Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 25, 2011 18:13:47 GMT -5
But the real question is, if a guy accused several women of sexual harassment because they were repeatedly discussing their periods would you side with him or think he was being overly sensitive?
Hoops has come across in this thread as sexist, in my opinion. However, that doesn't mean his entire point is moot. Some of what modern society considers sexual harassment these days does seem like women being overly sensitive at work, again in my opinion. I'm not saying all women are lying, that they have a victim mentality, or anything even remotely close to that. I am saying that no matter how crude you think me talking about my sex life at work is, it doesn't automatically mean I'm harassing you by doing so. It might meet the letter of the law, the way it's currently interpreted, but I don't think it meets the intent of the law. Depending on the conversation and context of course.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2011 18:14:30 GMT -5
"Not only do I THINK they're sexual harassment, they ARE sexual harassment. Being asked out repeatedly after you have said no is sexual harassment. Being forced to listen to explicit sexual discussion is sexual harassment. Being forced to listen to comments about your body is sexual harassment. " And that's why you've got a victim mentality. I should go, I've got some sexual harassment reporting to do. Someone today told me they liked my hair after I got it cut. I don't need comments about my body. Maybe this way they'll learn! ETA: For the record, I'm sure you've never compliment anyone on a haircut, noted how tan someone got over vacation, etc...rigth? You wouldn't dare sexually harass someone like that. Sigh, check with your HR, what Firebird posted is sexual harassment, mentioning someone's hair once is not. If he or she started rubbing your hair or mentioning your muscles or lower areas often then that would be sexual harassment.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 25, 2011 18:16:14 GMT -5
But the real question is, if a guy accused several women of sexual harassment because they were repeatedly discussing their periods would you side with him or think he was being overly sensitive?
I'd side with him. I'm quite sympathetic to feeling uncomfortable or harassed by such talk.
But it doesn't matter who I would side with from an emotional standpoint. Even if I thought that he was being "OVERSENSITIVE OMG" I would still take his claim seriously and (if I had authority over the women in question) tell them to knock it off unless they wanted to face disciplinary action. Why? Because they don't need to be talking about that, it's not related to their work, it's private and somewhat sexual in nature, and discussing of it is making someone uncomfortable.
THAT IS SEXUAL HARASSMENT. Whether hoops believes it is or not.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 25, 2011 18:18:49 GMT -5
I am saying that no matter how crude you think me talking about my sex life at work is, it doesn't automatically mean I'm harassing you by doing so. It might meet the letter of the law, the way it's currently interpreted, but I don't think it meets the intent of the law. Depending on the conversation and context of course.
Intent isn't magic, Dark.
You may not mean to make a woman feel uncomfortable with such talk, and that's fine. I will give you a pass on that. Most reasonable people would give you a pass on that.
What is NOT fine is CONTINUING to discuss your sex life around a woman who has explicitly told you that she is uncomfortable with such talk.
And creating an environment where women feel free to speak up and say when they feel uncomfortable over something like that is a good thing. It's not pandering to the victim mentality, it's not encouraging women to cry wolf. It's making the workplace safe for everyone, not just certain people who feel freer than others to say whatever they feel like saying.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2011 18:18:51 GMT -5
But the real question is, if a guy accused several women of sexual harassment because they were repeatedly discussing their periods would you side with him or think he was being overly sensitive?Hoops has come across in this thread as sexist, in my opinion. However, that doesn't mean his entire point is moot. Some of what modern society considers sexual harassment these days does seem like women being overly sensitive at work, again in my opinion. I'm not saying all women are lying, that they have a victim mentality, or anything even remotely close to that. I am saying that no matter how crude you think me talking about my sex life at work is, it doesn't automatically mean I'm harassing you by doing so. It might meet the letter of the law, the way it's currently interpreted, but I don't think it meets the intent of the law. Depending on the conversation and context of course. If he asked them to stop, or went to the boss and the boss told them to stop, I would side with him. No question, same as if they were making comments about his body, I would side with him. And both the letter and the spirit of the law, is that no one uses sexual behavior/talk to make another uncomfortable. So, no you should not be talking about sex at work, Dark. And, really, someone has to tell you that? How would you like it, if Loop was not able to leave somewhere and 2-6 men were talking about their sex lives? Ask her how she would feel?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2011 18:20:44 GMT -5
Btw, the two other times I had guys cross the line, I told them the line was about 5 feet back and they stopped. I never reported them nor did I find what they did wrong. They might cross the line once in a while but it is not malicious and they stop when called on it.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Apr 25, 2011 18:28:43 GMT -5
I am saying that no matter how crude you think me talking about my sex life at work is, it doesn't automatically mean I'm harassing you by doing so.
