Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2012 12:44:21 GMT -5
Um, just wondering how many of us "were on the way" prior to the ceremony? lol Thank goodness for fuzzy math!
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mizbear
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Post by mizbear on Apr 24, 2012 14:43:11 GMT -5
Good point shooby- and if someone delivered early but was not pregnant out of wedlock- you know tongues will flap over that
Gotta love Peyton Place.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 24, 2012 14:53:15 GMT -5
I went to a wedding where they announced the pregnancy during the reception. It was cool in that family, but if we would have done that, we would have had to have a line of ambulances to take out various members of the family who would have had heart attacks, strokes or simply just died of embarrassment. We come from a long line of stuffy, proper, god-fearing people. It would have been considered vulgar.
So, naturally, I waited 5 years to get pregnant. I didn't want there to be any problems with math.
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mizbear
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Post by mizbear on Apr 24, 2012 18:06:14 GMT -5
If a school wants a teacher gone- they will use these clauses to their advantage to get rid of perfectly good educators. Someone brought up abortion. Married or not- if she had an abortion- she probably would have been fired for having one if this is a conservatve organization. Wouldn't matter if the abortion was elective or medically necessary. It violated their morals.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Apr 25, 2012 4:12:16 GMT -5
Also, what is the message they are sending anyway? Maybe the message is that you're expected to uphold your end of a contract? If you give your word on something, you need to keep it? Or maybe the message is that there are consequences to entering an agreement and not doing your part to meet it? I can think of a lot of messages that are being sent with the main one NOT being that she got fired for getting pregnant. Maybe that's part of the reason so many kids feel they shouldn't have to pay back $100K in student loans taken out for Basket Weaving degrees..... Or why so many people think it's fine to walk away from their mortgages.... We shouldn't have negative consequences for backing out of contracts we sign.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2012 5:56:30 GMT -5
Well, what DID her contract say specifically? If there is a "morals" clause, then again, that is always selectively applied at someone's whim. One only need to read the Old Testament to see there were all manner of ways to sin morally against God. And, the message of Christianity is that all are sinners who have been redeemed. So, technically, perhaps, the administrator who fired her should be fired for not demonstrating the love, mercy, and compassion that are ALSO the hallmark.
Again, i am just making a point that there there is selective application. And, as for explaining to little kids, explaining "contractual obligations" isn't something most kindergarteners understand either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2012 5:57:36 GMT -5
Also, what is the message they are sending anyway? Maybe the message is that you're expected to uphold your end of a contract? If you give your word on something, you need to keep it? Or maybe the message is that there are consequences to entering an agreement and not doing your part to meet it? I can think of a lot of messages that are being sent with the main one NOT being that she got fired for getting pregnant. Maybe that's part of the reason so many kids feel they shouldn't have to pay back $100K in student loans taken out for Basket Weaving degrees..... Or why so many people think it's fine to walk away from their mortgages.... We shouldn't have negative consequences for backing out of contracts we sign. But, that is a good point as well. And, the lines between forgiveness and second chances and suffering the consequences of your actions have to be drawn somewhere.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Apr 25, 2012 16:20:48 GMT -5
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mizbear
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Post by mizbear on Apr 25, 2012 16:32:30 GMT -5
SMH
When will we get out of the dark ages.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Apr 25, 2012 17:51:00 GMT -5
Wedlock or no wedlock is not something that crosses a 6 year olds mind. She was teaching middle school science. They're old enough at that age to understand pregnancy out of wedlock.... abcnews.go.com/US/texas-teacher-cathy-samford-fired-unwed-pregnancy-offered/story?id=16115051#.T5h7_KtYtstAgain, she made a choice to work at that particular school knowing about the morals clause. I still see this situation about making a choice to ignore her contractual agreement and now she's shocked that there are consequences she didn't think about. I'm pretty certain MOST people can think of items in their own employment agreements they'd prefer to ignore, like showing up for work on time.
