Big wedding when you're already married

[Deleted]

Archie doesn't have life insurance. He must not love his wife, because she is unprotected - big time!

And I think he is incredibly selfish.

[Firebird]

A little opposite, but the same way I wouldn't tell most people if I had an abortion. I would always wonder if deep inside they saw me as a horrible baby-killer. I wouldn't even want to wonder if someone felt that way about me, so I wouldn't share that little fact about myself.

This makes sense. And to tell you the truth, I'm not some kind of honesty purist. I agree that there are times when it's best not to be upfront. But again, you have to be willing to live with the consequences of being found out should it ever happen. In the case of the abortion, no one could possibly find out unless you told someone who couldn't keep it secret or there was an actionable violation of your privacy rights, so I'd say you were pretty safe keeping that one under wraps. As far as whether you could march in a pro-life rally after having had one... that's a personal thing too.

Because she doesn't know I will feel about it, she opts not to tell me. I never find out, or I find out when she is 32 and it slips out. Kind of a "What you don't know won't hurt you." However, if my daughter choses to run away and have the baby in secret and never tell me - because she knows I'm against teenaged moms, that would be terrible.

Makes sense too. Thanks for clarifying.

However, I heard of a couple who were strict baptists and they wanted to have sex so bad that they got married in secret, had sex, but didn't tell anyone and continued to live separately, and act like boyfriend/girlfriend - except when they would drive out to a dark wooded area to have sex. They had a "wedding" later. I just roll my eyes at that one.

Would you not say that qualifies as a case where people thought they were witnessing the real wedding (the real ending of their chaste single lives and the start of their life together as one unit) and were deceived? Or is this no different from any other couple deciding to get married in secret and have a big wedding later in your mind?

I would assume that these people go around calling themselves married not for their own benefit, but because they don't want to deal with the bullshit that comes with not following the normal societal expectations.

And again, people who do this for that reason are trying to have it both ways. They want to live how they want to live, but without judgment. But if you're so sure that what you're doing is right and okay, who cares if other people judge you or not?!

You can live that way if you want, but I'd consider it very deceitful especially if people think you actually are married and are for some reason invested in thinking that (such as your parents not wanting to be looked down on at church because their child lives in sin).

[NastyWoman]

Apr 23, 2012 11:41:45 GMT -5 swamp said:

I think even in that situation though, if I were a parent who was paying for the "re do" I'd be upset that I'm not good enough to know you got married but I'm good enough to pay for your re-do.

crap, I'm agreeing with Hoops.......

This is getting to be a habit after the Doxie threads. Snap out of it missy.

By the way I too agree with Hoops on this one

[Firebird]

Poor Hoops, everyone has such a big hang-up about agreeing with him! Just because you agree with him on certain things doesn't mean you have to endorse his entire worldview. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in awhile

[Deleted]

"And again, people who do this for that reason are trying to have it both ways. They want to live how they want to live, but without judgment. But if you're so sure that what you're doing is right and okay, who cares if other people judge you or not?!"

Sometimes its just the semantics of name recognition... If a waitress in a restaurant doesn't understand the term gluten and gluten free... i often will say i'm 'allergic' to wheat, etc.... is gluten intolerance or even celiacs an 'allergy' ... no... but waitresses understand allergy... its simpler than having to explain, in particular my intestinal reaction to gluten... I'm allergic to bread is much quicker to the point...

Same with significant other, etc. Is this your husband... yes, this is Tom... is easier than well, he's my significant other, we live together but keep separate bank accounts and he does have power of attorney (whatever...) ... or something similar.... it easier to give the quick, contextual stand in phrase...

Firebird... did i misunderstand you in the last page when you said you WOULD considery lying to your parents about being married if it helped them to view their grandchild as thier 'real' grandchild ?

[quotequeen]

I would be extremely offended. And honestly, I don't really get the private/small ceremony and big reception later either. The reception is supposed to be a thank you to your guests for attending your wedding.

[Firebird]

Firebird... did i misunderstand you in the last page when you said you WOULD considery lying to your parents about being married if it helped them to view their grandchild as thier 'real' grandchild ?

Hell no! I'd be sad, but I would never pretend to marry Schmoopy* just to make them feel better about having a grandchild. If they had any sense, they'd hide their feelings from me - because if they didn't, I'm not sure just how much they'd get to see the little Firechick.

*This thread only, I promise, then he goes back to being DH. That word is just making me smile right now.