If you were talking about your own sex life to someone else in front of me I would not consider it harassment. If you were talking to me about your sex life and I discouraged the conversation and you wouldn't shut up, I might consider it harrassment. If you were talking about my sex life without being invited to comment, I would consider it harrassment, but I probably wouldn't report it unless it became a habit.
ETA: For the record, I'm sure you've never compliment anyone on a haircut, noted how tan someone got over vacation, etc...rigth? You wouldn't dare sexually harass someone like that.
Most people understand a sexual comment regarding a person's appearance vs. a non-sexual one. A good rule of thumb is if it would be inappropriate to say to or in front of Miss Manners or your grandmother or a nun, you probably shouldn't say it to a co-worker.
Ex. "You look nice today, what a pretty dress" is appropriate. "damn, that dress makes your boobs look great" is not appropriate.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 25, 2011 18:37:47 GMT -5
If you were talking about your own sex life to someone else in front of me I would not consider it harassment. If you were talking to me about your sex life and I discouraged the conversation and you wouldn't shut up, I might consider it harrassment. If you were talking about my sex life without being invited to comment, I would consider it harrassment, but I probably wouldn't report it unless it became a habit.
I feel the same way, almost verbatim. However, it's important to note that just because this is how I would react and how qofcc would react, that doesn't mean it's the ONLY legitimate way to react to behavior that qualifies as sexual harassment.
Another woman might think that it does cross the line into reportable harassment simply to hear a single uninvited comment about her sex life. And that is okay too. It doesn't mean that woman is more "sensitive" than we are, it means she's offended to a greater degree than we are by hearing something that she has every right to feel offended by hearing - something she should not have to hear at work, period.
Trying to qualify a person's emotional reaction to talk that is not work-related AND can reasonably be interpreted as inappropriate (and yes, it needs to be both for a valid discussion of this problem; I don't think anyone is claiming that no one should be allowed to discuss their recent vacation because it might offend someone - the potentially offensive/inappropriate component is key here) is a slippery slope. What usually winds up happening is that people realize that they are supposed to be okay with hearing certain kinds of talk, and even if they're offended they're not supposed to say anything - which, understandably, makes them a hell of a lot more hesitant to say anything. It raises the bar of what we are "allowed" to find unacceptable.
And that's not okay. Because if it's sexual talk and it's not acceptable to ANYONE, it has no place in the workplace. And guess what? Most, if not all, sexual discussion in the workplace is not acceptable to someone. Often it's not acceptable to many someones, but a lot of them don't feel free to say so.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 25, 2011 18:39:17 GMT -5
Whoa, calm down. It was a hypothetical example. I barely interact with people at work, except as necessary to do our jobs, period. I don't even like small talk about what they did over the weekend, how their spouse is doing, or anything really. I'm here to make money, not friends. However, if two women were talking about the great sex they had over the weekend and I could hear the conversation, I wouldn't consider them harassing me. I might find it completely vulgar and unacceptable in a work setting, but they aren't targeting me. They aren't trying to make me uncomfortable. They're having a stupid conversation probably with no thought whatsoever of the fact that I can even hear it, much less what I think about it. I don't consider that harassment.
Obviously, if I've told the women involved not to do that previously it changes things a bit, but I still wouldn't put it in the same ballpark as a boss telling a subordinate that she either gives him a blow job or looks for another job. The two aren't even close in my book, even though modern corporate culture would treat them about the same.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 25, 2011 18:47:47 GMT -5
Obviously, if I've told the women involved not to do that previously it changes things a bit, but I still wouldn't put it in the same ballpark as a boss telling a subordinate that she either gives him a blow job or looks for another job. The two aren't even close in my book, even though modern corporate culture would treat them about the same.
I don't think that they would be treated about the same. You'd most likely get a warning for the first one - the second one, you'd be fired on the spot in most places (if the claim could be proven, that is).
