Non-Financial Book Club *UPDATE IN OP*

[Epiphany]

May 1, 2012 11:03:21 GMT -5 lynnerself said:

I've only read book one.
So far the most disturbing thing to me is how this is "entertainment" to the masses.

I think I found this mostly ironic and truthful. If you look at the obsession with reality tv, everything from crazy people to painful topics, our fascination with watching reality tv is at an all time high. I could totally see this happening in hollywood and everyone loving it. Isn't it really just survivor to the nth degree?

Then again we don't have to look very far in history to see it actually did occur - roman gladiators fought to the death in the arenas while people cheered.

[movingforward]

I haven't read all the books yet, but I understand the need to discuss past book one.

As for the question... I think the cruelest part of The Hunger Games is the fact that you are not allowed to leave your district or your overall place in society. The fight to the death and broadcasting it on television as some form of entertainment is extremely cruel but knowing that even if you somehow survive the years where you are vulnerable to this "lottery" that you will still always be where you are. If you are born in a poor and in the agricultural district, for example, that is where you will be forever. Day in and day out you are destined to pick fruit or plant seeds or whatever. There is no hope for a better future. I find that utterly cruel and down right depressing.

[Firebird]

That's the whole idea though. Total control of the government. We can take your kids and you can watch them die- because you pissed us off in the past.

Agreed. I just think it's pretty damn cruel

[Firebird]

and if so then I say what they did to Peeta in book three is the cruelest.

Oh yeah... the creative forms of torture they employ are pretty epic. I hadn't even thought of that.

[Abby Normal]

Then again we don't have to look very far in history to see it actually did occur - roman gladiators fought to the death in the arenas while people cheered

I had the same thought.

[CarolinaKat]

I think the most horrific part is that people think it's 'fun'. The scene where Katniss's prep team is referring to what they were doing when each of the kills happened like it was the olympics instead of kids killing each other. There's a total disconnect that these are PEOPLE (not even grown ones at that) who didn't ask to be there (most of them anyway) and have families that could depend on them to make ends meet and be left with an empty hole when they're gone.

Also, how many people were alive when the Districts revolted, you are 'punishing' people who weren't even alive. There are many ways to keep people under opression (many of which are used) having kids battle to the death for entertainment doesn't have to be amongst them...

Has anyone seen the movie 'Battle Royale'? I watched it in college (Very bad idea) and I swear the author watched that before writing the Hunger Games, very similar...

[wvugurl26]

You people need to put spoiler alerts on your posts!!! I'm only halfway done with Catching Fire.

As for cruel I'd say the fact that the Capitol manipulates and controls everyone. All of the well to do in the Capitol enjoy seeing kids kill each other. This is something so wrong about that.

The Capitol is in total control and if you were born into one of the lower districts, you are just stuck. You have few to no chances to make life even a little more comfortable for yourself. Those in the wealthier districts have the advantages.

[Happy prose]

Just started book 2 last night!!! Q1: I think it's horrible that this is a form of entertainment. And they provide costumes and makeup! The concept is gross.

Can those of you that read further put spoiler alerts in bold?

[movingforward]

"There's a total disconnect that these are PEOPLE (not even grown ones at that) who didn't ask to be there (most of them anyway) and have families that could depend on them to make ends meet and be left with an empty hole when they're gone."

The lack of respect for human life is downright scary.

[movingforward]

I couldn't help but think about the "fanatics" of the 99% when reading this book - only in respect to their exaggerated fear that the 1% is going to gain control of all the wealth and everyone else is going to be left with nothing.

[raeoflyte]

Going back to the 1st person narration comments from earlier--I really would have liked to know more about people in the capitol. The people working in the games are almost certain to be skewed toward the sport of it, but what about the regular people. I would think that 75 years after the revolt people would be over watching kids kill each other.

[lynnerself]

I have a question not pertinent to the cruelty discussion.

My daughter never read past the first book.
She saw it as too much of a "Mary Sue" story.

