swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,343
Member is Online
|
Post by swamp on Mar 6, 2019 10:58:17 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure my former business partner is high functioning autistic, but since he is over 70, he was just considered "quirky."
Hell, I'm probably on the spectrum, but there wasn't a rush to diagnose everyone when i was in school. A diagnosis for a kid means more money for the school.
|
|
TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 27,263
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on Mar 6, 2019 11:01:12 GMT -5
My sister now thinks her oldest son is on the spectrum. He is in his upper 30's and was a quirky nerd type and still is.
|
|
busymom
Distinguished Associate
Why is the rum always gone? Oh...that's why.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 21:09:36 GMT -5
Posts: 28,436
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://cdn.nickpic.host/images/IPauJ5.jpg","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0D317F
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0D317F
|
Post by busymom on Mar 6, 2019 11:03:03 GMT -5
As a parent of a kid on the spectrum, I was among those in the past who didn't believe that vaccines could be a factor. That is, until what happened to a mom I'd known for years. Due to a very ugly legal separation she'd had from her kid's dad, she'd missed a dose of vaccinations on her son. The doctor, for reasons I don't know, decided to double up on her son's vaccinations. Her son ended up VERY sick from that double dose, plus, he lost immediately lost his speech, which was shocking. I mean, I knew the kid, and he was as talkative and active, as any kid his age, and he lost it all. Seeing it personally, made me believe that maybe there WAS SOMETHING to all of the rumors about a tie between vaccinations and autism. Maybe there is a genetic predisposition, combined with vaccinating. But definitely doing a double dose was the wrong thing to do for this particular child. He was officially diagnosed with autism in the next year. I'd seen this kid every day for years, because his mom & I picked up our kids at school at the same time, and the difference in this kid still shocks me to this day. He didn't deserve this, and neither did his mom.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Mar 6, 2019 11:14:07 GMT -5
Not sure entirely what you mean by double dose. Did the kid miss one shot for MMR and the doctor instead gave him 2 doses of it at once? Did he miss the MMR shot and was due for the chickenpox shot so the doctor gave him both at the same time? Those are two very different things. With one being wildly different from protocol.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 6, 2019 12:00:10 GMT -5
As a parent of a kid on the spectrum, I was among those in the past who didn't believe that vaccines could be a factor. That is, until what happened to a mom I'd known for years. Due to a very ugly legal separation she'd had from her kid's dad, she'd missed a dose of vaccinations on her son. The doctor, for reasons I don't know, decided to double up on her son's vaccinations. Her son ended up VERY sick from that double dose, plus, he lost immediately lost his speech, which was shocking. I mean, I knew the kid, and he was as talkative and active, as any kid his age, and he lost it all. Seeing it personally, made me believe that maybe there WAS SOMETHING to all of the rumors about a tie between vaccinations and autism. Maybe there is a genetic predisposition, combined with vaccinating. But definitely doing a double dose was the wrong thing to do for this particular child. He was officially diagnosed with autism in the next year. I'd seen this kid every day for years, because his mom & I picked up our kids at school at the same time, and the difference in this kid still shocks me to this day. He didn't deserve this, and neither did his mom. A double dose makes absolutely no sense, immunologically. That doctor needed a good course in immunology. More antigen doesn’t mean a higher immune response, nor does it compensate for repeated immunizations over time.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,318
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 6, 2019 12:52:57 GMT -5
I HIGHLY encourage people to please educate themselves. Go to Google Scholar or PubMed and look up the 30+ years of research into autism and vaccines. There are free courses on Coursera about these subjects. You can buy a textbook if you want.
They just did a study with over 600,000 subjects the largest study ever done and there was NO LINK FOUND between autism and vaccines.
It's a correlation because autism tends to manifest and now they screen at age 2, which also happens to be the time when you have received the majority of your vaccinations. Lawyers looking to make a name and a buck preyed on parents and a certain doctor named Wakefield (whose grave I will dance on) was receiving very large sums of money to "prove" vaccines caused autism so said lawyers could win. His study has NEVER been reproduced and was finally removed from Lancet recently. His "study" consisted of 8 children he never even met, he just talked to their parents and drew conclusions. That is NOT how science is done.
