NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 12, 2012 13:07:37 GMT -5
To play Devil's Advocate, maybe not. They might not choose to go to the media about it. Nobody is going to be outraged at a dude who committed adultery getting fired from the school.
But a pregnant woman? Now THAT is news.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Apr 12, 2012 13:23:05 GMT -5
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 12, 2012 13:35:19 GMT -5
Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a private Facebook message. If someone wants to keep something private, the LAST place they should put it is on Facebook....or any other internet sight. If someone has private thoughts they need to put down in writing, get a diary and lock it up.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 12, 2012 13:36:08 GMT -5
Talking about nervy. Years ago my former company hired the most pushy person on earth. I mean, no boundaries at all. When one of her subordinates had dental work done, instead of asking for a doctor's note on stationery, she insisted on having the woman open her mouth so she could check her teeth. I joked to my coworker that she would have an excellent job buying and selling horseflesh or human slaves. Wonder what she would have done if the leave had been for a hysterectomy.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 12, 2012 13:36:18 GMT -5
Type a fake letter on letterhead and publish it, and see how your company likes it.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Apr 12, 2012 13:38:36 GMT -5
Well, I work for a newspaper, so this has been discussed today, and the general sentiment here, including from the management, was, "Really? He got fired for THAT?!?"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 13:39:11 GMT -5
Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a private Facebook message. If someone wants to keep something private, the LAST place they should put it is on Facebook....or any other internet sight. If someone has private thoughts they need to put down in writing, get a diary and lock it up. I agree. I am very cautious on Facebook. But, i have do have privacy settings. And, if some employer asked for my password, i would tell them no. Why should they have access to read privately sent messages between myself and friends and they have no right to then read my friend's personal info. That is truly crossing the line.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 12, 2012 13:42:04 GMT -5
Ummm - I just read that. It doesn't sound like a joke at all. It really sounds like they published that, and it puts a BUNCH of words into their mouth. Sure, the quote might be from his offer letter, and the other points might be from the job posting - but that is twisted in a circle and made to look like something it isn't. I can totally see why they don't trust him now. Which part of that is funny?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 12, 2012 13:46:13 GMT -5
Or the procto....
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 12, 2012 13:47:25 GMT -5
I don't have a Facebook account, shooby, so I'm not talking from any kind of personal experience I have - just horror stories I've read about. There are probably ways to protect yourself better on there that people just don't take the trouble to use. I don't really know. I shouldn't be disparaging something I know nothing about.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 12, 2012 13:48:52 GMT -5
Let her get down in there, and then fart in her mouth.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 12, 2012 13:51:36 GMT -5
LOL!! I could NEVER pass gas in public. I can barely do it in private unless my tummy hurts so bad I can't help it! Even then, it makes me ashamed!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 12, 2012 13:53:01 GMT -5
I just did it sitting here at my desk.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Apr 12, 2012 13:53:31 GMT -5
Oh dear.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Apr 12, 2012 13:54:50 GMT -5
I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree about that thyme. I see that as a "no harm, no foul" issue. I didn't see a single thing that disparaged his company.
ETA: In the past couple of hours the reporter press release story has lit up my Twitter feed and online trade publications. I guess a lot of other papers didn't think it was a big deal either. Apparently the newly hired/fired reporter has begun receiving job offers from around the country and a journalism trade publication asked him to write a personal perspective on what happened to him.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Apr 16, 2012 5:29:31 GMT -5
So, a surgeon who drinks heavily at a party the night before surgery is OK? How about a police officer who does recreational drugs while not in uniform? There are positions that require a certain standard of behavior at ALL times. That should be considered when entering those careers. I know the Rockwall, TX are fairly well. There are other schools she could have elected to teach at. She chose a private facility that had specific requirements. Crying "foul" now is just like someone who got their degree in music appreciation and now wants to have their $100K in student loans forgiven. She knew what she was walking in to, but now wants the rules changed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 5:37:24 GMT -5
No. It is just there are many lapses in morality. But, as a society, we hone in on certain things as oh so terrible and ignore others. My point on gluttony. But, beware, that one is coming to the forefront soon. And, smokers, many places no longer hiring smokers. Obviously we should hire anyone who is divorced either as that also must speak to a lack of character, right? Are there any divorced people at the school? Wonder how they explain that to the little kiddies who can't seemingly understand a pregnant woman but can understand that? Sure.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 16, 2012 10:26:16 GMT -5
there any divorced people at the school? Wonder how they explain that to the little kiddies who can't seemingly understand a pregnant woman but can understand that?
Well a divorce isn't obvious unless the teacher is sitting talking about it 24/7. And if that is the case I would not be surprised if their morality clause kicked in.
But that isn't ratings raising type of news. They may also have not felt the need to go to the media, they may accept they broke the rules and employment was terminated.
A pregnancy like it or not can't be hidden after a certain amount of time and is a nautral curiousity for kids, they will ask questions.
The school felt that was going to lead to questions that could lead to answers against their teachings.
While I think morality clauses are BS I can understand why the school choose to enforce it.
Busytoys is right, she knew the rules you can't cry foul when they catch up to you. If you want to be a cafeteria Christian then you don't choose to work for a school that has a morality clause based on their doctrine.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 16, 2012 10:44:45 GMT -5
A church my mother was associated with fired their preacher when he divorced his wife. The church was not against divorce as a whole - but they thought the situation was inappropriate for the leader of the church. He left his wife for another woman. The man then came to a church we attended, and when word got out about his indescretions, he employment was ended. Now, I'm not sure if his employment was ended because he had a sorted marital past, or if he was just not that great at preaching - because that second thing was true too. So, yes, there are professions were being divorced is a problem.
