Could a Giraffe Have Evolved?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

This link is about the Giraffe and basically it concludes that a Giraffe is proof positive of intelligent design. That a giraffe could not possibly have evolved because of a variety of factors cited.

Now, most of you know I'm a Christian, the article is a Christian source, but I'm fine if we limit the discussion to "intelligent design".

www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cm/v14/n2/giraffes

[b2r]

;D

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Interesting point Paul. Could evolution and design go hand in hand?? It would seem so if you study the history of the Giraffe...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giraffe

The giraffe is one of only two living species of the family Giraffidae, the other being the okapi. The family was once much more extensive, with over 10 fossil genera described. Giraffids first arose 8 million years ago (mya) in south-central Europe during the Miocene epoch. The superfamily Giraffoidea, together with the family Antilocapridae (whose only extant species is the pronghorn), evolved from the extinct family Palaeomerycidae.[11] The earliest known giraffid was the deer-like Climacoceras.

While the progressive elongation of the neck and limbs can be found throughout the giraffid lineage, it became more pronounced in genera such as Giraffokeryx, Palaeotragus, Samotherium and Bohlinia.[11] Bohlinia entered China and northern India in response to climate change. From here, the genus Giraffa evolved and, around 7 mya, entered Africa.[11] Further climate changes caused the extinction of the Asian giraffes, while the African ones survived and radiated into several new species. G. camelopardalis arose around 1 mya in eastern Africa during the Pleistocene.[11] Some biologists suggest that the modern giraffe descended from G. jumae;[12] others find G. gracilis a more likely candidate.[11] It is believed that the main driver for the evolution of the giraffes were the changes from extensive forests to more open habitats, which began 8 mya.[11]

[MN-Investor]

I'm a Christian who always figured that the theory of Intelligent Design underestimated God. I firmly believe in evolution, but I figured that God knew exactly what He was doing when he set it all in motion with the Big Bang. He created all the science which produced all the plants and animals and stars and planets. I figure it's like an excellent pool player who, with the first shot, clears the table. That's evolution. Intelligent Design has the shooter constantly re-jiggering the balls along the way. God's all powerful. Why wouldn't He do it right with His first shot?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Makes sense to me. We are an extension of our consistently changing environment that was created by the all mighty!

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 28, 2012 19:42:47 GMT -5 MN-Investor said:

I'm a Christian who always figured that the theory of Intelligent Design underestimated God. I firmly believe in evolution, but I figured that God knew exactly what He was doing when he set it all in motion with the Big Bang. He created all the science which produced all the plants and animals and stars and planets. I figure it's like an excellent pool player who, with the first shot, clears the table. That's evolution. Intelligent Design has the shooter constantly re-jiggering the balls along the way. God's all powerful. Why wouldn't He do it right with His first shot?

I find that the "God set it all in motion" theory underestimates the God who knows the number of the hairs on our head, and if a sparrow falls, He knows.

Since I believe that the Holy Spirit literally caused a virgin to be with child, and that Jesus was literally born of a virgin, that Jesus literally taught 12 literal disciples, that he literally was arrested, literally suffered, was literally executed, and literally rose from the dead, and literally ascended into Heaven in a cloud, then why is it such a stretch to believe He literally created the Heavens and the Earth in six literal days? And since I believe Jesus is literally going to return to earth with power and great glory, that He (and we who believe) are literally going to reign, that there's a literal New Jerusalem, and a literal new Heavens and New Earth...I'll just stick to the original story.

[Deleted]

[egginbonce]

perhaps another word for god would be 'inevitability'?

[egginbonce]

if god is other than 'inevitable', then I have rather a lot of issues with him..........................

[jemima]

May 5, 2012 15:45:36 GMT -5 egginbonce said:

if god is other than 'inevitable', then I have rather a lot of issues with him..........................

Issues like what?

[Jaguar]

Namaste Eggy, my friend how R U doing ?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

then why is it such a stretch to believe He literally created the Heavens and the Earth in six literal days?

A thought on this PBP would be that the calendar and days were invent by people; and the Scientific evidence that proves God exits, also proves that things have evolved.

Evolution is perfection when you think about, it allows us to change.

Think about JC's life Paul. If Christianity hadn't evolved since he was here, his message wouldn't be anywhere. Dig the Avatar BTW.

[egginbonce]

Issues like what?
Hi Jemima.....

Any of the things that happen that rip any of us up................if that stuff isnt 'inevitable', its conscious will on 'gods' part(which is ridiculous),but if you go with the 'ridiculous', then for me, it would bring to mind 'an eye for an eye'....................

Actually, more issues might include anatomy............your sinuses which drain at the TOP!!! and wisdom teeth which are no use,and for which there is no room and despite the theory that our jaws have got smaller over time,there is plenty of skeletal evidence to the contrary.....eyes at the front so u cant see whos creeping up on u from behind(birds have both binocular vision AND 270 degree vision.....)no doubt there are other things.....
Most of all, the fact that we come with no clue as to our origins or destiny, leaving us to speculate to no good purpose,and invent answers which are at best a bit flimsy....
Gosh.................did I write all that tosh???..well u did ask...

[egginbonce]

calendar and days were invent by people

surely a 'day' is the time it takes for earth to turn.............a 'month' is a lunar cycle, and a year is similarly astronomically measured...........not invented by people;just measured by people...?

