gacpa
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Post by gacpa on May 17, 2019 10:56:37 GMT -5
I have lived in the South most of my adult life. There are lots of good people here. However, what they are doing with abortion rights in GA, AL and even MO (my home state) is just so wrong on so many levels. I am scared for the women of this country.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 17, 2019 11:53:56 GMT -5
Also... got this on Facebook... Tara Noone 8 hrs I think the "well she could just give it up for adoption" folks are woefully ignorant of state laws regarding adoption and relinquishment of father's rights. States vary WIDELY in terms of how and under what circumstances they will allow a birth father's rights to be terminated. As a former adoption social worker, I know this territory very well. The divide falls roughly as you think it would, with southern states tipping the balance heavily in favor of the birth father, who can prevent adoption even if he has no plans to support the child. Here in California the law supports the pregnant woman most strongly. We are the only state I know of in which a judge may consider a documented history of domestic violence to allow a victim to choose adoption without the knowledge or consent of her abuser in order to keep her safe. Basically, in California it is the responsibility of the man to stick around long enough to know if he created a pregnancy. If he did not stick around (and we still make incredible legally-required and documented efforts to find him and inform him) his parental rights can be terminated without his participation. His unreachability is understood to be disinterest. There are special protections for members of the military so their rights cannot be terminated while they are deployed and if they are in jail we serve them there. If he shows up before an adoption is finalized he can still contest the adoption and has a chance to prove paternity and demonstrate to the court he has a viable parenting plan. California has reasonable standards for that plan and they cannot be "the baby can stay at my mom's." However, if he makes his case, the baby must be removed from the adoptive parents the mother chose and go to the birth father who may never have met the child. Even if the birth mother deemed him unfit and that is why she chose adoption in the first place. Even if he is less interested in the child and more interested in exerting lifelong control over an ex-partner. And, as we have seen in recent years in San Francisco, we have some judges who do not follow the law and create extralegal hurdles for adoption professionals to jump over to terminate the parental rights of missing or dangerous birth fathers. This is the good case scenario. The bad case scenario ... well let me summarize a case I worked on in Mississippi. We were contacted by impoverished woman already supporting one child, 8 months pregnant and working at a restaurant she walked to and where she endured long shifts standing in slippers, the only footwear she owned. She shared an apartment with a male roommate who frightened her because it was all she could afford. She did not even own sheets to sleep on and the fridge was empty. She found one of our potential adoptive families on the internet and contacted us to make an adoption plan. Her former boyfriend had been recently incarcerated for a long sentence, more than 15 years. There was documentation of 11 other children around the state he had fathered yet had never supported. From prison, and with no possibility of parole in time to parent and no inclination to parent even if he was parolled, he was allowed to block the adoption plan. The law supported him forcing his ex to parent and there was literally no legal way for us to help her with an adoption plan. Because men's rights. The memory of that sweet, desperate woman and the thought of her and now two children being forced further into grinding poverty still wakes me up out of a sound sleep. I'll add that in TWO Mississippi adoptions I worked on 2013-2018, the babies died at the hospital. It used to be virtually unheard for babies with adoption plans to die. So to summarize, the states with the worst reproductive rights for women have highest maternal mortality rates, highest infant mortality rates, least participation in the ACA and Medicaid expansion, AND ARE THE HARDEST FOR A WOMAN TO PLACE A BABY FOR ADOPTION. I live in the South. There's a certain contingent that believes if you sin against God, you should be obligated to live a life of poverty so you can serve as a useful example of what happens to people who fall off the path of righteousness.
After all, if we helped unmarried women get an education, a well paying job, and a decent lifestyle, that wouldn't frighten other young women into behaving.
I love a lot of things about the South, but not the 'let God smite them for all to see' attitude some of them have.
Damn.....! It doesn't get more backwards than that.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 17, 2019 11:59:35 GMT -5
I have lived in the South most of my adult life. There are lots of good people here. However, what they are doing with abortion rights in GA, AL and even MO (my home state) is just so wrong on so many levels. I am scared for the women of this country.
if RvW is overturned, the red states will outlaw it, and the blue states will legalize it. what this will mean is that anyone wanting an abortion will have to travel. and that means that them which can afford it will get them.
just as it was before R-v-W. which was horrific.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 17, 2019 12:07:58 GMT -5
I may be mistaken but didn't one of the states (Alabama, Georgia, or Missouri) state if a resident travels out of state for the 'procedure' they would be prosecuted?
