happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 26, 2012 13:56:36 GMT -5
"I have a friend who deeply considered giving up her 10 month old for adoption. She loves her child like nothing else, but financially she couldn't afford him." Andn that honestly blows my mind...FWIW, I think she would have been haunted once she recovered financially...being broke can be temporary, giving your child away is forever...of course, maybe she wouldn't have and I'm projecting how I would have felt on her... See I can see the other side, too. What if you kept your 10 month old and he got attacked by the pit bull your neighbor owns in the crappy apartment you're forced to live in because you're broke. Or he stays constantly sick because the crappy apartment you live in has no heat. Or he gets shot in a drive by shooting while you're walking home to your crappy apartment. How would you feel then, knowing that you could have given him to a couple that had the financial means to take good care of him, but selfishly you kept him hoping that at some point you would be in a better financial position? Wouldn't that haunt you, too, if something happened to your kid because you lived in poverty, knowing that you could have given him more if you hadn't been selfish?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 14:02:51 GMT -5
"Wouldn't that haunt you, too, if something happened to your kid because you lived in poverty, knowing that you could have given him more if you hadn't been selfish? "
You are talking to someone who was raised in poverty...who grew up in government housing...I can assure you, as a child who was raised that way, I would feel horrible knowing that my mother had me, kept me for awhile and then decided she couldn't afford me.
And I didn't realize that all poor people live in apartnments with no heat in neighborhoods that have drive-by shootings...we had heat (government assistance), an apartment (governmetn assistance), food (government assistance) and not once was i ever shot
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 14:04:06 GMT -5
Well, when posting, one must use the most extreme possible examples!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 26, 2012 14:04:55 GMT -5
"Wouldn't that haunt you, too, if something happened to your kid because you lived in poverty, knowing that you could have given him more if you hadn't been selfish? " You are talking to someone who was raised in poverty...who grew up in government housing...I can assure you, as a child who was raised that way, I would feel horrible knowing that my mother had me, kept me for awhile and then decided she couldn't afford me. And I didn't realize that all poor people live in apartnments with no heat in neighborhoods that have drive-by shootings...we had heat (government assistance), an apartment (governmetn assistance), food (government assistance) and not once was i ever shot Pfft, you don't know jack about being poor.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 14:07:04 GMT -5
"Pfft, you don't know jack about being poor." I know...if only I could have been shot to prove I was poor
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 26, 2012 14:22:37 GMT -5
"I wish the stigma around placing a child for adoption was not so great. " I personally wasn't speaking about a woman who made a choice to give up her baby at birth...I completely respect that choice.....but once you are raising a child and that child has bonded with you, how do you decide to walk away??? How you do you look at your child's smiling face and decide that you never want to see that child again? I can't imagine never seeing my children again. Well, you've got the cases where someone who wasn't fit to raise a hamster comes to their senses and realises that the child they are in the process of screwing up would be better off with someone who has their act together. You also have the cases where a person's circumstances change, like mental illness. You can sit on your high horse and judge people who abandon their kids, but like it or not, if you aren't up to the task, keeping the kid around is kind to you but not kind to the kid. People who care about their children will do what is best for them, even if it breaks their hearts to do so.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 26, 2012 14:29:39 GMT -5
On the one hand, of course I can't imagine giving up my child and it's difficult for me to imagine how anyone could.
On the other hand... since I've been pregnant myself I realize how deeply lucky I am to have a positive pregnancy experience. I got pregnant basically the second I wanted to, in a loving and committed relationship with a supportive partner who wanted it as much as I did. Even if physically it had been shit (which it hasn't; I've been lucky on that score also), just having that emotional support during such a tricky time is so deeply stabilizing that I have a hard time imagining how anyone manages without it.
So extrapolating this out... I feel like in most ways I'm starting from the ideal parenting position. I'm happy with my life, I'm stable and healthy mentally/physically/financially, this kid has two solid parents, not to mention a freaking multi-state welcoming committee waiting for her. Of COURSE it's hard for me to imagine giving her up, because I WANT her.