In the meantime there is now 30 years of data proving the opposite. You are free to have your beliefs and opinions but they are just that. Beliefs and opinions should not be given equal weight to reproducible facts. Sorry.
Do people really believe the entire world could in 30+ years keep "the truth" away from the public? You think if Trump knew "the truth" he wouldn't have tweeted it out already to his adoring fans?
Vaccines are some of the most regulated and studied drugs in the world. That's why they are so costly to make and why now only a handful of companies will do it.
There are more vaccines because we are in the 21st century. There are more because we better understand how to maximize the efficacy of vaccines. Some diseases do better with others in one vial, some do better standing alone. Some things that before current available technology would have been impossible to create an effective/safe vaccine for we now can.
Thermisol has not been in vaccinations since the 90s. Thanks to this the storage conditions for vaccines had to be changed which makes it very difficult for places like Africa which has a tropical climate to establish a nation wide vaccine program due to lack of proper storage. This is something in our first world privilege do not seem to give a shit about.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 14,755
|
Post by raeoflyte on Mar 6, 2019 13:17:10 GMT -5
There has been so much money spent on trying to replicate the original "study". I don't understand the conspiracy theory idea that everyone who has failed to replicate those results are working with the man, or together, or just specifically to continue to harm children? These studies aren't done (only) by the pharmaceutical companies. They've been done by independent researchers. Independent can definitely not be said for the original study.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 6, 2019 13:27:18 GMT -5
There has been so much money spent on trying to replicate the original "study". I don't understand the conspiracy theory idea that everyone who has failed to replicate those results are working with the man, or together, or just specifically to continue to harm children? These studies aren't done (only) by the pharmaceutical companies. They've been done by independent researchers. Independent can definitely not be said for the original study. If you consider that millions, possibly billions of $$, €€, ££, ¥¥ have been put into research to attempt to invalidate Wakefield’s fraud and lies and there isn’t a shred of evidence. One would think that those parents of kids with autism would be much more angry at research dollars being diverted away to repetitive research rather than looking at other possible causes of autism.
|
|
busymom
Distinguished Associate
Why is the rum always gone? Oh...that's why.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 21:09:36 GMT -5
Posts: 28,436
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://cdn.nickpic.host/images/IPauJ5.jpg","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0D317F
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0D317F
|
Post by busymom on Mar 6, 2019 14:29:33 GMT -5
Not sure entirely what you mean by double dose. Did the kid miss one shot for MMR and the doctor instead gave him 2 doses of it at once? Did he miss the MMR shot and was due for the chickenpox shot so the doctor gave him both at the same time? Those are two very different things. With one being wildly different from protocol. The doctor gave him 2 doses at once. Double the normal amount in the syringe.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Mar 6, 2019 14:37:17 GMT -5
Not sure entirely what you mean by double dose. Did the kid miss one shot for MMR and the doctor instead gave him 2 doses of it at once? Did he miss the MMR shot and was due for the chickenpox shot so the doctor gave him both at the same time? Those are two very different things. With one being wildly different from protocol. The doctor gave him 2 doses at once. Double the normal amount in the syringe. Well that's a stupid ass doctor not the vaccine. And you can't argue "if it's not safe in a double dose then you shouldn't have it in one". Plenty of drugs aren't safe if you take too much of them - that's why there's doses! And there's plenty more that are only safe in one delivery method - there's drugs you can inject but not in a vein and drugs that go in a vein but not inject. Etc etc. And that's all assuming what you've been told is true. That the kid immediately stopped talking in the doctor's office after the shot and not that he regressed in the time soon after the shot that happens to be the same age rage where kids with that disease normally regress.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 6, 2019 14:40:53 GMT -5
Not sure entirely what you mean by double dose. Did the kid miss one shot for MMR and the doctor instead gave him 2 doses of it at once? Did he miss the MMR shot and was due for the chickenpox shot so the doctor gave him both at the same time? Those are two very different things. With one being wildly different from protocol. The doctor gave him 2 doses at once. Double the normal amount in the syringe. That was incredibly stupid. Immunization doesn’t work like that. More isn’t better. That is a physician error.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Mar 6, 2019 14:47:26 GMT -5
Not sure entirely what you mean by double dose. Did the kid miss one shot for MMR and the doctor instead gave him 2 doses of it at once? Did he miss the MMR shot and was due for the chickenpox shot so the doctor gave him both at the same time? Those are two very different things. With one being wildly different from protocol. The doctor gave him 2 doses at once. Double the normal amount in the syringe. No doctor worth his salt would do that. It doesn't make any sense!