There are different degrees of sexual harassment. When I reported my coworker for what he did to me, I didn't even use that phrase. I didn't want him disciplined, and I certainly wasn't trying to get him fired. I didn't even want him to know that I had brought it up. I just wanted the incident documented in case it escalated and I needed to make my case.
Believe me, I didn't and don't want to do that unless I absolutely have no choice (and so far, there haven't been any further incidents).
His harassment of me, though, wasn't specifically sexual. I'm not going to detail the situation, but he was making me feel EXTREMELY uncomfortable and threatened without ever making a single unequivocally sexual remark. My choice of response, therefore, was different than it would have been had that not been the case. I felt threatened but I wasn't 100% certain he meant to hurt me; therefore, I wanted to be fair and not cause trouble for him when he hadn't necessarily understood how uncomfortable he was making me feel.
Now, let's say that tomorrow a male coworker with whom I previously had a good relationship and no problems comes up to me and says, "I love the way I can see your nipples through that shirt." DAMN STRAIGHT I am reporting him the minute I leave the room. DAMN STRAIGHT I am going to ask that he is disciplined. There is no way to interpret that remark favorably. There is no way I can give anyone the benefit of the doubt when they make that sort of remark.
So you see, there are different degrees of sexual harassment. And they should be treated differently. I didn't want my coworker disciplined because it was REMOTELY possible that his remarks and behavior were innocent (not likely, but possible), and because he finally stopped after I asked him to stop several times (that was part of why I did feel compelled to document it; I SHOULD ONLY HAVE HAD TO TELL HIM TO KNOCK IT OFF ONCE). He had, however, gone far enough that I was concerned about how far he might go the next time. And just in case that unfortunate eventuality occurred, I wanted proof that there had been previous incidents, and that I had told him to stop.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 25, 2011 18:49:52 GMT -5
However, if two women were talking about the great sex they had over the weekend and I could hear the conversation, I wouldn't consider them harassing me. I might find it completely vulgar and unacceptable in a work setting, but they aren't targeting me. They aren't trying to make me uncomfortable. They're having a stupid conversation probably with no thought whatsoever of the fact that I can even hear it, much less what I think about it. I don't consider that harassment.
While I agree with you, by the letter of the law (as explained to me in our required sexual harrassment seminars) this IS considered sexual harrassment.
In fact, the example that was used for us was that if there were 2 women in the restroom talking about their weekend sex and a third woman happened to be in the restroom, she could report them for sexual harrassment.
Personally, I thought it was ridiculous and a bit over the top.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 25, 2011 18:54:56 GMT -5
In fact, the example that was used for us was that if there were 2 women in the restroom talking about their weekend sex and a third woman happened to be in the restroom, she could report them for sexual harrassment.
Personally, I thought it was ridiculous and a bit over the top.
I happen to agree with you, but again, if it's sexual and it has the potential to offend someone, it has the potential to be harassment. And those conversations are best left to after-work drinks or private coffee breaks.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 25, 2011 18:55:29 GMT -5
Exactly. That's all I'm saying. In my personal opinion some of the sexual harassment complaints that are filed are ridiculous, even if they are harassment according to the letter of the law.
Getting fired is getting fired. Doesn't really matter whether or not the HR person telling to pack your crap and hit the bricks feels bad about it.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 25, 2011 18:58:40 GMT -5
Getting fired is getting fired. Doesn't really matter whether or not the HR person telling to pack your crap and hit the bricks feels bad about it.
You wouldn't be fired for discussing your sex life within earshot of another coworker, is what I'm saying. Unless you had been in trouble for it before and / or you signed a document that said you understood you could be fired on the first offense for such behavior.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 25, 2011 19:01:27 GMT -5
Exactly. That's all I'm saying. In my personal opinion some of the sexual harassment complaints that are filed are ridiculous, even if they are harassment according to the letter of the law.
And again, just because you and I think it's ridiculous doesn't mean someone can't be legitimately offended by it. You can't arbitrarily decide that it's okay to talk about sex in the bathroom and the woman is overreacting just because YOU PERSONALLY wouldn't find that a big deal.
Because where do you draw the line? You don't know what makes other people feel unsafe or threatened. And if they say that sexual discussion in the bathroom makes them feel that way, you have to take that seriously and not assume that they're just being oversensitive.