How would I be reacting right now if those things were NOT true for me? How would I be dealing with it if I were a teenage mom and trying to make it work, or a woman in an abusive situation, or just poor as hell? What if I was genuinely trying but I truly didn't feel like I could get my shit together in time to give my kid a decent life?
I guess what I'm saying is this: I had very harsh feelings toward SIL when she was talking about wanting to give up DN. I understand the impulse to judge. But now that I'm going through the whole parenthood thing myself (the EASIEST part of parenting, mind you, in pretty much IDEAL circumstances)... I still think it's terrible when a parent gives up his or her child, but I am much less quick to judge them for doing so now. And I'm much more inclined to give due credit to the fact that it's terrible for EVERYONE. It's not like the kid gets a raw deal while the parent who is giving them up sits there and chuckles.
I don't think anyone gives up a child lightly. I don't even think that's possible. In some cases, where it might really be the best of a group of horrible choices, I just can't bring myself to feel like the parents who have to make that call are horrible people.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 26, 2012 15:09:50 GMT -5
"I have a friend who deeply considered giving up her 10 month old for adoption. She loves her child like nothing else, but financially she couldn't afford him." Andn that honestly blows my mind...FWIW, I think she would have been haunted once she recovered financially...being broke can be temporary, giving your child away is forever...of course, maybe she wouldn't have and I'm projecting how I would have felt on her... She knew she would regret the decision, but she was thinking about what was in the best interest of the child. He was young enough to bond to another care taker and she seriously considered giving him up so that he could be loved by someone who could provide for him much better than she could. She didn't do it, and I'm sure she doesn't regret keeping him. Being broke hasn't been very temporary for her unfortunately, but she loves her son immensely and does everything she can for him.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 26, 2012 15:19:34 GMT -5
Realizing that while you might love your child, you aren't the best person to provide for them and having the selflessness necessary to break your own heart to give them a better shot in life is one of the most amazing things I think a person could do. I doubt I'd have the strength to do it myself. I'd be in awe of anyone who could.
On the flip side, bringing a kid into the world that you literally don't give a damn about, and abandoning them the first chance you get, makes you one of the lowest of the low.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 15:21:34 GMT -5
Realizing that while you might love your child, you aren't the best person to provide for them and having the selflessness necessary to break your own heart to give them a better shot in life is one of the most amazing things I think a person could do. I doubt I'd have the strength to do it myself. I'd be in awe of anyone who could. I think that is why I don't understand it...I would move heaven and earth to keep my kids happy and healthy...I can't imagine just walking away.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 15:22:10 GMT -5
"I wish the stigma around placing a child for adoption was not so great. " I personally wasn't speaking about a woman who made a choice to give up her baby at birth...I completely respect that choice.....but once you are raising a child and that child has bonded with you, how do you decide to walk away??? How you do you look at your child's smiling face and decide that you never want to see that child again? I can't imagine never seeing my children again. You can sit on your high horse Thank you for your permission
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 26, 2012 15:23:17 GMT -5
Agreed, but what if you did everything you could and it still wasn't enough? Would you keep the kids in a bad situation, that you'd tried over and over to make better and just couldn't, because you're too selfish to give them to somebody that could provide a better life for them?
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 26, 2012 15:24:47 GMT -5
Kids can be healthy and happy and still piss poor broke.
Its pointless to try to get into it here, but we can't actually control every part of our lives. We do our best, and some people still don't ever get a break.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 15:26:24 GMT -5
Agreed, but what if you did everything you could and it still wasn't enough? Would you keep the kids in a bad situation, that you'd tried over and over to make better and just couldn't, because you're too selfish to give them to somebody that could provide a better life for them? I can't imagine a situation that I couldn't overcome. And I'm not saying that to be cocky...I am a fighter and I've overcome a lot in life...not overcoming a bad situation isn't something I would consider an option. And I do not believe poverty is a reason to abandon your child...while my childhood sucked, it would have sucked even if we had money.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 15:27:06 GMT -5
Kids can be healthy and happy and still piss poor broke. . Exactly...and being raised poor has made me who I am...I like who I am...