|
|
busymom
Distinguished Associate
Why is the rum always gone? Oh...that's why.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 21:09:36 GMT -5
Posts: 28,436
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://cdn.nickpic.host/images/IPauJ5.jpg","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0D317F
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0D317F
|
Post by busymom on Mar 6, 2019 14:58:07 GMT -5
The doctor gave him 2 doses at once. Double the normal amount in the syringe. No doctor worth his salt would do that. It doesn't make any sense! I never said this doctor was smart. But, that's what he told the mom he was going to do, and apparently he did it.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,318
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 6, 2019 15:06:04 GMT -5
That does not prove it was the vaccine though. It's a correlation based on a personal account that only two people were there to witness and only one is talking. Correlation does not equal cause.
I can't prove it's NOT because there is no way to prove a negative and this is why ancedotes are a bad way to judge the efficacy and safety of vaccines. It could have also been what he ate that day, something in the air, God, aliens or the flying noodle monster because nobody can 100% prove that isn't true either.
I feel terrible for the mother and understand that she wants something to blame and the vaccine is the most obvious choice. That does not negate that in 30+ years of controlled studies done by independent researchers all over the globe and the current one that included 600,000 people shows that there is no direct link between vaccines and autism.
Given how much attention and research dollars this has gotten in my lifetime if there was a link to be found they would have found it by now. The idea that some mystery "other" group is targeting and hiding 30+ years of contrary evidence is absurd.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Mar 6, 2019 15:09:28 GMT -5
No doctor worth his salt would do that. It doesn't make any sense! I never said this doctor was smart. But, that's what he told the mom he was going to do, and apparently he did it. Well, he should have had his license yanked. You can't blame the vaccine companies for something this stupid doctor did.
|
|
raeoflyte
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
Posts: 14,755
|
Post by raeoflyte on Mar 6, 2019 15:52:15 GMT -5
Every parent goes through grief when facing something like this. What could we have done differently to prevent it from happening. I don't know how I would react in that exact situation, and I don't mean to lessen anyone's pain or experience, but as parents we are definitely not objective at that point. It is so easy to draw inaccurate conclusions. If your child died of measles you would question if delaying or avoiding vaccines was the correct choice. Even if we actually had proof that vaccines did cause autism, if your child died or had lifetime side affects from a disease we CAN prevent, but chose not to as a parent not only would you question it, you'd never forgive yourself.
Not vaccinating is putting not only your own kids, but immune compromised and those who are allergic or other wise medically can't vaccinate at risk of death.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Mar 6, 2019 16:05:18 GMT -5
Every parent goes through grief when facing something like this. What could we have done differently to prevent it from happening. I don't know how I would react in that exact situation, and I don't mean to lessen anyone's pain or experience, but as parents we are definitely not objective at that point. It is so easy to draw inaccurate conclusions. If your child died of measles you would question if delaying or avoiding vaccines was the correct choice. Even if we actually had proof that vaccines did cause autism, if your child died or had lifetime side affects from a disease we CAN prevent, but chose not to as a parent not only would you question it, you'd never forgive yourself. Not vaccinating is putting not only your own kids, but immune compromised and those who are allergic or other wise medically can't vaccinate at risk of death. I certainly went through grief. Was the autism the result of anoxia at birth? Should I have scheduled the C-section sooner, instead of waiting until 42 weeks? (He was very late). Should I have taken different/better vitamins? Should I have eaten better, instead of living on rotisserie chicken and green peppers, because that's all I could tolerate? Should I not have had that half-glass of Guinness per week that the doctor recommended for the minerals, late in my pregnancy? You can make yourself crazy, second-guessing yourself. What I didn't do, was blame the vaccines.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,427
|
Post by thyme4change on Mar 6, 2019 22:34:32 GMT -5
I knew I would get jumped on. Agree to disagree. Have you watched the movie? Why not space out vaccinations? Why can’t we question this? Why the big ass jump of autism? Have any of you researched how the costs of development disabilities are costing school districts here and around the world? It has jumped the last thirty years. I guess this is going to be the new normal. The CDC can do no wrong. Uh huh. Citizens can sue drug companies for everything but vaccines. What the hell is wrong with that? Taxpayers are paying for vaccine injuries. Billion dollar industry with no liability. Bullshit. It could be our shitty diets. They have seriously deteriorated over the past 30 years. They are researching the effect of gut bacteria of pregnant women on their babies. That is one of a thousand things that has changed in our society. They have disproved the link between vaccines and autism so many times. Let's randomly blame something else for a while. Just to mix it up a bit.
