What does prayer mean to you? Is it OK if someone

[mmhmm]

Sept 1, 2012 15:59:08 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I've been sitting here trying to remember if I've ever prayed for someone's soul. I can't say that I have as I remember anyway. I sort of figure a soul being saved or not is between that soul and God. I really don't think I have.

I don't think most people do, GEL. Most, when they offer to pray for you mean the offer as a kindness. They're honestly trying to help because they care. I, for one, appreciate that offer as I would any offer of help or consolation. There are, however, always those few who need to let you know you're not good enough because you don't believe as they believe and they have to intercede for you with the diety because of this lack. That, I'm afraid, is not an act of kindness. It's an act of condemnation.

[Jaguar]

Sept 1, 2012 16:25:43 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 1, 2012 15:59:08 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I've been sitting here trying to remember if I've ever prayed for someone's soul. I can't say that I have as I remember anyway. I sort of figure a soul being saved or not is between that soul and God. I really don't think I have.

I don't think most people do, GEL. Most, when they offer to pray for you mean the offer as a kindness. They're honestly trying to help because they care. I, for one, appreciate that offer as I would any offer of help or consolation. There are, however, always those few who need to let you know you're not good enough because you don't believe as they believe and they have to intercede for you with the diety because of this lack. That, I'm afraid, is not an act of kindness. It's an act of condemnation.

So very much >>

[Peace Of Mind]

Anybody who wants to pray for me is more than welcome. I need all the help I can get!

I will have to pay attention to who finds "You will be in my prayers" offensive here. I've tried to say "You will be in my thoughts or Warm thoughts your way" instead but I do say a prayer for that person since I don't know them here at PBs. If I know your real name I use both names (real and PBs name) to cover both bases. I figure it can't hurt.

In real life I'm there for people I care about and/or consider friends. Also for my neighbors if I know what they are going through. I usually bring dinner or send flowers or at least a card and call and check on them. I also offer rides to those that may be scared of a procedure or doctors appt. or offer to go with them. I mostly email the people out of my area/state checking on them.

[Virgil Showlion]

Why does a person have to know you're praying on their behalf?

Unless you feel that declaring "I'll pray for you." will bring comfort and encouragement, or strengthen an individual's faith, or bring about a repentant attitude, I see no point in declaring it. It's the doing that matters.

[Peace Of Mind]

Virgil - People often request them when they are experiencing something difficult in their lives or may have a cancer scare or diagnosis. It's just nice to let them know they were heard and that you are putting in a prayer for them per their request. Some just say they are having a bad experience and we let them know we are praying for a good result. So they feel heard and know somebody cares or is worried for them. It's the same in RL with the people I know.

On PBs if a lot of people respond I don't and just say a prayer on their behalf. Depends on the situation. There was a cancer thread on YM that many had things going on. I didn't respond but I did say a prayer for each person and/or their spouse. I truly know what they are going through and know the fear they are experiencing and feel it can't hurt.

Oh - And I'll pray for your soul, Virgil.

[Virgil Showlion]

From what you've said, it clearly sounds as though you feel "declaring 'I'll pray for you.' will bring comfort and encouragement, or strengthen an individual's faith, or bring about a repentant attitude" in those particular threads. Ergo, I commend you for declaring it.

[Peace Of Mind]

LOL!! I guess I could have just quoted you and put: instead of getting all wordy. ;D

[Deleted]

In AA we are advised to pray for people we don't like or resent in order to let go of the anger. We are told to pray they get all the good things we want for ourselves. You would be surprised how many people end up having to pray for me

Seriously, I like it when people pray for me. Even if their motives are questionable, you can't use prayer for evil.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Exactly, later. That was my point. Why would anybody be offended at something that can't do any harm?

I do, however, understand how one could be offended at the prayer to "save your soul". I don't agree that it's always condemnation. We can't know what is in a person's heart. We may think we know and sometimes we might even be right. But nobody knows a person's motivation but that person. It may be condemnation. It may be genuine concern. I don't know.

