NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Mar 10, 2019 13:40:33 GMT -5
Yes, it seems like child endangerment. I hope taxpayers aren't stuck with that 800 k bill. You know they are. The $800k also excluded his life flight, 2 weeks inpatient rehab and all follow up care. Although I'm not sure how much follow up care was there since they still refuse to vaccinate him! Oh, we will be paying for this. Be it through taxes directly or higher insurance premiums. And if they have from the "right" group of people behind them, there will be a go fund me action as well to defray their cost. Makes you wonder why we make beating a child almost to death illegal, if we are not willing to take action in cases like this.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 10, 2019 18:08:07 GMT -5
You know they are. The $800k also excluded his life flight, 2 weeks inpatient rehab and all follow up care. Although I'm not sure how much follow up care was there since they still refuse to vaccinate him! Oh, we will be paying for this. Be it through taxes directly or higher insurance premiums. And if they have from the "right" group of people behind them, there will be a go fund me action as well to defray their cost. Makes you wonder why we make beating a child almost to death illegal, if we are not willing to take action in cases like this. I just don’t understand the parent’s rationalization. How many whooping cough cases have there been in unvaccinated children, where when (if) the kid recovers, it changes their mind about vaccination. Why not this time? Blame Big Pharma? Who the hell do they think provided the drugs to save the kid? It is a rare event? How the hell do they think how childhood diseases became a rare event?
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on Mar 10, 2019 20:09:37 GMT -5
If the parents end up liable for a lot of money on this bill, they will likely file bankruptcy if they haven't done so recently. And if they have, they do a payment plan with the hospital/doctors to get them to a point in the future when they can file bankruptcy again.
The articles you see online about how people file bankruptcy over medical bills do not really address how some people amass huge medical bills due to their own stupidity and then file for a bankruptcy discharge so we all get to pay for it.
ETA: maybe some of those quack doctors who advise parents not to have their kids vaccinated will chip in to pay the bill. Wouldn't that be nice? Does their liability insurance (if they have it) cover this? Honestly, if I were a doctor who advised parents to vaccinate, and they didn't, and the kids ended up with those diseases, I would expect to be held liable. If I were a doctor who advised parents to vaccinate and they chose not to, I would expect them to sign a form saying they received certain literature (spelled out in the waiver), were advised of the risks of not vaccinating, and they waive the right to hold me liable if the child was hospitalized for one of those diseases. Parental choice, assumption of the risk and all...
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 10, 2019 20:41:06 GMT -5
If the parents end up liable for a lot of money on this bill, they will likely file bankruptcy if they haven't done so recently. And if they have, they do a payment plan with the hospital/doctors to get them to a point in the future when they can file bankruptcy again. The articles you see online about how people file bankruptcy over medical bills do not really address how some people amass huge medical bills due to their own stupidity and then file for a bankruptcy discharge so we all get to pay for it. ETA: maybe some of those quack doctors who advise parents not to have their kids vaccinated will chip in to pay the bill. Wouldn't that be nice? Does their liability insurance (if they have it) cover this? Honestly, if I were a doctor who advised parents to vaccinate, and they didn't, and the kids ended up with those diseases, I would expect to be held liable. If I were a doctor who advised parents to vaccinate and they chose not to, I would expect them to sign a form saying they received certain literature (spelled out in the waiver), were advised of the risks of not vaccinating, and they waive the right to hold me liable if the child was hospitalized for one of those diseases. Parental choice, assumption of the risk and all... If I had to hazard a guess, the kid rarely, if ever saw a doctor after he was born. Apparently the parents stitched up the forehead laceration that caused the tetanus, and if a parent isn’t going to go to a doctor to get stitches, I doubt they’d go for anything else.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 11, 2019 6:32:51 GMT -5
Attach that farm. That’s just bs that the parents endangered their child to begin with and then expect taxpayers to take care of it and them.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 11, 2019 6:34:38 GMT -5
I know a very poor single mom. She still takes her child to the pediatrician but then goes to someplace else for the immunizations because they’re free there. No excuses for this.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Mar 11, 2019 7:20:42 GMT -5
My brother and I got all of our immunizations at the local health department. Our pediatrician's office told my mom to take us there because it was cheaper.
