If an American soldier dies overseas

[Befferz]

My view is that this is too incendiary of a topic for EE.

[blackcard]

They all have my wishes and blessings for a safe return. War is a terrible thing.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I pretty much agree with Horatio, and did while I was wearing the uniform too. Not to say that all US soldiers who died overseas weren't fighting for our freedoms at the time. The Pacific Theater in WWII comes to mind as an easy example. If we hadn't island hopped our way across the pacific the Japanese would have kept attacking us in Hawaii.

Any of the peace keeping actions we've been involved in over the last thirty years don't seem to have a damn thing to do with protecting against an imminent threat to American soil though.

[TheOtherMe]

All we are saying is give peace a chance.



I respect the soldiers, but do not support the current wars.

[tallguy]

I very much respect those who serve our country, and especially those who fight and die. I only wish they had leaders who were worthy of their sacrifice.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

Operation New Dawn (according to the Department of Defense). . . "The transition to Operation New Dawn represents the U.S. commitment to the government and people of Iraq as a sovereign, stable country that will be an enduring strategic partner with the United States."

From this desk, seven and a half years ago, President Bush announced the beginning of military operations in Iraq. Much has changed since that night. A war to disarm a state became a fight against an insurgency. Terrorism and sectarian warfare threatened to tear Iraq apart. Thousands of Americans gave their lives; tens of thousands have been wounded.... The United States has paid a huge price to put the future of Iraq in the hands of its people. We have sent our young men and women to make enormous sacrifices in Iraq, and spent vast resources abroad at a time of tight budgets at home. We have persevered because of a belief we share with the Iraqi people—a belief that out of the ashes of war, a new beginning could be born in this cradle of civilization. Through this remarkable chapter in the history of the United States and Iraq, we have met our responsibility. Now, it is time to turn the page.

— President Obama's Address on Iraq, August 31, 2010

Full Text of his speech on Iraq : www.nytimes.com/2010/09/01/world/01obama-text.html?pagewanted=1&ref=world

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

Aug 18, 2011 18:36:43 GMT -5 @horatiolegrand said:

Again, I mean nothing against soldiers. I wish they were at home with their loved ones.

What is your view?

I wish they were at home with their loved ones, too.

[Bluerobin]

Both of the present wars are as unjust or worse than Vietnam! We have no business overseas.
Crabby always thought that the wars should be fought by only 2 people - the leaders of each country. Then we would not have so many wars!

[Waffle]

Aug 19, 2011 6:26:43 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

Both of the present wars are as unjust or worse than Vietnam! We have no business overseas.
Crabby always thought that the wars should be fought by only 2 people - the leaders of each country. Then we would not have so many wars!

Excellent idea! I like the way Crabby thinks.

[gambler]

being retired from the military most of the time over seas, I have two thoughts on the matter. the first being I would rather fight over seas than fight on us soil war is dirty and best fought where it dose not matter in third world countries.
war being inevitable most other races do not value human life as we do it is best to show that we will fight and die once again better demonstrated in their country.
I also believe that when the decision is made to fight we should do so all out regardless of collateral damage it send a much more pointed message

[Bluerobin]

gambler, you bought the big lie! It is people like you the govt wants in their armies. We have no business fighting over seas, unless we are actually attacked and defending our country (eg. Japan). That was not the case in the 3 wars I mentioned.
We have to stop wasting our young folks and tax dollars fighting someone else's wars.

[zibazinski]

I think the countries we are in and protecting should bear the financial cost of these wars. Remember, we have no draft so if no one was willing to fight, there's be no warriors. Hence, no wars.

[Bluerobin]

Aug 19, 2011 9:03:21 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I think the countries we are in and protecting should bear the financial cost of these wars. Remember, we have no draft so if no one was willing to fight, there's be no warriors. Hence, no wars.

Yep! We should charge them!

[midjd]

war is dirty and best fought where it dose not matter in third world countries.

most other races do not value human life as we do

Really? You really think that?

[zibazinski]

Actually, I do. Some of these cultures are taught that to die in the name of some mythical person is to die an honorable death. If you are brainwashed from Day One, you will feel that to die is the RIGHT thing to do, therefore you have no respect for your own life, so how could you possible care for another human being's? It's like if you don't love yourself, how can you love another person?

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2011 7:58:37 GMT -5 gambler said:

being retired from the military most of the time over seas, I have two thoughts on the matter. the first being I would rather fight over seas than fight on us soil war is dirty and best fought where it dose not matter in third world countries.
war being inevitable most other races do not value human life as we do it is best to show that we will fight and die once again better demonstrated in their country.
I also believe that when the decision is made to fight we should do so all out regardless of collateral damage it send a much more pointed message

I'm reading your first paragraph to mean "best fought where it does not matter to us" because it sure as heck matters to the people who are living in a war zone. But I agree with the premise of taking the fight to a place where our citizens are generally out of harm's way.

