What does prayer mean to you? Is it OK if someone

[Opti]

prays for you?

This thread is inspired by the Non-Religious thread and I wanted to give a space to the non-believers in God and the believers so discussing the issue wouldn't pollute either the religious or non-religious threads.

My views have evolved over the years and I am somewhat of a spiritual mutt. While I was raised Lutheran my concept of prayer has changed a lot and one phrase from a song sums it up rather nicely.

Our thoughts are prayers, consider what you are saying.



I believe in God as Love and a creative force. What I pray/think can become into being using that force some of us call God. Because of that belief I am a little sad Loop was offended by people praying for her as since we both know Religious Science type prayer is different - I had hoped she wouldn't feel that way. (In Religious Science you are taught it is not cool to pray for someone to be the way you'd like if they don't want to be that way. The catch all prayer phrase concerning others is actually 'for their highest and best' to allow for their wishes and God's wishes to over-rule the desires of the person offering the prayer.)



So what does prayer mean to you?
How do you feel about it when someone offers to pray for you and why?

[Deleted]

I try to take it in the manner in which it was given. If they say they are praying for me over an illness, bad situation or difficulties, etc. then i take that as a sign of support. If they tell me they are praying in the hopes that i will stop being such a jerk, then maybe not so much.

[mmhmm]

I try to look at the thought behind it, as Shooby does. It certainly doesn't bother me if prayers are offered for surcease of pain, trouble, illness, loss, or angst. It doesn't even bother me much if somebody prays that I'll learn to be a Christian, or any other sort of believer. They mean well and that's what's important, I suppose.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Prayer is very important to me. It is uplifting and comforting. Helps me get my head on straight. 95% of my prayers are in Thanksgiving. The rest are prayers for others or requests for guidance. Obviously, I am grateful for all prayers on my behalf.

If I know somebody is offended by being told I will pray for them - I just don't tell them. I don't feel the need to announce it. However, I'm not sure I understand how someone can be offended by something they don't even believe in. Let's say I don't believe in chocolate chips. How could I be offended by someone saying they are going to make me some chocolate chip cookies when I don't even believe they exist? It makes no sense to me.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

As mmhmm said. If it's for something like an illness or grieving, etc, I consider it supportive if someone offers to pray for me - to me it means they're wishing me ease from my pain (whether physical or emotional).

If they tell me they're praying for my soul, just a simple thanks will suffice.

[mmhmm]

Thing is, I think, GEL, chocolate chips aren't a part of you at soul-level. Spiritual beliefs are. They're very deep, and well-ingrained in adults. There can be all sorts of reasons why someone might not believe, and all sorts of reasons why offers of prayer might offend under certain conditions. We really can't fully understand another's deepest feelings. That's why offense, while not meant, might be taken. There's no wrong on either side ... just a lack of understanding of one another's feelings.

[kittensaver]

I'll take all the help I can get, thank you very much!

My God isn't any better than your God, and vice versa

[Opti]

"If I know somebody is offended by being told I will pray for them - I just don't tell them."

Actually that is why I ask, because if they don't want me to pray for them I won't. I feel it is presumptuous to pray for someone if they do not want to be prayed for. It coincides with my healing modalities and beliefs. I won't try to help heal someone unless they are OK with it. My animals can't give permission so AJ does get some Qi Gong healing when he is sick. I do though, stop doing it if it seems to bother them so they aren't as helpless as it seems since they can't talk or complain.


Prayer is important to me too, but I use many different forms from Affirmative Prayer to positive thoughts. I don't do mostly Gratitude type prayers but that is a step in the standard Affirmative Prayer form I use.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Sept 1, 2012 9:55:16 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Thing is, I think, GEL, chocolate chips aren't a part of you at soul-level. Spiritual beliefs are. They're very deep, and well-ingrained in adults. There can be all sorts of reasons why someone might not believe, and all sorts of reasons why offers of prayer might offend under certain conditions. We really can't fully understand another's deepest feelings. That's why offense, while not meant, might be taken. There's no wrong on either side ... just a lack of understanding of one another's feelings.

I respect that. I certainly wouldn't announce that I was praying for someone who was offended by it. As for "all sorts of reasons why" someone is offended by prayer? I guess I was looking for just one.