[raeoflyte]

I know you're all going to say my situation is different because in the eyes of the state I'm in a same sex marriage, but the legal paperwork is not a marriage or a wedding. We've navigated a crappy system as best we can to get the best benefits for ourselves over the years, and that has included not getting the piece of paper even when we 'could' and eventually deciding to get the piece of paper.

My marriage is different. If the state has any reason to get involved in my marriage (like if I kick the bucket and dh tries to claim spousal SS benefits) they will annul our marriage in a heart beat. Are we still really married, and if we are what actually sealed the deal--the spiritual sentiment, the ceremony for family, or the piece of paper? Why would that definition change if we were straight?

Some straight couples don't get legally married because they don't believe in government recognized marriage, or the inequalities it causes for their gay friends.

If getting the paperwork done with an attorney was affordable for us, I really would have preferred that to the marriage license. But $10 vs. $2-4k.....well my cheapness beat out my morals.

Did we ever hear for sure that the parents are paying for the wedding? I think the couple in the op is playing with fire if they are lying to the parents just to get the money. I would argue that accepting money from family for any reason invites problems.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2012 20:40:37 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I know you're all going to say my situation is different because in the eyes of the state I'm in a same sex marriage, but the legal paperwork is not a marriage or a wedding. We've navigated a crappy system as best we can to get the best benefits for ourselves over the years, and that has included not getting the piece of paper even when we 'could' and eventually deciding to get the piece of paper.

My marriage is different. If the state has any reason to get involved in my marriage (like if I kick the bucket and dh tries to claim spousal SS benefits) they will annul our marriage in a heart beat. Are we still really married, and if we are what actually sealed the deal--the spiritual sentiment, the ceremony for family, or the piece of paper? Why would that definition change if we were straight?

Some straight couples don't get legally married because they don't believe in government recognized marriage, or the inequalities it causes for their gay friends.

If getting the paperwork done with an attorney was affordable for us, I really would have preferred that to the marriage license. But $10 vs. $2-4k.....well my cheapness beat out my morals.

Did we ever hear for sure that the parents are paying for the wedding? I think the couple in the op is playing with fire if they are lying to the parents just to get the money. I would argue that accepting money from family for any reason invites problems.

I'm confused. How is it that you got the paper to protect each other (or because you just wanted it), but your state would annul the marriage if they had reason to get involved in your marriage? Ahhhh, I guess you had it done in another state maybe and the state you live in now doesn't recognize it?

No problem if you don't want to answer. I was just curious and came up with a possible answer myself while I was typing.

[weltschmerz]

Apr 23, 2012 17:38:49 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Where did I mention a lawyer, taxes, retirement or a house?

I know plenty of people who are married who don't do dick to protect their spouse. People often leave marriages in much worse shape than when they entered them. Marrying someone opens yourself up to losing half your assets and assuming half their debts. Just because my Mom pulls the plug instead of my "husband" doesn't mean that he or I was better protected.

I came out of my legal marriage in MUCH worse shape than when I entered it. I would never get married again.
If "Mr. Right" falls into my lap in the future, I'll insist on common-law.
Pulling the plug issue could easily be settled with Advaced Directives.

[binl1908]

As far as we knew, my niece was dating a nice Brazilian man. They announced their wedding date and we sent them an expensive engagement gift. However, she then got pregnant and we found out that they had already been married for a year so that he could stay in the US. That dashed her plans for the big wedding she was hoping her parents were going to throw them..... But it did work out, he's a great father and provider, and they have a nice little family going....

[Deleted]

I guess i really don't have a 'problem' with what other people do. It is their life, their choice, their money. If i wanted to go the wedding, i would go and have fun. If not, then i wouldn't. I guess i don't see the point of worrying about what other people do or don't do.

[formerroomate99]

If I eloped and my family were planning on paying for a big wedding later, I would feel the need to be upfront with them about what I had done, because I wouldn't want them to think I lied to them to get them to pay for a big party.

[Angel!]

Apr 24, 2012 4:15:51 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Apr 23, 2012 17:38:49 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Where did I mention a lawyer, taxes, retirement or a house?

I know plenty of people who are married who don't do dick to protect their spouse. People often leave marriages in much worse shape than when they entered them. Marrying someone opens yourself up to losing half your assets and assuming half their debts. Just because my Mom pulls the plug instead of my "husband" doesn't mean that he or I was better protected.

I came out of my legal marriage in MUCH worse shape than when I entered it. I would never get married again.

