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Jun 26, 2011 15:47:17 GMT -5
Post by debtheaven on Jun 26, 2011 15:47:17 GMT -5
ETA: The other consequence is that although there WERE many valid suggestions for Loop on that thread, because of the rest, the thread was removed, and unless Dark or Loop had saved it (which I doubt but of course I don't know), those hopefully helpful suggestions are all gone now.
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tallguy
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Jun 26, 2011 16:29:22 GMT -5
Post by tallguy on Jun 26, 2011 16:29:22 GMT -5
While i don't doubt a fair number of people reading and commenting do actually care about you and loop, the majority probably viewed the whole thing as a subject of ridicule and/or pity. Water cooler gossip. Is that what you want for yourselves? The whole board does it. Why is it OK for Dox to have thread after thread about her husband, her home life, etc. and everything is fine, but when Loop and I talk about ours it's a no no. <chunck removed> The double standard is disgusting. If Loop's thread wasn't appropriate for this board, then neither are any of the train wreck threads where we only have one spouse on here trashing the other behind their back. you are missing the point i am trying to make dark. the topic itself was fine. that fact that you disagreed about it was ok too. what WASN'T fine was the very personal, ugly, nasty fight! i really don't see what is so hard to understand about that. when it gets to the point where you're both cyber screaming expletives and saying things you know full well are meant to cause the other deep emotional pain, it's time to STOP. take it off the boards. and while i can't say i approve of "one spouse on here trashing the other behind their back" as you said, at least in that case the spouse isn't a member here and people are not feeling like they're forced to take sides. The other aspect of why the other "train wreck" threads are different is that in those cases (with only one side represented here) other posters who are sincerely trying to be helpful are able to at least maintain the illusion that they are helping the OP get to a point where they can then go back and have a rational discussion with their SO, either by providing a different perspective or by saying flat-out, "You're full of sh**." If both sides are represented, one finds it difficult to take sides if they care about both, and it is uncomfortable to watch. Dark, Some have suggested that this is all a put-on, for your own benefit. I don't believe so, but having read you both for a while I could maybe see it. Either way, however, it does not show you two in a good light. If you two have such resentment towards each other that it would blow up into what this apparently did, then TALK about it. To each other, not to everybody else. That can only be described as immature, and an attempt to be hurtful. And for the sake of your marriage (and your children) learn to fight properly. The fact that you have rarely fought with each other is only good if there is NOT a lot of resentment simmering under the surface. Conflict is normal. Learning to deal with it is important. If you have to see a counselor just to learn that, do it. I've always seen you both as bright, though immature. If you can allow the intelligence within you to overcome the immaturity, you can do it on your own. But one way or the other, do it. Personally, I don't really give a damn what others think. I'm on this earth to live my life the best way I can, and I pretty much let others do the same until it affects me as well. And there is too much going on in my life to let the concerns of nameless, faceless people on a message board intrude. It's none of my business. But many others here at least claim a certain level of friendship with you both, and it is unfair and inconsiderate of you to put them in the position of having to watch what should be private. And if there are certain people you respect and want to talk to, fine. But it shouldn't be public. The bottom line is, "Grow up!" Learn to discuss your problems and concerns together like rational, mature adults (assuming of course that this entire episode was real.) Or stop getting your jollies by toying with the feelings of those who claim to care about you (in case it was in fact trolling.) You are married. You have children. If you truly care about either of those things then be adults and prove it.
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MN-Investor
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Jun 26, 2011 16:48:34 GMT -5
Post by MN-Investor on Jun 26, 2011 16:48:34 GMT -5
Karma for you, tallguy!
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mmhmm
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Jun 26, 2011 17:11:08 GMT -5
Post by mmhmm on Jun 26, 2011 17:11:08 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more, tallguy. Very well said. I would add that many people do have a hard time discussing difficult matters face-to-face. That's why so many couples repress their feelings and end up having huge battles that could have been defused by a few small disagreements along the way. The internet has opened a gateway through which these people can communicate more easily; however, the best way to do it is by using IM, or (in the case of this board) PMs. That way, those who care about you, and those who really aren't involved aren't dragged into a very uncomfortable situation. It's more a matter of consideration for the feelings of others than anything else. As I said before, if there are those you trust and whose opinions you'd like to have, you might invite them to a group IM to discuss an issue. That way, the choice as to whether to participate is theirs. I hope that makes sense.