It's not important. It's just something I've always wondered about.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Sept 1, 2012 10:10:38 GMT -5 Opti said:

"If I know somebody is offended by being told I will pray for them - I just don't tell them."

Actually that is why I ask, because if they don't want me to pray for them I won't. I feel it is presumptuous to pray for someone if they do not want to be prayed for. It coincides with my healing modalities and beliefs. I won't try to help heal someone unless they are OK with it. My animals can't give permission so AJ does get some Qi Gong healing when he is sick. I do though, stop doing it if it seems to bother them so they aren't as helpless as it seems since they can't talk or complain.


Prayer is important to me too, but I use many different forms from Affirmative Prayer to positive thoughts. I don't do mostly Gratitude type prayers but that is a step in the standard Affirmative Prayer form I use.

I can understand that. I just don't agree its "presumptuous". I wouldn't consider it presumptuous to render aid to a child bleeding in the street and I don't consider it presumptuous to pray for someone who is hurting or in trouble. I know all don't agree and that's ok.

[mmhmm]

I hear you, GEL, but there isn't just one reason. Most aren't bothered by prayers being offered to them for major, stressful events in their lives; yet, some are. They don't want prayers and are offended by the offer as they feel it negates their right not to believe and to have their right not to believe respected. Some had bad experiences with churches, or their parents regarding churches, or church people, or pastors ... like I said, there are a lot of reasons. A lot more non-believers are irritated by prayers being offered for "their souls". They figure "their souls" belong to them and nobody else should be praying for a change in "their souls". While it doesn't bother me, I can certainly understand why it would bother some. Say I was a Wiccan and told you we'd all dance naked and chant for you at our next coven gathering in hopes of bringing you to "the light". Somehow, I don't think that would go over too well.

[Loopdilou]

To start off, I was very specific that it is a gut level reaction to find it offensive. You have to remember I spent years being condemned and having daily comments made about how they'd pray for me because I was going to hell.

That said - I would genuinely prefer that people not waste my time or theirs with "thoughts." If you see me struggling, help me. If you're praying for my salvation.. go eff yourself. No, I don't believe the action does any good, but I do find it insulting because of the motivations.

Make sense?

[mrsdutt]

I believe that prayer is a conversation with God. I have seen miracles happen through that conversation. But, if a person doesn't believe in prayer, I leave them -again- to their own device. We are all adults and, hopefully, know what we want from life. As a footnote, God certainly doesn't need my help proving His existence. He did OK without me for centuries.

[Jaguar]

I have been prayed for by peeps of other non Christian faiths and it's as powerful as any other prayer that I've received. And I only found out after the fact and that made it so much more powerful. It actually scared the bejeepers out of me that it was that powerful.

[femmefatale]

What does prayer mean to me? It is a spiritual stepping block for me, to get through my day. it comforts me, soothes me and makes me feel much much closer to God. As GEL mentioned, I like to pray for others, and no, they don't know it. Whatever I feel compelled to pray about, that's what I do. I more like to pray and thank Him, because I know without Him, I would be nothing. SO prayer is a necessity for me.

[mrsdutt]

LOOP said: To start off, I was very specific that it is a gut level reaction to find it offensive. You have to remember I spent years being condemned and having daily comments made about how they'd pray for me because I was going to hell.

We were in NYC, staying at the Ronald McDonald House. My DD1 was 15 and made friends with one of the boys who was undergoing treatment for cancer. Her beloved friend passed and she was so very and deeply sad. She had friends who were from a local Christian church who invited her to a teen something or other. Her (then) best friend told her he went to Hell because he was Jewish. You can't imagine how angry she became and hurt. Thankfully she came to us for guidance. We smoothed the feathers as much as we could. (DH 's wisdom was to tell her her friend was an ignorant azzhole!).

So I sympathize with you for the pain these kids inflicted on you. I am so sorry that you carry this with you. I wish DH was still here to tell you what a bunch of ignorant azzholes they were. because, that's just what they are.

[Loopdilou]

I know that now and I knew that then, the offense exists due to the motivations of the people praying. I was offended, not hurt.