I'm out of here for the evening, so if I don't respond for awhile, that's why.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 25, 2011 19:03:52 GMT -5
I don't know about your employer but our zero tolerance policy on sexual harassment was pretty clear; any substantiated claim is grounds for immediate termination. There was also a whole paragraph that basically said ignorance of what does and does not constitute sexual harassment is no excuse for doing it. I'm no lawyer, but it seemed pretty clear that by signing that I agreed to be fired immediately if I ever say or do anything at all that somebody finds uncomfortable enough to complain about.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 25, 2011 19:09:57 GMT -5
I also said "if you signed a document saying you could be fired for inappropriate speech." Don't come crying to me if someone finds your discussion of your sex life inappropriate, reports it, and substantiates it enough to get you fired. You signed a document stating you were okay with that.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 25, 2011 19:20:14 GMT -5
I don't know, but whether or not it makes somebody uncomfortable is a pretty stupid line in my opinion. Hearing people talk about their faith at work makes me uncomfortable, it doesn't mean I should be able to get them fired for doing so. Pretty much anything that comes out of a pregnant woman's mouth that's related to her pregnancy is gross and uncomfortable, doesn't mean I should be able to get her fired. It's a disgustingly easy line to abuse, whether or not it really happens in practice. I don't have something better to replace it with, but that doesn't mean I have to like the current standard. I really don't think it's asking too much for adults to act like adults and learn to be a little selectively deaf. You aren't going to like every single aspect of every minute of your work day, or every single thing that comes out of your coworkers mouths, to a certain extent you need to just get the hell over it, or never leave the house. That's all I'm saying.
As it stands, my view isn't popular right now, so I walk on egg shells around any women I work with. It is what it is. I also have to walk on egg shells around any women I work with at functions outside of work, which means I'm less likely to do anything with them outside of work, because I don't want to feel forced to be uptight on my down time. But then you can get in trouble for that because you're being sexist and exclusionary. The whole thing is so stupid.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 25, 2011 19:20:34 GMT -5
"Remarking on a SEXUALIZED, PRIVATE BODY PART is not fine."
Ah but there's the rub, what happens if a woman keeps telling me "wow, you've got such BIG hands". She's commenting on my hands, is that ok? What if I look at a blonde and smirk as ask "is it natural?". WHat's ok and what's not...that's the entire problem with your list of sentences. I have no idea what preceded them or how they were delivered. In fact only one mentions an instance of being asked repeatedly. Is it ok if a woman tells me my shirt fits my chest well? It's not a sexualized body part.
"What is NOT fine is CONTINUING to discuss your sex life around a woman who has explicitly told you that she is uncomfortable with such talk. "
I agree, but i don't care if it's sex life or not. If you continue saying the same annoying things to me day after day, and I tell you to knock it off, and you don't, that's not appropriate.
"While I agree with you, by the letter of the law (as explained to me in our required sexual harrassment seminars) this IS considered sexual harrassment."
Which is exactly why sexual harassment is based exclusively on how much of a victim mentality you have in many cases. I can say "Your dress looks great" to the same 2 women in the exact same way, and to 1 it's harassment and to the other it's not. There are many cases which are clear cut, the rest of them boil down exclusively to the mentality you bring into the situation. The simple fact is, nearly everyone could find some reason to feel sexually harassed at least weekly...the reporting of that is based primarily on your own mentality about what you feel like reporting and what you don't. It's also based in a huge way on your feelings for that person. "We should go out for a drink after work" is either a great day when it's a guy you like, or it's creepy stalker harassment if you don't find the guy attractive. "That's a great top" is harassment when it's a guy you think is checking out your rack, but perfectly fine for some people to say to you.
So for all the complaints about how women have to be on the lookout to feel safe, guys have to be on the exact same lookout so as not to say anything remotely ambiguous that could be taken the wrong way. Forget talking about your sex life, we can't even stand at a female coworkers desk anymore while helping them, we have to go find a chair so as not to offend them by getting a look down their shirt. Shocking, no issue with women standing at our desks. Is it really because women think we're about to hold them down and rape them while they sit in their cube?
"Personally, I thought it was ridiculous and a bit over the top."