Does this aspect continue in the other 2 books?

[zibazinski]

I thought it was a bore and poorly written. No wonder it appeals. Like the Twilight books/movies, poorly written and thought out.

[InsertCoolName]

Don't know who/what you mean by Mary Sue. I just kept thinking it was too much like Lord of the Flies.

[lynnerself]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfilment fantasy for the author or reader. It is generally accepted as a character whose positive aspects overwhelm their other traits until they become one-dimensional.

[Epiphany]

I think some of the "mary sue" quality of katniss is because it is written a young adult fiction. I felt the author sometimes stunted description of a deep moment because of the YA rating. So much of katniss' character growth is reactionary to a given situation. "ok, I must try to win to save my family" "ok, I must act the part in order to save my family and those I love" on through the second and third books. I felt as though she was always fighting to just keep up with what was given to her

SPOILER BELOW:



When she finally goes off the deep end in the third book and withdraws into herself is when she finally has time to stop reacting and really think about the situations. I think her character grows and is not one dimensional at all

[Epiphany]

are we supposed to ask other questions or will you give other ones firebird? I'm assuming this discussion is going to continue for a few days?

[KaraBoo]

I too thought the book was poorly written and it affects how I feel about the series. I kept waiting on Katniss to get a clue, grow, or "figure it out" so to speak. Maybe it's because I don't read much Teen/YA fiction, but I was still disappointed.

As for the question - I agree that I thought the Capitol and the inhabitants being disconnected from the idea that people are killing each other for THEIR sport, is probably the most cruel. What type of mind-games was the government playing on them to make them oblivious to the reality of what was happening? The way I see it, all of the people were being played - not just the ones outside of the Capitol.

I realize we're not talking about the movie - but I wanted to comment on it as well.....

I was bored with it and so was my DH, brother and his fiance. I was the only one that read the series, so I knew what was going to happen and I still found myself trying to stay awake. My four kids - 2 of which have read the series, also had mixed reviews - 1 loved it, 2 said it was okay, 1 didn't care for it. 3 out of the 4 said most of the movie was boring (only the 16 year old girl thought it had just the right amount of violence, romance and action).

[Deleted]

I have only read the first book and the total control by the capital was the most disturbing part for me.
I agree the short sentences maybe because of the age of the audience it is intended for.
I did not find it boring. I enjoy a quick read once in awhile.
I was anxious to see what would happen to Katniss. I didn't feel that connected to her character, but I did to the horror of the storyline I quess.
I'm not in a great hurry to read the other books but probably will eventually.

[Firebird]

I would think that 75 years after the revolt people would be over watching kids kill each other.

I'd actually think the opposite - it would take about that long (a couple generations) to get people desensitized enough to the idea of kids killing kids that they could find it enjoyable entertainment. You'd think at first there would be at least a healthy majority who felt squeamish about it.

I thought it was a bore and poorly written. No wonder it appeals. Like the Twilight books/movies, poorly written and thought out.

Gee, thanks for telling us how lame we are for enjoying it

I've only read excerpts of the Twilight stories posted on a blog. Just by reading those I can assure you that the writing is miles beyond Twilight, if only because it delves into deeper themes than "OMG SHIRTLESS IMMORTAL BOYS THAT LIKE ME". It may not be your cup of tea, but it's a much higher quality of story and the heroine is about a million times more likable and sane.

When she finally goes off the deep end in the third book and withdraws into herself is when she finally has time to stop reacting and really think about the situations. I think her character grows and is not one dimensional at all

Couldn't agree more. Her character arc is real and very interesting to read about, compared to Bella who is exactly the same at the beginning and end of the series.

Are we ready for another question?

[Firebird]

I too thought the book was poorly written and it affects how I feel about the series. I kept waiting on Katniss to get a clue, grow, or "figure it out" so to speak.

I think you guys are expecting quite a bit from a character that - after all - IS a teenager at the time. She's 16 years old; how much of a clue did you have at that age? And did you have to support your mother and young sister after your dad died by selling on the black market?