[egginbonce]

Sugi.namaste....here we are......................

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Yes, exactly we invented to measure of time, Calender and days, then said that GOD made the earth in 6... That's not what science says.

We also know that the Library of Alexander was destroyed by the Romans, that is why a lot of our past has been lost, people have tried to erase other people. Especially the Jewish folk, not going to happen though. ;D

[egginbonce]

I spose , seeing that a day is to do with 'earth time', then to say that all was made in so many days isnt really saying anything at all,as i expect a 'day' is different on, say, neptune, to earth, and this time thingy is, to be hackneyed , relative, which is to say that its meaningless...............looked at like that, then one may as well say that the earth(what about the rest of it,BTW?) was made in 6 days,or 26, or 193, or whatever...................

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

i expect a 'day' is different on, say, neptune, to earth, and this time thingy is, to be hackneyed , relative, which is to say that its meaningless...

Yes the days are all different but it's not mealiness, it's actually pretty amazing when you think about the fact that everything is connected in a weird way.

[Deleted]

Each animal and species was created "after its own kind". I do not believe in evolution and do not believe a rock became a bird became a cat became a dog became a zebra. I believe that we were created in a single act and that is our starting point. Birds were created and still are birds. Dogs are still dogs. Robins are still robins. Humans are still humans. Evolution becomes a catchall phrase to "explain" anything and everything which it does not.

[egginbonce]

May 7, 2012 3:34:09 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Each animal and species was created "after its own kind". I do not believe in evolution and do not believe a rock became a bird became a cat became a dog became a zebra. I believe that we were created in a single act and that is our starting point. Birds were created and still are birds. Dogs are still dogs. Robins are still robins. Humans are still humans. Evolution becomes a catchall phrase to "explain" anything and everything which it does not.

Whatever any of us 'believe', it is what it is................'believing'could be a bit king canuteish,maybe just feeling the need to 'believe' anything, is a bit of a cheek, when things clearly do what they do without my input ..............?

[egginbonce]

May 6, 2012 23:58:14 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

i expect a 'day' is different on, say, neptune, to earth, and this time thingy is, to be hackneyed , relative, which is to say that its meaningless...

Yes the days are all different but it's not mealiness, it's actually pretty amazing when you think about the fact that everything is connected in a weird way.

Its TIME thats meaningless............unless its compared to a chosen quantity,like the distance of the earths orbit;just as speed is meaningless without a reference point to measure it by,and even then its measurement is arbitrary, as is the reference point you choose.............

[egginbonce]

but I could be wrong...............(I always could be wrong........................),and even if im right, it makes no difference to the 'way things are'(to quote an indian in 'little big man')

[Deleted]

May 7, 2012 6:17:27 GMT -5 egginbonce said:

May 7, 2012 3:34:09 GMT -5 @shooby said:

Each animal and species was created "after its own kind". I do not believe in evolution and do not believe a rock became a bird became a cat became a dog became a zebra. I believe that we were created in a single act and that is our starting point. Birds were created and still are birds. Dogs are still dogs. Robins are still robins. Humans are still humans. Evolution becomes a catchall phrase to "explain" anything and everything which it does not.

Whatever any of us 'believe', it is what it is................'believing'could be a bit king canuteish,maybe just feeling the need to 'believe' anything, is a bit of a cheek, when things clearly do what they do without my input ..............?

It really comes down to one thing. Either Nothing Created Everything. Or, an Intelligent Designer created everything. Since Nothing can't create, that really only leaves the other alternative.

[egginbonce]

well, shooby- those are, I think, only YOUR options,and not theONLY options;its a bit like that thing thats sometimes said in films-'either youre with us or against us'...............obviously those 2 things arent the only choices;just the only ones stated.
I could list LOADS of options.some daft; some not so;eg..'it was all made up by a big banana'............or.....it was made by a 'designer' which had no other ability but to design,and that due to the fact that the result was a foregone conclusion...............'42' wasnt a bad way to describe it,either................

[egginbonce]

PS................if you can get ANYTHING 'down to one thing', you have my undying admiration................................

[Deleted]

Well, I humbly accept your adoration egg! ;D

[egginbonce]

admiration, it was, shooby;for adoration, you have to get REALLY fuzzy! ;D

[Deleted]

LOL! Sorry, egg if i was a bit scrambled.

[egginbonce]

you an me both................

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Its TIME thats meaningless............unless its compared to a chosen quantity,like the distance of the earths orbit;just as speed is meaningless without a reference point to measure it by,and even then its measurement is arbitrary, as is the reference point you choose.............

Egg, time ISN’T meaningless you just said it’s a measure of distance... Sheesh. Also, instead of trying to marginalize my point, why not ask what I mean if you don’t understand?

We all breathe the same air, and need the same things to survive. We are all under the same sky that is connected to space. Space is then connected to everything else, ECT, ECT... If I go to my car I can drive to my friend’s house in Florida, we can hope on a plane and fly to London, then to Australia. Then WHEN space travel happens we could board a ship and go into the universe. It’s all connected, and the distance we traveled can be measured in time.

Also, Egg, anything down to one? Okay. How about every single living being that is CURRENTLY on this planet started out as one? ;D

Also, The Chicken and the EGG problem, which ONE came first? IDK, but I know ONE did… ;D