If you have insurance are those a $0 copay visit under ACA? Seems like it should be but maybe not.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 7:23:30 GMT -5
I know a very poor single mom. She still takes her child to the pediatrician but then goes to someplace else for the immunizations because they’re free there. No excuses for this. Immunizations and well child checks are free under preventative care. I mean, you have to have insurance, but if she's poor they'd be covered under the states plan.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 11, 2019 9:18:57 GMT -5
I know a very poor single mom. She still takes her child to the pediatrician but then goes to someplace else for the immunizations because they’re free there. No excuses for this. Immunizations and well child checks are free under preventative care. I mean, you have to have insurance, but if she's poor they'd be covered under the states plan. She’s not poor enough it seems. I don’t think she has any insurance at all. Medicaid isn’t taken by too many doctors. She pays cash for her daughters visits and gets the shots for free I think at some special place where you get the weird shots like if you’re going to Africa. She’s waiting for her daughter to start K and then trying to get a job with the school system. I give her credit that she made one mistake and isn’t repeating it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 11, 2019 9:19:49 GMT -5
My brother and I got all of our immunizations at the local health department. Our pediatrician's office told my mom to take us there because it was cheaper. If you have insurance are those a $0 copay visit under ACA? Seems like it should be but maybe not. That may be where she goes.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Mar 11, 2019 9:56:46 GMT -5
The local agency where I volunteered for the rep payee, gives free vaccines. They provide a lot of services, like diapers.
It's a non-profit, not a state agency.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 11, 2019 13:08:04 GMT -5
Immunizations and well child checks are free under preventative care. I mean, you have to have insurance, but if she's poor they'd be covered under the states plan. She’s not poor enough it seems. I don’t think she has any insurance at all. Medicaid isn’t taken by too many doctors. She pays cash for her daughters visits and gets the shots for free I think at some special place where you get the weird shots like if you’re going to Africa. She’s waiting for her daughter to start K and then trying to get a job with the school system. I give her credit that she made one mistake and isn’t repeating it. Our county does a free vaccine clinic at least once a month I think. I know they run one right before school starts. Some of the pediatric offices also participate. Children's does free flu shot clinics too. Our insurance covers vaccines 100% with no copy pay up to age 5. I'd have to check about ones for myself. I know Hep A/B was covered when I got them. Dtap booster got covered as part of my post natal care. I need to find out if Gardasil is covered. Even if it isn't I will pay out of pocket for Gwen to get it, it's worth it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 13:16:59 GMT -5
I need to find out if Gardasil is covered. Even if it isn't I will pay out of pocket for Gwen to get it, it's worth it. My insurance covered it 100% for older son.
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 11, 2019 13:17:50 GMT -5
She’s not poor enough it seems. I don’t think she has any insurance at all. Medicaid isn’t taken by too many doctors. She pays cash for her daughters visits and gets the shots for free I think at some special place where you get the weird shots like if you’re going to Africa. She’s waiting for her daughter to start K and then trying to get a job with the school system. I give her credit that she made one mistake and isn’t repeating it. Our county does a free vaccine clinic at least once a month I think. I know they run one right before school starts. Some of the pediatric offices also participate. Children's does free flu shot clinics too. Our insurance covers vaccines 100% with no copy pay up to age 5. I'd have to check about ones for myself. I know Hep A/B was covered when I got them. Dtap booster got covered as part of my post natal care. I need to find out if Gardasil is covered. Even if it isn't I will pay out of pocket for Gwen to get it, it's worth it. It probably will be. My mom dragged me down the second our insurance finally said it was to be covered 100% like all other vaccines and that was soon after it came out. I think she even paid the first shot out of pocket and waited to get her money back. I tell myself her rush was because I was only home from college for winter break for so long. FWIW I get the pneumonia shot for free too - but I have asthma. And didn't pay for my Dtap booster and I haven't had a kid.
