Raising kids with religion: Yes or no?

[Deleted]

If they are my children, I will raise my children and teach my children in whatever manner i believe to be fit and in their best interest.

[moxie]

"I think it is better to focus on raising children with morals as opposed to focusing just on religion."

I couldn't agree more. You can be Christian-like in the way you treat people in your everyday life w/o necessarily going to church or practicing a particular religion. IMO It's all about being kind to one another and helping each other out.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I get that. I guess, even though I was raised going to church, I was never raised with the use of fear when it came to religion. Now, fear of my mom's backhand if we talked back is a whole different story.

Same here - I was raised going to church, and fear was not in the teachings where we attended (nor was fear ever used as a teaching method with my parents). We were taught to love and respect, and to show compassion for our fellow-man, and treat each other as we would be treated. There was never the "Fear of God" instilled in us. We were taught by our parents to be morally upright in all aspects of our lives, and to live a life we would be proud of. That includes morals.

It's been quite a while since I've attended a 'formal' church service, but that doesn't mean my views or the way I've lived have changed in any way since I was younger.

[Firebird]

You are treating your beliefs as truth and if you claim religion can not be proven, you are equally bound by the fact that it can't be disproven. 2 + 2 = 4. That is what I teach GW. If she decides she is uncomfortable believing that when she is older it won't mean it isn't true. It isn't my job to make her comfortable saying 2 + 2 = 5.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this, since I have no set religious beliefs. All I'm saying is that I personally consider it indoctrination/brainwashing to raise children as if a single religious belief was the one and only truth, allowing for no other options or even telling them that other people believe differently.

I happen to consider that approach wrong, but whether you do or not - let's call it what it is. Kids can't think for themselves yet, so they're going to accept whatever you tell them as truth unless you make it very clear that other people believe differently and it's not the ONLY truth.

If you think it's moral/right to indoctrinate (and I don't think that's too strong of a word if you do it the way I just described) your kids into your faith, more power to you. I know a lot of people do - and I simply disagree.

[Firebird]

I couldn't agree more. You can be Christian-like in the way you treat people in your everyday life w/o necessarily going to church or practicing a particular religion. IMO It's all about being kind to one another and helping each other out.

And yes - this. Very much this. The Christians that have made the deepest impression on me and whose faith I actually respect are the ones who have never preached to me. Discussed/explained their faith when asked, yes. Preached, no. They live by example and that's what really makes me admire them.

[Firebird]

I was raised going to church, and fear was not in the teachings where we attended (nor was fear ever used as a teaching method with my parents). We were taught to love and respect, and to show compassion for our fellow-man, and treat each other as we would be treated. There was never the "Fear of God" instilled in us.

That's nice. I mean that - it's really nice, and I'm glad it was that way for you. But a lot of us WERE raised with fear as a major motivator and I think it's wrong to do that to a child. Sure, I grew up with the loving view of Jesus too but underneath that was a very clear and distinct layer of "oh btw if you DON'T believe in this nice man Jesus, he's going to send you to hell."

Christians like to claim that everyone has a choice whether or not to believe in Christ. But really, if the choice is between believing in a story that is admittedly difficult to swallow, or spending eternity in hellfire - you can't tell me that's much of a choice.

[thyme4change]

You are treating your beliefs as truth

Honestly, I don't think you can not 'not teach' your kids things. People who say they are staying silent on religious teachings in their home are fooling themselves. What you are not teaching them is sending a message. I know I'm part of that. I don't speak for nor against religion / faith / god. But, I know my kids are picking up on the fact that we don't go to church, we don't say prayers and we don't turn to god for help.

I think your lifestyle teaches your kids far more than your words ever do. Just like telling your kids to work hard in school and get a job as a adult carries a lot of weight in my family. However, the message would likely be lost if it was a welfare family where no one went to work.

When I say I try to stay silent, I know the truth is that I really want to teach them to be respectful to other religions and see it as a personal matter. Frankly, I really hope my children don't become 'born again' christians. I left the church because those people irritated me and made me feel inferior. I thought their beliefs were non-sensical. So, in my perfect world, I wouldn't have to hear about it every time I see my children. But, I'm not going to blow up my extended family to get there.