So will doctors in those three states be required to report pregnancies to the state if a patient comes to them to confirm they are pregnant? And could the state follow up with the patient from their state to confirm the pregnancy was successfully completed?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 12:14:20 GMT -5
I may be mistaken but didn't one of the states (Alabama, Georgia, or Missouri) state if a resident travels out of state for the 'procedure' they would be prosecuted? So will doctors in those three states be required to report pregnancies to the state if a patient comes to them to confirm they are pregnant? And could the state follow up with the patient from their state to confirm the pregnancy was successfully completed? I can see RvW getting overturned and the Red/Blue scenario happening above but I don’t know how it would be legal or enforceable for a state to prosecute you for doing something in another state that is legal there. Tried googling it and I can’t really find anything.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 17, 2019 12:17:08 GMT -5
I may be mistaken but didn't one of the states (Alabama, Georgia, or Missouri) state if a resident travels out of state for the 'procedure' they would be prosecuted? So will doctors in those three states be required to report pregnancies to the state if a patient comes to them to confirm they are pregnant? And could the state follow up with the patient from their state to confirm the pregnancy was successfully completed? I can see RvW getting overturned and the Red/Blue scenario happening above but I don’t know how it would be legal or enforceable for a state to prosecute you for doing something in another state that is legal there. Tried googling it and I can’t really find anything. they can't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 12:21:22 GMT -5
I can see RvW getting overturned and the Red/Blue scenario happening above but I don’t know how it would be legal or enforceable for a state to prosecute you for doing something in another state that is legal there. Tried googling it and I can’t really find anything. they can't. Was actually thinking about tagging you when i wrote that
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justme
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Post by justme on May 17, 2019 12:28:34 GMT -5
I have lived in the South most of my adult life. There are lots of good people here. However, what they are doing with abortion rights in GA, AL and even MO (my home state) is just so wrong on so many levels. I am scared for the women of this country.
if RvW is overturned, the red states will outlaw it, and the blue states will legalize it. what this will mean is that anyone wanting an abortion will have to travel. and that means that them which can afford it will get them.
just as it was before R-v-W. which was horrific.
Oh those that can't afford it will still get them, just not safe ones.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 17, 2019 12:41:54 GMT -5
I may be mistaken but didn't one of the states (Alabama, Georgia, or Missouri) state if a resident travels out of state for the 'procedure' they would be prosecuted? So will doctors in those three states be required to report pregnancies to the state if a patient comes to them to confirm they are pregnant? And could the state follow up with the patient from their state to confirm the pregnancy was successfully completed? I can see RvW getting overturned and the Red/Blue scenario happening above but I don’t know how it would be legal or enforceable for a state to prosecute you for doing something in another state that is legal there. Tried googling it and I can’t really find anything. agreed. the GA law is really just a Trojan horse. it is designed to be so horrific that the lower courts will all reject it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 13:03:11 GMT -5
And the governor of Alabama is a woman . Please explain to me how ANY woman could sign a law making no exceptions for rape or incest. Next she'll be signing something saying women can't have bank accounts or own property... I just can't wrap my head around this...
Disregarding your second line premise, which is frankly ridiculous...(I can't wrap my head around that either) It's mostly the women in my district, that are pushing for the elimination of abortion. It's the "men want to control our bodies" stereotyping, that is used for a men against the women vote getting, on these laws. That's laughed at down here.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on May 17, 2019 13:13:30 GMT -5
It is the Ga. law that wants to prosecute if you have an abortion in another state....and also prosecute anyone who helped...like drove you to a different state for the procedure.
X....seems I read that it was ALL males that voted for the Ala. law. But you need to check it cause I'm not going to.
Yes, southern women who have been "programed" from birth to do what both their church (male) pastor or any other male in their family tells them to do...are the ones pushing it in some areas. Would be interesting to see the results of a "critical thinking" test for these women.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on May 17, 2019 13:18:15 GMT -5
Then there's this... But yes, tell me again how it's all about the sanctity of life and NOT controlling women.
