moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Aug 7, 2012 9:07:33 GMT -5
There was no apology given on the thread muttley... and those of us questioning the decision to delete the thread without a word are being treated like irrational ungrateful children who just came in the house with muddy shoes... and being told that our interpretation of things that were said is unfounded and irrational.... even though it was pretty clear that the words used were the words intended but we are not being given the opportunity to continue the conversation because conflict makes the mods uncomfortable. I don't recall saying that your "interpretation of things that were said is unfounded and irrational." The thread was removed for one reason only- because we flat couldn't keep up with the problems in it. The thread topic was valid and a good subject. Lots of good points were brought up, and... some not so good. Had the debate stayed civil, it wouldn't have been a problem. but when it gets to the point where nothing new is being said, it's turned into a flame-fest and we're getting reports out the ass, it's time for it to go, period. At that time, there was nothing being accomplished. the same things were simply being said over and over, just in different words. everyone was very emotional over it -which i understand. it was evident that everyone needed to cool off, which was why i said to drop it or i'd lock the board for a day or two. I simply can't understand why explosive threads on this subject always disappear. I wouldn't object to them being locked; frankly, that would have been a relief with this last one. But a lot of us put serious time and mental energy into posting on this subject that you all continue insisting we are allowed to discuss. A lot of us, myself included, care deeply about talking through this subject because it MATTERS. It matters about a hundred times more than anything else we talk about on here, yet every single time it goes south the threads are deleted instead of locked so that no one can ever read them or potentially learn from them again. I learned most of what I know about rape culture by reading threads exactly like the teacher thread. YES, they get heated and sometimes need to be halted. I get that. But for the love of Pete, what do you people have against locking and leaving so that we can reread threads when things are calmer?? The thread today upset me so much that I seriously considered leaving the community. Yet I don't want it deleted. Deleting it removes all chance of anyone learning from it. After what I put into it, I'd rather not see the whole thing go to waste. So my only request regarding this mess- I would like to see the thread restored to general viewing, with a lock, so others can read what they missed and perhaps learn something new. Please. Firebird , they get removed because it's too time consuming to have to go through a lengthy thread and remove stuff that would be against either our CoC or Proboards ToS so that it can stay on the public board. you don't realize just how much work it is to do it, especially on a thread like that one. I have other things to do.. All the mods do. so, if someone feels like going through it and making sure it's kosher so to speak, then fine.. it can be brought back in a locked status. but it's not going to be a priority. I've only ever reported posts with very obscene sexual content, and then only because the offenders wouldn't let up and that stuff doesn't belong here. A little innuendo is one thing but all-out graphic descriptions are not something I personally like to see here or feel the need to tolerate since that's ostensibly why EE is there. no that's NOT why ee is there. it's not allowed there either.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Aug 7, 2012 9:08:20 GMT -5
what part did they violate?? ETA: we really should have subboard just for Firebird... I have no idea who reported what - I didn't report anything. But there was a post where MuscleUp told Firebird (I'm paraphrasing here) that she needed to get some therapy and stop whining about being raped because no man is going to want to hear about her complaining. That's pretty clearly a personal attack. how is suggesting someone get therapy a personal attack?? if it is, then about 1/2 of the posters here have personally attacked me!! I can't discuss this anymore today via PB, I promised moon i would be extra good. ;D
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 7, 2012 9:09:20 GMT -5
I have no idea who reported what - I didn't report anything. But there was a post where MuscleUp told Firebird (I'm paraphrasing here) that she needed to get some therapy and stop whining about being raped because no man is going to want to hear about her complaining. That's pretty clearly a personal attack. Yes, yes it is. However, she obviously complained about our banter on the "do you answer your door" thread, since she thanked you for reprimanding him over there. Beer, are you referring to me? I didn't reprimand anybody on the door thread and have focused on how the system - not the individuals - works or doesn't work. My issue here is not with any particular person, it's with the system of moderating and how things are applied.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 9:11:02 GMT -5
I was referring to Firebird complaining to mmhmm, milee. Sorry for the confusion.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 7, 2012 9:11:38 GMT -5
The thing is? If you don't care for a poster, suddenly their posts become more "offensive". MU doesn't post anymore sexual innuendo than about 10 people on this board. In fact? There's usually 10 people in his threads matching him tit for tat. But who gets in trouble? MU. I dont' know why.
Everybody has their melting points. For some, its SA. For others, it name-calling. I found it far less aggravating to be here when I started using my "ignore" button instead of my "report" button (I've reported one post since I've been here).
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2012 9:11:48 GMT -5
Like I said... I couldn't care less if people think I'm being too sensitive or whatever. There IS a portion of the CoC which prohibits explicit and obscene content. I've only reported four posts in my entire time on YM (here and before) so I don't think the problem is my itchy trigger finger. All four posts had completely hijacked a thread about something else entirely and were so obscene it made me physically nauseated to read them. Ignoring the posters did no good because people kept quoting the posts.