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 26, 2012 15:27:19 GMT -5
Sure, they can also be uneducated, have very few prospects in their future, experience a lot of violence way too young, and have pretty good odds of spending a significant chunk of their adult lives in prison because they're piss poor broke.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 15:29:10 GMT -5
Sure, they can also be uneducated, have very few prospects in their future, experience a lot of violence way too young, and have pretty good odds of spending a significant chunk of their adult lives in prison because they're piss poor broke. Why does being piss poor broke equate to being uneducated and in jail...you and I were both raised piss poor broke and in some pretty shitty environments and we are both educated and don't have adult records
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 15:30:02 GMT -5
I like how you said "adult" records.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 26, 2012 15:30:39 GMT -5
Imagine yourself with health problems that make getting hired at any decent job a bitch, dark skin, a Mexican accent, very little education, etc., etc. Those people are fighters too, but odds are they won't ever climb out of poverty. The world picks winners and losers, and we all like to tell ourselves that we're on the winners side because we're just that great as a person, but the truth is some of the "losers" had the game rigged against them from the beginning and it would have taken a miracle to overcome that.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 26, 2012 15:30:52 GMT -5
Exactly...and being raised poor has made me who I am...I like who I am... I never would have guessed. (And I think self esteem is great. I'm just snarky today).
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 15:31:01 GMT -5
I like how you said "adult" records.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 15:34:35 GMT -5
Exactly...and being raised poor has made me who I am...I like who I am... I never would have guessed. (And I think self esteem is great. I'm just snarky today). LOL...I not only like myself..Im also very self-deprecating...I laughed when I saw that
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 26, 2012 15:36:10 GMT -5
Sure. And the neighbor kid that used to babysit us when I was young is currently serving life in prison for murder. My sister's best friend from that period was raped and murdered at 14 on the pre-school grounds a couple hundred yards from our old house. My best friend from that period ended up hooked on meth, was shot in the back during a drug deal in his living room when he was 16 (his mom was selling), ended up in juevy for a while, then a rehab place, where he eventually worked as a counselor because he was afraid that if he ever left he'd go back to being an addict again. He's just now getting out and getting his life started at 30, with a criminal record. His older brother was in and out of jail/prison for a while before getting his act together too.
So that was the neighbor family. In comparison my siblings and I are doing great, but between the five of us we have one high school diploma and one AA degree. Total. Out of all five of us, three of which were in gifted and talented all through school. That's pretty pathetic.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 15:37:06 GMT -5
Imagine yourself with health problems that make getting hired at any decent job a bitch, dark skin, a Mexican accent, very little education, etc., etc. Those people are fighters too, but odds are they won't ever climb out of poverty. The world picks winners and losers, and we all like to tell ourselves that we're on the winners side because we're just that great as a person, but the truth is some of the "losers" had the game rigged against them from the beginning and it would have taken a miracle to overcome that. All I see are excuses why someone can't get ahead....maybe 30 or 40 years ago but we have a black president now...I'm sorry, I don't think skin color keeps anyone down (yes, there are exceptions)...
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 26, 2012 15:37:40 GMT -5
"Wouldn't that haunt you, too, if something happened to your kid because you lived in poverty, knowing that you could have given him more if you hadn't been selfish? " You are talking to someone who was raised in poverty...who grew up in government housing...I can assure you, as a child who was raised that way, I would feel horrible knowing that my mother had me, kept me for awhile and then decided she couldn't afford me. And I didn't realize that all poor people live in apartnments with no heat in neighborhoods that have drive-by shootings...we had heat (government assistance), an apartment (governmetn assistance), food (government assistance) and not once was i ever shot MissT, so in your opinion the kid would feel better being given up right away for economic reasons or staying with the parents no matter how poor they were? Am I reading that correctly?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 15:40:22 GMT -5
"Wouldn't that haunt you, too, if something happened to your kid because you lived in poverty, knowing that you could have given him more if you hadn't been selfish? " You are talking to someone who was raised in poverty...who grew up in government housing...I can assure you, as a child who was raised that way, I would feel horrible knowing that my mother had me, kept me for awhile and then decided she couldn't afford me. And I didn't realize that all poor people live in apartnments with no heat in neighborhoods that have drive-by shootings...we had heat (government assistance), an apartment (governmetn assistance), food (government assistance) and not once was i ever shot MissT, so in your opinion the kid would feel better being given up right away for economic reasons or staying with the parents no matter how poor they were? Am I reading that correctly? I'm saying I can't imagine giving up my child because of money...I just can't. If my mother gave me up because she couldn't afford me, I would have been devestated...I can't imagine looking my girls in the eyes and saying "you aren't worth the money"....I am obviously different than a lot of other posters on here...