[Opti]

Sept 1, 2012 12:03:05 GMT -5 Jaguar said:

I have been prayed for by peeps of other non Christian faiths and it's as powerful as any other prayer that I've received. And I only found out after the fact and that made it so much more powerful. It actually scared the bejeepers out of me that it was that powerful.

It can be an amazing thing. For those who don't believe it appears or can be nothing. For those who have experienced things we know it can be extremely powerful. Part of the process of becoming a Religious Science minister is actually documenting the effectiveness of some of their prayers.

I do call certain people to pray for me if I am going through some bad stuff.

[Loopdilou]

I'd rather they just cook me a meal. That might actually help.

[mrsdutt]

HM lazagna?

[Reckless Roselia]

Hello Optimist,

Interesting thread as always.

When I first ventured into the realm of message boards then the first thread that captivated me and that I entered was about prayers and if one should say prayers for another person. The thread topic was sparked due to this happening in the UK -

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1237204/Christian-teacher-lost-job-told-praying-sick-girl-bullying.html

(http://www.mid-day.com/news/2009/dec/211209-Olive-Jones-complaint-dismissed.htm)

I found it ridiculous that a teacher got sacked due to a prayer offer.

[femmefatale]

I do call certain people to pray for me if I am going through some bad stuff.

Me too, Optimist...and I find it really helps.

Great thread, btw.

[Reckless Roselia]

Personally, I don't mind if anyone wishes to pray for me - but their intention has to be in the best interest for me. I pray for everyone in my prayers too after praying for myself and my family. But would I go around offering prayers to others, maybe not.

[Loopdilou]

Sept 1, 2012 12:17:28 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

HM lazagna?

That'd be awesome, thanks

Food and a cuppa is the best kind of prayer.

[Deleted]

It's the thought that counts, to me. Praying may or may not do anything but it's a nice gesture all the same.

[trevorw2539]

Sept 1, 2012 12:23:15 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

Sept 1, 2012 12:17:28 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

HM lazagna?

That'd be awesome, thanks

Food and a cuppa is the best kind of prayer.

Problem. Practicalities. Prayer.

What is the problem. Can it be alleviated by practical help, and if so, do it. Prayer for those occasions when/where necessary.

Oh. And I'll have some lasagne please

[Green Eyed Lady]

Sept 1, 2012 10:49:04 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I hear you, GEL, but there isn't just one reason. Most aren't bothered by prayers being offered to them for major, stressful events in their lives; yet, some are. They don't want prayers and are offended by the offer as they feel it negates their right not to believe and to have their right not to believe respected. Some had bad experiences with churches, or their parents regarding churches, or church people, or pastors ... like I said, there are a lot of reasons. A lot more non-believers are irritated by prayers being offered for "their souls". They figure "their souls" belong to them and nobody else should be praying for a change in "their souls". While it doesn't bother me, I can certainly understand why it would bother some. Say I was a Wiccan and told you we'd all dance naked and chant for you at our next coven gathering in hopes of bringing you to "the light". Somehow, I don't think that would go over too well.

Actually, it wouldn't bother me a bit because there is no possible way it could hurt me. Why would it bother me?

I do want to watch tho cause I'm way too shy to participate!

[Green Eyed Lady]

Sept 1, 2012 11:46:09 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

To start off, I was very specific that it is a gut level reaction to find it offensive. You have to remember I spent years being condemned and having daily comments made about how they'd pray for me because I was going to hell.

That said - I would genuinely prefer that people not waste my time or theirs with "thoughts." If you see me struggling, help me. If you're praying for my salvation.. go eff yourself. No, I don't believe the action does any good, but I do find it insulting because of the motivations.

Make sense?

Understood, Loop. I hope that you understand that any one who would tell you that you were going to hell isn't a Christian and not representative of those of us who are. There is but one Judge and I ain't him and neither are those who were so rude to you. I'm sorry that you experienced such a thing.

[kittensaver]

I get what Loop is saying. I had an experience in my life where someone told me they were going to pray for me to "save my soul." They were NOT being good to me, they were JUDGING me.

[Green Eyed Lady]

I've been sitting here trying to remember if I've ever prayed for someone's soul. I can't say that I have as I remember anyway. I sort of figure a soul being saved or not is between that soul and God. I really don't think I have.