[Deleted]

What does prayer mean to you?

When properly done, prayer mean I can talk about people behind their backs and it not be gossip..

[vonna]

Sept 3, 2012 7:05:12 GMT -5 @heart2heart said:

What does prayer mean to you?

When properly done, prayer mean I can talk about people behind their backs and it not be gossip..

Almost spit my coffee out all over my keyboard when I read this! Thanks for the morning laugh!!

[Deleted]

Thanks..

[weltschmerz]

Ìf strangers pray for me and I don't know it, there's not much I can do about it. They can pray all they want.
However, if you're my friend, I'd rather you help in more concrete ways. Send a card or funny joke via email to brighten my day. Offer to drive me to the doctor. Offer to feed my cat. Move my car to the other side of the street so I don't get a ticket.
If you "help" by communicating telepathically with an magic airborne Superman and nothing else....well...that's no help at all.

[Deleted]

Prayer is a way to offer no real help yet feel you did.

[Opti]

Sept 3, 2012 14:43:56 GMT -5 @willingsniper said:

Prayer is a way to offer no real help yet feel you did.

I know quite a few people believe as you do but prayer can have real power. If you aren't religious it may be harder to access but prayer can be literally speaking things into being which is far more than nothing.

I'll share that as a flawed flesh and blood human my results are mixed because you need to believe or at least believe more than you disbelief in order for your belief to manifest. For those who are religious, especially those who read the bible, to some extent God prayed the world into being by speaking the right Words with the right belief.

I'm not traditional in my beliefs. I do not see God as an invisible being in the sky. I see God as a Divine force everywhere present which can be accessed by anyone if they choose to. My tag line Believing is Seeing is a personal reminder that when I pray or think I must believe it to be true before it happens if I really want to experience it in real life.

Its why it is so easy for crappy things to manifest if you believe they will or for what most people believe to come true for you even if you don't spend much time thinking or praying about it.

[Opti]

Sept 3, 2012 14:17:38 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Ìf strangers pray for me and I don't know it, there's not much I can do about it. They can pray all they want.
However, if you're my friend, I'd rather you help in more concrete ways. Send a card or funny joke via email to brighten my day. Offer to drive me to the doctor. Offer to feed my cat. Move my car to the other side of the street so I don't get a ticket.
If you "help" by communicating telepathically with an magic airborne Superman and nothing else....well...that's no help at all.

I wish people would send me money, give me a decent paying job, or let me live with them but if all they can reasonable offer is prayer I'm for it. I've experienced the extra juice of prayer from others and feel it might have helped me get my Backstage FT temp job last year. I also experience the dissonance though of when people pray for what they think is likely for you (Hah!) and what you believe is possible and how that can make things worse.

I don't communicate telepathically with anyone to my knowledge airborne Superman but I do pray, do intentional mindful thinking, etc. I am slightly curious though. Do you believe in things like Reiki and Qi Gong healing? If so, do you believe practioners are able to heal someone via distance healing instead of being there in person?

[weltschmerz]

I am slightly curious though. Do you believe in things like Reiki and Qi Gong healing? If so, do you believe practioners are able to heal someone via distance healing instead of being there in person?
-------------
No, I do not.

When you speak of prayer being a positive influence, perhaps you mean self-fulfilling prophesies or placebo effects? Those, I do believe in, and quite strongly, I might add.

[Opti]

It is a self-fulfilling prophecy yes. If you believe it will happen. (The when part is a bit sticky though.)


Placebo effect, it can be, but IMO thinking of it that way is saying all people who get healed by Pencillin do so simply because of the placebo effect not because it actually works ignoring that effect. Prayer has been studied scientifically. It does work.

[femmefatale]

Prayer has been studied scientifically. It does work.

[Artemis Windsong]

In the name of Jesus Christ and in unity with the Holy Spirit, I can use some prayer; and yes, it works.