There seems to be the double standard that women sexually harassing women is ok for some reason. That's not a judgement, i just hear it ALL the time...things men could never get away with saying to women. The big point is, none of those things ARE sexual harassment, they CAN BE sexual harassment. It's the only crime that is only committed when someone "feels like" they're hte victim of it.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 25, 2011 19:27:47 GMT -5
I also said "if you signed a document saying you could be fired for inappropriate speech." Don't come crying to me if someone finds your discussion of your sex life inappropriate, reports it, and substantiates it enough to get you fired. You signed a document stating you were okay with that. Except it doesn't have to be about your sex life. Any substantiated sexual harassment. That means it CAN be something as simple as "nice shirt" followed by "he looked at my tits and said "nice shirt" in a really sleazy way". "Did you say "nice shirt"?" "Yes" "Bye, substantiated, and she felt harassed". That's what women don't seem to understand about the whole thing. You can walk around smacking each other on the ass talking about how your pregnancy is making you horny, how your nipples are hard and breasts swollen and since most guys aren't walking around just begging to find reasons to be a victim, you get away with it. Meanwhile guys dont' want to compliment you in any way, discuss anything personal, or look anywhere but the middle of your forehead for fear that one thing is gonna get us fired because nearly all of us who work for big companies basically signed something that says "one instance of harassment will end in termination"...and harassment is defined in it's basic element as making someone feel harassed. It's not "doing x, y, or z"...it's "making someone FEEL harassed".
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 25, 2011 19:33:38 GMT -5
Now who's claiming a victim mentality, hoops? I am soooo sorry that you're not allowed to compliment women in a way that makes them feel objectified and unsafe. You really caught a rough break on that one. I apologize for being insensitive. Clearly all you want is to be able to tell a woman she's hot enough to be a stripper without repercussion and it's so unfair that you live in a world where you have to be careful not to do that out of respect for the feelings of women.
Dark, religious harassment isn't okay either. More on this tomorrow.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Apr 25, 2011 19:50:20 GMT -5
When did it become normal to talk about sex at work? Seriously. May be it's not a harassment, but it's not appropriate in any way, shape or form and that's EXACTLY what I am talking about when I say to women and men (even though in my experience mostly women) - SHUT UP!!!
Lena
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 25, 2011 20:04:16 GMT -5
Are you purposefully missing the point?
Here's a real example for you guys. At least two women at work have told me lately that I'm looking good and asked if I've been working out or dieting. I have actually been working out, and I've cleaned up my diet a bit, both of which are showing. I'm pretty sure neither of these women were hitting on me. One of them is a bit like my work mom. However, I could legitimately file a sexual harassment complaint against either one of them if I decide that the comments make me uncomfortable. There's also the issue that I think far fewer men would say that to a female coworker because we're much more aware that we'd be fired in a hot second if we said something like that to a woman and she complained. Even though in all cases the comments weren't meant to be sexual at all really. It was more supportive if anything. Paying somebody a compliment for perceived effort on their part.
Contrary to what you ladies think, not every guy who says something nice to you is imagining you naked and trying to get you in bed. Sometimes we're just making conversation or trying to be nice. Or rather, we would be, if we weren't too afraid to even talk to you now that even a perceived slight could result in us losing our career.
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Post by illinicheme on Apr 25, 2011 20:08:28 GMT -5
I work in a male-dominated field. You end up putting up with some crap, mostly from the older and less educated guys. Mostly you deal with it by having a thick skin and trying to keep a sense of humor.
But I'll say that certain things that came to light about my previous work environment were very disturbing. It became known because some of my male peers mentioned it and got it dealt with. Turns out that the pilot plant staff had a habit of both commenting on every woman who walked by the window, as well as calling out special radio codes if someone was bringing a female candidate for a tour in the building. Once, someone walked into a meeting and caught them ranking the women in the department on the whiteboard in their conference room. No one get fired over it, but there were a bunch of stern talkings-to. It's very frustrating to find out that colleagues that you respected, and you thought respected you, are ranking your looks on a whiteboard somewhere. Certainly made me less likely to go out of my way to fight for those guys' jobs when layoffs came around.
