Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell

[busymom]

Again, I'm posting about my own personal beliefs & my personal experiences:

I've never personally believed that when something bad happened to me, that it was "God's Will" or God was trying to teach me something. After bad things happened, (perfect example, my DS's diagnosis of autism), people would come up to me that I didn't know very well, & offer me advice or refer me to someone who might be able to help. It's like I've been sent "God's little helpers" to get me thru, to the point where I feel I can handle things again. But, I see God in a kind way, not as a Spirit who slaps you down on a whim. I mean, really, can you think of anyone who really "deserves" to get some horrible disease, or some other tragedy?

As a parent with a special needs child, the one comment I just hate to hear is "God chose you", or "God knew you're the one who could handle this". Um, no. I didn't have the knowledge or the tools to deal with that. Over time, talking with knowledgeable people, and reading up, I learned how to handle things. My God couldn't be so cruel.

[mmhmm]

Sept 17, 2012 17:53:54 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

Sept 17, 2012 17:36:50 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Hmmm. I do believe we need a post bump.

What's a bump?

When a new post has been made and doesn't show up, making another post will sometimes get the missing post to show. That's what I meant by "bump".

[mmhmm]

Sept 17, 2012 18:09:15 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Sept 17, 2012 10:15:52 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Exactly - that's what the God Loving People thread is for - those who already believe and want to share their beliefs with each other.

This thread is for questioning religion not for trying to convert people or preach.

So, should those who believe in the "god energy" also exit the thread as well?

Did you read a post telling someone to exit the thread, Shoobs? If so, please point it out to me as I seem to have missed it.

[weltschmerz]

I don't know, I just never turned to God in those times. I don't expect other's to get me out of my state of mind. I do it. Financial situations . . God isn't going to get you out of that. You get yourself out of that. If that means two jobs then it means working two jobs. (I went up to three jobs at one time . . that was nuts) I couldn't sit around and wait for God to throw me money.
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But....but....late at night, on the teevee, Peter Popoff promises me loads of cash! My debts will disappear, my mortgage will be paid, and I'll get untold riches in the mail via fat cheques from unknown sources. All I have to do is get his Miracle Spring Water, and voila!

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

But....but....late at night, on the teevee, Peter Popoff promises me loads of cash! My debts will be disappear, my mortgage will be paid, and I'll get untold riches in the mail via fat cheques from unknown sources. All I have to do is get his Miracle Spring Water, and voila

.

And you know that Miracle Spring Water just has to work, because of all the people going on (ahem, I mean paid to go on) and giving testimonials to all the money they received after getting their miracle water in the mail (after four easy payments, of course).

[weltschmerz]

That guy should be shot. He's taking money from people who could least afford it. Even after he was exposed as a fraud, people still flock to him and lap it up. I don't get it.

[weltschmerz]

Sept 17, 2012 22:25:14 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

But....but....late at night, on the teevee, Peter Popoff promises me loads of cash! My debts will be disappear, my mortgage will be paid, and I'll get untold riches in the mail via fat cheques from unknown sources. All I have to do is get his Miracle Spring Water, and voila

.

And you know that Miracle Spring Water just has to work, because of all the people going on (ahem, I mean paid to go on) and giving testimonials to all the money they received after getting their miracle water in the mail (after four easy payments, of course).

Have you seen his show? I sat and watched it, mezmerized. I actually felt sick to my stomach at the blatant lying and hawking of finacial miracles to poor people.

[weltschmerz]

It's absolutely heartbreaking that people are allowed to get away with this.

[mmhmm]

Whaaaat?!? OMG, I am once again thrilled senseless I don't watch television!

