Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Sept 5, 2012 9:51:44 GMT -5
Tenn., what do you see as the difference between a traveller and a tourist?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2012 9:51:59 GMT -5
So, basically unless you know a lot of people who are "minorities", then your world must be limited? That seems to be the gist of all the previous pages. So, you have to be able to say "Some of my best friends are minorities" and that puts you head and shoulders above "less cultured and less sophisticated" people. Um, ok. That's (sort of) the point I was inadequately trying to make yesterday. Seems like some people feel how many minorities they know somehow makes them better people. Hence why I was saying I don't try and seek out diversity just to prove how cultured and better I am. Thus, if you live in a city like NYC, you are a better person than some "hick" living in a rural area. Um, no.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Sept 5, 2012 9:55:25 GMT -5
Please point out where anyone other than you has said this.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Sept 5, 2012 10:02:21 GMT -5
Here is one I don't think anyone else has said - I am completely limited in home ownership. I have absolutely no experience whatsoever in purchasing, maintaining or selling any piece of real estate.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 5, 2012 10:04:12 GMT -5
Tenn., what do you see as the difference between a traveller and a tourist? Waffle-this may help explain my statement. After reading it, apply it to everyday living. The difference between a tourist and traveller is not determined by cost, age, style or destination. It is based entirely on outlook and attitude. You can just as easily find a traveller in a 5-star hotel as you can a tourist in more humble accommodation. You may just as easily encounter a traveller on the beaches of the Dominican Republic or Mexico, as you will a tourist in remote China or Peru. A traveller lives every moment of their trip. They are appreciative of every inch of new ground that they are exploring and of everything around them. They notice the faint smells of cooking, wood smoke or blossoms that gently permeate the air. They notice the struggles or joys of life for the inhabitants: the complexities of shopping for food or taking the local transit; the status of a teacher; the local icons or heroes; the approachability and honesty of the police. They glance at the local newspaper and observe the cost of living. They strive to keep a low profile and leave behind a positive impression of visitors wherever they go, and always attempt to be polite, culturally sensitive and attempt at least a few words of the local language. They sample the food, they listen to the music and they respect local customs. They haggle for souvenirs respectfully. They read before they go, they are aware of events while they are there, and continue to take an interest once at home. A tourist simply substitutes the comforts of home for the comforts of a hotel. They don’t stray from the property or travel only within the secure confines a well-managed group. They stick only to the food they know. They take no interest in their surroundings and attempt no interaction with the local people. When it is all over, they can barely differentiate between this year’s vacation and last year’s. Being a traveller does not mean sacrificing comfort, taking risks or forging ahead alone. You might just as easily be sleeping in a luxury hotel and travelling as part of a small group. There is nothing elitist about being a traveller. The status does not discriminate against infirmity or education or wealth, it is simply a genuine appreciation of one’s surroundings regardless of where those surroundings might be. It is about drawing the maximum possible reward from your travels and enriching your life with exploration of new cultures, religions, languages and lifestyles. It is what travel is all about. theadventuretravelcompany.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/tourist-vs-traveller/
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 5, 2012 10:08:01 GMT -5
They strive to keep a low profile and leave behind a positive impression of visitors wherever they go, and always attempt to be polite, culturally sensitive and attempt at least a few words of the local language
The people I went to Southeast Asia with should have had to read this before they left. I now understand why so many people elsewhere in the world consider us "rude".