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 15:41:49 GMT -5
Sure. And the neighbor kid that used to babysit us when I was young is currently serving life in prison for murder. My sister's best friend from that period was raped and murdered at 14 on the pre-school grounds a couple hundred yards from our old house. My best friend from that period ended up hooked on meth, was shot in the back during a drug deal in his living room when he was 16 (his mom was selling), ended up in juevy for a while, then a rehab place, where he eventually worked as a counselor because he was afraid that if he ever left he'd go back to being an addict again. He's just now getting out and getting his life started at 30, with a criminal record. His older brother was in and out of jail/prison for a while before getting his act together too. So that was the neighbor family. In comparison my siblings and I are doing great, but between the five of us we have one high school diploma and one AA degree. Total. Out of all five of us, three of which were in gifted and talented all through school. That's pretty pathetic. Then all poor parents should be forced to give up their children...obviously, you grew up in a really rough area but your mom didn't have to live there...being poor doesn't mean you have to make poor choices. She put you in those circumstances...there are lots of poor people that aren't raised in bullet ridden trailer parks, etc.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 26, 2012 15:46:42 GMT -5
"I have a friend who deeply considered giving up her 10 month old for adoption. She loves her child like nothing else, but financially she couldn't afford him." Andn that honestly blows my mind...FWIW, I think she would have been haunted once she recovered financially...being broke can be temporary, giving your child away is forever...of course, maybe she wouldn't have and I'm projecting how I would have felt on her... I admit, I thought about giving my kids away, in mid 2011. It was the last push I needed to get my ass to my new doctor and request that I be re-evaluated for PPD (Bastard old doc. said I was stressed but not depressed when I'd ask him to screen me, then months later when he saw my DH, doc casually asked how my depression was.. . I knew that giving them up was going to scar them, probably permanently. and I didn't really want to give them up. But I was so tired and so struggling to deal with working, the kids, a sick DH and the house stuff. I vividly remember having crying on the freeway thinking "my kids deserve better parents than we are but giving them up would screw them up. I need help." and pretty much getting back from the grocery store and telling DH that I was seeing Dr. Nolan ASAP for happy meds. Edited to fix headbang emoticon in the wrong place
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 15:53:36 GMT -5
Well speaking of the mom of two boys that I adopted I can say I am thankful for the choices their birthmothers made. My boys do know they were adopted and that they grew inside somebody else's tummy and while they have expressed curiosity over their birthmothers, in their minds my husband and I are there parents and they feel lke they are "home". My oldest actually told me that he was said because he wished he grew in my tummy. I told him, I wish the same thing, but we're together now and that's all that matters. Now as they get older (especially through the teen years) I'm sure some more questioning and maybe some feelings of loss will come up, but for now they are healthy, happy and thriving. I'm sure it was difficult for their birthmothers to relinquish them, but from what we know, they were both very young and the poverty in Russia is mindblowing. I am glad they made the selfless choice to relinquish them and I also don't believe biology trumps all. MM, I don't want you to misunderstand what I was saying...earlier I said I can understand someone giving up their baby at birth so they can have a better life (being pro-life I am very much pro-adoption)...I can't imagine doing it after months or years of raising the child. And by then the child is attached to the mom.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 26, 2012 15:55:08 GMT -5
...I can't imagine looking my girls in the eyes and saying " you aren't worth the money"....I am obviously different than a lot of other posters on here... That isn't what I'm saying. I can imagine looking at my child and saying 'you deserve better'. Whether I could actually act on that... Pretty doubtful. I've been lucky in life so far. I hope to gawd it holds out, and I hope that my children get the same luck. I don't know how I would have turned out without that luck.
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