Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 10, 2012 9:34:55 GMT -5
On the train, returning from a day visit with my grandparents.
I'm in a contemplative mood. Earlier in the day, a fleet of police and EMS roared past the house to attend to a residence three doors down. A young man dead (or gravely ill) due to a drug overdose.
This, combined with a sobering message delivered during church services and news of the continued degeneration of the financial situation in Europe, occupies my mind.
A young woman (early 20's) is sitting in the row ahead of me. Through the crack between the seats I can see well-manicured hands dancing over the surface of her iPhone. Her proficiency with the device is incredible. She's mastering the on-screen keyboard, navigating the UI, flipping between applications so quickly that the software can't keep up. It's like watching a pianist compose a masterpiece in real time.
There's something that's looking up, I think. My generation and the succeeding one collectively have no rival in our mastery of the iDevices. We can text faster, tweet harder, adapt to interfaces more easily; search, chat, download, upload better than any of our predecessors. We know more than anyone which apps can do what and how to make them do it.
It's something to be proud of.
The young woman starts talking on her phone. Her conversation is plainly heard by all. (I am paraphrasing the following, although the content is as accurate as I can make it.)
"Yeah. ... No, I don't want to go there. ... No, because it doesn't have air conditioning and it's small. ... No. ... No, stop whining and giving me ____. ... Yeah, she's coming, but there's going to be, like, seven people with her, and they're drinking and I don't want to do that. ... No. ... Because I don't know. I might be pregnant. I don't know what I'm going to do yet and I can't drink that much. It would have to be, like, 75 percent Coke. ... No. ... No, ____ it, stop whining, it doesn't have air conditioning..."
Now... you might be saying "wow", but don't. Really.
This is my generation.
It isn't "wow" to us. It's "yeah? so?". This is the norm. We go out to noisy clubs and drink. Or we go over to friends' houses to talk about nothing... and drink. Or we run wild at parties... and drink.
Don't tell me it's always been this way because it hasn't—at least not everywhere. Even back from the "free love" 70's when everything started falling apart, I've heard more stories than I can count about friends getting together to do something besides sit in front of a glowing rectangle, party, screw around and drink. Live drum festivals, theatre in the park, roller rinks, go-kart tracks, philosophy club.
People in my generation do not do these things. We party. We drink. We go to music clubs where you can't hear anything for sake of the building shaking with noise, dance "freestyle" (meaning, literally, free of style), and we drink. Through my middle school days, high school days, undergrad days, this is what "getting together" meant—with two exceptions: my church group, and (most) meetings of my chapter of an international student society.
And my grandparents' generation? Back from when half of North Americans still lived on farms, and more than half of everyone else lived in small towns?
Shoot me and throw me in a river if I haven't heard anecdotes from at least a hundred different seniors who talk about dances where people actually danced, about a fellow from school putting out a party invitation and having the whole neighbourhood show up to play a game of baseball, or a competition to skip rocks across a lake, or a sing-along. Spontaneously.
Do you know what would happen if a high schooler put out an invitation to a party today? You don't have to guess, because the incident with my grandparents' neighbour ODing brought up a tale from three years back where a teenager on their block apparently did just that. His parents were away for the weekend. He sent out a message to a few friends. They texted it to more, more, until a mob showed up for the party. Predictably, the police had to be called in. My grandparents' front lawn was full of drinking, partying teens for the first half of the night, and police cleaning up the mess for the latter half.
And the neighbourhood's reaction (which evidently was well-deserved): what was this kid [/i]thinking?[/i] You send out an invitation to a "party" and what did you expect? That a baseball game would break out? That people wouldn't drink themselves stupid? That people would conduct themselves with dignity?
I received some concerned PMs after Part I of my Friday rant (vis a vis pseudoscientist extraordinaire Kanazawa) telling me that EEers' bandy about drinking should be taken with a grain of salt. Many posters are friends of (or were raised by) alcoholics or rabid "social drinkers", and joking about drinking takes some of the edge off. And I can understand that.