I was talking with someone who has traveled alot after the trip and she told me my attitude showed I had the mark of a traveler, not a tourist.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 5, 2012 10:13:15 GMT -5
You understand the difference DQ. Good for you.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Sept 5, 2012 10:14:00 GMT -5
Tennesseer - Great definition of a traveler.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 5, 2012 10:23:54 GMT -5
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Sept 5, 2012 10:30:25 GMT -5
They strive to keep a low profile and leave behind a positive impression of visitors wherever they go, and always attempt to be polite, culturally sensitive and attempt at least a few words of the local languageThe people I went to Southeast Asia with should have had to read this before they left. I now understand why so many people elsewhere in the world consider us "rude". I was talking with someone who has traveled alot after the trip and she told me my attitude showed I had the mark of a traveler, not a tourist. I am shocked at the number of people I have met who traveled to another country and were upset that when they got there the people in the country didn't speak English. WTF!! I always try and learn at least a few words and make an effort to speak the native language of whatever country I am visiting. Many parts of the world do know English but I don't expect them to speak it just because I have graced them with my presence. I think everyone should make an effort to try and speak that country's language. I have found that typically people appreciate your struggle at attempting to speak their language and will switch to speaking English if they know it.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 5, 2012 10:41:00 GMT -5
Our guide decided to do us a favor and take us to a local laundromat that would do laundry for cheaper than what the hotel was charging. Some people brought an INSANE amount of laundry.
Our laundry had been done as a group, not as individuals so when people arrived all our clothes were jumbled up, she had to sort them while we were there. I am betting that we all pretty much looked alike to this lady and she spoke no English. She was trying to sort our laundry out and people kept shoving their tickets in her face and loudly/slowly speaking English rather than waiting.
It wasn't like going to Max J Walker here in the states.
I stood off to the side patiently waiting. I figured my laundry would show up eventually and if it didn't? Oh well. I could buy more or just wash whatever I was wearing now in the sink. Nine times out of ten we were tramping around in the jungle so who cares if I wear the same pants more than once (I had only brought two anyhow. Some people brought an entire closets worth of clothing)?
The person I wanted to punch the most was yelling at a poor woman about her pink towel. She kept slowly/loudly saying "PINK TOWEL" and making this motion with her hands like she was folding a towel. It's a damn towel, get over it!
My roomate and I called one of the professors and told her to get down there people were being really nasty to this poor woman and someone had to intervene. I honestly would not be surprised if that woman never did a white person's laundry again after that experience.
A traveler is someone who goes with the flow and would rather just buy another pair of pants that make such a scene. A tourist is the one that expects it to be exactly like going to Max J Walker in the states and then get pissed off when it doesn't.
Same people when we toured a local market very loudly and obnoxiously made icky sounds and commented on the food. You could tell by the looks on the vendors' faces that while they might not understand English, they knew exactly what these people were saying.
So rude. You do not go into someone's market and make faces/noises. Even if it is the most bizzarre thing you ever saw, it's what these people eat. You respect that.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Sept 5, 2012 11:01:58 GMT -5
Drama - Wow! Unbelievable! I probably would have walked up to the lady yelling about a pink towel and handed her a few bucks and told her to go buy a new freaking towel.
ETA: When I went to Italy I met a fellow traveler who was from Australia and lost her luggage (or rather the airline lost her luggage). She didn't get her luggage for 4 days and she just went with the flow. She went and bought a few things and dealt with it.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 5, 2012 11:03:43 GMT -5
I've never stayed (note: stayed, not visited) at a hospital. No broken bones. No surgeries. No life-threatening infections or illnesses. No stones or cysts or ulcers or allergic reactions or conditions that needed to be monitored overnight. I count it all blessings, but you could say that I'm exceptionally "limited" in that regard. Fortunately, TV has taught me exactly what hospitals are like.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Sept 5, 2012 11:04:31 GMT -5
"loudly/slowly speaking English" - oh that is soooo stupid and horrible.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 5, 2012 11:06:15 GMT -5
I probably would have walked up to the lady yelling about a pink towel and handed her a few bucks and told her to go buy a new freaking towel.I didn't have a few bucks on me, but I did tell her to knock it off. Unfortunately by that point it had gotten so out of control there was no talking to people. That's why my roomate and I left to call the professor and tell her to get down there ASAP. I told DH if I ever travel again I am NEVER doing it as part of a group. At the very least not a group that big. I'd much prefer to travel alone so I don't have to deal with that kind of nonsense. "loudly/slowly speaking English" - oh that is soooo stupid and horrible.But but I thought that was how I communicate with a non-English speaker! If I speak loud enough and slow enough they will magically understand me and I won't have to be bothered to try to talk to them properly.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 5, 2012 11:09:16 GMT -5
