Could a Giraffe Have Evolved?

[jonbel]

I wouldn't have charged him Jack, if he annoyed me he would have got a piece of my mind.....free, gratis and for nothing! ;D I'm not sure that he's the one I'm thinking of though.............it was probably Eggy

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Hey SUG, I think my prescription is fine(near sighted as well), it was just one of those days when your tied and can't focus on what you're reading...

Firstly, you KNOW that its a contentious topic,ie, do we have free will or not, and it can be argued very well both ways;also, would someone who wished to be 'permeated by God, welcome free will,as its a placewhere god wouldnt be,by definition,or it'd be 'Gods will'.

It can be argued I'm sure, however, life is all about the choices we make day to day. God has the power to influence energy I'm sure, what we do know is that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. It's your choice to believe or go it alone...

So........'loving JC:
lots of kinds of love,and all of them about knowing the focus of that love;JC lived and died a while back now, and though the story is poignant,and may be the focus of all sorts of strong feelings(it may have evloved that way,with its own momentum?),he isnt someone I am going to meet;neither would he have been the good-looking blond hippy who is depicted;he'd have been dark-skinned;short of stature, and coughed and spat like everyone else(none of which would have diminished him).

Exactly it's all about momentum in everything in life, but the momentum was STARTED, that is the key. ROME didn't want any of the momentum at the start, if was forced on them through the love of people. JC's look? you know as well as I do that people that have the "look" always get more attention...

He has probably been 'bigged up' over the years by people who couldnt see that he was for real, and felt that the lily needed gilding..........the Christian church is guilty mainly of gilding the lily to the point where it is unrecogniseable(even JC probably would laugh at it,were he to get a ride in the Tardis so he cud check it out)
My contention is that Christians, in 'trying too hard',are giving away the fact,that in their innermost feelings, that they would LIKE to believe,are not sure exactly WHAt to believe,anyway,and actually DONT believe,or they wouldnt spend so much time on upholding things which even JC wouldnt give the time of day to...................(just a theory of mine, that,BTW).

I doubt he has been "bigged" up. Rome wanted to erase him off the start, he was such a BIG personality that they couldn't keep the movement down when all it was, was the slave religion of Judea. As far as Catholicism.. Well, that's where your rub lies right there...

As far as JC laughing, only because his plan worked so damn well. Again, all of the history that I have laid out is based on books outside the bible, aside from a few exodus quotes in the god blessed America thread that I have pulled into actually history that we know is real; it's all based on archeology and the history that science has put together. Did you go through it all?

You see, I see it as people who don't believe without seeing 100% proof are the ones showing their true feelings. You guys are the ones who want to believe so badly, but you don't want to follow religion, and you all seem to see faith as religion. I have faith in history and science, history and science shows that we should all thank JC!

Your spirit and soul have nothing to do with religion, it's up to YOU to choose to be a good person, going to church doesn't make you a good person. This ties into what you and Jack are talking about with dads... You have to choice to be a better men and fathers than your own.

For me, I am all for JC, but think he has been misrepresented by generations of pious,self-seeking people,who have created a myth which doesn't do him justice(he was an ordinary person, which is miracle enough for anyone,and I'm sure he knew that, and that was what he was saying).

Ordinary? Not a chance. Pious self seekers using his word, you bet, something he KNEW would happen. Again, go to the history(facts) I have laid out. The miracle is that a young Jewish rabbi with an amazing sense of business was able to do what he did...

Actually, Id LOVE to have a heavenly father to make the passage easy(meaningful,even),but the deal seems to be that unless I take it on trust,with no opportunity to try before I buy, that the offers not open...............youd not buy a car on that basis,Im sure..............Also..............to say that the above isnt so, because your bad times would be worse if not for god, isnt much of an argument.(the footsteps in the sand story?)

I'm not saying it isn't so, your missing that's what forgiveness is all about eggy. It's never to late to be a good person, which I already think you are anyway... You don't have to live in denial forever, the light is always there my friend. I don't read scripture, or go to Church, but I understand what it means to thank the messiah..

Maybe the aforementioned unfortunate souls were lacking in faith,which was the cause of their problems, but you know how anyone with a bit of backbone responds when told 'do this, or I'll give you a hard time', dont you................the answer is "so shoot me,and dont trip over the mat on your way out"!