What I hope that you (you being the majority of GenExers) understand is that "rabid social drinking" defines my generation's lifestyle. We spend our whole lives staring at glowing rectangles, planning social gatherings like movies and drinks, gaming and drinks, dancing and drinks, parties and drinks, "dating" and drinks. Our unequaled skills in texting and iPhoning are used to prodigiously coordinate with our friends and colleagues on getting together for drinking.
We have no dances. No group nature walks. No roller derbies or baseball games or yoga.
Book club or biking club or bird watching club? Expect to find my generation and younger underrepresented by at least a factor of five. We don't do books. We don't watch birds. We complain about non-air-conditioned clubs and try to figure out how much booze we can drink before we "figure out what to do" with our unborn children. No, not every last one of us. But what I will state with regrettable confidence, "the definite majority".
I grew up in a nice neighbourhood in western Canada. My grandparents live in an upper class neighbourhood in Mississauga, Ontario—one of the richest areas in North America. Locale doesn't make any difference.
I wanted you to know that. :-\
Have a good rest of the weekend. Go out and take a nice long walk in the park, and meditate on some of the beautiful things God has given to us. I plan on doing just that today. It's a shame that it took a young man's overdose to inspire me to do it.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 10, 2012 9:41:44 GMT -5
Part of the problem is we have made alcohol so taboo to teens that they have absolutely no idea how to drink socially.
And, all those stories you hear about the good old days? Those days weren't that good, IMO. Bad news didn't get reported 24/7 on cable TV and Internet.
For some perspective on the 1960s, I suggest you read PJ O'Rourke. Some hippies were just going though the motions for the girls and the drugs. Start with "Age and Gulie Beat Youth, Innocence and a Bad HAir Cut."
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 9:50:51 GMT -5
Every generation thinks the next generation is full of dolts. But, there are some shining stars in there that maybe you haven't come across yet. Keep the faith!
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 10, 2012 9:54:04 GMT -5
"A young woman (early 20's) is sitting in the row ahead of me. Through the crack between the seats I can see well-manicured hands dancing over the surface of her iPhone. Her proficiency with the device is incredible. She's mastering the on-screen keyboard, navigating the UI, flipping between applications so quickly that the software can't keep up. It's like watching a pianist compose a masterpiece in real time." Pfffffffft. I'm 52 and I've always been faster than the SW. That's why I get frustrated and have a tendency to get frustrated with devices. I had a friend stop by to see what was wrong with a fan of mine I never really used and it might be I just didn't have it twisted the right way and did not have the patience to press the on button long enough to get the thing to start. In fact after he left and I failed to turn it on my first attempt I reminded myself it did work and next attempt just kept the button pressed until it turned on. The problems you are talking about though are not purely generational. In London what you are talking about is perceived to be a cultural lifestyle which is part of the reason some are converting to Islam. They want more meaning in their lives and apparently do not know how to find it without converting to a different religion. I hope you haven't lost all faith. Not everyone is like that and some do out grow it. I just recently reached out to a mid twentysomething that I worked with at Princeton's Firestone library. While he does do the big drinking club thing he also listens to NPR and went to a Museum one lunch. Don't lose hope. Things change. Those who don't overdose might grow up to be conservative or like Dark.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jun 10, 2012 10:29:07 GMT -5
I agree with Swamp that we're hearing a lot more about these cases now than in the past due to the media, internet, etc. And technology and social networking seems to be such a big part of their lives that they're not learning social skillsl. I also think many of the youth nowadays seem to be buckling under peer pressure when it comes to drinking, drugs and sex.
Also back a couple of generations ago, not all famlies had both parents holding full-time jobs - there was usuallly one parent (most often the mom) who was a full time SAH parent. Now kids are often left pretty much on their own for the better part of the day. Then evenings aren't being spent doing things as a family unit so much anymore. (Before you get on my case, I'm not saying ALL parents are like this, but it seems to be a trend). Many parents are so caught up in their own lives, that they're not seeing what's going on right in their own family.