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Poptart
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Post by Poptart on Mar 11, 2019 14:18:54 GMT -5
I knew I would get jumped on. Agree to disagree. Have you watched the movie? Why not space out vaccinations? Why can’t we question this? Why the big ass jump of autism? Have any of you researched how the costs of development disabilities are costing school districts here and around the world? It has jumped the last thirty years. I guess this is going to be the new normal. The CDC can do no wrong. Uh huh. Citizens can sue drug companies for everything but vaccines. What the hell is wrong with that? Taxpayers are paying for vaccine injuries. Billion dollar industry with no liability. Bullshit. No, let's not agree to disagree. This is not about whether pineapple belongs on a pizza or not, this is a health crisis created by people so stupid that they never should have bred. Now, if you want to run the risk of your child getting a completely preventable illness that's on you, but your child who I don't love or care for is out there possibly spreading illness to people like my sister who could die because her immune system is compromised. I had an anxiety attach when she went to Disney last year because I was afraid she'd catch something from a child whose parents are too stupid to live. I am 9 years older than my sisters, but in those nine years they started to give kids the vaccine to stop chickenpox and my sisters never had to go through that. I really hope some of these people don't have to deal with their kids getting the measles but if they do, they deserve it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 11, 2019 14:50:30 GMT -5
I knew I would get jumped on. Agree to disagree. Have you watched the movie? Why not space out vaccinations? Why can’t we question this? Why the big ass jump of autism? Have any of you researched how the costs of development disabilities are costing school districts here and around the world? It has jumped the last thirty years. I guess this is going to be the new normal. The CDC can do no wrong. Uh huh. Citizens can sue drug companies for everything but vaccines. What the hell is wrong with that? Taxpayers are paying for vaccine injuries. Billion dollar industry with no liability. Bullshit. No, let's not agree to disagree. This is not about whether pineapple belongs on a pizza or not, this is a health crisis created by people so stupid that they never should have bred. Now, if you want to run the risk of your child getting a completely preventable illness that's on you, but your child who I don't love or care for is out there possibly spreading illness to people like my sister who could die because her immune system is compromised. I had an anxiety attach when she went to Disney last year because I was afraid she'd catch something from a child whose parents are too stupid to live. I am 9 years older than my sisters, but in those nine years they started to give kids the vaccine to stop chickenpox and my sisters never had to go through that. I really hope some of these people don't have to deal with their kids getting the measles but if they do, they deserve it. When they do, CPS should be involved. It’s neglect. If their kid infects another, the parents should be held legally responsible
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on Mar 11, 2019 20:49:39 GMT -5
If the parents end up liable for a lot of money on this bill, they will likely file bankruptcy if they haven't done so recently. And if they have, they do a payment plan with the hospital/doctors to get them to a point in the future when they can file bankruptcy again. The articles you see online about how people file bankruptcy over medical bills do not really address how some people amass huge medical bills due to their own stupidity and then file for a bankruptcy discharge so we all get to pay for it. ETA: maybe some of those quack doctors who advise parents not to have their kids vaccinated will chip in to pay the bill. Wouldn't that be nice? Does their liability insurance (if they have it) cover this? Honestly, if I were a doctor who advised parents to vaccinate, and they didn't, and the kids ended up with those diseases, I would expect to be held liable. If I were a doctor who advised parents to vaccinate and they chose not to, I would expect them to sign a form saying they received certain literature (spelled out in the waiver), were advised of the risks of not vaccinating, and they waive the right to hold me liable if the child was hospitalized for one of those diseases. Parental choice, assumption of the risk and all... If I had to hazard a guess, the kid rarely, if ever saw a doctor after he was born. Apparently the parents stitched up the forehead laceration that caused the tetanus, and if a parent isn’t going to go to a doctor to get stitches, I doubt they’d go for anything else. You're probably right. But in my experience which is with my sister and her daughter/her kids, they go to doctors when they are sick "because that's what doctors are trained and paid to do." I also find it interesting that they never admit to having the flu. They're in bed for a week every winter with a "cold" that comes with fever, chills, body aches, dizziness, etc. But it's just a "bad cold." My niece even posted on Facebook once that she had the flu and I asked my sister about it. She responded she didn't think it was the flu. Because it never is something you could actually vaccinate to avoid.
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 11, 2019 22:55:39 GMT -5
If I had to hazard a guess, the kid rarely, if ever saw a doctor after he was born. Apparently the parents stitched up the forehead laceration that caused the tetanus, and if a parent isn’t going to go to a doctor to get stitches, I doubt they’d go for anything else. You're probably right. But in my experience which is with my sister and her daughter/her kids, they go to doctors when they are sick "because that's what doctors are trained and paid to do." I also find it interesting that they never admit to having the flu. They're in bed for a week every winter with a "cold" that comes with fever, chills, body aches, dizziness, etc. But it's just a "bad cold." My niece even posted on Facebook once that she had the flu and I asked my sister about it. She responded she didn't think it was the flu. Because it never is something you could actually vaccinate to avoid. Pretty much. My SIL likes to brag her kids have only had one sick visit. But I've heard of several times they had fevers or runny noses etc. And that's without them going to daycare. They've only in the last year even gone to the groups at church. The oils aren't working, they've just only been in close contact with vaccinated adults 95% of their life! And both parents work from home with 2 retired grandparents and 1 sahm grandma who homeschooled the kids.
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oped
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Post by oped on Mar 11, 2019 23:21:03 GMT -5
I’m perfectly ok with spacing out vaccinations and taking it on a kid by kid case. Mine handled them well so they got them all eventually, till they were old enough to choose for themselves.