Like I said.I'd LOVE it if christianity(or any religion) were so.I'd be there like a shot.the promise sounds great, but unlessl I get more than a promise out of an old book,or referred to various texts (people who run out of ideas,often say 'read this' or read that',as they cant state their case well enough on their own) .

PPS............none of us are 'lost causes', not even me.we are all a 'work in progress', so I hope ur liking the chat as much as I am..........
all the best.................eggy

I already touched on this above, but further again, choices. People who are mean to their kids are TERRIBLE people, and have made terrible choices in their lives so they think that by hurting their kids it makes them bigger, or feel better. We know this isn't the case... I can't speak as to the promises of religion, all I know is that life is HARD, and I want to do whatever I can while I'm hear to try and make it better for me and the ones around me.. That is why is believe so strongly in people looking after their money. We were ALL slaves at one point and thanks to the Messiah we have a little bit, so make sure you are VERY careful with that little bit..

Also, I really enjoy our conversations eggy and others, no worries there,

Later. AHB

[weltschmerz]

I'm not saying it isn't so, your missing that's what forgiveness is all about eggy. It's never to late to be a good person, which I already think you are anyway... You don't have to live in denial forever, the light is always there my friend. I don't read scripture, or go to Church, but I understand what it means to thank the messiah..
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It's entirely possible to be a good person without belief in the supernatural.

[jackthelad]

Jun 19, 2012 11:07:37 GMT -5 jonbel said:

I wouldn't have charged him Jack, if he annoyed me he would have got a piece of my mind.....free, gratis and for nothing! ;D I'm not sure that he's the one I'm thinking of though.............it was probably Eggy

That's the trouble with getting old, you begin to forget things. My oldest when he comes to visit, he will say, Dad, do you remember that money i lent you. I tell him, i am old, not stupid, still every time he comes he tries it. My mother lived to be 99 years old, and her mind was still as clear as a bell. Never forgot anything, i hope i am following her, I always call Mrs Jack dear, i can't for the life of me remember her maiden name, so probably not.

[jackthelad]

Jun 19, 2012 11:50:42 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I'm not saying it isn't so, your missing that's what forgiveness is all about eggy. It's never to late to be a good person, which I already think you are anyway... You don't have to live in denial forever, the light is always there my friend. I don't read scripture, or go to Church, but I understand what it means to thank the messiah..
-----------------
It's entirely possible to be a good person without belief in the supernatural.

There as been an hell of a lot of bad people who were supposed to be Christians. Being religious does not necessarily mean you are a good person, on the contrary, the members of the Spanish Inquisition couldn't be called good people.

[jonbel]

You only have to think of the wars which have been started in the name of religion, and neither time nor experience have taught us anything because it's still happening, even now.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Jun 19, 2012 12:00:12 GMT -5 jackthelad said:

Jun 19, 2012 11:50:42 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I'm not saying it isn't so, your missing that's what forgiveness is all about eggy. It's never to late to be a good person, which I already think you are anyway... You don't have to live in denial forever, the light is always there my friend. I don't read scripture, or go to Church, but I understand what it means to thank the messiah..
-----------------
It's entirely possible to be a good person without belief in the supernatural.

There as been an hell of a lot of bad people who were supposed to be Christians. Being religious does not necessarily mean you are a good person, on the contrary, the members of the Spanish Inquisition couldn't be called good people.

Jack I literally said this in my post above...

Your spirit and soul have nothing to do with religion, it's up to YOU to choose to be a good person, going to church doesn't make you a good person. This ties into what you and Jack are talking about with dads... You have to choice to be a better men and fathers than your own.

The Spanish Inquisition? How about close to 2000 yrs of "acceptance", using, backstabbing, crucifixions and genocide? Dude JC WAS Jewish.. Again, it's all in the books..

[egginbonce]

Jun 19, 2012 11:50:42 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

I'm not saying it isn't so, your missing that's what forgiveness is all about eggy. It's never to late to be a good person, which I already think you are anyway... You don't have to live in denial forever, the light is always there my friend. I don't read scripture, or go to Church, but I understand what it means to thank the messiah..
-----------------
It's entirely possible to be a good person without belief in the supernatural.

