Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Apr 21, 2012 13:33:14 GMT -5
Did a bit of research - fired teacher is 29 y/o, divorced with 2 children who attended school too and is engaged to the father of this child. At the time she informed administration of her pregnancy she said that she and her fiance were willing to get married if that would "help." She now states that their marriage has been delayed due to difficulties. o know IMHO - this is a contractual issue and the school was correct in firing her for violating the morals clause. However, I can't help wondering why the couple did not marry as soon as they discovered she was pregnant, thus making it difficult for anyone to know exactly what order events transpired.
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DVM gone riding
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Post by DVM gone riding on Apr 21, 2012 14:05:38 GMT -5
I am still shocked I agree with everything (more or less) TT said in a thread!
Yeah it is a "special" kind of stupid that has sex (which I totally think was a firing offense on its own) and gets pregnant while not being married and she has her two kids at the school as well. If I were that dumb you better believe I would be married legally before the school ever had any reason to wonder/believe I was pregnant.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2012 14:35:57 GMT -5
Well, "stupid" is part of being human. I don't know anyone that hasn't done a boatload of stupid at one time or another.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Apr 21, 2012 14:37:53 GMT -5
Plus it wuld be fun to see who actually had the nerve to ask - lol!
I always remember the old saying - the first one can come any time, after that they take nine months.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Apr 21, 2012 14:47:05 GMT -5
However, I can't help wondering why the couple did not marry as soon as they discovered she was pregnant, thus making it difficult for anyone to know exactly what order events transpired. Because maybe then she wouldn't receive publicity that could potentially lead to a settlement? A lot of questions have been asked and very few answered. The funniest thing is that the news media has spun it so well that most people are ignoring the whole issue of contract negation. Everyone is focused on the single, pregnant woman being fired. Good PR machine!
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leanna
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Post by leanna on Apr 21, 2012 17:37:22 GMT -5
Would they have asked her to step down if the child was conceived due to a sexual assault? What about a student who had been assaulted? Before you answer- I'd like you to consider the following- I have been out of school 18 years. 20 years ago, I finally got the nerve to press charges against my father for sexual abuse. The high school I was attending had a tenured administrator who was able to push me out- even though there was supposed to be inter-county cooperation since my program was not available where I was going in the next county. When I got back to my old school district, teachers, students and staff were permitted to openly harrass me for being sexually abused. If the woman is a good teacher- let her teach. So maybe her being pregnant out of wedlock is not the best example- but would you rather have some judgmental person who teaches hate in the classroom? BTW- we only had 1 parochial/private high school in our area at the time and they refused to take me because "I was a bad influence". I just want to say how very sorry I am that you were sexually abused. And then harassed and demeaned. What a terrible trauma to go through. You are a kind person MizBear, and I'm so sorry you have suffered so much.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2012 17:50:26 GMT -5
Agreed.
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mizbear
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Post by mizbear on Apr 21, 2012 20:57:55 GMT -5
Seriously though- in a world where you have to worry about your kids getting molested at school by teachers and at church by the priests- Is this really that big an issue? ? Let her square this one out with her God. I would rather have a pregnant unmarried teacher in the classroom than someone who can't keep their hands to themselves or puts down children or does not keep the best interest of her students at heart.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 22, 2012 11:57:56 GMT -5
There's more to the story and some reason she wasn't getting married. They let a divorced woman work there, how much are they supposed to bend?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 22, 2012 12:01:27 GMT -5
Yes, it is a big issue. I taught in a public school and we had a first grade teacher who became pregnant in between being hired and actually starting her job. The admin wasn't thrilled, the parents weren't thrilled because that means she not only had no morals but , even worse, would be leaving in the middle of the school year. Parents that wished were allowed to have their child removed from her class. Believe me, there are enough parents who don't care that it was a non-issue and she still had a class full of students.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2012 11:12:36 GMT -5
Yes, it is a big issue. I taught in a public school and we had a first grade teacher who became pregnant in between being hired and actually starting her job. The admin wasn't thrilled, the parents weren't thrilled because that means she not only had no morals but , even worse, would be leaving in the middle of the school year. Parents that wished were allowed to have their child removed from her class. Believe me, there are enough parents who don't care that it was a non-issue and she still had a class full of students. I'm sorry, but what is the 'no morals' part?
