Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2012 13:35:18 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Maybe Earth is the proverbial Hell, and we're all here because of some sin we committed in a previous life - and in order to be returned to "heaven" we have to prove ourselves here first by our actions.

Something else for you to ponder...

ha...that explains a lot.

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2012 13:02:40 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

I'm sorry. You know someone is delusional when they say Christianity is not a Religion.

Most people understand that Christianity is a religion, Loop, in the textbook sense of things, so if somebody suggests otherwise perhaps we should give them the chance to explain themselves.

For instance, there are people - Christian by virtue of their adherence to Christian ideals - who don't necessarily want anything to do with the institutional aspects of Christianity -they may not care for the hierarchy of the Church, its delving into politics etc. They might be viewed as 'independent Christians', eschewing the textbook connotations of 'organised religion'. Such is the breadth of Biblical interpretation that there is likely a spectrum of views spanning from the highly individualistic, to the orthodox, institutionally-approved variants which we generally associate with Christianity the religion.

As a relatively high-profile example I'd suggest Leo Tolstoy -a Christian who managed to find Biblical support for anarchism and consequently dedicated much time to asking very inconvenient questions about Christianity the religion as espoused by the Russian Orthodox Church, such that he was excommunicated and even today, more than a century after his death, Russian authorities refuse to honour him in any way. A passionate Christian who was very much at odds with the religion.

Heart2heart would be best to clarify this, though it seems to me that another option besides delusion is that the lady has developed a personal interpretation of what Christianity is, what it means to her etc.

[Reckless Roselia]

Christianity is a Religion. An organized religion to be precise. If someone wishes to call themselves a Christian then they are brushing themselves with religion too.

[Deleted]

--

[Loopdilou]

Sept 17, 2012 15:02:48 GMT -5 @heart2heart said:

loopdilou told me..

I'm sorry. You know someone is delusional when they say Christianity is not a Religion.

You do? Then why in the world would you want to hear one more peep out of me?

YOUR "GOD" is based on Christianity's idea truth of "GOD" - not Hinduism, or Roman, or Voudon, or any other <-- Correct.. it is based on the Abrahamic religion accounted righteousness by faith in God, only and not religion/law of Christianity (now a collection of religions believer's that recognize Christ as the son of God). Every time you say "God" instead of "Allah" or "Thor" or "Kali" you reaffirm your faith in an Abrahamic religion faith. Most of you here have expressed believing in a loving god God, which specifically invokes Christianity (as opposed to Judaism). So, please, tell me again how you aren't Religious

How? In six syllables.. I am not re-li-gious. I am relational!

Yah, keep telling yourself that. You have based your "relationship" on religion, ergo you are religious. And please don't "correct" my point of view with your dogma.. I don't go through your posts and change "God" into "invisible sky wizard" or "faith" into "paranoid delusion."

[weltschmerz]

Sept 17, 2012 12:52:36 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

Sept 17, 2012 10:16:09 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

So what you're saying is that God decided that faith wasn't good for me? It isn't what I needed or wanted, so the answer was "no"?

Absolutely not. Do any of my posts suggest I think that way? Geez Louise. Have a nice day.

Well, yes. You said that because I didn't get an answer, it wasn't what I wanted or needed.

[weltschmerz]

Oh WELT, I'm so sorry things worked out this way for you. I don't know what happened, but there are times when we ask for something and He does answer, but the answer is no. It's no because what we think we need or want - in the end- is not good for us.
-----------------
That's your quote, right there.

[weltschmerz]

....and before you say that perhaps my need wasn't strong enough;
I was terrified. When you have your safety net disappear, it's a frightening thing. I realized there was no benevolent father figure looking after me and watching over me. There was no special afterlife. I wasn't going to meet up with all my deceased loved ones in heaven. There was nothing out there, and I had to make it on my own, without the aforementioned training wheels.
Having reality slap you upside the head is scary. I invitied him back into my heart, but he didn't show up. Didn't even RSVP.

And no, I wasn't expecting him to talk to me, or send an angel or burning bush or rainbows. I just wanted to feel his presence.

[Loopdilou]

And let's be clear that some Atheists have no crisis of faith - we never had it in the first place

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

If you're going to quote someone else's post, please don't strike out (edit) THEIR words to insert your own.

SL

[Loopdilou]

Sept 17, 2012 15:42:12 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

If you're going to quote someone else's post, please don't strike out (edit) THEIR words to insert your own.