[Firebird]

Honestly, I don't think you can not 'not teach' your kids things.

I didn't say you can - or should. That would be silly, of course you have to teach your children things - and if religion is a big part of your life, of course your faith will end up being part of those teachings.

I don't object to any of that. I object to the part where people deliberately limit kids' knowledge of other religions and actively discourage talk about them because they are supposed to believe the one that is practiced in their home.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2012 12:06:35 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Honestly, I don't think you can not 'not teach' your kids things.

I didn't say you can - or should. That would be silly, of course you have to teach your children things - and if religion is a big part of your life, of course your faith will end up being part of those teachings.

I don't object to any of that. I object to the part where people deliberately limit kids' knowledge of other religions and actively discourage talk about them because they are supposed to believe the one that is practiced in their home.

I might add, I encourage my children to ask questions and to learn at every oportunity. Some religions discourage questions and that bothers me a great deal. A person should always be able to ask questions until such time as they feel comfortable (or not) with the answers.

[Deleted]

Many times children walk away from whatever faith was instilled in them as children while growing up.. Some never do. I guess we could say those who away from their faiths' seasons of discovery for them, maybe just a time of getting in touch with themselves to find what else may be out there to believe in..

I personally taught my children's faith from the bible.. Both my children strayed away from the faith for a season, yet returned on their faith.

To comment about the word "fear".. Fear in reference to God does not mean to the Christian, a fearful nail biting cower down and hide ourselves type response from God should we fail/fall in some manner.. In other words, should we sin against another, God has restoration in place for the believer so that their joy may be full again.

Fearing God is our respectfully acknowledging him as Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that fills the universe. We who chose to believe so, also choose to behold God in reverent worship and see him sovereign in all matters in the earth..

[moxie]

"But, i think most people worship at the church of their kids' sports leagues. That seems to be where everyone is."

shooby: I won't lie...that is where we were for many years...travel sports/cheer competitions all day Saturday interrupting 4:30pm mass that we liked to attend. Honestly, and this is going to sound bad, but we were just NOT Sunday morning church people. So instead, we tried to teach our children by example...be kind, help others, tell the truth and be a good person.

[moxie]

I know teens whose parents pushed religion on them growing up and BOY!! when they went to college and were away from their parents, ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE!! Alcohol, dope, sex...if their parents only knew!! REBELLION!!

[Deleted]

Were you at college with me....

[Deleted]

I'm not really sure what you mean by this, since I have no set religious beliefs. All I'm saying is that I personally consider it indoctrination/brainwashing to raise children as if a single religious belief was the one and only truth, allowing for no other options or even telling them that other people believe differently.

You not only have very definite religous beliefs, you are very bigotted about them. I openly own my religous beliefs and have never written something so belittling of other's beliefs.

[Deleted]

Christians like to claim that everyone has a choice whether or not to believe in Christ. But really, if the choice is between believing in a story that is admittedly difficult to swallow, or spending eternity in hellfire - you can't tell me that's much of a choice.

Heaven is a place where Christ is King. How can you go somewhere that you don't believe exists?

[Firebird]

You not only have very definite religous beliefs, you are very bigotted about them. I openly own my religous beliefs and have never written something so belittling of other's beliefs.

What did I write that was belittling? I actually go out of my way NOT to belittle the beliefs of others, so I'm curious what makes you say this. Do you think that I'm a bigot simply because I don't believe in indoctrinating children?

I have a great deal of respect for people of faith. Most of my friends are religious. We've had many, many discussions in multiple forums about their beliefs, and this is literally the first time I've ever been accused of belittling anyone or being a bigot. You'd think someone would have brought it to my attention before now.

[Firebird]

Heaven is a place where Christ is King. How can you go somewhere that you don't believe exists?

I don't believe in hell either, but according to Christians that won't stop God from sending me there for rejecting him.

[Firebird]

I think it can be very damaging, and I think growing up feeling forced to believe in a certain religion was incredibly damaging to me personally, but I also try not to judge. Parents do what they feel is right, and that's all that can realistically be expected of them.