Alcohol is far more accessible today than it was 20 or so years ago too. Not that many years ago, you had to show identification no matter what your age, and the clerk would retrieve your order from a restricted area of the store - much like how we get prescriptions filled at the pharmacy.
Now kids will approach anyone and ask them to go in the store and pick something up for them. As for the drugs, again the internet and media have made the process of manufacturing of illegal substances more accessible. Then there's prescription drugs. Many doctors and medical professionals are handing out prescriptions like flyers - just for the asking.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jun 10, 2012 10:51:41 GMT -5
I am old enough to remember the 50's, 60's 70's 80's 90's and now the 20's. All generations have had the worst of times and the best of times. Change is inevitable and that is a fact. Oh and I left out the 40's cause I was too young to recall anything but 6 yrs of a reasonably good childhood and not aware of world or neighborhood events.
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Jun 10, 2012 11:00:38 GMT -5
I am not sure how much of this is a generational shift or a societal shift in values. Now days many people, not all, expect to be entertained 24 hours a day. I have a co-worker, age 50, who is always bored and everything is always boring. His DD is graduating from college this year and he was glad that she chose to not participate in the graduation ceremony because it would be boring. Apparently the DD has learned her lessons well from Dad because he said she wasn't participating because it would be boring.
At work I see many people who never read a paper, or news on the internet, because it doesn't affect them. They have no clue what is going on in our community, not to mention world wide. Their lives revolve around going to work and then going home and as Virgil stated "sit in front of the glowing rectangle".
I do admit in this past year I am less involved in community activities then I have been in the past as I am transitioning to empty nest mode. I have yet to find something that replaces being a parent volunteer with the Marching Band, and sewing/altering costumes for the dance studio. My life has been wrapped up in my DD's activities and now I need to find my own activities.
While I have always tried to be active and a part of my community one of DD's teachers summed it up quite well. "You can not say you are bored until you have done everything there is to do in the world."
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 10, 2012 11:03:09 GMT -5
Part of the problem is we have made alcohol so taboo to teens that they have absolutely no idea how to drink socially. And, all those stories you hear about the good old days? Those days weren't that good, IMO. Bad news didn't get reported 24/7 on cable TV and Internet. For some perspective on the 1960s, I suggest you read PJ O'Rourke. Some hippies were just going though the motions for the girls and the drugs. Start with "Age and Gulie Beat Youth, Innocence and a Bad HAir Cut." That ans I don't know what this half of all people lived on farms stuff. Unless you mean farmettes in Long Island. Maybe a fifth live in a true rural area and it was worse years ago when it was so hard to get there and back. My Parents grew up in the early 1900's. They had trolleys, electricity, central heat and an ice box. They also had their share of drunks, criminals and ne'er do wells.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jun 10, 2012 11:21:26 GMT -5
Don't forget about the Roaring 20's too. That decade was rampant with alcohol and drugs - liquor flowed about as freely as water from a tap - and people were making "bathtub gin". Coke (not the beverage) was also freely accessible and used. I think every generation goes through moral lapses - but today's pregnancy epidemic among youth seems to be more prevalent and accepted than in the past. Back in the day, if someone got pregnant before marriage, it often brought shame to the family and was usually kept secret from the outside world - or was quickly 'fixed' with a shotgun wedding.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 10, 2012 11:25:32 GMT -5
I, too, am often troubled by the seeming elevation of the drunken state to something everyone should strive for, Virgil. Not being a drinker, and never having been a drinker, it strikes me as the wrong message, somehow. Usually, I put it off to people "just talking" and partially kidding. I don't believe those who chatter about their drunkeness are actually all that wasted. At least, I sure hope they're not! I've treated too many drunks in hospital to want to ever see another one. It's pretty ugly.