This is the whole thing in a nut shell....the men want control over their women...notice I said "their" cause many of them still think of we women as their possessions....either as a child or as their wife. The men also control their sisters if the father figure is out of the picture.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 17, 2019 14:18:26 GMT -5
I may be mistaken but didn't one of the states (Alabama, Georgia, or Missouri) state if a resident travels out of state for the 'procedure' they would be prosecuted? So will doctors in those three states be required to report pregnancies to the state if a patient comes to them to confirm they are pregnant? And could the state follow up with the patient from their state to confirm the pregnancy was successfully completed? Georgia wrote that into their law. I guess a woman goes to her OBGYN, finds out she's pregnant, goes to Florida for the weekend, comes back and she's not pregnant, the doctor is required to notify the State that a fetus disappeared, and the men in the pink trench coats come to inspect the woman's uterus to find out what happened. Unless the woman has some kind of proof she had a miscarriage instead of an abortion, she's going to jail for life.
Unenforceable, though, and they know it. They're just falling all over themselves to get something in front of the Supreme Court, but most likely, these stupid laws will be struck down by the lower courts and the SC will refuse to view it.
Meantime, the Dems got a plum scare tactic with which to rally their voters, tipping the 2020 odds a little more against Trump. Thanks, crazy Southern states!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 17, 2019 14:29:27 GMT -5
I may be mistaken but didn't one of the states (Alabama, Georgia, or Missouri) state if a resident travels out of state for the 'procedure' they would be prosecuted? So will doctors in those three states be required to report pregnancies to the state if a patient comes to them to confirm they are pregnant? And could the state follow up with the patient from their state to confirm the pregnancy was successfully completed? Georgia wrote that into their law. I guess a woman goes to her OBGYN, finds out she's pregnant, goes to Florida for the weekend, comes back and she's not pregnant, the doctor is required to notify the State that a fetus disappeared, and the men in the pink trench coats come to inspect the woman's uterus to find out what happened. Unless the woman has some kind of proof she had a miscarriage instead of an abortion, she's going to jail for life.
Unenforceable, though, and they know it. They're just falling all over themselves to get something in front of the Supreme Court, but most likely, these stupid laws will be struck down by the lower courts and the SC will refuse to view it.
Meantime, the Dems got a plum scare tactic with which to rally their voters, tipping the 2020 odds a little more against Trump. Thanks, crazy Southern states!
this is, indeed, what is likely to happen.
if a more moderate bill were drafted, it would likely be CONFIRMED by a lower court. that would ensure that it would make it to the SCOTUS, where it would have to be resolved against R-v-W. so, really, there is little, if any expectation that this will reach the SCOTUS and actually be heard. the obvious flaws will ensure that it will be crushed by the lower court and laughed out of a higher one.
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on May 17, 2019 14:49:42 GMT -5
I have lived in the South most of my adult life. There are lots of good people here. However, what they are doing with abortion rights in GA, AL and even MO (my home state) is just so wrong on so many levels. I am scared for the women of this country.
if RvW is overturned, the red states will outlaw it, and the blue states will legalize it. what this will mean is that anyone wanting an abortion will have to travel. and that means that them which can afford it will get them.
just as it was before R-v-W. which was horrific.
I want to say it is the GA bill that wants anyone going out of state to have an abortion to be charged with murder.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 17, 2019 14:52:17 GMT -5
I may be mistaken but didn't one of the states (Alabama, Georgia, or Missouri) state if a resident travels out of state for the 'procedure' they would be prosecuted? So will doctors in those three states be required to report pregnancies to the state if a patient comes to them to confirm they are pregnant? And could the state follow up with the patient from their state to confirm the pregnancy was successfully completed? Georgia wrote that into their law. I guess a woman goes to her OBGYN, finds out she's pregnant, goes to Florida for the weekend, comes back and she's not pregnant, the doctor is required to notify the State that a fetus disappeared, and the men in the pink trench coats come to inspect the woman's uterus to find out what happened. Unless the woman has some kind of proof she had a miscarriage instead of an abortion, she's going to jail for life.
Unenforceable, though, and they know it. They're just falling all over themselves to get something in front of the Supreme Court, but most likely, these stupid laws will be struck down by the lower courts and the SC will refuse to view it.
Meantime, the Dems got a plum scare tactic with which to rally their voters, tipping the 2020 odds a little more against Trump. Thanks, crazy Southern states!