SL

Seriously, 'cause I could have ALL kinds of fun with that

[weltschmerz]

Sept 17, 2012 15:41:15 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

And let's be clear that some Atheists have no crisis of faith - we never had it in the first place

Loop, it was a very important part of my childhood. We went to church and Sunday school. People kept telling me that Jesus was always with me, so I would leave some food on my plate for him, scooch over on the chair, to give him room to sit, and only sleep in half the bed.


(Going to the bathroom was brutal)

[Reckless Roselia]

(Going to the bathroom was brutal)

Were you gonna share your toilet seat with Jesus too?

[busymom]

Aw, Welts, I think that's soooo cool that as a kid, you'd leave Jesus some food on your plate!


I just got home, & you all have added a few pages since I left this morning. (I'll hafta catch up on my reading!) I just want to touch on something heart2heart said. For me personally, yes, Christianity is a religion, but it's also a relationship. This is a weak example (but it's the best way to describe it that I can come up with), but I see God as a really good friend, yet someone I look up to, kind of like a parent. Someone who wishes the best for me, but allows me my own opinions & mistakes. Does that make any sense?

[weltschmerz]

Sept 17, 2012 15:54:50 GMT -5 Reckless Roselia said:

(Going to the bathroom was brutal)

Were you gonna share your toilet seat with Jesus too?

I was uncomfortable with him watching.

[Loopdilou]

Sept 17, 2012 15:58:43 GMT -5 busymom said:

Aw, Welts, I think that's soooo cool that as a kid, you'd leave Jesus some food on your plate!


I just got home, & you all have added a few pages since I left this morning. (I'll hafta catch up on my reading!) I just want to touch on something heart2heart said. For me personally, yes, Christianity is a religion, but it's also a relationship. This is a weak example (but it's the best way to describe it that I can come up with), but I see God as a really good friend, yet someone I look up to, kind of like a parent. Someone who wishes the best for me, but allows me my own opinions & mistakes. Does that make any sense?

It makes perfect sense, it would just be disingenuous to say that concept is not firmly rooted in Christianity.

[mrsdutt]

INNER said: For instance, there are people - Christian by virtue of their adherence to Christian ideals - who don't necessarily want anything to do with the institutional aspects of Christianity -they may not care for the hierarchy of the Church, its delving into politics etc.


I am in total agreement with this statement. Well spoken, Inner.

[mrsdutt]

Sept 17, 2012 15:25:59 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Sept 17, 2012 12:52:36 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

Absolutely not. Do any of my posts suggest I think that way? Geez Louise. Have a nice day.

Well, yes. You said that because I didn't get an answer, it wasn't what I wanted or needed.

I'm sorry you took it that way. It was not my intention at all. Please accept my apologies.

[mrsdutt]

Sept 17, 2012 15:27:37 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Oh WELT, I'm so sorry things worked out this way for you. I don't know what happened, but there are times when we ask for something and He does answer, but the answer is no. It's no because what we think we need or want - in the end- is not good for us.
-----------------
That's your quote, right there.

I wrote that before you stated what you asked for. Again, I should have shut up. My goal was to offer comfort, but I guess it backfired. I will never again try to offer comfort to someone I don't know. I'm sorry.

[weltschmerz]

I'm sorry you took it that way. It was not my intention at all. Please accept my apologies.
--------------------
No problem. I'm very forgiving, for an atheist.

[mrsdutt]

Sept 17, 2012 16:41:15 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I'm sorry you took it that way. It was not my intention at all. Please accept my apologies.
--------------------
No problem. I'm very forgiving, for an atheist.

[mrsdutt]

Maybe it's time to admit I had a crisis of faith when I was 14-28. Life was horrendous and I searched too. I was empty inside with a lot of anger in there. This is me I'm talking about. I'm not referring to anyone else. I looked into any and every avenue I found. Searching, always searching. So I know the road and it was rocky. I am comfortable where I landed. Others are comfortable where they land. It all comes down to choices and the end result.

[Deleted]

And please don't "correct" my point of view with your dogma..I don't go through your posts and change "God" into "invisible sky wizard" or "faith" into "paranoid delusion."

Okay.

If you're going to quote someone else's post, please don't strike out (edit) THEIR words to insert your own.

SL

Okay.