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taz157
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Jun 26, 2011 18:08:16 GMT -5
Post by taz157 on Jun 26, 2011 18:08:16 GMT -5
Well said tallguy, !
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Miss Tequila
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Jun 26, 2011 18:33:44 GMT -5
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 26, 2011 18:33:44 GMT -5
I never wear her down and get her to see my side. We argue for a while until the stress of arguing about it is too much for her, so I have to back down, because if I try to get my way when she's so vulnerable and depressed I'm obviously a douche. So I back down and Loop gets her way.And she doesn't come back and feel guilty and give in to what you wanted later? Then she's a stronger woman than I am, which we already knew. But it sounded like from her posts that you guys are following your dreams about the house and stuff. I would just be really careful about this thing with giving up time with the kids because you don't want her do end up feeling pushed into doing something she's going to resent you for later. But it's ok for Dark to feel resentment? I'm a working mom...it's NOT the end of the world for God's sake. If my husband refused to work because he wanted to be home with the kids (my kids are also in school full time) I would be chalk full of resentment so I can totally understand Dark's feelings. however, I don't agree that hashing out private issues is best done on a message board. It doesn't matter that I think this or you think that...it only matters what works for BOTH loop and dark....
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Miss Tequila
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Jun 26, 2011 18:36:11 GMT -5
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 26, 2011 18:36:11 GMT -5
JFC, I have to agree with tallguy...words i never thought I'd say
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Malarky
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Jun 26, 2011 18:42:33 GMT -5
Post by Malarky on Jun 26, 2011 18:42:33 GMT -5
;D JFC, I have to agree with tallguy...words i never thought I'd say LOL Amd karma to both of you when I regenerate.
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Miss Tequila
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Jun 26, 2011 18:46:45 GMT -5
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 26, 2011 18:46:45 GMT -5
;D JFC, I have to agree with tallguy...words i never thought I'd say LOL Amd karma to both of you when I regenerate. LOL! thanks malarky! And I had to give tg Karma, too...what is happening to me?
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qofcc
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Jun 26, 2011 19:15:28 GMT -5
Post by qofcc on Jun 26, 2011 19:15:28 GMT -5
Getting pushed into a job is not the end of the world. Why act like it is? Obviously the SAHM isn't working for at least ONE of the parties and even if the other wants to keep doing it, it's over and she knows it. If thats enough to push someone over the edge then that is a serious issue. Did I want to go to work? No, I wanted to be a SAHM, but life intervened. But no way would I run up SL's and then not work, period. That is just wrong.
But it's ok for Dark to feel resentment? I'm a working mom...it's NOT the end of the world for God's sake. If my husband refused to work because he wanted to be home with the kids (my kids are also in school full time) I would be chalk full of resentment so I can totally understand Dark's feelings
I don't think it's fair to run up student loans then refuse to work, but she agreed to start working when the kids went back to school at a job where she doesn't need daycare. If this was October and nothing had happened yet, then that's one thing, but it's June and they agreed that she should be home for the summer. I can also sympathize that she doesn't want to take a job she hates AND be away from her family. And it sounds like she was the one to compromise in where they lived. We don't know all of the details. And knowing their finances as they've posted, the job seems like it would help, but it's not an emergency. They can afford for her to stay home for a few more years if they want. But he doesn't want that anymore and that's his right and I don't think he's wrong in any way for feeling like that. I'm just trying to provide some perspective from someone who gave in on a lot of things that were hugely important to me and it destroyed my relationship.
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Miss Tequila
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Jun 27, 2011 6:21:44 GMT -5
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 27, 2011 6:21:44 GMT -5
I'm just trying to provide some perspective from someone who gave in on a lot of things that were hugely important to me and it destroyed my relationship. If expecting a spouse to work would destroy a relationship then I say the relationship wasn't very strong to begin with. Most everyone would prefer to sit home and do what they want to do all day long versus working, but that's not reality. I just find it funny that everyone thinks a woman has the "right" to just not work, even when the spouse wants her to work. If Loop came on here bitching that her husband refused to get a job everyone would be calling him a good-for nothing loaf (based on all of the threads I've seen)...I don't understand why the expectations are different for men and women.
