If an American soldier dies overseas

[Bluerobin]

gambler, worked fine with Osama.
We have no business fighting overseas, unless some stupid country sends rockets our way. Then blow them off the map and nuke all their key cities.
In WWII, we should have let Europe learn to speak German! Another war where we did not belong - at least not until the Japanese attacked.

[Genuine GA Peach]

I don't agree with most of the wars we've been involved in, but that really doesn't matter when I stand at the Vietnam wall. I would love to see all of the troops come home NOW. And it really bugs me that most of the people who decide to put our guys and gals in harm's way would never do it themselves.

I watched Gene Simmons and Shannon Tweed visit a base, see off some of the troops, and talk to the spouses of the soldiers. I think I cried thru the entire show. It also breaks my heart to see the soldiers at the airport (and since Hartsfield is the local airport, I see LOTS of them).

I have a friend whose DH is in the reserves, and their oldest son is active military. Not too long ago, both were overseas (one in Iraq and one in Afghanistan). Glad to say that both made it home safe. Her DH will be deploying again soon.

[gambler]

yes we got obsama but the organization still survives and is active.

[Sum Dum Gai]

yes we got obsama but the organization still survives and is active.

So what?

Don't forget the same organization tried to blow up the World Trade Center once before with the van bomb under the building. It was a super inept plot and didn't amount to much. We pretty much ignored it. They had free reign to plan their next attack and a secure base of operations in Afghanistan. It took them over a decade to come up with hijacking some planes and crashing them into the building. A plot that we almost got wise to twice, if only certain people at the FBI had followed up on leads they stumbled across. We could have also accidentally foiled the whole thing if immigrations did a better job of rounding up those who overstay a visa and shipping their butts home.

That's the big scary organization that threatens the entire world? A decade of freedom to plan, national support, and the best they can manage is... "uh.. well we could steal some planes and crash them..." Give me a break. These guys are a joke. The only reason they're able to hurt us so badly now is because we were dumb enough to put a ton of boots on the ground in their turf where it's easy to take pot shots at us.

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2011 15:06:36 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

gambler, worked fine with Osama.
We have no business fighting overseas, unless some stupid country sends rockets our way. Then blow them off the map and nuke all their key cities.
In WWII, we should have let Europe learn to speak German! Another war where we did not belong - at least not until the Japanese attacked.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.
-- Niemoller

I don't believe we have an obligation as Americans to infect the world with democracy or spread our values where they are not wanted. But I do believe we have an obligation as humans to intervene to stop a genocide.

[zibazinski]

Am I happy about her choice of career? NO, but she is the last person to be brainwashed. In fact, she is so strong minded, I didn't think she could handle the military lifestyle. It's what she wants and I have to support her.

[TheOtherMe]

Aug 19, 2011 6:26:43 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

Both of the present wars are as unjust or worse than Vietnam! We have no business overseas.
Crabby always thought that the wars should be fought by only 2 people - the leaders of each country. Then we would not have so many wars!

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

So ... my wonderful DH is brainwashed and bought some "Big Lie?"

[Genuine GA Peach]

no, Molly. I don't believe that for a second. My brother was involved in Desert Storm. He joined to get money for school, and the war started while he was enlisted. He did his job and (thank God) came home safe.

I pray your DH and all of our soldiers will be home for good very soon.

[Miss Tequila]

Aug 19, 2011 16:06:26 GMT -5 Ratchets said:

zib, someone brain washed her. She bought the big lie too.

Bluerobin - most troops would find that pretty demeaning. Contrary to your belief, they aren't running off to go start wars wherever they feel like it, they are deployed by our elected officials to carry out foriegn policy. Of course they want to do their job well, because it's their job...that's how they provide for their families. I don't see you calling out Ford workers for being "brainwashed" because they bought a Ford and the "big lie." It's not brainwashing when they are doing the job they are paid to do very well, and that job is decided by you...the voter. Just something to think about next time you slam somebody for doing the job you paid them to do...

[TD2K]

Blue we have tried surgical strike the do not work well as the peons (trouble coming again for this word) get so worked up that a small strike will not work I say go in force over kill is better than no kill.

I don't know, the predator strikes seem to be pretty effective. If they are stopped, I suspect it will be more of a poltical issue rather than a military issue. Or someone supplies the Talibans with small missles to take them out, sort of like the US stingers removed the Soviet helicopter as a major weapon in Afghanistan.

[Bluerobin]

Bluerobin - most troops would find that pretty demeaning. Contrary to your belief, they aren't running off to go start wars wherever they feel like it, they are deployed by our elected officials to carry out foriegn policy. Of course they want to do their job well, because it's their job...that's how they provide for their families. I don't see you calling out Ford workers for being "brainwashed" because they bought a Ford and the "big lie." It's not brainwashing when they are doing the job they are paid to do very well, and that job is decided by you...the voter. Just something to think about next time you slam somebody for doing the job you paid them to do...

Demeaned or not, they bought the lie. After all, they believe they are protecting our country! More like helping stupid corrupt politicians and the few business leaders that benefit.
Sorry, I don't get all warm and fuzzyover young kids wasting their lives overseas, fighting unjust wars so a few can benefit. We have no strategic interests overseas. Every troop should be pulled off foreign soil.
Patriotism is such a crock of shit!

ETA, the only wars fought for freedom were the Revolutionary War, and for some the Civil War. All others were fought on behalf of some other country.

[Bluerobin]

Actually, I support our troops. I just think they have been duped into fighting for OUR country. They are not fighting for our country.

[Deleted]

Of course they are fighting for our country. Our country asked them to go, and they said yes.

Fighting for our country's foreign policy interests is fighting for our country.

