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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 31, 2012 17:43:04 GMT -5
. The world tells us who the winners are. Wealth, fame, power, etc. As for the winners spiritually? I'm not sure. Looks can be deceiving. For the original question I wonder if poverty in close quarters makes it easier for violence to erupt than smaller towns where people are spread out. When you have a lot of people in one place and therefore access to more customers crime probably pays well versus in small towns and rural areas. Plus with larger cities as some posters noted the richer clients can drive in. ...looks can be, and usually are, deceiving... ...and poverty in the urban density may lead to more violence than poverty in the rural sprawl simply due to the "known" factor of the victim... one is nameless, and subsequently value-less, in the masses...
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 31, 2012 17:44:02 GMT -5
I've been out of school for a while, so remind me, is that the one that's stronger than gravity but weaker than magnetism, or is it the other way around? It's different. You are a Loneist now, shouldn't you have an idea what I mean?
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 31, 2012 17:48:23 GMT -5
Just thinking that maybe for someone living lifes over and over learning new things about life - that at some point they'd figure out that 'right' and 'wrong' - good and evil are pretty much subjective and dependant upon perspective. I would think that if you lived enough lives and expereince enough stuff you'd start to feel that events/actions are neither good nor bad (in the big picture) and that there aren't any "world wide" lessons to be learned... as there is no 'world wide' consciousness that can remember those lessons.
Well, OK unless you believe something can be omnibenevolent or omnimalevolent... I can never wrap my mind around the Omni characteristic god(s).
Brings to mind Lord of the Flies - don't people rapidly regress from 'civilization' when left to their own devices?
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 31, 2012 17:54:45 GMT -5
I am also surprised by the number of posters who would be bored with an infinite amount of time. We are such a tiny speck in an infinite universe there is no end to the things we can learn and create if we were given the opportunity. Is it safe to assume that you are spending your time now being the best that you can be? If you are wasting time in this life how are you gonna get motivated to entertain yourself during eternity - 100 years? 1000 years 10,000 years a BILLION years and even more... Of course, if you are one of the people who is actively participating in their life (and can entertain yourself for a few hours while the power is out) then maybe an eon or two of 'eternal life' won't be so bad... I image that when it gets to be a BILLION eons that stuff is gonna start getting old and ennui will set in.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 31, 2012 17:55:54 GMT -5
That wouldn't work though, since some of us weren't here at the time to learn the lesson anyway. You just said like a page or two ago that it doesn't work just watching it from the other side, you have to experience it.
Well at least we can agree on something. I think he was just a sick son of a bitch, and should have been put down earlier.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 17:57:48 GMT -5
Evolution of the soul means someone has to be at the bottom, although the bottom may move the top never does.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 31, 2012 18:10:08 GMT -5
If he did he's a friggin moron. He's not the first person to try and eradicate another ethnic group or religion.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 31, 2012 18:13:04 GMT -5
No.
That's one explanation. You already know what I'm going to say the second explanation is though.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 31, 2012 18:18:33 GMT -5
We felt bad for sitting on the sidelines so long, so we gave the surviving Jews a chunk of land in the middle of Muslim countries which planted a little seed of hatred and resentment that's probably going to fester for another couple hundred years. Like we'd learned nothing by giving the Mormons that Utah. We should have brought them all over and given them Wyoming or something.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 31, 2012 18:18:56 GMT -5
Not that I can remember. No.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 31, 2012 18:24:03 GMT -5
That's not the only possible explanation, Lone.
Your subconscious can pick up on a lot of things your conscious brain never touches. So a funny feeling or premonition you get is usually just your reptile brain saying, "RUN!"
I think it's pretty sad if the only way you can possibly have empathy for another person's situation is to go through their pain yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 18:26:43 GMT -5
I can't speak on the spiritual differences between men and women, but look:
It's not like the USA is the only country in existence. We have case histories, logs, studies and precedents from hundreds of countries. All of them have tried in their own way to alleviate poverty and crime. That shit's recorded.
If poor welfare scammers are causing crime, why the does strong safety net countries like Canada, Japan and Germany have half or less of our crime, but places like Russia and Venezuela the Honduras with heavy "work or starve" systems have twice (or more) of our crime?
Some people are scammers. They can be poor, or they can be ripping you off from above, within a company. Some people also scam their way through college and such at the middle level.
Scamming happens at ALL levels.
Humans will always have some scammers, in every society. I say deal with it, and let's find a way to make our space safer. We have hundreds of nations to study and compare, and all of their histories. We are NOT in a vacuum.
Now, if someone tells me that the mothers/schools/moral fiber/poor people in Canada and the UK are better than those in the USA and Russia, please SAY WHY you think they're doing better in some countries than others.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 18:30:28 GMT -5
As to the depression vs. now: It is well recorded that our wealth gaps have increased significantly over the last century. I am positing that wealth disparities and corruption are linked to crime levels in countries.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 31, 2012 18:31:22 GMT -5
As to the depression vs. now: It is well recorded that our wealth gaps have increased significantly over the last century. I am positing that wealth disparities and corruption are linked to crime levels in countries. ...what kind of corruption?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 18:34:12 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 18:35:21 GMT -5
Because as long as the starving masses are getting fed, they have no reason to come and eat you. I'd rather that than get raped, shot, or robbed like is so frequent in most "work or starve" countries. Peace has a price.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 31, 2012 18:39:03 GMT -5
...government's corruption having a direct impact on violent crime among the populace? interesting... ...and, fwiw, I think it's misleading to compare us to Germany, with half the USA's crimes, since they have about a quarter of the population... just mho...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 18:40:46 GMT -5
I'd rather that than get raped, shot, or robbed like is so frequent in most "work or starve" countries. Peace has a price. And what happens when there is no more food to give? What makes you think it's going to run out? Nearly all countries with good safety nets have stable or declining birth rates; Japan is going backwards. There's strong incentives in the Netherlands to have kids, because they're not having kids either.
