What does prayer mean to you? Is it OK if someone

[mmhmm]

Welts, I asked that the battle stop. I mean for it to stop, please. Thanks.

mmhmm, Administrator

[weltschmerz]

Sept 4, 2012 12:43:27 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Welts, I asked that the battle stop. I mean for it to stop, please. Thanks.

mmhmm, Administrator

Sorry, I didn't see your request because I was typing out my response. I'll stop, but I will not sugarcoat my opinions.

[mmhmm]

We don't expect people to sugarcoat their opinions. We do expect people to accept that others might not agree with those opinions, and we do expect people to avoid taking over the threads with personal back-and-forth over such disagreements.

mmhmm, Administrator

[Deleted]

Sept 3, 2012 20:46:41 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

Sept 3, 2012 20:37:52 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I don't believe in God.

You will. It's better to believe now rather than be disappointed when there is no audience for you. I have seen some interesting words come out of atheists mouths. It's usually Thank God after some miraculous something.

I felt this post by artemis was very offensive to any non religious posters. I can see why this would set people off.
I'm just putting that out there because there are always two sides and peoples "opinions" can be seen as offensive, especially when it comes to religious topics.

[weltschmerz]

Sept 4, 2012 13:07:32 GMT -5 @joey said:

Sept 3, 2012 20:46:41 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

You will. It's better to believe now rather than be disappointed when there is no audience for you. I have seen some interesting words come out of atheists mouths. It's usually Thank God after some miraculous something.

I felt this post by artemis was very offensive to any non religious posters. I can see why this would set people off.
I'm just putting that out there because there are always two sides and peoples "opinions" can be seen as offensive, especially when it comes to religious topics.

It was, but I'm puzzled by the phrase "It's better to believe now". It somehow implies that I can pretend to believe, or force myself to believe or go through the motions of believing. I used to believe and now I don't. Nothing can change that. Merely going through the motions or getting my butt back into the pews is counterproductive and a waste of time.
There's absolutely nothing I can do about it.

[femmefatale]

Sept 4, 2012 13:07:32 GMT -5 @joey said:

Sept 3, 2012 20:46:41 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

You will. It's better to believe now rather than be disappointed when there is no audience for you. I have seen some interesting words come out of atheists mouths. It's usually Thank God after some miraculous something.

I felt this post by artemis was very offensive to any non religious posters. I can see why this would set people off.
I'm just putting that out there because there are always two sides and peoples "opinions" can be seen as offensive, especially when it comes to religious topics.

And there have been some offensive posts to believers, as well, Apps. I'm not gonna go back and quote them, because as mmhmm stated... I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think all the slurs are ridiculous!

[Green Eyed Lady]

I felt this post by artemis was very offensive to any non religious posters. I can see why this would set people off.
I'm just putting that out there because there are always two sides and peoples "opinions" can be seen as offensive, especially when it comes to religious topics.

Believe it or not, I see your point. I don't think everybody gets close to death and suddenly becomes a believer. I know it didn't happen with my father. There have been, I suppose, lots of people who have "come to Jesus" when the end is in sight, hoping this will guarantee them an afterlife, if (not my "if" - I know) there is one. Sort of hedging your bets, I suppose. I don't think it happens every time. In fact, I know it doesn't.

ETA: IF that was what A meant by his post. If he meant that "you will" as in, when you pass, you will find yourself face to face with the truth, then he's right.

[Deleted]

Sept 4, 2012 13:43:22 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I felt this post by artemis was very offensive to any non religious posters. I can see why this would set people off.
I'm just putting that out there because there are always two sides and peoples "opinions" can be seen as offensive, especially when it comes to religious topics.

Believe it or not, I see your point. I don't think everybody gets close to death and suddenly becomes a believer. I know it didn't happen with my father. There have been, I suppose, lots of people who have "come to Jesus" when the end is in sight, hoping this will guarantee them an afterlife, if (not my "if" - I know) there is one. Sort of hedging your bets, I suppose. I don't think it happens every time. In fact, I know it doesn't.

ETA: IF that was what A meant by his post. If he meant that "you will" as in, when you pass, you will find yourself face to face with the truth, then he's right.

No disrecpect but no, he is not right in my opinon.
For me to explain why I feel this way would most likely end up in my opinion offending people so I will just step away from this thread.