If you do think I'm a bigot because of my feelings about indoctrination, perhaps you missed this post of mine (#15).

Just because I personally feel something is wrong and judge the choice itself doesn't mean I automatically judge the person making it. In most cases, I genuinely believe that parents are doing the best they can and making the choices for their kids that they truly think are right. That's all any parent can ever do.

[whoisjohngalt]

I'm not really sure what you mean by this, since I have no set religious beliefs. All I'm saying is that I personally consider it indoctrination/brainwashing to raise children as if a single religious belief was the one and only truth, allowing for no other options or even telling them that other people believe differently.

For a religious person HIS religion IS the only truth.

Lena

[Deleted]

What did I write that was belittling? I actually go out of my way NOT to belittle the beliefs of others, so I'm curious what makes you say this. Do you think that I'm a bigot simply because I don't believe in indoctrinating children?

Classifying teaching children religion as indoctrinating them is very belittling. Talking about spiritual beliefs as if they should be presented on a menu to choose from is also belittling. The truth is not multiple choice with every option being equally valid. To suggest it be taught to children that way is ridiculous.

If you don't believe in hell why would you care if someone says you are going there?

[Firebird]

Classifying teaching children religion as indoctrinating them is very belittling.

Again, please read my posts before you accuse me of saying something I didn't actually say.

I have repeatedly maintained that teaching children religion is NOT indoctrinating them (see post #73 as an example). But teaching them your religion in such a way that it cuts off all access to other religions and allows no room for the possibility of other truths - yes, I consider that indoctrination.

Look at it this way. If I were to teach my child that Satan likes us to build fires in the living room and dance around them while chanting and if we didn't then our house would be burnt to a crisp, you'd consider that brainwashing right? Because a little kid is too young to know better.

Well, I would consider that brainwashing too.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2012 19:25:34 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I think it can be very damaging, and I think growing up feeling forced to believe in a certain religion was incredibly damaging to me personally, but I also try not to judge. Parents do what they feel is right, and that's all that can realistically be expected of them.

If you do think I'm a bigot because of my feelings about indoctrination, perhaps you missed this post of mine (#15).

Just because I personally feel something is wrong and judge the choice itself doesn't mean I automatically judge the person making it. In most cases, I genuinely believe that parents are doing the best they can and making the choices for their kids that they truly think are right. That's all any parent can ever do.

You are intolerant of ideas other than your own, in this case the belief in religion. You are saying it calmly but that doesn't make it any less intolerant. You actually started a thread asking about it and then proceed to declare it wrong in almost every post you write.

[Deleted]

In this day and age it is impossible to sheild children from other beliefs. Who are you claiming does this? Or is capable of it?

[Firebird]

You are intolerant of ideas other than your own, in this case the belief in religion. You are saying it calmly but that doesn't make it any less intolerant. You actually started a thread asking about it and then proceed to declare it wrong in almost every post you write.

I actually just reread through all of my posts on this thread looking for a HINT of this, and I couldn't find it. What am I missing? Did you even see the part where I very politely and respectfully asked WisconsinBeth to clarify the way she was teaching religion to her children, she answered and said that she hoped her answer helped me, and I answered that I was merely interested in her take?

Unless you know me, you could never tell just from the OP that I'm not religious. My question and the way I phrased it offered no insight into my personal religious beliefs at all. For all you know, I'm Mormon or Pagan or Muslim. I was merely interested in getting other people's takes on the subject.

I am absolutely not intolerant of beliefs other than my own, and I do NOT object to parents teaching their religion to their own children. That would be silly; of course you're going to teach the religion that you practice, because it's important to you. And I do think there are ways to do that without indoctrinating.

I don't know how much clearer I can make it.

[Firebird]

If you don't believe in hell why would you care if someone says you are going there?