So yeah. All I did was report them. I'm not a mod, so what they did with the reports was up to them. I don't think anyone got worse than a stern warning due to my reports.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 7, 2012 9:13:13 GMT -5
...:::Had the debate stayed civil, it wouldn't have been a problem. but when it gets to the point where nothing new is being said, it's turned into a flame-fest and we're getting reports out the ass, it's time for it to go, period.:::...
The debate wasn't particularly uncivil nor was it a flame fest. There was disagreement, but still new points being made.
If it's too much work to moderate, either add more moderators or temporarily lock the thread while it gets worked through, but removing the whole thing creates the wrong impression and is insulting to the people who are working within the defined system - CoC - to discuss issues.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Aug 7, 2012 9:13:39 GMT -5
Like I said... I couldn't care less if people think I'm being too sensitive or whatever. There IS a portion of the CoC which prohibits explicit and obscene content. I've only reported four posts in my entire time on YM (here and before) so I don't think the problem is my itchy trigger finger. All four posts had completely hijacked a thread about something else entirely and were so obscene it made me physically nauseated to read them. Ignoring the posters did no good because people kept quoting the posts. So yeah. All I did was report them. I'm not a mod, so what they did with the reports was up to them. I don't think anyone got worse than a stern warning due to my reports. the problem may be that you think "penis" is obscene :-)
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2012 9:14:03 GMT -5
what part did they violate?? ETA: we really should have subboard just for Firebird... I have no idea who reported what - I didn't report anything. But there was a post where MuscleUp told Firebird (I'm paraphrasing here) that she needed to get some therapy and stop whining about being raped because no man is going to want to hear about her complaining. That's clearly a personal attack. Actually, that wasn't even one of the four posts I've reported. My reply to him was deleted though
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 9:14:12 GMT -5
the problem may be that you think "penis" is obscene :-) Yours? yes.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Aug 7, 2012 9:15:34 GMT -5
the problem may be that you think "penis" is obscene :-) Yours? yes. <<must refrain from making comment that FB might find obscene>>
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 9:16:32 GMT -5
...:::Had the debate stayed civil, it wouldn't have been a problem. but when it gets to the point where nothing new is being said, it's turned into a flame-fest and we're getting reports out the ass, it's time for it to go, period.:::... The debate wasn't particularly uncivil nor was it a flame fest. There was disagreement, but still new points being made. If it's too much work to moderate, either add more moderators or temporarily lock the thread while it gets worked through, but removing the whole thing creates the wrong impression and is insulting to the people who are working within the defined system - CoC - to discuss issues.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 7, 2012 9:17:21 GMT -5
why is "not reporting" suddenly a virtue? because if someone reports every little thing, they're a whine ass cry baby. But, some things should be reported.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 9:18:02 GMT -5
Everything in MODeration.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Aug 7, 2012 9:18:37 GMT -5
why is "not reporting" suddenly a virtue? it makes some posters feel virtuous
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Wizard of Id
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Post by Wizard of Id on Aug 7, 2012 9:19:44 GMT -5
Everything in MODeration. ;D
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 7, 2012 9:20:39 GMT -5
because if someone reports every little thing, they're a whine ass cry baby. But, some things should be reported. And then we are publicly scolded to grow the ef up, and threated with a ban...
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2012 9:22:19 GMT -5
I have no idea who reported what - I didn't report anything. But there was a post where MuscleUp told Firebird (I'm paraphrasing here) that she needed to get some therapy and stop whining about being raped because no man is going to want to hear about her complaining. That's pretty clearly a personal attack. Yes, yes it is. However, she obviously complained about our banter on the "do you answer your door" thread, since she thanked mmhmm for reprimanding him over there. *edited to remove confusion Not sure what to tell you, beer. Sorry if you don't like the fact that I don't want to read that crap, especially on one of MY threads. MU's hilarious quips had taken over the whole thread. Like I said, all I did was report one of the worst. I let the mods judge from there. And clearly I wasn't the only one with a problem if he's now been banned. If the rest of us can stay decent enough to avoid that, I don't see why it's too much to ask of him.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 7, 2012 9:23:40 GMT -5
...:::Had the debate stayed civil, it wouldn't have been a problem. but when it gets to the point where nothing new is being said, it's turned into a flame-fest and we're getting reports out the ass, it's time for it to go, period.:::... The debate wasn't particularly uncivil nor was it a flame fest. There was disagreement, but still new points being made. If it's too much work to moderate, either add more moderators or temporarily lock the thread while it gets worked through, but removing the whole thing creates the wrong impression and is insulting to the people who are working within the defined system - CoC - to discuss issues. By deleting it and deleting it rather quickly, you put those of us who missed the last 30 minutes to an hour of the thread in a position of not knowing what had happened and being concerned about some of the posters on the thread. Didn't we also just have a discussion a month ago about deleting threads and giving at least a quick explanation for it?