[Green Eyed Lady]

I'm not offended by a difference of opinion, Apple. No matter how many times that is stated, it's just not the truth. You are interesting to talk to and I respect your opinions because they are presented in a respectful way. I understand much of what you say. I don't necessarily agree, but I do understand. When I said "face to face with the truth", I mean we will know - one way or the other. Whether it's as I believe or as you believe - we'll know. When I went back and read what I wrote, it sounded more like, "WHEN YOU DIE YOU'LL KNOW I'M RIGHT." and I didn't mean that at all. Sometimes, my fingers get ahead of my brain.

[Deleted]

Sept 4, 2012 13:30:28 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

It was, but I'm puzzled by the phrase "It's better to believe now". It somehow implies that I can pretend to believe, or force myself to believe or go through the motions of believing. I used to believe and now I don't. Nothing can change that. Merely going through the motions or getting my butt back into the pews is counterproductive and a waste of time.
There's absolutely nothing I can do about it.

That phrase is for those that are more ambivalent in knowing what they believe. For some the evidence could go either way so the benefits of believing vs the risks of not believing acts as the last straw to fall on the side of believing.

[Deleted]

Sept 4, 2012 13:43:22 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Believe it or not, I see your point. I don't think everybody gets close to death and suddenly becomes a believer. I know it didn't happen with my father. There have been, I suppose, lots of people who have "come to Jesus" when the end is in sight, hoping this will guarantee them an afterlife, if (not my "if" - I know) there is one. Sort of hedging your bets, I suppose. I don't think it happens every time. In fact, I know it doesn't.

I guess the problem with hedging bets is that one has nothing to go on. For example, what if hedging your bets really pisses God off?… What if it turns out that that is the thing which angers Him the most?… then you're screwed.

Might as well do nothing and just plead ignorance if it comes to judgement -ignorant, after all, is what we are on these matters.

[femmefatale]

Sept 4, 2012 14:50:13 GMT -5 @devianity said:

Sept 4, 2012 13:43:22 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Believe it or not, I see your point. I don't think everybody gets close to death and suddenly becomes a believer. I know it didn't happen with my father. There have been, I suppose, lots of people who have "come to Jesus" when the end is in sight, hoping this will guarantee them an afterlife, if (not my "if" - I know) there is one. Sort of hedging your bets, I suppose. I don't think it happens every time. In fact, I know it doesn't.

I guess the problem with hedging bets is that one has nothing to go on. For example, what if hedging your bets really pisses God off?… What if it turns out that that is the thing which angers Him the most?… then you're screwed.

Might as well do nothing and just plead ignorance if it comes to judgement -ignorant, after all, is what we are on these matters.

But, if you pray, Astro, even on your death bed and are sincere about it, in your heart, all is forgiven. At least from a Christian's stand point, it is and the Bible.

[Deleted]

I clearly remember that the Bible talks about a 5 year lookback period in order to discourage deathbed conversions.

[Green Eyed Lady]

LOL!! Chapter and verse please?

[Deleted]

Sept 4, 2012 15:03:01 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

LOL!! Chapter and verse please?

I think its in the back part close to the buy out or renewal option.

Check the small print.

[Green Eyed Lady]

I'll have to do that! Either way, I'm covered!

[Loopdilou]

To me "prayer" and "good thoughts" are all part of the same mumbo jumbo. Their use is not to the person they're directed at, but to the person offering them. I also don't argue that they don't do the offerer some good, since they act a bit like a placebo effect.

So pray away for me if you want, it does me no good or ill either way.

[mrsdutt]

Sept 3, 2012 20:37:52 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Sept 3, 2012 20:36:04 GMT -5 @shooby said:

God works in mysterious ways Welts.

I don't believe in God.

He believes in you.

[mmhmm]

I'm going to ask those posting here to read the first thread in this forum. It contains the rules for posting here, and is locked. Even if you've read it before, please read it again. There are only a couple of rules, so it won't take up a lot of your time; however, reading and adhering to it will sure save a lot of my time, and will save me from having to come down on folks for breaking the rules. That's something I really, really don't want to do. Thanks.

mmhmm, Administrator

[Loopdilou]

Thanks, mmhmm, I think that was a timely reminder.

[weltschmerz]

Sept 4, 2012 16:06:20 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

Sept 3, 2012 20:37:52 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I don't believe in God.

He believes in you.

Oh? Which one believes in me? Brahma? Kali? Ganesh? Shiva? Ram? Bastet? Osiris? Isis? Anubis? Abassi? Kwoth? Ikenga? All of them? Or just the Judeo-Christian God? There are thousands. Why should I think only your particular god believes in me?