|
|
seriousthistime
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 20:27:07 GMT -5
Posts: 4,733
|
Post by seriousthistime on Mar 6, 2019 23:16:51 GMT -5
Well, I just read today that some people are blaming Luke Perry's death on the flu vaccine. It's totally ridiculous, of course, but that doesn't stop some people. When my first born had his first vaccine, he ran a fever, cried inconsolably for hours and hours, would not nurse, and I rocked him and rocked him until he finally slept from exhaustion. When it was time for the second shot, I told my very counterculture pediatrician that he had a bad reaction with the first, and I didn't want more vaccines for him. The doc asked about the reaction and said that in the scheme of things it wasn't as bad as some, and did I ever see a child with pertussis? And then he explained to me about what can happen if kids get these diseases they vaccinate against. We agreed on a modified vaccination schedule. And my son grew to become a healthy adult without autism. Although he was a PITA teenager, which I totally blame on the vaccines. My younger two kids had all vaccines on schedule. My daughter was a PITA from age 3 until about 23. My younger son was the dream kid and still is. Neither one has autism, although if there's a family connection we've got that link.
|
|
NoNamePerson
Distinguished Associate
Is There Anybody OUT There?
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 17:03:17 GMT -5
Posts: 25,744
Location: WITNESS PROTECTION
Member is Online
|
Post by NoNamePerson on Mar 7, 2019 8:31:22 GMT -5
Well, I just read today that some people are blaming Luke Perry's death on the flu vaccine. It's totally ridiculous, of course, but that doesn't stop some people. When my first born had his first vaccine, he ran a fever, cried inconsolably for hours and hours, would not nurse, and I rocked him and rocked him until he finally slept from exhaustion. When it was time for the second shot, I told my very counterculture pediatrician that he had a bad reaction with the first, and I didn't want more vaccines for him. The doc asked about the reaction and said that in the scheme of things it wasn't as bad as some, and did I ever see a child with pertussis? And then he explained to me about what can happen if kids get these diseases they vaccinate against. We agreed on a modified vaccination schedule. And my son grew to become a healthy adult without autism. Although he was a PITA teenager, which I totally blame on the vaccines. My younger two kids had all vaccines on schedule. My daughter was a PITA from age 3 until about 23. My younger son was the dream kid and still is. Neither one has autism, although if there's a family connection we've got that link. Well, surely you didn't think you should miss the PITA teenager when the rest of us had to go thru it I think I would have been a tad concerned if mine hadn't been a PITA given the genes he inherited!! Of course I'm talking about his dad's genes.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Mar 8, 2019 15:07:18 GMT -5
An unvaccinated boy got Oregon’s first tetanus case in 30 years — treating him cost over $800,000 Once in care, the boy requested water but he couldn’t open his mouth, the CDC said. Diagnosed with tetanus, he was given a diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis (DTaP) vaccine. Then he was taken into a darkened room and given ear plugs to minimize stimulation, which was aggravating his spasms. He developed hypertension, his heart started beating faster and his body temperature grew to 40.5 C. The normal temperature is 37 C. Doctors administered a tracheostomy — a cut in the neck through which they could place a tube, just to help him breathe. Finally, on his 35th day in care, he could be weaned off treatment for his muscle spasms. On the 44th day, he could “tolerate sips of clear liquids” again. On his 50th day in care, he could walk 20 feet with help And yet still, after all that, “the family declined the second dose of DTaP and any other recommended immunizations.”globalnews.ca/news/5033440/oregon-boy-tetanus-unvaccinated/?utm_source=Article&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014
|
|
imawino
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 22:58:16 GMT -5
Posts: 5,359
|
Post by imawino on Mar 8, 2019 17:11:37 GMT -5
I knew I would get jumped on. Agree to disagree. Have you watched the movie? Why not space out vaccinations? Why can’t we question this? Why the big ass jump of autism? Have any of you researched how the costs of development disabilities are costing school districts here and around the world? It has jumped the last thirty years. I guess this is going to be the new normal. The CDC can do no wrong. Uh huh. Citizens can sue drug companies for everything but vaccines. What the hell is wrong with that? Taxpayers are paying for vaccine injuries. Billion dollar industry with no liability. Bullshit. You absolutely did not get jumped on. And of course you CAN question the schedule of vaccines.