Marriage isn't always protection for you or your spouse & sometimes it outright screws you. I feel for a lot of people that have to divorce in a community property state.

I guess because I see the downsides of legal marriage, but still understand that a couple might want to consider themselves fully committed I don't have a problem with calling your significant other your spouse.

Boyfriend/girlfriend, significant other, or other terms may not represent the commitment they have made to each other. So what is wrong with husband/wife terms even if they haven't followed it up with a legal marriage.

[Cookies Galore]

Apr 23, 2012 19:58:54 GMT -5 quotequeen said:

I would be extremely offended. And honestly, I don't really get the private/small ceremony and big reception later either. The reception is supposed to be a thank you to your guests for attending your wedding.

because weddings are mind-numbing and people only go for the prospect of free booze and food at the reception. I consider the reception a reward for sitting through the ceremony.

[Firebird]

Did we ever hear for sure that the parents are paying for the wedding? I think the couple in the op is playing with fire if they are lying to the parents just to get the money. I would argue that accepting money from family for any reason invites problems.

They are definitely paying for most of the wedding. I think the groom's family is taking the bulk of the cost. Bridezilla and her groom are paying for relatively small items like the dress and the cake.

And I agree that they're playing with fire by doing this. But even if the family never finds out (unlikely) it's just a shitty, shitty thing to do IMO.

[Firebird]

It is their life, their choice, their money. If i wanted to go the wedding, i would go and have fun. If not, then i wouldn't.

Well actually, it's not their money which is where part of my objection comes into play, but even more than that, people don't always feel free to boycott weddings that they disagree with when the couple in question matters to them. If this couple were close friends of mine, I would still go and celebrate with them - presumably it would be more important to preserve the relationship than to make a huge point of showing my disapproval. Having committed to going, I would try to put my feelings to the side and just have fun with them.

That doesn't mean that they're doing the right thing or being honorable about it. But again, my position on this is that weddings are NOT just about you. If you want to invite family and friends and have them there on your day, then you should take their feelings about certain things into consideration. That's my position.

[raeoflyte]

Apr 24, 2012 1:16:12 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Apr 23, 2012 20:40:37 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I'm confused. How is it that you got the paper to protect each other (or because you just wanted it), but your state would annul the marriage if they had reason to get involved in your marriage? Ahhhh, I guess you had it done in another state maybe and the state you live in now doesn't recognize it?

No problem if you don't want to answer. I was just curious and came up with a possible answer myself while I was typing.

DH is transgendered. All of his paperwork has long been changed to male so we could get a marriage license, but if anyone really looked into it they would anull it as a same-sex marriage. I'm assuming that the coming decades will work that out, and hopefully it won't be an issue for us.

[Firebird]

I guess because I see the downsides of legal marriage, but still understand that a couple might want to consider themselves fully committed I don't have a problem with calling your significant other your spouse.

This is just a philosophical question, but are you really and truly "fully committed" to each other if you won't risk the "downsides" of legal marriage (presuming you have the ability to get legally married, of course)?

I just question what fully committed means in that case. DH told me that he didn't care if we ever got married - like Dark and Loop, he was committed to me in his heart long before we ever got to the big party and legal certificate. He would have lived with me indefinitely and even fathered children with me, all without the legal piece of paper.

But it mattered to me that we get legally married - for me, it makes a difference. Had he refused to get legally married to me (meanwhile insisting that he really was "fully committed" to me) then there's no way I'd be having a baby with him right now. If it doesn't mean anything to you, and your partner wants to do it, then why NOT do it?

If neither one of you cares, then of course, whatever floats your boat. But I just question people who are "truly committed" to their SO but don't want to get legally married (and can). If you're really in it for life, why not go all in? Why hold back?

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2012 11:00:26 GMT -5 Firebird said:

It is their life, their choice, their money. If i wanted to go the wedding, i would go and have fun. If not, then i wouldn't.

Well actually, it's not their money which is where part of my objection comes into play, but even more than that, people don't always feel free to boycott weddings that they disagree with when the couple in question matters to them. If this couple were close friends of mine, I would still go and celebrate with them - presumably it would be more important to preserve the relationship than to make a huge point of showing my disapproval. Having committed to going, I would try to put my feelings to the side and just have fun with them.

That doesn't mean that they're doing the right thing or being honorable about it. But again, my position on this is that weddings are NOT just about you. If you want to invite family and friends and have them there on your day, then you should take their feelings about certain things into consideration. That's my position.