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MN-Investor
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Jun 27, 2011 6:39:41 GMT -5
Post by MN-Investor on Jun 27, 2011 6:39:41 GMT -5
I just find it funny that everyone thinks a woman has the "right" to just not work, even when the spouse wants her to work. That is exactly why we shouldn't get in the middle of these discussions. It sounds like Dark and Loop had discussed the issue at some point and decided that, at this point in time, it made sense for Loop to stay home with the children. Let's stay out of that discussion. Nothing good can come from bringing it up again. Dark and Loop know what has been said to each other, we don't. (In other words, don't go poking at that hornet's nest with a stick!)
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Miss Tequila
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Jun 27, 2011 6:41:28 GMT -5
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 27, 2011 6:41:28 GMT -5
I just find it funny that everyone thinks a woman has the "right" to just not work, even when the spouse wants her to work. That is exactly why we shouldn't get in the middle of these discussions. It sounds like Dark and Loop had discussed the issue at some point and decided that, at this point in time, it made sense for Loop to stay home with the children. Let's stay out of that discussion. Nothing good can come from bringing it up again. Dark and Loop know what has been said to each other, we don't. (In other words, don't go poking at that hornet's nest with a stick!) What fun is that?
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SVT
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Jun 27, 2011 7:36:05 GMT -5
Post by SVT on Jun 27, 2011 7:36:05 GMT -5
A lot of posts for a thread in which the OP was deleted almost immediately.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Jun 27, 2011 7:58:58 GMT -5
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 27, 2011 7:58:58 GMT -5
However, some of the things said went a bit too far and while I didn't see the post from Loop about the depression and suicide, those types of thoughts should always be taken serious. At the same time, we generally only see one side of the story on these boards. We were able to see both peoples side of the story and I'm sure that many people on these boards, at one time or another, could relate to one or both of them in terms Loop not feeling appreciated because she doesn't bring in an income and Dark feeling the weight and pressure of providing for a family. Dark - I hope things are settling a bit and you've been able to talk more calmly with Loop and iron some things out.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Jun 27, 2011 7:59:54 GMT -5
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 27, 2011 7:59:54 GMT -5
Well, it's amazing as to what can trigger a big fight. DF's and mine has been lurking and this am it came out as well. We will see if he gets his act together, or not. Aw, Zib. I'm sorry.
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zibazinski
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Jun 27, 2011 8:06:00 GMT -5
Post by zibazinski on Jun 27, 2011 8:06:00 GMT -5
It was a good thing as he has until July 12th, his own time limit, to deal with it OR ELSE and he does not like the OR ELSE one little bit. I have been the good sport long enough.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Jun 27, 2011 8:22:10 GMT -5
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 27, 2011 8:22:10 GMT -5
It was a good thing as he has until July 12th, his own time limit, to deal with it OR ELSE and he does not like the OR ELSE one little bit. I have been the good sport long enough. Obviously I don't know the details but you were a better sport than I would have been during the house hunting thing a few months back. I hope it works out ok for you. ETA to correct tenses.
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resolution
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Jun 27, 2011 9:43:03 GMT -5
Post by resolution on Jun 27, 2011 9:43:03 GMT -5
my read was that yes - that decision was made, but that the agreed upon time period ended 2 years ago, when she got her degree.... My take on it was that they were living in an area with lots of jobs in her field when they agreed on her getting a job after her degree was done. Then they moved for DH's job to an area with no jobs in her field, which leaves her the choice of McDonald's or the local pole dancing place. We are all picking sides based on incomplete information and then interjecting our own personal experiences and points of view. Most likely we are all wrong and could be doing a lot of harm by aggravating the argument.
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zibazinski
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Jun 27, 2011 10:25:12 GMT -5
Post by zibazinski on Jun 27, 2011 10:25:12 GMT -5
That was a pita, for sure, so now we live where he wants to live in the house he wanted to live in. Not the hill to die on but this other issue IS and he knows it.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Jun 27, 2011 10:28:53 GMT -5
Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 27, 2011 10:28:53 GMT -5
DF and I had a nice fight this past weekend too, kind of a similar "pot boiled over" style just like Dark and Loop had. In honor of this thread, I said a few things that I'd sat on for a while. Good fun.