[weltschmerz]

In 1985, Popoff came to national attention when he began campaigning for money to help smuggle Bibles into the Soviet Union. He claimed the Bibles would be tied to helium-filled balloons and sent wafting above the Iron Curtain.[6] The plan was found to be completely impractical and never took place. When he had to account for the money being spent, Popoff staged a burglary at his own headquarters. On subsequent broadcasts of his show, he would tearfully beg for more money to help repair the damage.[7]
**
During a 2008 interview, Randi explained that he and Shaw had recorded Liz Popoff using a racial slur to describe an African-American audience member to her husband and laughingly telling him to "...keep your hands off [her] tits ... I'm watching you." Randi further revealed that when a man dying from testicular cancer came before Popoff during a crusade, Liz Popoff and her aides were hysterically laughing at his visible tumor.[14]

On several occasions, Popoff would tell his revival attendees to "break free of the Devil" by throwing their medications onto the stage. Dozens of his followers would obey and throw away vital prescriptions for digitalis, nitroglycerine tablets, oral diabetes medication, and other unidentified pills.[15] Popoff's shows also featured audience members who were brought on stage in wheelchairs and then rose dramatically to walk without support. These were some of Popoff's most incredible "healings", but what believing audience members and television viewers did not know was that wheelchairs were used by Popoff to seat people who were already able to walk.[16]

In 1991, the NOVA episode "Secrets of the Psychics" aired footage of Popoff with his wife's radio transmission dubbed in. Since then, that episode was released on video to teach critical thinking.[17]
-wiki

Yes mmhmm, he's a real prince among men.
(And he lives like a fabulously wealthy prince)

[mmhmm]

Oh, good grief! People like this should be hanged by their thumbs in a hailstorm! While I find it very difficult to believe there are folks who will fall for this rot, I have to admit having read enough to know there are, indeed, such people. It's just plain sad that someone would be so uncaring and cruel as to play upon their weaknesses.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

It is sad - you can tell that most of the people in the audience are not only naive and gullible, but probably just scraping by and living hand-to-mouth.

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2012 22:50:54 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

It is sad - you can tell that most of the people in the audience are not only naive and gullible, but probably just scraping by and living hand-to-mouth.

Perhaps the two conditions are related in some way.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

The point is, this guy is using religion, miracles & promises of monetary gifts as his magnet to draw these people in. The "miracles he shows are staged and phony - as are the testimonials. And he even quotes biblical passages and shouts "praise the Lord" or "Amen" while hawking his so-called "miracle" water or showing someone magically rise from their wheelchair and walk - or run up & down the aisles. It should be outlawed. He's a disgrace - and living high on the hog off the money people are gullible enough to fork over.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sept 17, 2012 9:40:08 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Odd that the ones who claim to be strong believers are here high-fiving each other and ingoring what those who question religion or whether there is a god are saying. There already is a God Loving People thread for expressing their beliefs - if they have proof or evidence to present, I'd like to hear it, but so far they haven't provided anything for the other side to think about or consider.

SL, do you mean? In developing the theory of relativity, Einstein realized that the equations led to the conclusion that the universe had a beginning. He didn't like the idea of a beginning, because he thought one would have to conclude that the universe was created by God. So, he added a cosmological constant to the equation to attempt to get rid of the beginning. He said this was one of the worst mistakes of his life. Of course, the results of Edwin Hubble confirmed that the universe was expanding and had a beginning at some point in the past. So, Einstein became a deist -

www.godandscience.org/apologetics/einstein.html

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sept 17, 2012 9:52:23 GMT -5 Reckless Roselia said:

Sept 17, 2012 0:49:48 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Yet JC was Jewish. Werid huh? Is life fair Roselia?

Life is unfair, Aham, indeed you are correct but that doesn't mean that the Creator has to be that of an unfair nature. Is it fair if God creates disabled children? If so, why is it fair and if not, why not?

How can an All Powerful God have gender or a race? Why the partiality to the other races?

If you're implying that God is a Jew then does that mean only the Jews will enter the Heaven?

It doesn't? How would you like it if the things you created continued to piss in your corn flakes? I know part of life is dealing with obstacles and how you deal with them affects your future. It's all about personal choice.