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Apr 23, 2012 11:18:38 GMT -5
Yes, it is a big issue. I taught in a public school and we had a first grade teacher who became pregnant in between being hired and actually starting her job. The admin wasn't thrilled, the parents weren't thrilled because that means she not only had no morals but , even worse, would be leaving in the middle of the school year. Parents that wished were allowed to have their child removed from her class. Believe me, there are enough parents who don't care that it was a non-issue and she still had a class full of students.And what is wrong with that? Does being a "good" teacher boil down to only closing your legs and not taking time off to give birth during the school year? Thank God there are still parents and students who look past superficial things and actually look for a teacher who is good, rather than focusing on the "morals" part of it.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 23, 2012 11:57:42 GMT -5
Yes, it is a big issue. I taught in a public school and we had a first grade teacher who became pregnant in between being hired and actually starting her job. The admin wasn't thrilled, the parents weren't thrilled because that means she not only had no morals but , even worse, would be leaving in the middle of the school year. Parents that wished were allowed to have their child removed from her class. Believe me, there are enough parents who don't care that it was a non-issue and she still had a class full of students. I'm sorry, but what is the 'no morals' part? I guess a better question for me would be "what is the moral part"? This is a difficult issue for me. I do not believe in sex outside of marriage. I know that's a outdated belief but it's mine. On my part, it's a practice of my beliefs. That being said, as a Christian, I love - not judge. That's not my job. I guess what I would have to do is decide what I would want my children to be taught if I had them. Each parent has the right to make that decision. Do you want your child to grow up thinking having sex and possibly a baby outside of marriage is ok? Or do you want the to grow up thinking it's not? There are, of course, gray areas. I'm glad it's not me making the decision.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2012 12:12:01 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but what is the 'no morals' part? I guess a better question for me would be "what is the moral part"? This is a difficult issue for me. I do not believe in sex outside of marriage. I know that's a outdated belief but it's mine. On my part, it's a practice of my beliefs. That being said, as a Christian, I love - not judge. That's not my job. I guess what I would have to do is decide what I would want my children to be taught if I had them. Each parent has the right to make that decision. Do you want your child to grow up thinking having sex and possibly a baby outside of marriage is ok? Or do you want the to grow up thinking it's not? There are, of course, gray areas. I'm glad it's not me making the decision. In a public school you don't get to choose the teacher. How would that work - one parent doesn't think mothers should work so that removes teachers from the pool for her child, one doesn't want a male teacher, one doesn't want a non-christian teacher, and on and on. Unless the teacher did something that violated her contract, there is no issue. And honestly, the only way you know a woman had sex outside of marriage is if she gets pregnant and continues the pregnancy.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Apr 23, 2012 12:54:50 GMT -5
And honestly, the only way you know a woman had sex outside of marriage is if she gets pregnant and continues the pregnancy.Exactly.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 23, 2012 12:58:40 GMT -5
.
It's quite simple. If I did have children, I wouldn't send them to a public school. Of course, as we've seen, that doesn't guarantee that the teachers there subscribe to the same life choices as I.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 23, 2012 13:03:55 GMT -5
Of course I agree. But the fact remains she DID get pregnant and that's a pretty good sign that she violated the morals clause in her contract that obviously prohibited pre-marital sex.
I don't disagree that it smacks of a bit of hyprocrasy, but I highly doubt any school is going to institute an "inspect the vagina for penetration" or see if there are signs that a penis has been recently fired. So what barometer do they have? A pregnancy is a pretty good one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2012 13:22:11 GMT -5
Of course I agree. But the fact remains she DID get pregnant and that's a pretty good sign that she violated the morals clause in her contract that obviously prohibited pre-marital sex. I don't disagree that it smacks of a bit of hyprocrasy, but I highly doubt any school is going to institute an "inspect the vagina for penetration" or see if there are signs that a penis has been recently fired. So what barometer do they have? A pregnancy is a pretty good one. I was responding to Zib's post which talked about a public school teacher and saying that her getting pregnant showed a lack of morals.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 23, 2012 13:25:58 GMT -5
Oh. I'm very sorry. You quoted my post and I thought you were responding to me. My bad.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2012 13:49:11 GMT -5
Oh. I'm very sorry. You quoted my post and I thought you were responding to me. My bad. I think the two got tangled together. Yes, obviously a private school can have whatever rules they want. Zib stated that a new teacher, in a public school, got pregnant between signing her contract and starting and that 'the parents weren't thrilled because that means she not only had no morals' . I'm not sure how just because you (generic you) may think sex before marriage is immoral, not everyone shares that view and that in a public school there are so many viewpoints of what is and isn't 'moral' you could never have a morals clause.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 23, 2012 13:50:16 GMT -5
I'm not sure there are very many parents at my school who were virgins on their wedding night.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 23, 2012 13:54:52 GMT -5
Nor mine, Thyme. In fact, it was common knowledge that two of my high school teachers were doing the wild thing after everybody left for the day. They were both married to other people. Turned out not to be just gossip because they later both divorced and got married to one another.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 23, 2012 15:23:25 GMT -5
Shooby, I agree with you that the fact that women get pregnant and men don't means that a woman is more likely to get caught up in a morals clause.