The issue is my brother is in the final stages of cancer and we are in the process of forgiving, being forgiven and saying goodbye.

My brother needs prayer for comfort in his final days, decreased pain, to feel the love for him, and to transition easily into the Father's house where a place has been prepared for him.

His care taker is a prayer in motion in his loving attention and he needs prayer to lift up and sustain him and the other care takers.

That I need prayer for is safe travel and a hedge of protection around the people, their homes, and those traveling to see him and attend his funeral.

I need prayer for good relationships among the family members and that my older brother will sober up enough to go see him and settle the years of ugly hurts he's inflicted.

The executors of his estate need prayers for calm interactions and transactions and lifted up in all areas of support and according to their needs.

I need prayers for myself to be mentally present and manage these roiling emotions.

Thank you friends, Amen

[femmefatale]

My prayers for your Brother, Artemis.

[weltschmerz]

Sept 3, 2012 19:53:20 GMT -5 Opti said:

It is a self-fulfilling prophecy yes. If you believe it will happen. (The when part is a bit sticky though.)


Placebo effect, it can be, but IMO thinking of it that way is saying all people who get healed by Pencillin do so simply because of the placebo effect not because it actually works ignoring that effect. Prayer has been studied scientifically. It does work.

I can show you scientific studies that say it doesn't.
***Prayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found.

And patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers suggested.

Because it is the most scientifically rigorous investigation of whether prayer can heal illness, the study, begun almost a decade ago and involving more than 1,800 patients, has for years been the subject of speculation.

The question has been a contentious one among researchers. Proponents have argued that prayer is perhaps the most deeply human response to disease, and that it may relieve suffering by some mechanism that is not yet understood. Skeptics have contended that studying prayer is a waste of money and that it presupposes supernatural intervention, putting it by definition beyond the reach of science.
www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?pagewanted=all

[Deleted]

God works in mysterious ways Welts.

[weltschmerz]

If a person is absolutely convinced that putting cotton candy in one ear and rabbit droppings in the other to heal migraines or PMS....yes, it could work. It's a lot like voodoo. Tell someone superstitious from the Islands that the Obeah Man put a curse on them and it's possible that they will sicken and die.

[weltschmerz]

Sept 3, 2012 20:36:04 GMT -5 @shooby said:

God works in mysterious ways Welts.

I don't believe in God.

[Artemis Windsong]

Sept 3, 2012 20:37:52 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Sept 3, 2012 20:36:04 GMT -5 @shooby said:

God works in mysterious ways Welts.

I don't believe in God.

You will. It's better to believe now rather than be disappointed when there is no audience for you. I have seen some interesting words come out of atheists mouths. It's usually Thank God after some miraculous something.

[weltschmerz]

Sept 3, 2012 20:46:41 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

Sept 3, 2012 20:37:52 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I don't believe in God.

You will. It's better to believe now rather than be disappointed when there is no audience for you. I have seen some interesting words come out of atheists mouths. It's usually Thank God after some miraculous something.

You mean like Pascal's Wager and hedging my bets? I suppose I could PRETEND to believe, but in my heart of hearts, I don't.

[weltschmerz]

Our poster, Sparkle, who just passed away...well, I just read on another board that a transfusion could have saved her, but she refused. She was a Jehova's Witness. Her superstitions killed her. I find that impossibly sad.
Yeah, "God" works in mysterious ways.

[femmefatale]

[Opti]

Sept 3, 2012 21:14:14 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Our poster, Sparkle, who just passed away...well, I just read on another board that a transfusion could have saved her, but she refused. She was a Jehova's Witness. Her superstitions killed her. I find that impossibly sad.
Yeah, "God" works in mysterious ways.

That's not God working in mysterious ways its Sparkle willing to die on that hill believing(IMO wrongly) that's what God would have wanted.

Impossibly sad happens in instances of any religion or none.