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Post by Opti on Jul 31, 2012 18:41:26 GMT -5
Why would the US run out of food? Not sure if it is true but I once read the problem is not there isn't enough food as much as the food is not evenly distributed to where people are.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 18:43:12 GMT -5
...government's corruption having a direct impact on violent crime among the populace? interesting... ...and, fwiw, I think it's misleading to compare us to Germany, with half the USA's crimes, since they have about a quarter of the population... just mho... May I compare the USA to many countries with good safety nets as an aggregate then? Please compare the USA to France, Germany, the UK, and the Netherlands as an aggregate. All have half or less the crime that we do.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 31, 2012 18:46:22 GMT -5
...government's corruption having a direct impact on violent crime among the populace? interesting... ...and, fwiw, I think it's misleading to compare us to Germany, with half the USA's crimes, since they have about a quarter of the population... just mho... May I compare the USA to many countries with good safety nets as an aggregate then? Please compare the USA to France, Germany, the UK, and the Netherlands as an aggregate. All have half or less the crime that we do. ...it's a good line of questioning... I'll grant you that... but per capita, their crime rates are much higher than ours... so it does beg the question as to why... ...and their cultures vary enough to also point to other identifiers that may explain any proclivities to violence... or lack thereof... ...imo...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 18:50:18 GMT -5
May I compare the USA to many countries with good safety nets as an aggregate then? Please compare the USA to France, Germany, the UK, and the Netherlands as an aggregate. All have half or less the crime that we do. ...it's a good line of questioning... I'll grant you that... but per capita, their crime rates are much higher than ours... so it does beg the question as to why... ...and their cultures vary enough to also point to other identifiers that may explain any proclivities to violence... or lack thereof... ...imo... Please point me to statistics? I have only been using per capita crime levels. For culture, the Netherlands were vikings, and all of Europe was a broil of wars for centuries. What about their culture makes you feel that way? *edit: Japan also has a long history of warriors; I can't really find a long standing nation that doesn't.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 31, 2012 18:52:12 GMT -5
No they aren't. Per capita the violent crime rate in most of Europe is far lower than ours. Like close to half. The graphic below is interesting. Look at the individual states. Lot's more murders in the south and south west. Almost like cartel gangs and drug warfare are spreading up from Mexico. Nah.. couldn't be. The government would never purposely ignore a problem like that, and surely the media would be reporting on it. ETA - Dang it, the legend wasn't part of the picture. Darker is more, lighter is less, and each step up in shade corresponds to roughly a doubling in the crime rate.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 18:56:33 GMT -5
Why would the US run out of food? Not sure if it is true but I once read the problem is not there isn't enough food as much as the food is not evenly distributed to where people are. It's not just food. We have been providing shelter and heat, things that all require resources that may not be available for much longer. Yes. My argument is that wealth disparity and corruption seem to be correlated with violence. When it comes to it, I believe we can trim our desires to sustainable levels, and fulfill our needs.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 31, 2012 18:56:47 GMT -5
...it's a good line of questioning... I'll grant you that... but per capita, their crime rates are much higher than ours... so it does beg the question as to why... ...and their cultures vary enough to also point to other identifiers that may explain any proclivities to violence... or lack thereof... ...imo... Please point me to statistics? I have only been using per capita crime levels. For culture, the Netherlands were vikings, and all of Europe was a broil of wars for centuries. What about their culture makes you feel that way? *edit: Japan also has a long history of warriors; I can't really find a long standing nation that doesn't. ...I don't have definitive statistics... but a quick internet search yields this: www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/countries-with-highest-reported-crime-rates.html ...and I'm not sure what you're asking about how a feel this way... I only feel curious... could you rephrase the question, maybe? ...and fwiw, it's not my intent to argue with anyone... I'm just bouncing ideas back and forth in the thread, about the link between poverty and violence...
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Post by midjd on Jul 31, 2012 18:58:17 GMT -5
No they aren't. Per capita the violent crime rate in most of Europe is far lower than ours. Like close to half. The graphic below is interesting. Look at the individual states. Lot's more murders in the south and south west. Almost like cartel gangs and drug warfare are spreading up from Mexico. Nah.. couldn't be. The government would never purposely ignore a problem like that, and surely the media would be reporting on it. ETA - Dang it, the legend wasn't part of the picture. Darker is more, lighter is less, and each step up in shade corresponds to roughly a doubling in the crime rate. So looks like Central Africa is the place to be! Or maybe Greenland
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Post by Opti on Jul 31, 2012 19:00:20 GMT -5
Why would the US run out of food? Not sure if it is true but I once read the problem is not there isn't enough food as much as the food is not evenly distributed to where people are. It's not just food. We have been providing shelter and heat, things that all require resources that may not be available for much longer. I think government supplies money towards shelter and utilities more than the actual housing and utilities themselves. Any reason you think housing or the ability to heat one's living space is going to disappear anytime soon?
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 31, 2012 19:00:56 GMT -5
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 31, 2012 19:01:39 GMT -5
Grey is insufficient stats. It was a much better picture with the legend below it. Stupid internet. It never works right when I need it too.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 31, 2012 19:04:32 GMT -5
Any Canadians here? What's up with those northern provinces? I have to imagine they're pretty sparsely populated. Is it a few cases of cabin fever type situations throwing the stats off or what? The map is showing the intentional homicide rate per 100,000 people.
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