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Aug 7, 2012 9:24:02 GMT -5
Yes, yes it is. However, she obviously complained about our banter on the "do you answer your door" thread, since she thanked mmhmm for reprimanding him over there. *edited to remove confusion Not sure what to tell you, beer. Sorry if you don't like the fact that I don't want to read that crap, especially on one of MY threads. MU's hilarious quips had taken over the whole thread. Like I said, all I did was report one of the worst. I let the mods judge from there. And clearly I wasn't the only one with a problem if he's now been banned. If the rest of us can stay decent enough to avoid that, I don't see why it's too much to ask of him. yeah beer! how dare you question FB and how dare MU post some helpful advice on HER thread!!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 7, 2012 9:24:30 GMT -5
Yes, we did. And it was about as productive as this time.
And I still think that if your most reasonable, rational, and nondramatic posters are calling bullshit, you might want to re-evaluate your actions.
There's nothing wrong with saying "Gee, that probably wasn't hte best way to handle it" instead of threating to take your ball and go home.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Aug 7, 2012 9:25:35 GMT -5
Yes, we did. And it was about as productive as this time. don't we generally have the same discussions every month or so?? cars houses investments sex
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 7, 2012 9:26:41 GMT -5
If it was intended to be helpful advice, it should have been phrased a bit differently.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 9:27:01 GMT -5
Yes, we did. And it was about as productive as this time. And I still think that if your most reasonable, rational, and nondramatic posters are calling bullshit, you might want to re-evaluate your actions. There's nothing wrong with saying "Gee, that probably wasn't hte best way to handle it" instead of threating to take your ball and go home.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 7, 2012 9:27:30 GMT -5
why is "not reporting" suddenly a virtue? because if someone reports every little thing, they're a whine ass cry baby. But, some things should be reported. Yeah, and I've admitted to reporting four posts in more than six years. SIX YEARS, people. I hardly think that qualifies as "whiny ass crybaby." It's not like I'm reporting a post once a week, or even once a YEAR if you want to get technical. But hey, apparently I'm the bad guy because I don't care to read about which YMer this poster or that one wants to fuck this week, and how. So be it then.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2012 9:28:05 GMT -5
Not sure what to tell you, beer. Sorry if you don't like the fact that I don't want to read that crap, especially on one of MY threads. MU's hilarious quips had taken over the whole thread. Like I said, all I did was report one of the worst. I let the mods judge from there. And clearly I wasn't the only one with a problem if he's now been banned. If the rest of us can stay decent enough to avoid that, I don't see why it's too much to ask of him. yeah beer! how dare you question FB and how dare MU post some helpful advice on HER thread!! Got it! I will PM you a copy of any post I would like to post on one of YOUR threads before I hit enter. ETA: (I don't think anyone has accused you of compulsive reporting Firebird)
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Aug 7, 2012 9:28:34 GMT -5
If it was intended to be helpful advice, it should have been phrased a bit differently. from what i recall....a lot of things should have been rephrased yesterday :-)
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 7, 2012 9:28:59 GMT -5
because if someone reports every little thing, they're a whine ass cry baby. But, some things should be reported. Yeah, and I've admitted to reporting four posts in more than six years. SIX YEARS, people. I hardly think that qualifies as "whiny ass crybaby." It's not like I'm reporting a post once a week, or even once a YEAR if you want to get technical. But hey, apparently I'm the bad guy because I don't care to read about which YMer this poster or that one wants to fuck this week, and how. So be it then. I didn't call you one. I answered Rukh's question. I said over reporting makes you a cry baby. I have no idea how many posts you've reported, but 4 doesn't count as a crybaby. ETA: Not every post is about you. You're usually not this touchy. Some posts yesterday were completely over hte top and not called for and were personal against you. However, consider the source here. Step back and breathe.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Aug 7, 2012 9:29:06 GMT -5
yeah beer! how dare you question FB and how dare MU post some helpful advice on HER thread!! Got it! I will PM you a copy of any post I would like to post on one of YOUR threads before I hit enter.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 7, 2012 9:31:23 GMT -5
because if someone reports every little thing, they're a whine ass cry baby. But, some things should be reported. I would think if a post if reported, then either the post needs moderation, or the reporter needs to be told why that post shouldn't have been reported, or dealt with as serial frivolous reporter. I think that was exactly the problem yesterday. As Moon has said, there were so many reports that they couldn't be dealt with. That's why I'm saying we need more mods so this doesn't happen again.
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