But I guess I don't expect protagonists to be perfect I actually liked that she was flawed and didn't seem to be all that delusional about that fact. She points out at several different times throughout the series that she's being selfish, or that another character is giving her way too much credit, or that she isn't a very likable person. Show me ONE instance in the Twilight series where Bella displays that kind of self-awareness.

As for the movie, I would have found it boring if I hadn't already read the book. There were some slow parts for sure, but if you'd read what Katniss was thinking at the time, they became more interesting.

[Abby Normal]

I wouldn't say it's poorly written, I would say it's simply written. It is definitely written for a younger crowd. It's not my normal type of read, but I did enjoy it. It just didn't take long to get through it. Nothing to think about or mull over. As an adult- I wish more complexity had been written into the story but it had a good base plot. But the group it was meant for- the teen and tween girls seem to love it. Anything that encourages the kids to read instead of playing games, boy chasing, mall shopping etc- is a good book to me.

[Firebird]

For you guys that are saying it was simply written, not much to it - did you read past Book One? Because I think that the second and third books (even though they're still narrated by Katniss) move away from her as an individual and start exploring the greater themes hinted at in the first book - the idea of centralized government having total control, the effects of war on young soldiers, the devastation of having to rebuild after something or someone you love is taken away, etc. It definitely gets deeper as you go on, as most of these series do.

[movingforward]

I agree Firebird. It is a young adult series... I found it enjoyable and entertaining. As far as it being like Twilight, I don't think so...

I am ready for another question

[Abby Normal]

May 2, 2012 11:59:44 GMT -5 Firebird said:

For you guys that are saying it was simply written, not much to it - did you read past Book One? Because I think that the second and third books (even though they're still narrated by Katniss) move away from her as an individual and start exploring the greater themes hinted at in the first book - the idea of centralized government having total control, the effects of war on young soldiers, the devastation of having to rebuild after something or someone you love is taken away, etc. It definitely gets deeper as you go on, as most of these series do.

Assuming that was directed at me- yes. The plot does get more complex, but the writting style remains simple. Perfect for the audience it was intended.

[movingforward]

"I would say it's simply written."

I am pretty simple - ha!

[Firebird]

Okay, second discussion question (just let me know when you guys feel we've talked through a question enough and I'll provide another, I think that's the best way to keep things moving):

If you were Prim, how would you have felt when Katniss volunteered to take your place?

[CarolinaKat]

May 2, 2012 11:59:44 GMT -5 Firebird said:

For you guys that are saying it was simply written, not much to it - did you read past Book One? Because I think that the second and third books (even though they're still narrated by Katniss) move away from her as an individual and start exploring the greater themes hinted at in the first book - the idea of centralized government having total control, the effects of war on young soldiers, the devastation of having to rebuild after something or someone you love is taken away, etc. It definitely gets deeper as you go on, as most of these series do.

IMO Book 2 shows no improvements in writing style/storytelling.

Also, I hate it when people assume it must be simply written to appeal to kids/young adults. I LOVED the Three Musketeers, Ivanhoe, Jane Eyre- type writing before I hit highschool. This books is written simply enough for gradeshoolers to read, but the subject material is NOT APPROPRIATE. I can see DBF's 7yo niece being ok with the level of writing, but the subject matter not so much...

[Happy prose]

She probably felt safe and protected, which I'm sure she had come to expect of Katniss. She had to also be confused because a girl of 12 (I think she was 12) couldn't possibly understand all that was going on.

[movingforward]

May 2, 2012 12:29:55 GMT -5 Happy prose said:

She probably felt safe and protected, which I'm sure she had come to expect of Katniss. She had to also be confused because a girl of 12 (I think she was 12) couldn't possibly understand all that was going on.

Probably also a sense of guilt because that would only be natural. Later on, just out of pure survival mode, I would think the thought that she and her mom might starve to death if Katniss doesn't make it probably also crossed her mind.