Women won't be going to their ObGyns any more. They'll quietly take a pregnancy test at home, and then "go away for the weekend". If there are complications later, they can't go to their own doctors, for fear of prosecution. Charming.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 17, 2019 14:59:45 GMT -5
Georgia wrote that into their law. I guess a woman goes to her OBGYN, finds out she's pregnant, goes to Florida for the weekend, comes back and she's not pregnant, the doctor is required to notify the State that a fetus disappeared, and the men in the pink trench coats come to inspect the woman's uterus to find out what happened. Unless the woman has some kind of proof she had a miscarriage instead of an abortion, she's going to jail for life.
Unenforceable, though, and they know it. They're just falling all over themselves to get something in front of the Supreme Court, but most likely, these stupid laws will be struck down by the lower courts and the SC will refuse to view it.
Meantime, the Dems got a plum scare tactic with which to rally their voters, tipping the 2020 odds a little more against Trump. Thanks, crazy Southern states!
this is, indeed, what is likely to happen.
if a more moderate bill were drafted, it would likely be CONFIRMED by a lower court. that would ensure that it would make it to the SCOTUS, where it would have to be resolved against R-v-W. so, really, there is little, if any expectation that this will reach the SCOTUS and actually be heard. the obvious flaws will ensure that it will be crushed by the lower court and laughed out of a higher one.
But I for one am not laughing. Yes, it is highly likely that this law will get tossed in all the courts, but there will be a next law, much more "subdued" (for lack of a better word) and people will go "oh, this is so much more reasonable. It kind of makes sense" and they will go along. And then the next one follows, and the next. R-v-W will be overturned by the death of a thousand cuts and my (hypothetical) GGDs will face a place where they will have nowhere if they ever find themselves in need.
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oped
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Post by oped on May 17, 2019 15:21:44 GMT -5
I have lived in the South most of my adult life. There are lots of good people here. However, what they are doing with abortion rights in GA, AL and even MO (my home state) is just so wrong on so many levels. I am scared for the women of this country.
if RvW is overturned, the red states will outlaw it, and the blue states will legalize it. what this will mean is that anyone wanting an abortion will have to travel. and that means that them which can afford it will get them.
just as it was before R-v-W. which was horrific.
It means geographical self selection permanently too... with each side solidifying more... an inevitable break.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 17, 2019 16:05:44 GMT -5
if RvW is overturned, the red states will outlaw it, and the blue states will legalize it. what this will mean is that anyone wanting an abortion will have to travel. and that means that them which can afford it will get them.
just as it was before R-v-W. which was horrific.
I want to say it is the GA bill that wants anyone going out of state to have an abortion to be charged with murder. GA bill said any woman who had an abortion would be charged with murder, up to the death penalty. Doctors get charged, too, and so does anyone who assists the woman (like, drives her out of state). If you had a miscarriage but Georgia decided the miscarriage was a result of something you did (like you smoked, or had a beer, or bounced on a trampoline) you'd get charged with murder.
Completely unenforceable. How exactly would a woman be able to claim she had a miscarriage due to random bad luck and not because she had sushi? And is eating sushi really a crime that deserves the death penalty?
It's a joke, and it's a failure. All it's doing is pissing off a bunch of suburban GOP moms who might have held their noses and voted for Trump again, if they weren't terrified that he'd pack on a few more far right, abortion minded judges on the SC.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 17, 2019 18:23:56 GMT -5
Alabama, you got
The weight on your shoulders
That's breaking your back
Your Cadillac
Has got a wheel in the ditch
And a wheel on the track
Oh Alabama
Can I see you
And shake your hand
Make friends down in Alabama
I'm from a new land
I come to you
And see all this ruin
What are you doing Alabama?
You got the rest of the union
To help you along
What's going wrong?
- Neil Young
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jelloshots4all
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Post by jelloshots4all on May 17, 2019 18:58:12 GMT -5
And the governor of Alabama is a woman . Please explain to me how ANY woman could sign a law making no exceptions for rape or incest. Next she'll be signing something saying women can't have bank accounts or own property... I just can't wrap my head around this...