Hi weltz.ill answer you first,as theres less than ham put in his post(which I will get round to)............I didnt mention forgiveness, tho its worth discussing.................firstly, we take it as meaning forgiving OTHERS, when thats easy.its forgiving onesself thats tricky(the distinctionis never made,and that may be because its the same thing(?)................)
anyway, wot would i be wanting to have forgivenwess in my life for?

I never said i was in denial;just that I m not sure about religion as being a sensible course of action........
funny, innit?.its nice if someone sees me as 'good' ,but what does it mean?,and why do I like it?................sorry weltz.more questions than answers from me today......................

[egginbonce]

baak for your post a bit later, ham(you dont often find ME needin to take a breath, do you?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

firstly, we take it as meaning forgiving OTHERS, when thats easy.its forgiving onesself thats tricky(the distinctionis never made,and that may be because its the same thing(?)

There you go eggy, nobody is perfect and that's how we have evolved.. There is a reason for that.. It's not unlike, he who is without sin shall cast the first stone..

[egginbonce]

I say that ,having 'been made in gods image', that its not for us to question our perfection, and that, despite our(false) humility on the matter, that in real(gods?) terms, we ARE perfect(unless there are some parts of the creation that he has no control over?)
gonna read your long post now,BTW

[egginbonce]

It can be argued I'm sure, however, life is all about the choices we make day to day. God has the power to influence energy I'm sure, what we do know is that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. It's your choice to believe or go it alone...

Newtons 3rd law is one which,(if you are right),only holds true by gods will;what I meanhere(playing devils advocate),id that either newton was right, or that god has(as u say), the power to influence(create,maintain;destroy)energy,and that god trumps Newton,and makes the laws of physics dependent on him(is 'him' the right word?).

more tocome in a min..............

[egginbonce]

I doubt he has been "bigged" up.

OK......................story time:


There was this chap who was washed up on a deserted(not 'desert) island,along with a cow, which had been kept on board ship for the milk(!).
HE found that the islanders hadnr ever seen a cow,and had lived for generations on fish and coconuts.When they realised that the cow provided milk(yuk...),and cheese,and etc etc(eggs? ,their lives were transformed,and he was held in great esteem, as was the cow,which eventually died(as things do.....).
This disaster was coped with by having regular meetings at which the cow was discussed,and a statue built to comemmorate the cow;in fact,as years passed, bigger and better statues were built,and the decorations more elaborate,until 'the cow' became the c entral tenet of their existence(tho none of them had seen a cow.......)
Anyway, as the tale goes...................anothe r chap with a cow was washed up there,and on being quizzed by the villagers about the weird animal he had with him,he said it was a cow,and was accused of irreverence,blasphemy,and promptly marched off to his death.
On the way to this event, he noticed a HUGE statue of a beast he had never seen;it was 20 feet tall,had dozens of legs, 3 heads,and was covered with diamonds.when he asked about it, he was told 'THATS a cow!'
So.....they killed him(impaled on a 10 foot cows horn,BTW),and killed the strange creature he'd brought with him(someone said he'd added to his blasphemy by calling it a cow),and then they all went fishing.....................

[egginbonce]

all I know is that life is HARD

Compared with what?

you mentioned money....................dunno about that stuff;when I was seriously lacking the stuff, I didnt realise it, and had a good time;when I found I had more,I spent more time messing with it, so as not to lose any more than I could help,but still had a good time,and i have concluded that I have a nice time whether Im broke or not ..

Them that's got shall get
Them that's not shall lose
So the Bible said and it still is news
Mama may have, Papa may have
But God bless the child that's got his own
That's got his own.............................(Billie Holliday)

[jonbel]

I get your drift Eggy, but...........................

One week to go

[egginbonce]

Jun 19, 2012 12:18:04 GMT -5 jonbel said:

You only have to think of the wars which have been started in the name of religion, and neither time nor experience have taught us anything because it's still happening, even now.

Yes.(an more devils advocate here ..............a shame to blame religion,when its just humans fighting over territory and money and oil,using religion to make the fight sound honourable.(If I wanted to dress up something as honourable, tho, Id not choose religion;using religion makes it worse than just saying what its really about ....)