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DVM gone riding
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Post by DVM gone riding on Apr 25, 2012 23:43:16 GMT -5
Again, i am just making a point that there there is selective application. And, as for explaining to little kids, explaining "contractual obligations" isn't something most kindergarteners understand either. Well I understand your point and agree that these things aren't equal--1-she was teaching much higher levels 2--its pretty hard to find ANY argument where pre marital pregnancy isn't considered amoral by virtually every judeo-christian-muslim like religion currently on the planet 3--I fully agree with you that any man caught engaging in pre-marital sex should also be fired, especially if the children would know (but regardless really) She was an EXAMPLE to the students and she screwed it up big time. If she had been a student that would be a different story but from what others have said most likely they would expel the student too.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 26, 2012 6:49:52 GMT -5
here's another one (link to come when it's posted on msnbc later) I'm watching on the Today show now. there's a woman claiming she was fired from her teaching position at a Catholic school for undergoing in vitro fertilization. for starters, she wasn't fired - her contract wasn't renewed. that is entirely different. and second, this is knowingly spitting in the face of the tenets of the Church that she's employed by. the clip had a quote from a diocesan official who said that employees were required, as a condition of employment, to have an understanding and respect for the tenets of the Church....." I forget the rest right now. I'm so dumbfounded by the woman saying "no, I had no idea I could lose my job for this." um.....what? wow. ETA: link to video clip here. today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/47186599#47186599
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 26, 2012 9:17:00 GMT -5
Someone got fired for speaking out when Creighton decided not to welcome a pro-life lecturer. He was speaking out against it on school grounds and publically. That flies in the face of Catholic doctrine and he was doing it while representing the school.
I haven't heard anything about him getting on the news claiming it was unjustified and trying to sue.
Pregnant women draw media attention, people feel sorry for them, it brings in ratings. We have no clue how many teachers male or female have been fired otherwise from this school for moral violations because none of them apparently felt the need to run to the media and cry.
A man getting fired for cheating on his wife, well that isn't going to be news, people are going to say he deserved it and change the channel.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 1, 2012 18:17:43 GMT -5
They can do whatever they want. I don't care. But, the message of Christianity is forgiveness. The message of Christianity is "come as you are". The idea that they only employ perfect and sinless people is a false religion. Some of us think that every religion is a false religion. So what? This school has just as much right to their religious beliefs as you do to yours or I do to mine. That is what "freedom of religion" means.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 1, 2012 18:26:55 GMT -5
No. I understand what you are saying. But, my point isn't that they applied it to her. My point is that i bet you dollars for donuts there are others who have done things equally wrong in their eyes that they did nothing about. I'm sure that is true. However, what she has done is very public and will come to the attention of the children at the school. Parents who choose that school are surely going to object to an unmarried, pregnant teacher. Isn't the point of the school to educate the children academically and in their particular belief system? What if parents begin pulling out their kids, en masse?
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 1, 2012 18:40:43 GMT -5
How so? She may have violated a code of conduct, but I disagree her choice has impacted her ability to do her job. Are you a member of the school board of the private school in question? If not, it doesn't matter if you agree or disagree.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on May 1, 2012 20:04:55 GMT -5
If a school wants a teacher gone- they will use these clauses to their advantage to get rid of perfectly good educators. Someone brought up abortion. Married or not- if she had an abortion- she probably would have been fired for having one if this is a conservatve organization. Wouldn't matter if the abortion was elective or medically necessary. It violated their morals. But they wouldn't know. Most health ins doesn't cover it and even if they do insurance companies wont release that info to the employers. It is a HIPPA law. They get general info only. If she had had an abortion she would have continued on like nothing happened and they would not have cared. Which is why I think it is stupid to say it is to promote their christian values, unless promoting women having abortions instead of having the babies is what they mean.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 1, 2012 20:06:50 GMT -5
Well, for some reason she didn't get married so promoting an unwed mother at a Christian school doesn't work.
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Post by jemima on May 4, 2012 15:59:08 GMT -5
# 1 - Total insanity. Religion should be kept out of education policies unless it's being taught in the Curriculum.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 4, 2012 16:01:33 GMT -5
Well - this is a christian school, run by private dollars - so they can and do add religious instruction.
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Post by jemima on May 4, 2012 16:08:10 GMT -5
Well - this is a christian school, run by private dollars - so they can and do add religious instruction. Fair enough. But I do think there's more important things to worry about for schools - it's children's education.
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