They strive to keep a low profile and leave behind a positive impression of visitors wherever they go, and always attempt to be polite, culturally sensitive and attempt at least a few words of the local languageThe people I went to Southeast Asia with should have had to read this before they left. I now understand why so many people elsewhere in the world consider us "rude". I was talking with someone who has traveled alot after the trip and she told me my attitude showed I had the mark of a traveler, not a tourist. I am shocked at the number of people I have met who traveled to another country and were upset that when they got there the people in the country didn't speak English. WTF!! I always try and learn at least a few words and make an effort to speak the native language of whatever country I am visiting. Many parts of the world do know English but I don't expect them to speak it just because I have graced them with my presence. I think everyone should make an effort to try and speak that country's language. I have found that typically people appreciate your struggle at attempting to speak their language and will switch to speaking English if they know it. For those who won't travel overseas, say to Europe, because they don't speak the language, I always recommend a trip to Great Britain as a good beginning. They speak English there, you will have no problem understanding meal menus, and goodness knows there is plenty of history, culture to explore and plenty of good people watching. Get your feet wet.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 5, 2012 11:14:20 GMT -5
Thing is if you are polite it's really not that hard to communicate with non-native English speakers. By being polite to people I always found at least one person who wanted to try his/her English skills out on a native speaker.
I also spent a lot of time talking to Australian and English travelers, too. I very rarely had anything to do with people in the group. It's a shame people miss out on so much because they refuse to get out of the comfort zone of the group.
I talked with our guide and he said a lot of people come to Borneo and then hole themselves up in their hotels because they can't stand the heat. Why on earth would you go someplace so beautiful only to stare at hotel walls all day?!
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Sept 5, 2012 11:15:40 GMT -5
I wanted to go to Ireland and Scotland in 2013 but I think this is going to be put off until 2014.
I am going to Belize in March though so I am excited about that!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2012 11:16:47 GMT -5
Reading helps too... Learn a bit, how they tip, do they barter... Know where the dinner hour stars at 7 so you wont be surprised and hungry if you are used to eating earlier... Etc etc...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 5, 2012 11:18:41 GMT -5
I did a lot of reading about traveling to Borneo, unfortunately a lot of it was severely out of date, but I did get enough out of it to be useful.
Unfortunately I don't think all the reading in the world would prevent stupid/rude. You shouldn't have to read to know that speaking loudly/slowly in English is beyond rude, annoying and just plain unhelpful.
I wish I had done another international trip while at Simpson. Yeah it would have added to my SL burden but it was so worth it.
Borneo was on my bucket list and I wasn't going to pass up the chance and count on being able to handle 99 degree weather with 99.9% humidity when I am in my 60's.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 5, 2012 11:21:44 GMT -5
Thing is if you are polite it's really not that hard to communicate with non-native English speakers. By being polite to people I always found at least one person who wanted to try his/her English skills out on a native speaker. I also spent a lot of time talking to Australian and English travelers, too. I very rarely had anything to do with people in the group. It's a shame people miss out on so much because they refuse to get out of the comfort zone of the group. I talked with our guide and he said a lot of people come to Borneo and then hole themselves up in their hotels because they can't stand the heat. Why on earth would you go someplace so beautiful only to stare at hotel walls all day?! Your group should have launched the trip to Borneo by starting a week long summer heat/humidity acclimation period here in Memphis. They wouldn't have known the difference in Borneo.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 5, 2012 11:26:44 GMT -5
Oh our group was fine. We were all from Iowa. He said he'd have a lot of people coming from elsewhere that couldn't stand the heat and would spend their entire vacation holed up in their hotel rooms. The country is right on the equator, common sense should tell you it is going to be hotter than hell. If you don't like hot then don't travel there! I don't get those fancy resorts either where you never leave the area. DH wants to go to one he said it would be awesome because they have so much to do you never have to leave. I said I don't go to another country to spend my entire vacation walking around an enclosed resort. Maybe the compromise is we could stay there and he can spend his time there while I go off and explore. Might be preferable actually.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Sept 5, 2012 11:27:04 GMT -5
"Borneo was on my bucket list and I wasn't going to pass up the chance and count on being able to handle 99 degree weather with 99.9% humidity when I am in my 60's."
