something I didn't do. TYVM.

And, yes. Desperate and foolish ARE entirely different things, and I'm not qualified to judge who is desperate and who is foolish. Therefore, I won't make any assumptions.

I knew a mother who was so desperate to find a cure for her cancer so that she wouldn't leave her children without a mom that she went to all kinds of quacky websites and ordered all kinds of strange stuff. Desperate or foolish? One is a horrible state of mind. The other is rather insulting.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Sept 18, 2012 10:01:54 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

OMG, If you didn't post a picure I would have thought you made up that name.
-----------------
Unfortunately, he's very real, indeed.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Popoff

What's pathetic, is that even after being exposed as a fraud and charleton, and bilking people out of millions, he's still allowed to run his scam - using people's faith in miracles as his drawing card.

He's as big a disgrace and phony as Jim & Tammy Faye Baker.