Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 26, 2012 15:57:32 GMT -5
Yes, they are. I'm doing lots better and so is DH. I was in therapy for a while and we upped my happy meds. But I responded well to the lower does for the first 4 months and I'm still on the first drug we tried. DH is doing more around the house. The kids are 4 and 2.75 now. As they get older, it's getting easier. Obviously, I'm not an infant lover...
In my case, I was under a heavy load of stress and depressed. Once we got the stress eased and started dealing with the depression, things got better. And I really glad I didn't give up the kids. DH would have stopped me from doing that anyway. And I never thought about killing them or me, which my doctor got.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 15:58:14 GMT -5
...I can't imagine looking my girls in the eyes and saying " you aren't worth the money"....I am obviously different than a lot of other posters on here... That isn't what I'm saying. I can imagine looking at my child and saying 'you deserve better'. Whether I could actually act on that... Pretty doubtful. I've been lucky in life so far. I hope to gawd it holds out, and I hope that my children get the same luck. I don't know how I would have turned out without that luck. And I obviously have no experience and am going from what I think I would do...but I honestly cannot imagine anythign in this world that would make me give up my children....how do you raise a child for a few years and just give that child away? And I'm not talking about situations where mental illness is involed...of course I don't think Susan Smith or Andrea Yates should have kept their children...
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 15:59:00 GMT -5
Yes, they are. I'm doing lots better and so is DH. I was in therapy for a while and we upped my happy meds. But I responded well to the lower does for the first 4 months and I'm still on the first drug we tried. DH is doing more around the house. The kids are 4 and 2.75 now. As they get older, it's getting easier. Obviously, I'm not an infant lover... In my case, I was under a heavy load of stress and depressed. Once we got the stress eased and started dealing with the depression, things got better. And I really glad I didn't give up the kids. DH would have stopped me from doing that anyway. And I never thought about killing them or me, which my doctor got. Aww...I'm sorry it was so hard on you...and I'm glad you got the help you needed
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 15:59:50 GMT -5
Now that we have beat this dead horse...can we attack the fatties who use Jazzies at Wal-Mart?? It's been ages since we've had that thread
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 26, 2012 16:01:17 GMT -5
...I can't imagine looking my girls in the eyes and saying " you aren't worth the money"....I am obviously different than a lot of other posters on here... That isn't what I'm saying. I can imagine looking at my child and saying 'you deserve better'. Whether I could actually act on that... Pretty doubtful. And that was actually the tipping point for me to get help - realizing that my kids deserved better parents/parenting than they were getting at that time. I couldn't/can't control DH's parenting. but by God I can damn well be better than I was. It's BECAUSE my kids are worth everything that I want to be a better parent.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 26, 2012 16:03:03 GMT -5
Yes, they are. I'm doing lots better and so is DH. I was in therapy for a while and we upped my happy meds. But I responded well to the lower does for the first 4 months and I'm still on the first drug we tried. DH is doing more around the house. The kids are 4 and 2.75 now. As they get older, it's getting easier. Obviously, I'm not an infant lover... In my case, I was under a heavy load of stress and depressed. Once we got the stress eased and started dealing with the depression, things got better. And I really glad I didn't give up the kids. DH would have stopped me from doing that anyway. And I never thought about killing them or me, which my doctor got. Aww...I'm sorry it was so hard on you...and I'm glad you got the help you needed Thanks. I'm glad I did too.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 26, 2012 16:04:43 GMT -5
That isn't what I'm saying. I can imagine looking at my child and saying 'you deserve better'. Whether I could actually act on that... Pretty doubtful. And that was actually the tipping point for me to get help - realizing that my kids deserved better parents/parenting than they were getting at that time. I couldn't/can't control DH's parenting. but by God I can damn well be better than I was. It's BECAUSE my kids are worth everything that I want to be a better parent. Beth, that is exactly what I have been talking about, though...trust me, even though I sit here and say I can't imagine ever acgtually giving my kids away, when my youngest was smaller (shes is special needs) there was more than one time I sat in the middle of my floor in tears because I couldn't do it anymore....I had a fleeting thought of just running away from it all... it took me a long time to admit that to anyone and now I find out from a lot of my girlsfriends that a lot of them had the same thoughts at one point or another.... But how we react to what is going on is the difference. I didn't walk away and neither did you...we both got the help we needed to be the best parents we can be. Now about those jazzies at WAl-Mart....
