Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 16, 2019 11:23:14 GMT -5
If you are referencing American drones patrolling the border in Mexico, you would be violating Mexico's sovereign space. Lest we forget about three thousand democrats or there about, plus a never Trumper would file a lawsuit seeking an injunction. Operators of the drones can fly them only on the U.S. side. Not hard to do. And do you think the wall is really going to be built directly on the U.S. Mexico border? If that were the case, there would be no angry Texan land owners concerned about eminent domain. Texas landowners face eminent domain land fightsIf the Rio Grande is the border between Texas, USA and Mexico, guess whose land is north of the Rio Grande?
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 16, 2019 11:33:22 GMT -5
You're not the expert? Neither am I.! And I am sure that President Trump isn't either. The concept of "The Wall" started as a talking point at rallies that was chosen because Trump could remember it and repeatedly reference it, according to former campaign managers. What was behind it was the idea of border security and further mitigating illegal immigration. This was something that was a proven winner politically with people he was trying to connect with (and it worked!) So, since he was elected on border security, border security is an issue, and we need to figure out "what the hell is going on", lets have the experts look at it. Again, from what I have read, "they" suggest a combination of things- primarily more personnel, combined with surveillance (maybe some by unarmed drones- don't know that) to direct operations, materiel, and in some areas better barriers such as fencing and walls. Regarding Schumer, Pelosi and the rest, yes, they to understand the need for secure borders. However the specific "walls" that were advocated during the Bush and Obama Admins have mostly been built. This is not the flip flop that the right leaning news media makes it out to be. Although I am not sure how good of a fence Nancy and Chuck voted to be built, the fact is we have hundreds of miles of ineffective fencing that would not stop a toddler from getting through on their own. Are u sure the fencing is ineffective...there are thousands of border security types there too, patrolling and detaining...Also it's reported that the amount of illegals entering country by crossing border is the lowest..in fact counting those illegals who are going home more then match those who a are entering...Just saying... Reported by those in the know, not u...…...or me......illegals enter country primarily by visitors over staying their visas... to expect no illegals crossing , not going to happen...When u figure in the actual cost of all these measures... like our fight against the bad guys..now approaching 6 Trillion...started with Ben Ladon...on that one , his goal to speed America toward Bankruptcy ..on that one he may be dead but on that war he won... is it really worth it...can we afford it.? Just on this shutdown of the Donalds, believe cost to country is spiraling out of control..over $20 Billion so far and climbing every day. Again, just saying.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Jan 16, 2019 11:33:47 GMT -5
Dodd-Frank, aka Lawyers Full Employment Act of 2010. Try page 574 of Alan Greenspan's book Capitalism in America.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 16, 2019 11:56:40 GMT -5
ednkris what do you mean by hate Trump because he's Trump? And did you support Obama? It doesn't matter what he does it will never be any good for the democrates. I did not vote for Obama and I was very outspoken against the ACA and how it was handled, but as far as bashing him no. The office of the president should be held in high regard no matter who is in office. For the country sake I never wanted him to fail no matter how much I disliked his policies or leadership I don't believe that is true. There was a time he made a compromise with the Democrats and was praised for it That didn't stop people criticizing what they didn't like, but he was praised for that thing.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 16, 2019 12:29:38 GMT -5
You're not the expert? Neither am I.! And I am sure that President Trump isn't either. The concept of "The Wall" started as a talking point at rallies that was chosen because Trump could remember it and repeatedly reference it, according to former campaign managers. What was behind it was the idea of border security and further mitigating illegal immigration. This was something that was a proven winner politically with people he was trying to connect with (and it worked!) So, since he was elected on border security, border security is an issue, and we need to figure out "what the hell is going on", lets have the experts look at it. Again, from what I have read, "they" suggest a combination of things- primarily more personnel, combined with surveillance (maybe some by unarmed drones- don't know that) to direct operations, materiel, and in some areas better barriers such as fencing and walls. Regarding Schumer, Pelosi and the rest, yes, they to understand the need for secure borders. However the specific "walls" that were advocated during the Bush and Obama Admins have mostly been built. This is not the flip flop that the right leaning news media makes it out to be. Although I am not sure how good of a fence Nancy and Chuck voted to be built, the fact is we have hundreds of miles of ineffective fencing that would not stop a toddler from getting through on their own. I'm not an expert on fencing, but fence experts have said that the problem with a big ass fence is the cost, and the fact that it can be tunneled under or scaled over, so it's not like we can build a fence, turn off the lights and go home. We'd still have to constantly patrol along it. Trump's example of a steel fence can be cut with a saw, so that doesn't seem very secure.
The military experts are proposing we re-enforce the existing watch stations along the border with a network of temperature and motion sensors that would notify the guards if anything human sized is moving nearby, at which point a drone could go out to investigate (not to 'count'). If humans are confirmed, the guards could go arrest them, with the drone to help pinpoint where they are. This is essentially how the military sets up perimeters in the field, where building walls haven't been a thing since the middle ages. This is the smarter, cheaper way to achieve border security, so why not try that, before blowing billions on a wall? Unless you're a politician who made a rash campaign promise?