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Clever Username
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Post by Clever Username on Apr 16, 2012 10:59:30 GMT -5
Shooby. You seem quite the fan of the Salami Arguement. Take a known item (a single pregnant woman obviously demonstrates sex outside of wedlock) and keep shaving infitesimal fractions off and declare the whole darned thing a salami.
I call foul.
Sure, it's interesting to wonder how the church leaders will balance contraditions such as if the teacher is repentant. But we are not privvy to that side of the situation.
Knowing nothing about this school, why would you suspect their morals are applied differently in other circumstances.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Apr 16, 2012 15:45:36 GMT -5
You've presented two scenarios that are not really comparable.
If a surgeon drinks the night before, that's not anyone's business unless he shows up to work still intoxicated or too hungover to function properly. Once your choices outside of work impact your ability to properly do your job that changes things.
As far as a police officer doing recreational drugs while not in uniform, that's illegal no matter who you are, so I would say that's a problem. If I was arrested for doing drugs, I'm pretty sure I'd lose my job.
I see a huge difference between people making legal choices in their personal life, like having a child out of wedlock, versus something illegal or that could jeopardize your ability to do your job.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 16, 2012 16:03:14 GMT -5
This isn't a problem with employers in general. This is a problem with religious organizations and their overbearing judgemental attitude towards everyone.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 16, 2012 16:05:10 GMT -5
I wouldn't say "many" as the number of organization that have acutally asked for a facebook password is pretty limited.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Apr 16, 2012 18:06:04 GMT -5
You've presented two scenarios that are not really comparable. If a surgeon drinks the night before, that's not anyone's business unless he shows up to work still intoxicated or too hungover to function properly. Once your choices outside of work impact your ability to properly do your job that changes things. As far as a police officer doing recreational drugs while not in uniform, that's illegal no matter who you are, so I would say that's a problem. If I was arrested for doing drugs, I'm pretty sure I'd lose my job. I see a huge difference between people making legal choices in their personal life, like having a child out of wedlock, versus something illegal or that could jeopardize your ability to do your job. Actually, it's not different scenarios..... The teacher made choices in her private life that negatively impacted her ability to function appropriately in her job. She chose to be an educator in a non-secular school. Unwed pregnancy would be an obvious violation of the school stance of abstinence until marriage. Recreational drugs are not always illegal..... It all depends on the state you live in. From hearing all the stories from my BIL about how easy it is to get medical marijuana in California, that officer could have a "bad" back and need relaxation. Would you really want your surgeon operating on you when they tied one on the night before? I certainly wouldn't..... Again, this particular young lady had several options for employment in that area of Texas. She chose to be an educator at this particular school, so needs to abide by their employment rules or leave. It's not a reason, in my mind, to now cry that she's being discriminated against and did nothing wrong.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Apr 17, 2012 12:45:34 GMT -5
this happened to an old roommate of mine. she wasn't FIRED exactly, but her contract was not renewed at the end of the school year. The thing is... it is a private institution and they go by their own rules. the person being employed there knows this and it is their responsibility to follow the "rules" however ludicris they may be. I also know someone who got kicked out of a private christian university for getting pregnant out of wed-lock. They can, they did and while I might think it is stupid... those were the rules and if the student didn't want to play by them then they should have chosen a different school.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Apr 17, 2012 15:41:15 GMT -5
How so? She may have violated a code of conduct, but I disagree her choice has impacted her ability to do her job.
I don't disagree that if you choose to work for a private institution and sign some sort of morality clause or code of ethics, you shouldn't cry foul if you violate that code and are fired. But there's a difference between breaking a code of conduct and being unable to function in your job. And I think some employers are crossing the line when it comes to trying to regulate what people do in their personal lives.
ETA: In regards to the surgeon and the cop, I don't know what rules surgeons have about drinking. My DH is a cop. They have rules about drinking and how many hours before their shift they can consume alcohol and if they are called out unexpectedly and have consumed alcohol they are to state the cannot report to work. In our state there are no legal recreational drugs that I know of.
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Clever Username
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Post by Clever Username on Apr 17, 2012 15:47:13 GMT -5
Realistically too, "morality clauses" usually hit most strongly at the most vulnerable people. Just read human history and see what the powerful have gotten away with, openly too. I can't quite imagine anyone in a more powerful position than a teacher of small children. Being a religious institution places moral character immediately in the lesson plan.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 17, 2012 15:47:19 GMT -5
I think Thyme was the one that said that Christian schools expect you to be a model of good Christian values. I can see where they felt she could no longer do her job appropriately. How are you supposed to teach "good Christian values" if you can't be bothered to abide by them?
Not saying that is right, but I am betting that is their view on the subject.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Apr 17, 2012 17:55:51 GMT -5
How so? She may have violated a code of conduct, but I disagree her choice has impacted her ability to do her job. Based on the educator requirements, all teachers are also expected to be ministers at that particular school. That means they are to be an example of the church doctrine that is put forth. A key component is abstinence until wed. Flouting that particular doctrine impacts her ability to function appropriately in her job. For what it's worth, young women who attended that school and became pregnant outside of wedlock have been expelled. Other teachers have also been dismissed for not following the morals clause. This is not a new thing for Christian-based schools in the area. Parents who are paying for their children to attend these schools expect the administration to be very active in applying the rules that have been set forth. Otherwise, it is fairly easy to pull their child out of the school and send them elsewhere. In the Rockwall area, I know of at least three other Christian schools. There are probably more.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 17, 2012 18:40:00 GMT -5
Are you sayingthat you actual have specific knowledge of this school, instead of making a blanket statement that they must turn a blind eye to all other offenses because this is the first you've heard of it. Outrageous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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