As an adult, I don't care one bit. As a small child, when adults I trusted said I could potentially go to hell and I had no way of knowing that hell was simply a theory (not a fact), of COURSE it frightened me! How could it not? As a small child, I didn't know any better. The adults in my life who loved me and wanted the best for me were the ones who were saying that Jesus planned to send people who didn't believe in Christianity to hell. As a kid, I interpreted that as "wow, I better believe I'm a Christian or Jesus will send me to hell" which is not an unreasonable interpretation.

I call that indoctrination because at five, six, eight, I wasn't yet old enough to have developed the critical thinking necessary to realize that there were other beliefs out there - that not everyone in the world believed in Christianity, or that non-Christians would go to hell. I literally started working that out when I was in my late teens. So up until then, yeah, I was definitely submerged in an environment that presented ONE truth as THE truth, and it damaged me.

I'm not saying it damages all children to be raised like this. But do I think it's right? No.

[Firebird]

A few more of my quotes from this thread (with select parts underlined), because I get the sense that you haven't been reading any of them:

Being raised in a strictly atheist home can be just as limiting and restrictive as being raised in a religious home. My hope is that my kids will feel free to believe or not believe whatever they want.

I think it can be very damaging, and I think growing up feeling forced to believe in a certain religion was incredibly damaging to me personally, but I also try not to judge. Parents do what they feel is right, and that's all that can realistically be expected of them.

WB, if you feel like answering (and I hope it's clear that my questions do come from a place of curiosity, I have no intention of flaming or judging anyone), when you answer these questions do you make it clear to her that this is what you believe and that other people believe other things? Or will you, once she's older?

I think the thing that makes this question so hard for religious people (at least, this is what would make it hard for me) is how do you teach what you believe to be truth to your child while still allowing them room to be their own people and believe only if they actually believe?

Most religious people I know truly believe their religion is objective truth. So teaching their kids to believe it is no different from teaching their kids to believe in gravity. It's just fact, and it would be irresponsible not to impart it.

Yet religion is NOT objective truth, and teaching it as though it is does children a big disservice IMO.

I don't envy anyone this dilemma.

I would like to point out that being raised in a particular religion doesn't necessarily make you "brainwashed."

I agree that there are ways to do it without brainwashing. However, in many cases the religion is taught as though it were objective truth, like gravity, and that can sometimes lead to brainwashing. It's very hard to "unlearn" things you learned as a child, even if you don't believe them anymore.

shooby- again, I only consider it brainwashing if the beliefs are presented as uncontested truth/fact. I think if parents present their beliefs AS their beliefs, while making sure the kids know there are plenty of other valid faiths out there, then it's not brainwashing.

And so forth. Now please show me where in those quotes I was doing anything other than stating MY OWN opinion on this subject much like other people shared theirs. Show me the part where I was intolerant of other religions or said people shouldn't share their faith with their children.

[whoisjohngalt]

Well, I guess I am not that evolved as a parent, bc yes, I want my kids to have the same values and morals and believes as I do and that's exactly what I will be teaching them and it it's called brainwashing, so be it.

Lena

[Deleted]

Yet religion is NOT objective truth, and teaching it as though it is does children a big disservice IMO.

That is where you cross the line.

while making sure the kids know there are plenty of other valid faiths out there,

That is like saying "make sure kids know that 2+2=5 is an equally valid belief.

You are saying it as nicely as you can, but you have strong subjective beliefs you are trying to pass off as objective.

[Firebird]

Later- this might shock you, but I'd probably be pleased if my kids ended up religious. I don't have a major leaning either way, but if they wind up religious without me and DH pushing them into it, there's an excellent chance that it's something they've chosen for themselves and feel very strongly about, which would be great!

Anything that inspires passion and conviction in my children is something I will do my best to support (unless it's actively hurting them or someone else).

I plan to let my children tell ME who they are, not the other way around.

[Firebird]

May 15, 2012 20:10:41 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Yet religion is NOT objective truth, and teaching it as though it is does children a big disservice IMO.

That is where you cross the line.

By stating my opinion (or maybe you missed the acronym IMO in that quote, which stands for in... my... OPINION)? Guess we have to agree to disagree.

As for the other- you stating that other beliefs are NOT equal to your own because YOU do not believe them is far, far more intolerant than anything I've said.