I know a kid that was born very disabled and writes Children's books. I know a blind person just won Master Chef. I know that 2pac was a crack baby and he moved on to become an influence.

I didn't mean that God has a race, just that I find it interesting that he created a Jewish lad to be the Messiah.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sept 17, 2012 10:20:14 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

If you're implying that God is a Jew then does that mean only the Jews will enter the Heaven?
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Actually, the Jewish faith posits that anyone can get into heaven. You don't have to be Jewish.

Yes! Exactly Weltz!!! We are all God's chosen people, the Earth is the promised land, and we must look outside ourselves to make the "on Earth as it is in heaven" part a reality.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sept 17, 2012 16:34:54 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

INNER said: For instance, there are people - Christian by virtue of their adherence to Christian ideals - who don't necessarily want anything to do with the institutional aspects of Christianity -they may not care for the hierarchy of the Church, its delving into politics etc.


I am in total agreement with this statement. Well spoken, Inner.

and once again great thread ld!!

Wish I had more time during the day to take part fully. I don't like piling the posts on like this, but it's a really intresting thread.

[Reckless Roselia]

Sept 17, 2012 23:03:32 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

The point is, this guy is using religion, miracles & promises of monetary gifts as his magnet to draw these people in. The "miracles he shows are staged and phony - as are the testimonials. And he even quotes biblical passages and shouts "praise the Lord" or "Amen" while hawking his so-called "miracle" water or showing someone magically rise from their wheelchair and walk - or run up & down the aisles. It should be outlawed. He's a disgrace - and living high on the hog off the money people are gullible enough to fork over.

He should be locked behind bars. What a cheap act.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Agreed!

[Reckless Roselia]

I know a kid that was born very disabled and writes Children's books. I know a blind person just won Master Chef. I know that 2pac was a crack baby and he moved on to become an influence.

So there are advantages of being disabled? Or is that a free ticket to heaven? I once learnt that disabled people are those loved by God and will enter heaven easily or quite quickly after their deaths because God loves them to test them with disability. A screwed up notion in my mind.

So, if I get pricked by a rose, do I accept that as a blessing by God? Or a curse?

[Reckless Roselia]

Sept 18, 2012 0:23:59 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Agreed!

Where's my karma then? ;D

Speaking of 2 pac, it reminds me what fame can do to you. Did he really plan his own death or is that falling under the conspiracy umbrella? My lil bro when growing up would take 2 pac as his idol, but he's grown away from that silliness thanks God.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

What do you think of Darwin's Theory of Evolution? Or his writings about Natural Selection - in relation to the evolution theory? How life has evolved from mere microbes over time immeasurable to what we are today - not just humans - all living things - plants and animals alike.

I've studied Biology and it's fascinating. And it helps to understand what Darwin was talking about.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

When I reload Roselia. ;D

[weltschmerz]

I know that 2pac was a crack baby and he moved on to become an influence.
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Not a good influence, by any stretch of the imagination.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sept 18, 2012 0:31:18 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

What do you think of Darwin's Theory of Evolution? Or his writings about Natural Selection - in relation to the evolution theory? How life has evolved from mere microbes over time immeasurable to what we are today - not just humans - all living things - plants and animals alike.

I've studied Biology and it's fascinating. And it helps to understand what Darwin was talking about.

JMO SL, evolution is perfection.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sept 18, 2012 0:34:48 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I know that 2pac was a crack baby and he moved on to become an influence.
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Not a good influence, by any stretch of the imagination.

Depends on who you ask I guess, ruff life that guy had, to think he was able to get a message across is what amazes me.

[Reckless Roselia]

Another Tupac fan. ;D

You'll like this too, Aham,

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

YEP!!! That which does not kill me makes me stronger!!!

[Reckless Roselia]

I would believe God played music in heaven. Nice relaxing spiritual tunes. If there is a heaven, I'd like what I had imagined to be true. Perhaps God's lil angels do play the harp.

I'll be logging off soon, have a goodnight's sleep, Aham.