[egginbonce]

'There as been an hell of a lot of bad people who were supposed to be Christians. Being religious does not necessarily mean you are a good person, on the contrary, the members of the Spanish Inquisition couldn't be called good people'

's true,Jack, but they did know how to enjoy themselves,so they were most of the way towards Heaven............................
PS did u read 'the pit and the pendulum',by Edgar Allen Poe?

[egginbonce]

Right then...............better go find something worthy of my talents(breakfast?).................sk sn............
god bless all here(ancient bog irish blessing!).........................eggy (ooh what a wit I am..... )

[Jaguar]

Namaste Eggy, have a wonderful day my friend.

[egginbonce]

namaste,Sugi.................never got breakfast,after all...............been fixing the holes in the bathroom wall that I made to get at the waterpipes.......................was hopin for some divine intervention,an the job do itself, but the best I got was that it DID do itself,but it had to involve me.........................
'work is love made visible'..............

[Deleted]

[egginbonce]

But......................H2H.if you were REALLY given the choice, you'd keep your sight, and hell with the love....................just think about it...............
I know ud prefer to have both, but just if...............................

[egginbonce]

Jun 20, 2012 2:30:11 GMT -5 jonbel said:

I get your drift Eggy, but...........................

One week to go

u mean we're really gonna do it??? ;D

[jackthelad]

Jun 20, 2012 2:35:50 GMT -5 egginbonce said:

'There as been an hell of a lot of bad people who were supposed to be Christians. Being religious does not necessarily mean you are a good person, on the contrary, the members of the Spanish Inquisition couldn't be called good people'

's true,Jack, but they did know how to enjoy themselves,so they were most of the way towards Heaven............................
PS did u read 'the pit and the pendulum',by Edgar Allen Poe?

No Eggy, never read The Pit and the Pendulum, never read any of Edgar Allen Poe books. Did consider reading War and Peace once, then decided to give a miss, it looked a bit too long. Same as some of the posts on here, i do have trouble making sense out of some of them. Tried to read a book written in German once, didn't make much sense out of that either. I suppose that was understandable considering i don't speak German, i think they called the book Mien Kampf.

[egginbonce]

MEin Kampf has been said to have some good points in it...................I forget the authors name.................

[Deleted]

But......................H2H.if you were REALLY given the choice, you'd keep your sight, and hell with the love....................just think about it...............
I know ud prefer to have both, but just if...............................

But.......... Egg. Without love (the God kind of love) one is spiritually and naturally blind. Love is supreme and covers a multitude of ALL..

[jonbel]

Jun 20, 2012 9:56:02 GMT -5 egginbonce said:

Jun 20, 2012 2:30:11 GMT -5 jonbel said:

I get your drift Eggy, but...........................

One week to go

u mean we're really gonna do it??? ;D

Yep Be there or be square

[jackthelad]

Jun 20, 2012 12:57:09 GMT -5 jonbel said:

Jun 20, 2012 9:56:02 GMT -5 egginbonce said:

u mean we're really gonna do it??? ;D

Yep Be there or be square

Sounds to me that Eggy is beginning to get cold feet about this meeting up, i don't think anyone would be bothered Eggy if you where a dwarf or a giant, ugly or good looking, bald or hairy like a baboon. My image of Eggy is that he is a short giant that is good looking in an ugly sort of way, with a bald head and hairy arms and legs. But then, my imagination has always had a habit of running away with it's self. On the other side of the coin Eggy, you might not know what the others look like, but you have built up a picture in your mind. You are expecting someone top notch, and you think you are inferior, Eggy, they will be just the same as you, and be waiting all agog. I suggest a red carnation in your button hole, just gives you that bit of class.

[egginbonce]

Jun 20, 2012 11:00:55 GMT -5 @heart2heart said:

But......................H2H.if you were REALLY given the choice, you'd keep your sight, and hell with the love....................just think about it...............
I know ud prefer to have both, but just if...............................

But.......... Egg. Without love (the God kind of love) one is spiritually and naturally blind. Love is supreme and covers a multitude of ALL..

About 30 years ago,I would have agreed with you, and I certainly understand what you mean, but lost in the thick of earning a living,etc, the p0int is not usually apparent, and ,like i said,if you were given the choice for real, youd choose to see with your eyes,not your heart,regardless of whether or not it was the wisest choice..........wadda u think?PS .... the idealism b4 u answer?.......

[egginbonce]

Id better get a haircut,too,Jack!