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azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on Apr 25, 2011 20:09:03 GMT -5
Can we do a YM pool on how many "overly sensitive" "judgmental" "vindictive" "misguided" or "mistaken" females have made a report on hoops to a supervisor or HR? I'm placing $10 on 10. Let's not. I think this is one of those topics where it's nearly impossible to be 100% unbiased due to personal perspective and emotions being involved. As was mentioned earlier, what constitutes harassment to one person may not appear that way to another. I think the best policy is to keep it purely professional at work, which goes back to my point that the female worker in the OP's story did not, so she deserved to be called on the carpet for it. (And yes, her boss was a bigger idiot/moron/douchebag so don't think I'm letting him off the hook either.)
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 25, 2011 21:19:26 GMT -5
I was welcomed to my male dominated job (teaching PE where it was assumed you were a dyke) by the guys I worked with breaking into my locker and putting my bra and panties(always kept a change of clothes at work) out for the janitor or anyone else to see. I guess I could have called the principal at the time to the office and filed a complaint. What would have happened? Absolutely nothing except me losing my job. Each of the guys blamed the other of course when they realized that I didn't get "the joke." That I was angry and upset and that it just might backfire on them. They should have known better because in that school system, the man is always protected/promoted and the woman fired. I let it go but knew then to always cover my own butt because we were not a team. I Had to work to provide for my kids, leaving was not an option, even though it was the job from hell. That is why I am so grateful now to not have to work in a world that thinks it's still somehow the woman's fault.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 25, 2011 22:21:21 GMT -5
Can we do a YM pool on how many "overly sensitive" "judgmental" "vindictive" "misguided" or "mistaken" females have made a report on hoops to a supervisor or HR? I'm placing $10 on 10. But please keep in mind - no real harassment took place......it was just.....imagined....... Right, because if we've learned anything, it's that lesser women like yourself continue to view women as victims. Knowing that you have a daughter I'd really expect more from you than to perpetuate the propaganda to her that women are natural victims. Though maybe you want her to be a victim, women are catty like that, they don't want better for other women, even their own daughters.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 25, 2011 22:28:50 GMT -5
" It's very frustrating to find out that colleagues that you respected, and you thought respected you, are ranking your looks on a whiteboard somewhere."
Frustrating yes. But you don't think women do the same thing in female-dominated jobs? The only difference is women are smart enough not to write it down on a whiteboard. I've worked at 2 jobs where it leaked that women had detailed and lengthy conversations about how "big" they thought each guy who worked with them was, and in the 2nd how many girls they thought each guy had slept with. The difference is, guess how many of those guys who found out went around crying to management about it? Not everyone still throws grade-school hissyfits because someone is talking about them in ways they don't like.
If it isn't jeapordizing your safety or directly hindering your work...get over it. No one ever died because a guy spent an extra second checking out your ass when you walked by or because he told a dirty joke to his coworker that you overhead.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 26, 2011 1:21:15 GMT -5
Ahh, so this was a relationship and things went horribly wrong (who ever heard of that happening?)...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 26, 2011 1:31:32 GMT -5
And this is exactly where companies have to be very careful not to overreact. What if Ameiko and that woman had to work on a project together, and Ameiko did not want to be alone with her for fear that she would "drum up more evidence". Well, for starters, there is almost never any professional reason to be alone with someone that you work with and have had awkward personal interactions with in the past. And if you have been the orchestrator of said awkward personal interaction (i.e., you ask a woman out and she says no) then you'd do well to go out of your way to keep everything as aboveboard, professional, and polite as possible. Try to never be alone with her, and if you must be, leave the office door open, or at least cracked while you're talking. Don't stay late to work on the project without other people around. Don't make any personal comments whatsoever, focus on the task at hand. I mean, this is pretty basic stuff. If you do those things, then the woman has no way to "drum up more evidence." Oh, please won't somebody call me a 'prude' again for stating I'll NEVER meet alone with a woman other than my wife? This is fantastic advice. Brilliant, in fact. It's why you never heard of a scandal involving Billy Graham-- it's his policy, and it's mine. Now, add that to-- if you're single-- look OUTSIDE your workplace for love, sex, or whatever it is you're looking for. At work, keep it professional. This thread is a great example of my momma's words, "If you're doing what you're supposed to be doing, this stuff won't happen to you." It's not that I assume the guy is wrong-- I've already stated that some benefit of the doubt is in order here, and now knowing the other details I'd reinforce the point he has a juicy lawsuit-- it's just that he wouldn't be in this spot if he were doing what you're supposed to be doing.
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