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 26, 2012 16:08:12 GMT -5
I've had lots of thoughts about running away. Esp. when I think about all the laundry I'm going to be doing due to fleas....
lol
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 26, 2012 16:11:32 GMT -5
I'm out of here for the night. See you all tomorrow. ;D *-*-*- It's raining! It's raining! Woohoo! Hopefully the drought is over and summer will get back on schedule.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 26, 2012 16:15:17 GMT -5
Yes and no. We lived in a government housing project when I was younger. You only qualify if you can't afford to live anywhere else, but that also means you don't really have other options. We eventually got out, but you can't do it until you make enough money to support yourself somewhere else. Situations like that were the whole impetus behind Section 8 vouchers instead of concentrating the poor all in one place and forcing them all to live with the behavior of the lowest common denominator. They were actual houses though. Becoming trailer trash was actually a step up for us because at least we were out of the war zone that was the project.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 26, 2012 17:15:25 GMT -5
...I can't imagine looking my girls in the eyes and saying " you aren't worth the money"....I am obviously different than a lot of other posters on here... That isn't what I'm saying. I can imagine looking at my child and saying 'you deserve better'. Whether I could actually act on that... Pretty doubtful. I've been lucky in life so far. I hope to gawd it holds out, and I hope that my children get the same luck. I don't know how I would have turned out without that luck. I think many of us would see it as Rae is saying but I could see how a child who has no experience with anything else might see it as what MissT is saying. Abandonment is a huge issue which I believe can occur even when you have both parents.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 17:47:57 GMT -5
I have met parents (having been raised in Haiti) that have made the hard choice of giving up their child after they were past their early ages aka from 5 to as old as 17.
It is easy to say you don't see yourself doing it but being a single mother with 3 mouths to feed, no jobs in sight, no support system like in America and watching your kids cry themselves to sleep because they are hungry must be the most gut wrenching thing to go to. Even when you do have a husband/boyfriend, you guys are barely bringing home enough to feed yourself and the kids, already have 3-4 and now your pregnant.
It is not uncommon for them to send their kids (usually Oldest) to live with someone , the therm is "restavek" from French "rest avec". In exhange of cleaning, taking care of the house and maybe their kids in exchange for someplace to sleep, food and maybe if they are lucky the family will send them to school.
It is another form of slavery and they are trying to abolish it now. But unless you are a parent, you don't know. I have a job,my wife has a job and I am scared shitless at the idea of bringing a kid into this world.
Imagine for a second having 3-4, no jobs, no support system, your kids crying because they are hungry, your wife not beig able to breastfeed because she is malnourish and you tell me if someone comes up to you and offers any single one of those kids a slight chance at a better life you would say no?
I know true poverty, I've lived true poverty, I am related to true poverty... Like I said before: been there, done that, got a picture and no way in hell I am going back. No support system, no welfare, no WIC, no unemployment, left to fend for yourself.
That is why I laught my ass off when people say they should cut welfare or any social program that exist in America. I know what that is like and that is why we have so much political instability: when the 99% are hungry, can't feed their kids, dying... You bet your ass they know where to go to get money, food, clothing, etc.
Social welfare is not for the poor, it is a way for the rich to keep the poor appeased and not bothering them.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 27, 2012 9:16:18 GMT -5
That isn't what I'm saying. I can imagine looking at my child and saying 'you deserve better'. Whether I could actually act on that... Pretty doubtful. I've been lucky in life so far. I hope to gawd it holds out, and I hope that my children get the same luck. I don't know how I would have turned out without that luck. And I obviously have no experience and am going from what I think I would do...but I honestly cannot imagine anythign in this world that would make me give up my children....how do you raise a child for a few years and just give that child away? And I'm not talking about situations where mental illness is involed...of course I don't think Susan Smith or Andrea Yates should have kept their children... I still think you're way oversimplifying if you think anyone gives their kid to whom they've already bonded and love away lightly. You can judge them if you want, but it's pretty cruel to imply they just don't love their kids as much as you do.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 27, 2012 9:21:47 GMT -5
I'd find it very hard to have a child if I knew I couldn't afford to feed it. Let alone, myself.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 27, 2012 9:22:36 GMT -5
"I still think you're way oversimplifying if you think anyone gives their kid to whom they've already bonded and love away lightly. You can judge them if you want, but it's pretty cruel to imply they just don't love their kids as much as you do."
I don't think I'm being cruel...this is not a 3rd world country, poverty exists in every part of this nation but there are also safety nets in place so that a child never goes hungry...God knows enough of us bitch about them on a daily basis! This isn't liek what Carl is describing in his home country...women do not have to give their children away or risk them starving to death. I LOATHE welfare, WIC, food stamps, etc...but if it was between my children starving or not and I truly couldn't make enough money, I would do what I needed to do...so in this country, I truly believe that anyone that gives their children away because of money does NOT love them as much as I love mine...a child who is loved and cherished is wealthier than a child raised with money.