Disagreeing with our country's foreign policy interests is one of the truly great things about being an American. We totally get to do that. And there is certainly room to debate those interests in wars where we are not directly attacked on U.S. shores.

But I don't think our servicemen and women were duped. They chose this career because they agreed with our country's foreign policy decisions or they felt that the benefits of a military career outweighed and issues they may have had. But I don't think they are fools and I don't think they were brainwashed. They just hold views that are different than yours.

And that is okay - it is a volunteer military. You don't have to go. And if you don't think they should be there, you can tell your elected officials.

[Bluerobin]

Rick and crafty, I just hate to see our young wasted in a foreign land, fighting to benefit big business and greedy politicians. Yes, they were duped by the big lie - "you are defending our country". The resources spent overseas could be put to better use domestically - just look at our crumbling infrastructure.

[Deleted]

Aug 18, 2011 18:39:28 GMT -5 Befferz said:

My view is that this is too incendiary of a topic for EE.

Confirmed.

[zibazinski]

Just please don't insult those of us who have loved ones serving their country. I didn't raise a mindless idiot.

[Deleted]

blue, I am pretty liberal (really dang liberal compared to many on these boards) and I have my share of issues with the wars we are currently fighting. I just don't happen to share your view that our servicemen and women are stupid.

They made a choice that is different than mine. That is why I am sitting on my butt and ranting on the internet and they are overseas fighting. I think they are brave, I think they are risking their lives in service to our country, and I think they are smart enough to have chosen that path for themselves. I wish them all home safe.

[april47]

Gambler, I agree that the leaders of some of the countries we fight do not seem to value human life as we do but I can guarantee that the families of those killed mourn their loved ones and the innocent children that died in pain do not deserve such punishment. Frankly, I'm not so sure that our leaders value individual human life as much as we do either. Maybe the leaders of countries need to duke it out and leave the peons out of the bloodshed. But then I never did understand why humans still haven't learned the lessons of life and lived peacefully. We still act like animals in the jungle/caveman inspite of our so called superior brain.

[Bluerobin]

Rick, I see you bought the propaganda, so I suspect you are misinformed. No we will never agree.
Crafty, I am conservative to the point where I think we should be isolationists, but like the Swiss, prepared to fight and annihilate any enemy that attacks. I didn't say stupid, I said duped.
I respect the troops and the fact they are supporting their beliefs, however misguided those beliefs are, but I do not support their mission.

[Bluerobin]

Rick, more govt information? I would not consider that to be unaffected by propaganda. Consider the source of the information.
All troops out now. Cut the military budget by 70% is my mantra.

[Deleted]

dupe: (doop)
1. verb: To deceive an unwary person. Our government "duped" our soldiers.

2. noun: An easily deceived person. Our soldiers are "dupes."


Actually, blue, calling them stupid is exactly what you are doing.

[Bluerobin]

Rick, you upstarts need our guidance.
Crafty, your opinion. In my opinion, smart people can be duped also. I did not call our troops stupid, just duped.

[Deleted]

No, that definition still implies that our soldiers (servicemen and women takes too long to type - no disrespect intended towards the other military branches) were fooled.

One who is fooled is a fool.

The extension of that definition is that the dupe is a tool or pawn, horatio. I don't think that is any better.

[Bluerobin]

Rick, That's what all you kids say. As you stated before, we will never agree on the need. I am an isolationist and do not see the need to put troops overseas. If we do, the benefiting nation should pay all costs +.

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2011 9:03:48 GMT -5 @horatiolegrand said:

Aug 21, 2011 8:59:15 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

No, that definition still implies that our soldiers (servicemen and women takes too long to type - no disrespect intended towards the other military branches) were fooled.

One who is fooled is a fool. .

So a wise man is never fooled? And if he is, suddenly he is a fool. What a harsh way of viewing the world. With that kind of attitude a person could never admit to making a mistake, which seems foolish to me.

Not at all. I fancy myself a pretty smart cookie, but I have been duped by magic tricks and shady salesmen before. That makes me a fool with regards to magic (and the occasional piece of exercise equipment).

But saying that someone was a fool with regards to their life's work is a slightly bigger deal.

Stick with the term if you want, but do so knowing what it implies to those of us with family in the military.

[Bluerobin]

Crafty don't twist words. You may be fooled by a magic trick because you are uninformed, just as you may be duped by someone for the same reason.
I got into my life's work (collections) because I found out I liked it and I was good at it. How I started isn't really germaine at this point. If you military types enjoy the work, by all means keep at it. Just don't expect others to believe the same propaganda that got you into that line of work.

[Deleted]

No - I have no qualms whatsoever with anyone thinking our current military actions are the wrong choice for our country. (Again, that is one of the super-awesome things we get to do as Americans)

But I think rational, intelligent people can have different opinions on the issues of the day. I just don't like the implication that our troops were fooled into service. I think they weighed the available information and formed their own opinion. I can disagree with the choices that they made and I can disagree with the choices that our government has made.

But I don't believe that our soldiers signed on because they didn't know any better or bought into a lie. I believe they went in with their eyes open.

[Bluerobin]

Yep, do it for God and Country!

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2011 9:26:51 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

Crafty don't twist words. You may be fooled by a magic trick because you are uninformed, just as you may be duped by someone for the same reason.
I got into my life's work (collections) because I found out I liked it and I was good at it. How I started isn't really germaine at this point. If you military types enjoy the work, by all means keep at it. Just don't expect others to believe the same propaganda that got you into that line of work.

I'm not trying to twist words - I'm trying to tell you how your words come across. Your words come across as calling soldiers stupid. That may not be your intent or your belief, but that is how that comes across.

The First Amendment means you get to keep right on saying that our soldiers were duped.

But freedom of thought means that I get to believe that is a really douche-y thing to say.