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 12, 2019 0:08:02 GMT -5
While the rational side of me that has full faith in medical professionals and scientific studies thinks it's ridiculous to vary based on a feeling. I also realize that being fully vaccinated is way more important than the speed at which you are - to a point at least.
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oped
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Post by oped on Mar 12, 2019 10:03:51 GMT -5
While the rational side of me that has full faith in medical professionals and scientific studies thinks it's ridiculous to vary based on a feeling. I also realize that being fully vaccinated is way more important than the speed at which you are - to a point at least. It’s relativrly recent that infants started getting something like 24 vaccinations by their 2nd birthday... There is absolutely no reason why a general child needs a heo b vaccine as an infant. They do it because early childhood is when they get parents most compliant and frequently visiting. Etc.
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 12, 2019 11:19:13 GMT -5
While the rational side of me that has full faith in medical professionals and scientific studies thinks it's ridiculous to vary based on a feeling. I also realize that being fully vaccinated is way more important than the speed at which you are - to a point at least. It’s relativrly recent that infants started getting something like 24 vaccinations by their 2nd birthday... There is absolutely no reason why a general child needs a heo b vaccine as an infant. They do it because early childhood is when they get parents most compliant and frequently visiting. Etc. Exactly. They've done studies that show when it's best and safe to get the vaccines. Compliance is a big part of it, otherwise vaccines start to be rendered useless when their use drops below a certain percent. Why do you say there's absolutely no reason to get hep b that young? You're saying no young child is ever exposed to blood or bodily fluids? It might not be likely, and the most often cause of transference is sex or needle sharing, but there's still a risk. Back before they moved it to early childhood - my county/state (forget which) required it before you could enter 7th grade. BTW - it's not 24 vaccinations. There's only 12 vaccines on the schedule - if you count the flu shot and HPV & Meningococcus which aren't recommended until 11. So that's 10 if you get the flu shot, 9 if you don't, before their 2nd birthday.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 12, 2019 11:50:12 GMT -5
It’s relativrly recent that infants started getting something like 24 vaccinations by their 2nd birthday... There is absolutely no reason why a general child needs a heo b vaccine as an infant. They do it because early childhood is when they get parents most compliant and frequently visiting. Etc. Exactly. They've done studies that show when it's best and safe to get the vaccines. Compliance is a big part of it, otherwise vaccines start to be rendered useless when their use drops below a certain percent. Why do you say there's absolutely no reason to get hep b that young? You're saying no young child is ever exposed to blood or bodily fluids? It might not be likely, and the most often cause of transference is sex or needle sharing, but there's still a risk. Back before they moved it to early childhood - my county/state (forget which) required it before you could enter 7th grade. BTW - it's not 24 vaccinations. There's only 12 vaccines on the schedule - if you count the flu shot and HPV & Meningococcus which aren't recommended until 11. So that's 10 if you get the flu shot, 9 if you don't, before their 2nd birthday. Another thing.....infant’s immune systems are some of the strongest out there. As you get older, your immune system and response to vaccination starts to wane. From the studies I’ve done, you do not respond nearly as well as an adult as you do a very young child to a foreign antigen (like a new vaccine). However, adults can mount a very good immune response to an antigen seen in childhood.....thus the reasoning of only needing a DPaP every 10 years, or when it is needed.
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oped
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Post by oped on Mar 12, 2019 12:39:22 GMT -5
Yeah. Bullshit. I got Hep B vaccinated as an adult when i worked with a population were that was prevalent. My kids got Hep A when we went to romania and it was recommended, not before. Yes. I'm saying if you don't live with a relative that has Hep B or a crack den, you have almost no chance of getting Hep B as an infant/young child. Not being able to be honest about things like... hey, we give hep b to infants because we worry that low income and low intelligence parents won't give it to their kids if we wait... and we don't/can't ask if parents might have hep b or a relative with hep b... is part of the problem. There are LEGITIMATE concerns about how many vaccinations infants get and NO there actually haven't been good long term studies because its a relatively recent practice to give so many. But by all mean, lump everyone together and tell anyone if they have any concerns they are a crackpot conspiracy theorist... that should help solve the problem... And it is over 20+ inoculations before the age of 2... yes, some are repeats.. (because why titre and see if anyone actually Needs more on an individual level, because everyone should be good so go... ) www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/downloads/milestones-tracker.pdfYeah... infants have good immunity... because they get it FROM their mothers...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 12, 2019 12:48:03 GMT -5
Actually Hep B is sexually transmitted and can absolutely be contracted by an infant when passing thru the birth canal. Hep B is devastating for infants.
Many people do not know they carry it. It's now a part of prenatal screening but there are women who don't get proper care.