Mental illness has been mentioned and that is completely different...for the safety of the children the unstable parent should not be around the children.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Jul 27, 2012 9:32:20 GMT -5
On the one hand, of course I can't imagine giving up my child and it's difficult for me to imagine how anyone could. On the other hand... since I've been pregnant myself I realize how deeply lucky I am to have a positive pregnancy experience. I got pregnant basically the second I wanted to, in a loving and committed relationship with a supportive partner who wanted it as much as I did. Even if physically it had been shit (which it hasn't; I've been lucky on that score also), just having that emotional support during such a tricky time is so deeply stabilizing that I have a hard time imagining how anyone manages without it. So extrapolating this out... I feel like in most ways I'm starting from the ideal parenting position. I'm happy with my life, I'm stable and healthy mentally/physically/financially, this kid has two solid parents, not to mention a freaking multi-state welcoming committee waiting for her. Of COURSE it's hard for me to imagine giving her up, because I WANT her. How would I be reacting right now if those things were NOT true for me? How would I be dealing with it if I were a teenage mom and trying to make it work, or a woman in an abusive situation, or just poor as hell? What if I was genuinely trying but I truly didn't feel like I could get my shit together in time to give my kid a decent life? I guess what I'm saying is this: I had very harsh feelings toward SIL when she was talking about wanting to give up DN. I understand the impulse to judge. But now that I'm going through the whole parenthood thing myself (the EASIEST part of parenting, mind you, in pretty much IDEAL circumstances)... I still think it's terrible when a parent gives up his or her child, but I am much less quick to judge them for doing so now. And I'm much more inclined to give due credit to the fact that it's terrible for EVERYONE. It's not like the kid gets a raw deal while the parent who is giving them up sits there and chuckles. I don't think anyone gives up a child lightly. I don't even think that's possible. In some cases, where it might really be the best of a group of horrible choices, I just can't bring myself to feel like the parents who have to make that call are horrible people. Couldn't have said it better myself!
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 27, 2012 9:33:31 GMT -5
I truly believe that anyone that gives their children away because of money does NOT love them as much as I love mine...a child who is loved and cherished is wealthier than a child raised with money.
That's fine if that's your opinion. I just don't think it's necessarily that simple.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Jul 27, 2012 9:36:07 GMT -5
Yes, they are. I'm doing lots better and so is DH. I was in therapy for a while and we upped my happy meds. But I responded well to the lower does for the first 4 months and I'm still on the first drug we tried. DH is doing more around the house. The kids are 4 and 2.75 now. As they get older, it's getting easier. Obviously, I'm not an infant lover... In my case, I was under a heavy load of stress and depressed. Once we got the stress eased and started dealing with the depression, things got better. And I really glad I didn't give up the kids. DH would have stopped me from doing that anyway. And I never thought about killing them or me, which my doctor got. Aww...I'm sorry it was so hard on you...and I'm glad you got the help you needed FWIW, when you were going through it, you helped me realize that I needed to something myself. I wasn't as depressed as you, but I was having anger and crying issues. They over absolutely stupid stuff and I knew it, but I couldn't help it. If no one else says anything, I just wanted you to know.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 27, 2012 9:50:49 GMT -5
"That's fine if that's your opinion. I just don't think it's necessarily that simple. "
It's the internet...things are ALWAYS that simple :-p
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 27, 2012 10:23:06 GMT -5
That isn't what I'm saying. I can imagine looking at my child and saying 'you deserve better'. Whether I could actually act on that... Pretty doubtful. I've been lucky in life so far. I hope to gawd it holds out, and I hope that my children get the same luck. I don't know how I would have turned out without that luck. And I obviously have no experience and am going from what I think I would do...but I honestly cannot imagine anythign in this world that would make me give up my children....how do you raise a child for a few years and just give that child away? How could you give up your child? Because you love your child and want what is best for him. Only a selfish asshole will keep a child when they know they aren't up to the task or the circumstances are just too bad. Unfortunately, we live in a culture where being this type of selfish asshole is praised. If I send my kids to school because I need to work and I'm too impatient to homeschool them, am I 'giving my child away' or am I doing what is in their best interests?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 27, 2012 10:25:39 GMT -5
"If I send my kids to school because I need to work and I'm too impatient to homeschool them, am I 'giving my child away' or am I doing what is in their best interests?"
Because sending a child to school is clearly the same thing as ripping that child from the only mother they have ever known
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2012 11:07:54 GMT -5
"the orphanage " Just hearing the word orphanage makes me so sad You are a wonderful person Miss Margarita to give a family to 2 kids who otherwise would probably never know what it is like to have a loving home.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 27, 2012 11:10:06 GMT -5
"You are a wonderful person Miss Margarita to give a family to 2 kids who otherwise would probably never know what it is like to have a loving home."