[weltschmerz]

Sept 17, 2012 16:52:15 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

Maybe it's time to admit I had a crisis of faith when I was 14-28. Life was horrendous and I searched too. I was empty inside with a lot of anger in there. This is me I'm talking about. I'm not referring to anyone else. I looked into any and every avenue I found. Searching, always searching. So I know the road and it was rocky. I am comfortable where I landed. Others are comfortable where they land. It all comes down to choices and the end result.

Thank you for sharing that.
My life wasn't horrendous, and there was no anger. I just felt like there was something "missing". I was living in the US then, so I came across a great many Christians. I envied the solace and succor they found in their faith. Their lives seemed so much easier, shrugging off adversity with "Well, it was God's will", or "When God closes a door, he opens a window". They seemed to find a great deal of comfort in "knowing" that their next, heavenly, lives would be better.
I wanted to feel like that again. I guess it wasn't meant to be.

[mmhmm]

I stay out of here for the most part. I, too, have searched. I think most people have. Different people reach different conclusions. That's what individuality offers us ... the opportunity to think as individuals. When you're typing a post, stop and think for a moment how you would feel if the post were addressed to you. How would you like your words changed to represent the opposite of what you feel? How would you like to have your beliefs denigrated and your very deepest feelings put down to what amounts to stupidity, or worse ... unworthiness? Just think. That's all I ask.

[mmhmm]

Hmmm. I do believe we need a post bump.

[mrsdutt]

Sept 17, 2012 17:36:50 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Hmmm. I do believe we need a post bump.

What's a bump?

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2012 10:15:52 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

I will share what I believe, but not debate whether I believe in the God I worship

Exactly - that's what the God Loving People thread is for - those who already believe and want to share their beliefs with each other.

This thread is for questioning religion not for trying to convert people or preach.

So, should those who believe in the "god energy" also exit the thread as well?

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

If you're looking for an answer from me, read mmhmm's post #422 - she probably said it best - especially the last half.

[beags]

Sept 17, 2012 17:16:24 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Sept 17, 2012 16:52:15 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

Maybe it's time to admit I had a crisis of faith when I was 14-28. Life was horrendous and I searched too. I was empty inside with a lot of anger in there. This is me I'm talking about. I'm not referring to anyone else. I looked into any and every avenue I found. Searching, always searching. So I know the road and it was rocky. I am comfortable where I landed. Others are comfortable where they land. It all comes down to choices and the end result.

Thank you for sharing that.
My life wasn't horrendous, and there was no anger. I just felt like there was something "missing". I was living in the US then, so I came across a great many Christians. I envied the solace and succor they found in their faith. Their lives seemed so much easier, shrugging off adversity with "Well, it was God's will", or "When God closes a door, he opens a window". They seemed to find a great deal of comfort in "knowing" that their next, heavenly, lives would be better.
I wanted to feel like that again. I guess it wasn't meant to be.

I'm sorry, but I'm a christian . . .and I taught religious ed for years.

I find that these people who can say It's God will . . . are burying their heads in the sand. These same people cannot see when their kids are acting up or their lives are falling apart around them.

I guess I just never understood it. I'm sure there are some who take comfort in it. (I'm not one of them). Then there are some who use it as a tool to give up and hide their heads in the sand.

I do believe that there is a God . . . but I don't have faith to that extent where I can put my life in the hands of someone I can't see.

Sometimes there truly is nothing one can do about a situation, except deal with the fallout that happens.

As far as making yourself happy. . . . . well I'm able to put myself into a pretty depressed state. (I don't yet know how I do it) I have done it. That was my doing, not anyone else's. I was the one who had to get myself out of it. I usually do.

I don't know, I just never turned to God in those times. I don't expect other's to get me out of my state of mind. I do it. Financial situations . . God isn't going to get you out of that. You get yourself out of that. If that means two jobs then it means working two jobs. (I went up to three jobs at one time . . that was nuts) I couldn't sit around and wait for God to throw me money.

Some will say that God was the reason I was able to get those jobs. I disagree . . . I got out of the house and applied for those jobs. I went to interviews, and I did the work needed to keep the jobs. I am now down to one job because that one job gave me more hours and decent pay. So I was able to quit the other two. It was my hard work that made that happen.

The next question one may say . . . God had a hand in it.

Perhaps He did, but I just don't have that great of a belief. I still say I made it happen.

I am responsible for my own happiness. Does believing in God help that? I guess so, I really don't know if I didn't believe if it would be the same. I think it would be, but then again . .I will never know.