I think a lot of folks are staying home, watching TV or on the computer because they really can't afford to do much else. Some have kids they need to be home with. Others are caring for aging parents while working and trying to keep the home together. The economy is on its nose and people are downright scared about their futures. I really believe all this plays into a lot of what we see and hear these days. Growing up in the 50s, we didn't have such instant availability of news from around the world. We knew what was going on in the neighborhood, but we didn't know as much as we do these days about the overall condition of our society and that of other countries. Knowing all this probably adds to the general feeling of angst.
All I can do is try to keep myself straight and set the best example I can for my offspring and their offspring. I can't change the world. I can only live my life.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 10, 2012 11:30:11 GMT -5
I, like mmhmm, am not much of a drinker, although I do enjoy an occasional sip or two. What I find is that drinking is associated with having fun. It seems some of my friends can't have fun unless they are drinking. I golf but I don't drink when I golf. They see it as yet another opportunity to have a six-pack. I love to go out on the river and just relax. They see it as an opportunity for another six-pack. It seems people can't enjoy themselves unless they are tipsy. I suppose that's why I don't leave the house much!
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 10, 2012 11:34:44 GMT -5
Part of the problem is we have made alcohol so taboo to teens that they have absolutely no idea how to drink socially. And, all those stories you hear about the good old days? Those days weren't that good, IMO. Bad news didn't get reported 24/7 on cable TV and Internet. For some perspective on the 1960s, I suggest you read PJ O'Rourke. Some hippies were just going though the motions for the girls and the drugs. Start with "Age and Gulie Beat Youth, Innocence and a Bad HAir Cut." That ans I don't know what this half of all people lived on farms stuff. Unless you mean farmettes in Long Island. Maybe a fifth live in a true rural area and it was worse years ago when it was so hard to get there and back. My Parents grew up in the early 1900's. They had trolleys, electricity, central heat and an ice box. They also had their share of drunks, criminals and ne'er do wells. My figure was from the turn of the 20th century. This article says it perfectly in the introductory paragraphs. To wit: "Those who labor in the earth are the chosen people of God, if ever he had a chosen people, whose breasts he has made his peculiar deposit for substantial and genuine virtue." —Thomas Jefferson, "Notes on the State of Virginia"
In 1801, when Jefferson became president, 95 percent of Americans essentially made their full-time living from agriculture. By the turn of the 20th century, it was 45 percent, and by the turn of the 21st less than 2 percent. In western Canada where my grandparents grew up, this was still the status quo during the dirty 30's. There have always been metropolitan areas like New York, Los Angeles, etc., but in 100 years we have seen a decline from a near-majority of North Americans living and working on farms to virtually nobody. I'm not saying that our dismal social state is tied to the decline in agriculture, just that tales from life 100 years ago seem more like myth than reality to people from my generation. As for PJ O'Rourke's perspectives on the 60's, I'm not denying that many were involved in sex, drugs, and booze a generation ago (although anything a celebrity has to say on the matter means little to me; Hollywood has always been a cesspit). But was it everyone? The people I've talked to who grew up during the 60's and 70's talk about it as though there were "good parties" with good crowds—clean, engaging, fun activities; very little drinking if any at all—and then parties with "bad crowds" where you didn't let your drink down lest somebody put something in it. The operative concept that there existed "good parties" (as I've defined them). No such thing ever existed for me when looking at 25-and-under outside of (as I've said) church, graduate students, and an international student society. The "lifestyle" was certainly around in the 60's and 70's, but my understanding is that it didn't constitute 98% of your options. Today, and when I grew up, it did.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jun 10, 2012 11:36:34 GMT -5
Meh, the "good old days" weren't that great. I remember watching the Vietnam war on the news when I was a kid. I was too young for Woodstock, but was aware of who was messing around with drugs in high school & college. One of the advantages of growing up in my era, was that we didn't have home computers. We'd hang out with the neighborhood kids when we were bored, and figure out how to entertain ourselves, whether it was riding bikes, or organizing a neighborhood baseball game (yes, I was a tomboy). (I also realize I'm starting to sound like my Father.) Our schools had dances, even in junior high. We learned a few dance moves so we didn't look awkward on the dance floor. When we were 18 (legal drinking age), we preferred the bars that had live bands, so we could dance AND drink. Drinking was part of the fun, but it wasn't everything. The music was loud, but if we shouted, we could catch up on our friend's lives. The biggest benefit of technology for my generation is the ease of keeping up with friends lives, and, if you've got a major event to organize (parent's wedding anniversary party, for example), it saves you a lot of time in planning & contacting people. Sadly, we've still found ways to overschedule ourselves, and it's almost like there's a contest between friends on who has the craziest schedule. Slow down people, and enjoy your life! My Mom's health is getting worse, which is a constant reminder to me to "smell the roses", and just try to enjoy the good in each day.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jun 10, 2012 11:37:41 GMT -5
I seldom drink. Just the way I am.