Disregarding your second line premise, which is frankly ridiculous...(I can't wrap my head around that either) It's mostly the women in my district, that are pushing for the elimination of abortion. It's the "men want to control our bodies" stereotyping, that is used for a men against the women vote getting, on these laws.That's laughed at down here. Explain your 3rd line. It truly is a bunch of old white men trying to control women's choices. You last comment explains a lot. You live in hill billy country and do not respect women, their choices, their power, their health nor their strength.
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justme
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Post by justme on May 18, 2019 0:23:11 GMT -5
I want to say it is the GA bill that wants anyone going out of state to have an abortion to be charged with murder. GA bill said any woman who had an abortion would be charged with murder, up to the death penalty. Doctors get charged, too, and so does anyone who assists the woman (like, drives her out of state). If you had a miscarriage but Georgia decided the miscarriage was a result of something you did (like you smoked, or had a beer, or bounced on a trampoline) you'd get charged with murder.
Completely unenforceable. How exactly would a woman be able to claim she had a miscarriage due to random bad luck and not because she had sushi? And is eating sushi really a crime that deserves the death penalty?
It's a joke, and it's a failure. All it's doing is pissing off a bunch of suburban GOP moms who might have held their noses and voted for Trump again, if they weren't terrified that he'd pack on a few more far right, abortion minded judges on the SC.
Well I mean these guys already think having sex should carry the mandatory possibility of death (re maternal mortality rates and forcing to carry pregnancy to term) is it really that far a stretch to extend it to sushi? 🤮
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on May 18, 2019 4:45:54 GMT -5
Just had a thought on GA law. It sounds like there would be massive violation of HIPPA laws. Would this open a can of worms in weakening HIPPA laws for all of us?
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oped
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Post by oped on May 18, 2019 6:50:33 GMT -5
Just us weak women who can’t be trusted with our own information and decisions and need to be watched, etc...
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busymom
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Post by busymom on May 18, 2019 7:24:04 GMT -5
In the case of the Georgia law, how is it the law can "follow" a woman out of state, or, out of the country? Isn't that like treating a woman as Georgia's property? Slavery has been outlawed for decades, so that makes no sense at all.
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steff
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Post by steff on May 18, 2019 11:33:02 GMT -5
I guess some of these men seem to forget that in the 1970's a woman couldn't get a bank account without her husband or father signing for her. She couldn't get a credit card on her own. Couldn't rent an apartment without a man's signature. couldn't rent a car.
Until RECENT history, women weren't allowed to do the basics to support herself ON HER OWN. She was REQUIRED to have a man "approve" her financial decisions.
So don't act like it's so far fetched that it couldn't possibly happen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 11:34:07 GMT -5
Disregarding your second line premise, which is frankly ridiculous...(I can't wrap my head around that either) It's mostly the women in my district, that are pushing for the elimination of abortion. It's the "men want to control our bodies" stereotyping, that is used for a men against the women vote getting, on these laws.That's laughed at down here. Explain your 3rd line. It truly is a bunch of old white men trying to control women's choices. You last comment explains a lot. You live in hill billy country and do not respect women, their choices, their power, their health nor their strength. You need to repeat your post here to Kay Ivey, governor of Alabama. Her concern level over your stereotyping, will be as high as mine. She signed the legislation into law.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 12:06:04 GMT -5
Just us weak women who can’t be trusted with our own information and decisions and need to be watched, etc... Just stay in the kitchen with the shoes off and pregnant. All will be fine and your man will love you.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on May 18, 2019 14:47:54 GMT -5
I guess some of these men seem to forget that in the 1970's a woman couldn't get a bank account without her husband or father signing for her. She couldn't get a credit card on her own. Couldn't rent an apartment without a man's signature. couldn't rent a car.
Until RECENT history, women weren't allowed to do the basics to support herself ON HER OWN. She was REQUIRED to have a man "approve" her financial decisions.
So don't act like it's so far fetched that it couldn't possibly happen.
I didn't live in Ga. in the 70's...not until the 80's, but I've done all that you stated above since the early 60's all by myself in Ill., Ca. & Fl. I had my own credit card in 1964...in my name & no one signed cause I was on my own in Ca. with no close relatives around...rented several apts. & had a bank acct on my own starting in the late 50's. Boy, the southern women have REALLY been beaten down & controlled....worse than I realized.
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Post by Opti on May 18, 2019 14:54:01 GMT -5
Glad I have no interest in moving there. Great way to halt the migration of industry to your state.
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