As has been said, I agree that there was a lot of money talk in the other thread. One had to weed out the personal insults and harsh barbs, but most of the issues discussed were par for the YM course. Work vs. SAH, SLs for an unused degree, ideas for side income... plus the usual "failure to communicate" in relationships. As such some very good advice was given to all involved, and both of them have action items.
Also as has been said: the second it devolves into raw emotional hate (like when one cursed the other out), its time for a time out.
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Colleenz
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Jun 27, 2011 10:31:19 GMT -5
Post by Colleenz on Jun 27, 2011 10:31:19 GMT -5
She has no field - she has a degree in English.
I disagree. Either Loop has manipulated Dark with the suicide comment or she NEEDS to see a mental health professional ASAP (not after her parents have left or whenever).
The harm in this situation is pretending this has all blown over and repressing the issue until the next big blow out (which will likely be even worse).
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Jun 27, 2011 10:35:04 GMT -5
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 27, 2011 10:35:04 GMT -5
I suggested counseling but if you don't think there is anything wrong with your marriage it's hard to convince someone to go.
Took me months to convince my husband to go and I finally had to say that either we get some help or we're probably going to end up in divorce court before he'd agree to go.
There is still a huge stigma for a lot of people when it comes marital counseling. It's like admitting you can't handle your own problems.
My husband also always thought counseling was the last step before you signed the papers, it's just what you did as a meaningless attempt to salvage the marriage.
Once we had some sessions my husband agreed it was well worth it because we fight like Dark and Loop, we really needed a third party to teach us how to fight healthy.
It's all well and good to tell someone they need to "fight healthy", but if you don't have any examples/experience to draw on it's very hard to figure out how to do it on your own. Having the counseler there helped because when we started to unravel she could pull us back to what we were actually discussing.
It does get worse because you keep going around in circles.
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zibazinski
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Jun 27, 2011 10:39:06 GMT -5
Post by zibazinski on Jun 27, 2011 10:39:06 GMT -5
A job working weekends at retail would give her some cash and feel like she is contributing to the loans she took out, give DH time with his kids, give her a break from them, and there is room for advancement. Yes, English is limiting NOW, wasn't always but we are talking NOW not then, and this would do good things for all concerned. Yes, the suicide mention is VERY disturbing, whatever the reason she said it for.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Jun 27, 2011 10:39:26 GMT -5
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 27, 2011 10:39:26 GMT -5
I wish we could do polls still. I wonder what percentage of the boards DID fight with their spouse/so yesterday/ over the weekend. DH and I didn't but we were really busy.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Jun 27, 2011 10:40:59 GMT -5
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 27, 2011 10:40:59 GMT -5
We did. It came to a head about my brother who just happened to call Saturday night. What were the odds?
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Deleted
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Jun 27, 2011 10:42:25 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2011 10:42:25 GMT -5
I wish we could do polls still. I wonder what percentage of the boards DID fight with their spouse/so yesterday/ over the weekend. DH and I didn't but we were really busy.
We did. Over taking the kids on vacation. How about that? I incorporated TWO threads into our fight....
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zibazinski
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Jun 27, 2011 10:43:31 GMT -5
Post by zibazinski on Jun 27, 2011 10:43:31 GMT -5
We did, too.
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stats45
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Jun 27, 2011 10:44:16 GMT -5
Post by stats45 on Jun 27, 2011 10:44:16 GMT -5
Just a guess here, but Dark and Loop seem to have a morbid, dramatic, and obscene sense of humor. I think it is funny, but some people might not.
That type of humor mixed with just talking to each other in a caustic way can produce that type of argument. It doesn't necessarily mean there is some sort of crisis. The bad part though is that both people can become so used to hearing hyperbole and obscene exaggeration from each other that they lose the ability to sense when something really is that serious.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Jun 27, 2011 10:48:03 GMT -5
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 27, 2011 10:48:03 GMT -5
I wish we could do polls still. I wonder what percentage of the boards DID fight with their spouse/so yesterday/ over the weekend. DH and I didn't but we were really busy. We did. Over taking the kids on vacation. How about that? I incorporated TWO threads into our fight.... It makes you super special! Or something.
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