[mmhmm]

Sept 4, 2012 16:34:41 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

Thanks, mmhmm, I think that was a timely reminder.

I hope it takes, loops. It was hard for moonbeam to make the decision to open these discussions again because of the tendency for them to develop into battlegrounds. People want to talk about religion, and that's fine. However, it's not fine when one is barking at another for something posted. A knock-down-drag-out between two (or a few) posters isn't all that interesting to anyone else, not to mention that's the kind of thing that's going to get this forum removed. I'd bet, if it's removed again (we've had to stop religious threads before) it will be for the last time. Moon can only offer so many opportunities. If people choose to misuse those opportunities, it's on them when the game ends.

mmhmm, Administrator

[Deleted]

Sept 4, 2012 16:34:41 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

Thanks, mmhmm, I think that was a timely reminder.

[Loopdilou]

Sept 4, 2012 16:44:16 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Sept 4, 2012 16:06:20 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

He believes in you.

Oh? Which one believes in me? Brahma? Kali? Ganesh? Shiva? Ram? Bastet? Osiris? Isis? Anubis? Abassi? Kwoth? Ikenga? All of them? Or just the Judeo-Christian God? There are thousands. Why should I think only your particular god believes in me?

I tend to think Satan believes in me. I'm one of his good works as an Atheist sinner

[Deleted]

Sept 4, 2012 17:20:29 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

Sept 4, 2012 16:44:16 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Oh? Which one believes in me? Brahma? Kali? Ganesh? Shiva? Ram? Bastet? Osiris? Isis? Anubis? Abassi? Kwoth? Ikenga? All of them? Or just the Judeo-Christian God? There are thousands. Why should I think only your particular god believes in me?

I tend to think Satan believes in me. I'm one of his good works as an Atheist sinner

Forgive me if I am wrong but in order to be a sinner you have to believe in sin. Sin is in the eyes of the god some believe in ergo: no belief in god translates to not believing in sin so no worries.

[Deleted]

If we weren't supposed to sin it wouldn't have been made so much fun to do so.

[Jaguar]

Namaste mmhmm, thanks ~

[Deleted]

Sept 4, 2012 17:30:53 GMT -5 @devianity said:

If we weren't supposed to sin it wouldn't have been made so much fun to do so.

Well, I can find no fault in that logic.

[Loopdilou]

Sept 4, 2012 17:27:00 GMT -5 @joey said:

Sept 4, 2012 17:20:29 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

I tend to think Satan believes in me. I'm one of his good works as an Atheist sinner

Forgive me if I am wrong but in order to be a sinner you have to believe in sin. Sin is in the eyes of the god some believe in ergo: no belief in god translates to not believing in sin so no worries.

Oh, but by the logic of some it doesn't matter if I believe it, HE does! So therefore I can still be a sinner in HIS eyes! I just hope Kali likes me.. I hear she's a mean bitch.

[weltschmerz]

I hear she's a mean bitch.
--------------
You'd think so by looking at her picture, but no. Evidently, she's quite nice.
***

Of all the forms of Devi, She is the most compassionate because She provides moksha or liberation to Her children. She is the counterpart of Shiva the destroyer. They are the destroyers of unreality. The ego sees Mother Kali and trembles with fear because the ego sees in Her its own eventual demise. A person who is attached to his or her ego will not be receptive to Mother Kali and she will appear in a fearsome form. A mature soul who engages in spiritual practice to remove the illusion of the ego sees Mother Kali as very sweet, affectionate, and overflowing with incomprehensible love for Her children.

Ma Kali wears a garland of skulls and a skirt of dismembered arms because the ego arises out of identification with the body. In truth we are beings of spirit and not flesh. So liberation can only proceed when our attachment to the body ends. Thus the garland and skirt are trophies worn by Her to symbolize having liberated Her children from attachment to the limited body. She holds a sword and a freshly severed head dripping blood. As the story goes, this represents a great battle in which she destroyed the demon Raktabija. Her black skin represents the womb of the quantum unmanifest from which all of creation arises and into which all of creation will eventually dissolve. She is depicted as standing on Shiva who lays beneath Her with white skin (in contrast to Her black or sometimes dark blue skin). He has a blissful detached look. Shiva represents pure formless awareness sat-chit-ananda (being-consciousness-bliss) while She represents "form" eternally supported by the substratum of pure awareness.