But as for the message they are supposed to send, how on earth is this woman supposed to tell kids to not have sex outside marriage if the is obviously flouting the rules herself? And what kind of message would the school be sending keeping this kind of woman around? Kids need to learn that actions have consequences. How is keeping her around going to help with that? The school is in a no-win situation here. If they keep her, they are telling hundreds of children that sex outside marriage is ok and that actions don't have consequences. If they get rid of her, they are supposidly being 'judgmental' or 'unmerciful'.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 23, 2012 15:39:12 GMT -5
Parents don't appreciate losing their teacher in the middle of the school year, number one. Subs are just that-subs, and 1st grade is very important. Number 2, you get to explain why " Miss so and so " is pregnant without a husband. Bad enough I had to explain oral sex to my 3rd grader, thank you Bill and Monica. She didn't come back after she had the baby so it was a non-issue. Don't know what parents told their kids. Just know what i would have told mine but they had been out of that school for years. I suppose the parents that were okay with it said whatever. Probably had no husbands, either, so t was no big deal.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Apr 23, 2012 15:43:01 GMT -5
you get to explain why " Miss so and so " is pregnant without a husband.
Why would you have to do that? DS's KG teacher was pregnant in the middle of school year last school year and left on a 6 week maternity leave. All the kids knew she was going to have a baby. No-one asked if she had a husband or not. Wedlock or no wedlock is not something that crosses a 6 year olds mind.
Again, how would the kids know if the teacher has a husband (or not)? Unless the school decides to make an announcement, I don't see the kids being interested at all.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 23, 2012 15:57:13 GMT -5
Side note - Can we do away with Miss and Mrs.? I think we should all just become Ms. at 18 years old or whatever. It isn't like we call men "Master" until they are married. Time to go generic.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Apr 23, 2012 19:14:19 GMT -5
That I agree with. My mom is a teacher. Years ago my friend's daughter went to my mom's school. Whenever I would see this little girl, she would always talk/ask about my mom. "I saw Mrs. G in school today!" or "How's Mrs. G?"
One time my friend said to her daughter, "You always ask about Mrs. G, but you never ask about Mr. G." The little girl looked completely appalled and said, "There's no Mr. G!" The thought that my mom was married had never crossed her little mind. She did eventually meet my father and learn who he was.
But the point is that kids don't think their teachers have any life outside of school. They don't view teachers as people, just teachers.
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mizbear
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Post by mizbear on Apr 23, 2012 23:20:51 GMT -5
I remember being very young- going to public school- and there being a big, noisy stink because my first grade teacher chose to leave and divorce an abusive husband whose choices could be called unethical and immoral at the minimum. There were people who wanted her dismissed because of the example she was setting. This was the early 1980s. But lest I digress- I was raised no sex before marriage- something I abided by. However- my very conservative grandparents did not expect my teachers to follow their beliefs. They expected them to provide me with a safe educational environment and teach me the subjects that they were assigned to the best of their ability and training. And before anyone jumps on my morality with the way that is worded- 10 years- you figure it out- I've been divorced for 8. Women are held to a double standard by these morality clauses- and women tend to be the biggest defenders of these clauses. Why? I am not going to shoved back into the past. There are other ways to handle these issues- keeping with ones morals, graciously and appropriately.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2012 23:48:10 GMT -5
What is so tough about explaining things to your kids? Yes. We have to explain all manner of things to our kids. That is part of life. Part of raising children is teaching them that not everyone lives and acts exactly as we do or prescribe. But, i don't think one would need to explain much at all to a young child whether she stayed or left.
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leanna
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Post by leanna on Apr 24, 2012 12:42:50 GMT -5
Women are held to a double standard by these morality clauses- and women tend to be the biggest defenders of these clauses. Why? I am not going to shoved back into the past. There are other ways to handle these issues- keeping with ones morals, graciously and appropriately. I totally agree with you MizBear and another poster who mentioned these type of policies often unfairly target women. I know it might shock people but people DO get pregnant out of wedlock. Kids will run into this. I don't see why parents can't just use it as a teaching moment, if it even comes up, rather than make such drama about it. As a child, I never thought about my teacher's personal lives.
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