But I think your second paragraph is inaccurate on several levels. But mostly, I am not sure what "other races" you are referring to. There isn't a race on the planet that isn't represented by a guy currently fighting with an American flag on his sleeve.

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2011 9:48:34 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Actually, I do. Some of these cultures are taught that to die in the name of some mythical person is to die an honorable death.

Um, I think everyone believes this. It is just a question of which mythical person you consider "worth it" - G-d, Jesus, Allah, Abraham, Uncle Sam, Lady Liberty...

[midjd]

There isn't a race on the planet that isn't represented by a guy currently fighting with an American flag on his sleeve.

I do acknowledge that there are some fundamentalist cultures (NOT "races") who instruct that to die defending God, Allah, whomever is to die an honorable death. I believe that such cultures exist in the US as well.

I don't know that the commanders ordering missions in which countless civilian casualties are to be expected can be referred to as "valuing human life", either. Unless by "human life" we mean "American lives"?

And I know it is a sadly common viewpoint that other cultures/races don't feel pain the way we do. If a US woman loses her child and husband in a bombing, it is a tragedy. If an Afghani woman (for instance) loses her child and husband in a bombing, well, she'll get over it. IMO it is a way to deflect blame for causing pain to another - like the way some people claim that animals don't feel pain the way we do, and use this as an excuse to treat animals badly.

[wodehouse]

My wife's family is from the Philippines. I am so ashamed when I read the history of the USA's involvement in the Philippines after the Spanish-American war. I don't even discuss it with her family.

I'd call the Philippines third-world. I think those people pretty much care about their families' lives and human life.

[zibazinski]

Most of us aren't brainwashed to breed future killers or sacrificial lambs. Do you think I wanted DD to be a Marine, for pete's sake? I didn't raise her to kill other people and, yet, she is going to do it. The fact that she will drop bombs as opposed to shooting others does not make it any better for me. A warrior is a warrior. I keep my thoughts and feelings to myself because she wants to do this and I want what she wants but I hope and pray every day the military decides she is better suited to a job that does not involve killing other people.

[Bluerobin]

zib, someone brain washed her. She bought the big lie too.

[midjd]

It sometimes feels like a fine line to walk between respecting and supporting the members of our military while disagreeing with war in general. I would never want to be seen as "anti-soldier" because I do have tremendous appreciation for our servicemen and women. I just don't like the idea that an American soldier killing a foreign civilian is OK, while a foreign civilian killing an American soldier is terrorism. We are all human beings.

And I'm 100% on board with Crabby's idea. Cage match! Does that mean our next president can be The Rock?

[Bluerobin]

Mid, why not? I would prefer an ex seal or Chuck Norris though. I want our guy to win if he fights.

[wodehouse]

Some may object to the concept of the "big lie". But there must be something to it.

I was simply astonished in the years after 9/11 at the good ol' boy mentality towards the Iraq war. People seemed to view this as a college football rivalry with the same sort of macho talk and bluster as is used when talking about their Alabama-Auburn teams, etc. It was virtually impossible to have any sort of adult discussion about it. All this bluster when lives of people were at stake. And many young people bought the lie and ended up becoming cannon fodder.

[Bluerobin]

wode, My big lie is "defending" our country. We would be better off sending hit teams to attack the leaders of the terrorists. Why waste thousands of lives? Small surgical strikes are more efficient.

[whiskmav]

I think the video for "When Two Tribes Go To War" is very appropriate. Perhaps having all of the children of the President, Senators and Representatives on the front lines would change some people's minds. Although, I'd still rather not have any wars on this country's soil.

[whiskmav]

Aug 19, 2011 11:02:43 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

wode, My big lie is "defending" our country. We would be better off sending hit teams to attack the leaders of the terrorists. Why waste thousands of lives? Small surgical strikes are more efficient.

The CIA was doing a wonderful job in Vietnam until Johnson decided he wanted to televise a war.

[gambler]

I stand corrected earlier I use the word race and should have used culture. I apologize to any one I might have offended out side of that my statement stands. Blue we have tried surgical strike the do not work well as the peons (trouble coming again for this word) get so worked up that a small strike will not work I say go in force over kill is better than no kill. in response to the question do i believe what i said yes i do emphatically.

[showtime]

War is terrible...no doubt about that.

But imagine the lives and freedom's we are saving now?
I'm sure the thousands of lives we lost (along with the millions of lives it affected) in 9/11 wishes we acted sooner and gone overseas to get Bin Laden. What about those people's lives and freedom?

Did we need to invade Europe on Dday with 160,000+ troops knowing that thousands would die? Probably not. Did we need to send troops on a suicide mission to bomb Tokyo?
It's not necessarily about defense...but I do believe that there's a bigger picture in mind.

My 2 cents

Showtime

[Sammy]

Unfortunately we are often compelled to get involved in foreign wars when the bad guys could eventually create problems for us. We stayed out of the WWII European theater until it was clear what the third Reich was up to.