I didn't have all three so I end up having a titer done every time. Since I have antibodies I got the option to either given the kids the shot at birth or wait.
If I had Hep B then it's automatic.
It's not some scheme on the part of doctors. Hep B is a public health problem in a lot of areas. Vaccination at birth for at risk babies saves lives and prevents spread.
I talked at length with my OB cause my vaccine records are incomplete so I always have to have bonus tests.
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oped
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Post by oped on Mar 12, 2019 12:56:19 GMT -5
Great. How is vaccinating an infant through 18 months after birth going to stop them from getting Hep B in the birth canal?
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oped
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Post by oped on Mar 12, 2019 13:11:41 GMT -5
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3290915/Since the start of Hep B inoculations in children, the number of child under 15 who became infected hasn't moved much... generally because they were NEVER a high impact group. Its' teenagers who start to become highly infected... because, hey, drugs and sex. Although even then, incidence in the US is like .4-2 percent... so not exactly epidemic. but hey, give you that. vaccinations work well to decrease the risk for those populations in that age bracket. Done. My kids had them by the time they were teenagers. But the idea that i can't decide to wait to give that particular vaccine till a kid is 6-10 based on my own and their personal risk level ... that 'the evidence' somehow supports a different interpretation, that it must be given at birth to 18 months, is what keeps relatively sane people voting WITH the crazy conspiracy theorists. Because if the issue is you get to make all the decisions about when and what goes into my kid's body, or none of the decisions... no in between... I'm going to have to go with NONE.
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 12, 2019 13:12:54 GMT -5
Infants only have their mother's immunity until 6 months. That's why immunization starts after they are 6 months.
Why don't the do a titre? Well, for one that's what the vaccine studies are for. They figure out how many doses are needed by studying it. No one's just randomly picking the number of doses out of their ass. It's just a wasted use of resources to test to see if you're one of the few on the outlier that get full immunity before all doses. Not to mention you're not reducing any perceived harm to the child as you still have to prick them with a needle to draw blood to run a titre. (And personally, I was more traumatized as a kid by blood draws then shots.)
As for your "LEGITIMATE" concerns...ok, where's the legitimate concerns? Any scientific or medical concerns that are from a legitimate source?
The last new vaccine on the schedule for those under 2 is Hep A which was added in 2006. Or 13 years ago. Before that Pneumococal in 2000 or 19 years ago. (BTW that disease has dropped almost 80% since the addition of the vaccine) Rotavirus was in added in 1998. (BTW it's oral so no shots and CDC says it's most effective if first dose is given before 15 weeks) Varicella was in 1995. Hep B was added for infants in 1991. Hib in 1991 as well. MMR in 1977. Polio in 1955. DTP/DTaP started in 1948 but has been update to the DTaP.
So all the recommended vaccines for <2yrs have been recommended for over a decade and most for decades.
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oped
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Post by oped on Mar 12, 2019 13:26:41 GMT -5
They give immunizations at birth up to 6 months. But then you know that since you said Rotavirus was given before 15 weeks.
They have added a lot of extra doses. Even from when my kids were young. Certainly since I was vaccinated. And they change those things too. Currently the new adult hep b is only 2 doses in 30 days.
Adding recommendation does not = immediate, general compliance. The best i could find is a statement that vaccination rates were up 12% from 2012 to 2018... so still no where near full compliance at current rate. (oh and that was only among people with employer paid insurance...)
Sorry, I like to see how my kids respond to anything. We have extremely sensitive systems. If i want to give them a vaccination they don't really need until a time when they might really need it in order to spread them out, i will. And if that means you need to lump me in with a person who think that vaccinations are a hoax and will never give one, fine. But if that is the only place i maintain my rights and can fight for my children's rights, then i guess i'd have to go all in. Seems to me a shame to make it such a black and white line, but hey.
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 12, 2019 13:37:39 GMT -5
To see how your specific kids respond to things is one thing.
To blindly be questioning the number of doses needed without any science to say less doses are better is another. It's been studied and the studies have shown the number of doses that work best to give immunity.
The reason why the adult hep b vaccine is only 2 doses and the child is 3 is because they're difference vaccines. The adult one has only be approved by the FDA for those over 18 and that's why children get 3 doses - they haven't been approved for the one with 2!!! There's another vaccine that is also only 2 doses - but only approved for those ages 11-15.
I take issue with your "lots of doses are bad" when there's actual proven science behind the dose. Again, they are not randomly pulling number of doses and ages to receive vaccines out of their asses. There are actual reasons to delay and spread out, but most of them are just emotional responses and feelings.
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