Yeah, I hope to still be plenty active in my 60's but I realize I might be somewhat limited. That is one reason why I went to Alaska this summer. I wanted to do strenuous hike on a glacier and I figured now is a good a time as any.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 5, 2012 11:41:49 GMT -5
I am a big fan of Paris. I have been there multiple times. One thing I learned in Paris I applied to all the other countries I visited.
Instead of dining in restaurants on the main drag or those touted in magazines and travel books, go down the side streets. Walk a few blocks down, then take your next street on your right (or left). Walk a few more blocks down the new side street and then take another left or right. You will most always find neighborhood bars and restaurants where the food and drink prices are not outrageous and the food is even better than the big name tourist restaurants.
The patrons and servers also treat you like one of them for taking the time to discover them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2012 11:44:29 GMT -5
I'm pleased to learn that I'm more of a traveler than a tourist. I don't really see the point in visiting different places just to do the same things I do at home. The point (to me) is to experience the things that make that place unique. Especially if it's a place vastly different from what I'm use to. I enjoy talking to the people that live there and learning about their culture and the place they call home. I'm a creature of habit and it's difficult to step outside my comfort zone. That's what limits my world. That's probably why I love to travel. When I'm in a new place, I have no "routine" to follow and everything is outside my comfort zone because I'm most comfortable with the familiar, but I willingly embrace it anyway. Then I come home, and it's the same old, same old.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Sept 5, 2012 11:45:15 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of the museums in Paris. I could probably spend weeks just looking at the art. French food, not so much.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 5, 2012 11:48:53 GMT -5
I discovered a Chinese resturant in Borneo and made the mistake of ordering the spicy noodles. Yeah authentic spicy is quite a different animal from Americanized Chinese food. Darn near blew my head off. Servers had a great time asking me if it was "too spicy". Pride told me to say no and keep eating. While I was in immense pain I could breath better than I had in days.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 5, 2012 11:52:10 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of the museums in Paris. I could probably spend weeks just looking at the art. French food, not so much. Me too on the museums (and medieval churches in and outside of Paris). But we must agree to disagree on the food.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 5, 2012 13:55:19 GMT -5
My world is limited by my sense of work ethic. If we get some free time, I immediately think of a house project that should get done. DH immediately thinks of hauling the kids to the river (or somewhere else that is fun). In many many cases I can see where organizing the bathroom closet or weeding the backyard is not as important as spending an afternoon exploring our city. Yet I can't seem to help myself. Finances also limit us. I would LOVE to travel more or do more things locally, but we have to watch every penny. Sure it would be great to go to an Ethiopian or Peruvian restaurant, but since we're watching our money we basically don't eat out unless circumstances somewhat force it to happen - and that ends up being Chipotle or something. I have some friends who are pretty much the opposite of us - they do fun stuff every day and their house/cars are always a disaster. They eat at restaurants 5x/wk and every weekend they are off doing something. They buy their DD everything she wants. They travel internationally 1-2x/yr. I admit I wonder if their way is better than mine. Certainly their DD is much more worldly than my kids. Think of yourself on your deathbed, looking back at your life. Would you rather be pleased that you explored the world, tasted everything from the buffet of life, had fun, or would you prefer to revel in the fact that your closets were organized?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Sept 5, 2012 14:20:45 GMT -5
Think of yourself on your deathbed, looking back at your life. Would you rather be pleased that you explored the world, tasted everything from the buffet of life, had fun, or would you prefer to revel in the fact that your closets were organized?
That's what I try to tell DH. He feels the days is wasted if we did not Get Something Done! If I enjoyed the day, I don't consider it wasted. I could spend an afternoon reading a book and it would drive him nuts because I wasn't Getting Something Done....
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