If it isn't their money, then whose money are you talking about other than the cost of a gift. And, whether they were given the money, took out a loan, begged, borrowed or whatever it isn't MY money so what does it matter?
A wedding is not an invitation for another to express their views and opinions on that couple's state of Holy Matrimony. You either go and celebrate or you stay home. To go with an attitude to anyone's wedding is not a very nice thing to do in my opinion. Yeah, you might not think it will work out, might not like the spouse or any number of things. But, for those 3 hours, that is the time for everyone to smile and think happy thoughts. Or, imbibe a bit to help those happy thoughts along! ;D

[raeoflyte]

I don't think this will answer your question because of my background, but to me getting a legal marriage license was a business decision. It made no difference to our personal relationship, or the way anyone else viewed us. For our families the ritual of a wedding allowed them to acknowledge us as spouses, not the piece of paper.

[Firebird]

If it isn't their money, then whose money are you talking about other than the cost of a gift. And, whether they were given the money, took out a loan, begged, borrowed or whatever it isn't MY money so what does it matter?

I'm talking about the fact that their parents think they're paying for a wedding when they're already married. You consider that particular kind of gift "their" money?

[Firebird]

I don't think this will answer your question because of my background, but to me getting a legal marriage license was a business decision.

So if it were possible to do such a thing (and there were no romantic implications whatsoever, just all the legal entanglements of marriage), might you get a marriage license with a good friend or a cousin? That's what "business arrangement" implies to me - something I would do in a platonic relationship.

[Deleted]

No. But, i really don't think it is my business one way or the other. Their parents and their interactions and dealings with one another are not for me to say.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I'm talking about the fact that their parents think they're paying for a wedding when they're already married.

How does that affect you as a wedding guest though? Either you're happy for your friends and want to help them celebrate their relationship or you don't. If you don't, skip the wedding. If you do, go and have fun. I really don't see why you care that much who's paying for the dress, reception, cake, and whatnot. How does that have any bearing on your view of your friend's relationship?

[Deleted]

I think a wedding is the 3 hours of one's live where the bride and groom and everyone around them gets to pretend that all their dreams really will come true and all is right with the world.

[raeoflyte]

Apr 24, 2012 11:38:51 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I don't think this will answer your question because of my background, but to me getting a legal marriage license was a business decision.

So if it were possible to do such a thing (and there were no romantic implications whatsoever, just all the legal entanglements of marriage), might you get a marriage license with a good friend or a cousin? That's what "business arrangement" implies to me - something I would do in a platonic relationship.

Honestly, I can see situations where I would. I have a friend who is here illegally because her same-sex marriage isn't good enough to get a greencard. I'd let dh marry her (if we hadn't already done it) to help them out. State recognized marriage is crap. It's outdated social engineering. I'll work the system--legally-- the way I have to, to get the best situation for myself.

[CarolinaKat]

Apr 24, 2012 11:38:51 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I don't think this will answer your question because of my background, but to me getting a legal marriage license was a business decision.

So if it were possible to do such a thing (and there were no romantic implications whatsoever, just all the legal entanglements of marriage), might you get a marriage license with a good friend or a cousin? That's what "business arrangement" implies to me - something I would do in a platonic relationship.

Some marriages are buisness arrangements, people with strictly platonic relationships can and do get married

ETA: I can think of 3 I know personally off the top of my head

[thyme4change]

That's what "business arrangement" implies to me - something I would do in a platonic relationship.

Unfortunately, not enough people see it as a "business arrangement" and that's why so many people get screwed.

I think a wedding is the 3 hours of one's live where the bride and groom and everyone around them gets to pretend that all their dreams really will come true and all is right with the world.

I worked with a guy who sent a card to our wedding that said "I hope your marriage is as happy as my wife and I thought ours would be." He was hilarious. I'm still laughing about that one, 15 years later. (And he is still happily married to that same wife. He liked to joke, but he was hopeless for her.)

[Firebird]

I really don't see why you care that much who's paying for the dress, reception, cake, and whatnot. How does that have any bearing on your view of your friend's relationship?

It doesn't, that's a separate issue which is my own personal hang-up (I like to know what I'm witnessing, even if it doesn't change my behavior one iota whether it's a real wedding or not - I just like to know). My objection to the way they're having everything paid for doesn't affect me at all as a guest, I just think it's slimy.

And none of this matters that much to me in THIS case because I barely know the couple.