I think they are all blessed...the boys for havnig MM and her husband as their parents, and MM and her husband for having two such wonderful boys.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 27, 2012 11:24:04 GMT -5
How could you give up your child? Because you love your child and want what is best for him. Only a selfish asshole will keep a child when they know they aren't up to the task or the circumstances are just too bad. Unfortunately, we live in a culture where being this type of selfish asshole is praised. It's one thing to raise a kid if you're not in *YM ideal perfect* financial circumstances. If you're scraping by or you need foodstamps to keep things going, okay. Obviously kids can and do grow up great in poor and loving households. But poverty can sometimes mean more than not having money for things. What if your kid was growing up in the kind of crime/drug/gang infested neighborhood Dark described, where there was no reason to believe it would be any different for your kid as it was for the others on your street? And what if you were working as hard as you could to get out of it but it just wasn't happening and you couldn't guarantee it was going to happen anytime soon? I think keeping a kid in a situation where they're going to be more likely to turn to drugs or gangs or street violence because you can't afford better is selfish in a way. I'm not going to say under what circumstances it's "better" to give your kid away to someone who can care for it better. I can't fathom all that goes into a decision like that. But I can certainly see why people might look around at their life, look at their tiny baby and say, "I chose my life, but my kid never chose this and s/he deserves a lot better." And then decide that taking the drastic step of giving him or her away is the best one. I can see that being an act of love, maybe in some cases a more loving thing to do than keeping the kid with you. Naturally, it would be better to have not had the kid in the first place - or, having had the kid, placed it for adoption immediately. But hindsight is 20/20, you know? And if the kid is young enough to forget its birthmother and bond with a new family, then I can see how it might be the right choice for some. Certainly not the easy one - I'm sure any parent that did this would regret it for the rest of their life, but that doesn't mean it's not the right choice.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 27, 2012 12:04:35 GMT -5
Ok, a few of you keep honing in on the moms that give their children away because they are in bullet ridden ghettos...are you all forgetting about the mom's like wvu and the other poster mentioned, the moms that just decide they don't like motherhood and walk away from their children?
As a mom, I will never understand abandoning my children. Poeverty does not mean you have to live in a bullet ridden ghetto...that is a choice one makes. No one is forcing someone to live in that area...we have section 8 housing where you get a voucher and live anywhere you want. Don't all states have this?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 27, 2012 12:08:21 GMT -5
Ok, a few of you keep honing in on the moms that give their children away because they are in bullet ridden ghettos...are you all forgetting about the mom's like wvu and the other poster mentioned, the moms that just decide they don't like motherhood and walk away from their children?
Well, I don't think anyone believes there aren't BAD reasons to give your children away. Certainly there are awful, selfish reasons to abandon children. We've all seen that. I'm just not so quick to say EVERYONE does it for an awful, selfish reason.
Personally, I'm not disagreeing at all that there are awful parents who give away their kids for no reason at all and probably never loved them in the first place. And those people suck.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 27, 2012 12:13:32 GMT -5
"Personally, I'm not disagreeing at all that there are awful parents who give away their kids for no reason at all and probably never loved them in the first place. And those people suck. "
And that we can agree on...I said over and over again that "I can't understand it"...I was being sincere...as a mom who would give her life for her children, I can't imagine handing them over to someone else for any reason...I didn't make those comments to argue for 12 pages...I truly don't understand how a mom can give up a child that she has raised for a significant amount of time..and yes, unless it was a damn good reason (terminal illness, child starving in Haiti, etc) I would think that person sucks as a human being.
And to be clear, I am not talking about someone who decides to not abort their baby, but to give them life and then give them to a couple who is capable of parenting (to give a baby life knowing that you do not want that baby is the most selfless thing a person can do...the easy way out would be to abort the child). I'm talking about a mom who just walks away...it is truly something I will never understand. There are lots of things I will never understand so we will just add this to the list :-p
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 27, 2012 12:16:46 GMT -5
"except when my kids argue and drive me crazy.. LOL)" If they are like me kids, that's about hourly...and why God made wine
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 27, 2012 12:18:28 GMT -5
God I want wine. I'm a little nervous that I could become an alcoholic after this kid is born. I've never craved alcohol and I swear I think about it almost everyday this pregnancy.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 27, 2012 12:27:17 GMT -5
God I want wine. I'm a little nervous that I could become an alcoholic after this kid is born. I've never craved alcohol and I swear I think about it almost everyday this pregnancy. I had that in one of my pregnancies too. I have never felt like such a lush in my life.
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