** edited because i first thought Virgil was saying the young lady on the phone was in the row in front of him in church. but after re-reading, i think it's the train he's talking about.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 10, 2012 12:59:48 GMT -5
Um, PJ O'Rourke isnt a celebrity. Hes a political commentator.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 13:03:02 GMT -5
I am not a big drinker either. I do enjoy a beer or two on a hot day in the summer or a drink when going out with friends for dinner but alcohol makes me tired so I don't indulge often. The natural world does inspire me. Bird watching, gardening, watching the river run backwards on windy days , swimming, taking the canoe out. I love to read but admit it makes me feel lazy sometimes, like I should be up moving around instead. I'm also tired of hearing cell phone conversations everywhere I go. I have not heard any in church yet though and hope that continues.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 10, 2012 13:08:00 GMT -5
I was a big drinker until I was about 27. I had fun.
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Jun 10, 2012 14:11:19 GMT -5
Every generation thinks the generations before theirs was the greatest or blames the generation before theirs. It's perception and I think right now is fabulous.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 10, 2012 14:17:32 GMT -5
In 1801, when Jefferson became president, 95 percent of Americans essentially made their full-time living from agriculture. By the turn of the 20th century, it was 45 percent, and by the turn of the 21st less than 2 percent.I knew this but I never took it as all, or even most, of those people were living in a rural area or farm. I am not talking about a couple hundred years ago just the twentieth centry. I have parents and grandparents whose work growing up could easily have been called "making a living from agiculture". They by no means lived on a farm. Unless someone here consideres Boston farm country. They worked in factories that processed the food that came in from the farms. The areas where the food or cattle was actually produced was way to sparcely populated to have the number of employees to do the procesing. So they would get it to the nearest city by train or whatever means necessary and the factories back East, would process it. It also helped that since most of the people lived in or close to a city distrubution was much easier. I am not saying people in the middle of our country and yours didn't have lots of farms, or that they didn't process their own food. I just don't think that comes anywhere near the amount of peole in the big cities back east doing the processing of the fruits of their labors. Personally I am happy that I can have a garden for my own pleasure and not out of need. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 18:20:24 GMT -5
um, I'm 29, married with a kid (within wedlock) and seldom drink. So.... yeah.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 10, 2012 18:58:23 GMT -5
I don't know how they determine the stats, beach. They come from the USDA, hence it's questionable whether they'd include "food manufacturing" as part of agriculture. Perhaps a more pertinent statistic is the degree of urbanization. I was able to find this data, which suggests that about 44% of the US population was "rural" in the 30's and 40's. The chart only goes up to 1990, but extrapolating the number would have us at about 21-22% rural today. And of course the rural life of today is vastly different from the urban life of the 1920's, 30's and 40's. It's not a big sticking point. I intended it as an example of something where people say "things really haven't changed that much" when things have in fact changed that much. Some people are blind to incrementalism. They never bother to sit back and make a start-to-finish assessment of how much things really have changed. I need only talk to an elderly relative. My great aunt, for example, was given a medal for surviving the Spanish Flu as an infant. It wasn't unusual to lose one or two children before adulthood. A child dies today and some parents go out of their minds. Just... different. Give it two years. One of the dark milestones that got me thinking last week was that China and Japan started (as of two weeks ago) trading through direct currency exchanges rather than US dollars. The MSM didn't mention it (obviously). They are, and always have been, in the hopium business. And who can blame China? A billion people slaving away in sweatshops for decades with a lifestyle not even comparable to ours, storing up IOUs that will never be repaid.