But, when you (general you) do question it and people who are highly educated in the science behind vaccines and immunology answer those questions with honest to goodness well-researched facts, statistics and logic and you continue to exclaim that they are wrong and you know more - well, that's when things start to get a little crazy.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,869
|
Post by zibazinski on Mar 8, 2019 19:33:14 GMT -5
Those parents in Oregon need counseling.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 8, 2019 19:57:10 GMT -5
Those parents in Oregon need counseling. They need more than counseling. Did you read where they sewed up the kid’s cut themselves?
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,869
|
Post by zibazinski on Mar 8, 2019 20:02:58 GMT -5
Those parents in Oregon need counseling. They need more than counseling. Did you read where they sewed up the kid’s cut themselves? Yes, it seems like child endangerment. I hope taxpayers aren't stuck with that 800 k bill.
|
|
wvugurl26
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:25:30 GMT -5
Posts: 21,724
Member is Online
|
Post by wvugurl26 on Mar 8, 2019 21:11:05 GMT -5
They need more than counseling. Did you read where they sewed up the kid’s cut themselves? Yes, it seems like child endangerment. I hope taxpayers aren't stuck with that 800 k bill. You know they are. The $800k also excluded his life flight, 2 weeks inpatient rehab and all follow up care. Although I'm not sure how much follow up care was there since they still refuse to vaccinate him!
|
|
saveinla
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 2:00:29 GMT -5
Posts: 5,232
|
Post by saveinla on Mar 8, 2019 21:37:41 GMT -5
Here could be another reason for autism - www.cnn.com/2019/03/06/health/autism-depression-infection-in-utero-study/index.htmlChildren born to women who had a severe infection during pregnancy, such as sepsis, flu or pneumonia, show an increased risk of autism spectrum disorder and depression, new research finds. Yet those exposed to even a relatively minor urinary tract infection in utero also experienced an increased risk of such disorders.
Proves that there are so many other things that we don't know about our bodies.
|
|
azucena
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 13:23:14 GMT -5
Posts: 5,314
|
Post by azucena on Mar 9, 2019 22:31:26 GMT -5
|
|
finnime
Junior Associate
Be kind. Everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 7:14:35 GMT -5
Posts: 7,478
|
Post by finnime on Mar 10, 2019 4:01:15 GMT -5
|
|
NoNamePerson
Distinguished Associate
Is There Anybody OUT There?
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 17:03:17 GMT -5
Posts: 25,744
Location: WITNESS PROTECTION
Member is Online
|
Post by NoNamePerson on Mar 10, 2019 7:55:55 GMT -5
Give this guy an A++++++ for trolling of the highest order. We need him here!!!!! This is the kinda of stuff I would have started in my much younger days but alas the internet wasn't here then. So I had my neighbors wondering if I was a loon with some of the stuff I used to "make up" just to get a reaction from the ultra perfect mothers on the block.
|
|