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Jun 10, 2012 19:47:25 GMT -5
OHHHH Virgil has his piss poor cranky suit on today. ;D
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 10, 2012 19:54:22 GMT -5
Count me in as one of those softie modern idiots who would go out of her mind if one of their kids were to die.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 10, 2012 20:10:03 GMT -5
Count me in as one of those softie modern idiots who would go out of her mind if one of their kids were to die. I admit that I don't personally know anyone who has. I've just heard tell from various sources of people who grieve for months going on years, suffering from so-called "chronic grief" and other psychoses that render them unable to function. Maybe it's an urban myth, or an extreme rarity, but I do know that it wasn't an option for the common person until the 20th century.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 10, 2012 20:14:25 GMT -5
Count me in as one of those softie modern idiots who would go out of her mind if one of their kids were to die. I admit that I don't personally know anyone who has. I've just heard tell from various sources of people who grieve for months going on years, suffering from so-called "chronic grief" and other psychoses that render them unable to function. Maybe it's an urban myth, or an extreme rarity, but I do know that it wasn't an option for the common person until the 20th century. It was an option, you just didn't hear about it. There is a state psychiatric center in upstate NY. It used to have over 3,000 inpatients in there, many of whom suffered vpfrom "melancholy". You didn't suffer at home, you got hid away.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 10, 2012 20:25:43 GMT -5
As in a clinic for wealthy clients living in the wealthiest, most urbanized state in the US? I can believe that.
As for the millions upon millions who lost children to epidemics, industrial accidents, even starvation up to and during the 30's?
Say what you will, seniors who lived through the dirty 30's have different attitudes towards death than my generation and even your generation. They possess a stoicism that we lack. Maybe it's something that comes with age, but to me it's like black and white.
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swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,614
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Post by swamp on Jun 10, 2012 20:29:34 GMT -5
Um no. It's an inpatient psychiatric center for the most psychologically distUrbed people. You have to be really bad to be hospitalized. And upstate NY is far from urbanized or wealthy.
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Deleted
Joined: Sept 28, 2024 17:05:18 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 20:30:17 GMT -5
I doubt I would have survived past puberty. I need my leisure time.
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swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,614
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Post by swamp on Jun 10, 2012 20:31:09 GMT -5
And say what you will about death but I don't think I could deal if one of my kids died. You can think I'm a softie moron who is the death of society as we know it, and I think you're being a cranky pants fuddy duddy
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Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 10, 2012 20:43:46 GMT -5
And say what you will about death but I don't think I could deal if one of my kids died. You can think I'm a softie moron who is the death of society as we know it... Not at all. My mother said the same thing. I see the attitude as being an effect rather than a cause. A sign that times have changed. I think it's unfortunate in the sense that my mother grieving for me to the point where it became "chronic" is the last thing I'd want her to do. And I'd imagine the same is true with your children. All I've observed is that there are generational differences in how people (Canadians, at least) perceive death. Whether coping can be "learned" is a matter for the psychologists. And if Dr. Kanazawa is any indication, they're flailing around in the dark just like the rest of us. If a parent convinces himself that he can't cope when in fact he can, the only people he's hurting are himself and those who depend on him.
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