My second question is, shouldn't we also be improving our security along our Canadian border, since more 'people of interest' (possible terrorists) were picked up trying to cross there?
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 16, 2019 12:33:45 GMT -5
Going back to the question of what it would take for Trump's dedicated followers to start questioning their devotion - I've always thought if the Fox talking heads turned on him, Trump would be toast. All the really zealous Trump supporters I know refuse to listen to any other news source other than Fox.
I'm not sure what it would take to turn the Fox talking heads against him. (The Fox news journalists have already pushed back a few times - Shepard Smith especially) - but the network knows all Trump is great business for them, pretty much a guaranteed market, so I don't know what it would take to make people like Jeanine Pirro turn on him.
I don’t watch Fox I didn't mean ALL Trump supporters watch Fox - only that the ones I know all watch Fox exclusively, and they believe Fox is the only 'true' media source. So if that media source suddenly started to criticize Trump, I think it would impact at least some of the Trump devotees who do watch Fox. (Although I'm sure there would be some devotees who just stop watching Fox, if Fox stops supporting the president).
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 16, 2019 12:36:41 GMT -5
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 16, 2019 12:47:31 GMT -5
ednkris what do you mean by hate Trump because he's Trump? And did you support Obama? It doesn't matter what he does it will never be any good for the democrates. I did not vote for Obama and I was very outspoken against the ACA and how it was handled, but as far as bashing him no. The office of the president should be held in high regard no matter who is in office. For the country sake I never wanted him to fail no matter how much I disliked his policies or leadership I agree the office of the president should be held in high regard, which is why it upsets me so much that Trump currently holds that office. Trump brings no dignity or ethics to that office. He treats our enemies as pals and our allies as enemies. His grifting is so blatant it would make a mobster blush. None of that comports with the dignity of the office.
Ask yourself if you can recall another president who bragged about his daughter's bust size or talked about how he'd 'do' her if he wasn't her dad. Or another president who held his campaign rallies in properties that he owned, and then charged back exorbitant costs to his campaign. Or one that golfed so often, always at his own resorts, where he charged back the government for exorbitant costs for the SS to lease rooms and golf carts? Can you name another president who appointed his children and SIL to important government positions, when they had no previous experience for those types of jobs - or any other president who constantly tweeted mean, incorrect, or devise tweets? Or another president who claimed both the media and the DOJ were 'enemies of the people?'
Actually, just list out for me all the names of all of Obama or either Bush's or Clinton's campaign aids who were investigated/indicted/convicted of campaign violations. That's all I'd like to see. Then explain to me why we should hold Trump in high regard, when everything about him is either sleezy, unethical, immoral, or grifty.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 16, 2019 12:50:20 GMT -5
STOP BEING SO MEAN TO trump.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 16, 2019 12:53:06 GMT -5
what do we do if the landowners on the border don't want to give or sell their land to the feds?
I thought conservatives didn't like emminent domain proceedings because they are an overreach of government power?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 16, 2019 13:10:27 GMT -5
You're not the expert? Neither am I.! And I am sure that President Trump isn't either. The concept of "The Wall" started as a talking point at rallies that was chosen because Trump could remember it and repeatedly reference it, according to former campaign managers. What was behind it was the idea of border security and further mitigating illegal immigration. This was something that was a proven winner politically with people he was trying to connect with (and it worked!) So, since he was elected on border security, border security is an issue, and we need to figure out "what the hell is going on", lets have the experts look at it. Again, from what I have read, "they" suggest a combination of things- primarily more personnel, combined with surveillance (maybe some by unarmed drones- don't know that) to direct operations, materiel, and in some areas better barriers such as fencing and walls. Regarding Schumer, Pelosi and the rest, yes, they to understand the need for secure borders. However the specific "walls" that were advocated during the Bush and Obama Admins have mostly been built. This is not the flip flop that the right leaning news media makes it out to be. Although I am not sure how good of a fence Nancy and Chuck voted to be built, the fact is we have hundreds of miles of ineffective fencing that would not stop a toddler from getting through on their own. there is no fence on Earth that will survive a ladder.
any METAL fence out there won't survive a battery powered cutoff saw or, in the case of wire, loppers and gloves.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 16, 2019 13:12:01 GMT -5
1. I never believed Mexico would pay for the wall. How do we make them? My arguement is we withold the money we send them yearly until we pay for the wall. Money they do not receive which is basically a waste of our money, pays for it, hence Mexico, in a roundabout way pays for it. 2. I think if you have followed my posting over the years, I have talked about RINOS. Congress is full of them, who are afraid of standing up to the democrats on anything.
Yes, it should have happened in the first 60 days of his Administration but there were so many damn Republicans still in the never Trump club as they never thought he would last, and if they backed him, their money donors would them. Or tax the money they send to Mexico sorry.....what the heck are you talking about?
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Jan 16, 2019 14:13:35 GMT -5
what do we do if the landowners on the border don't want to give or sell their land to the feds? I thought conservatives didn't like emminent domain proceedings because they are an overreach of government power? Only when Democrats do it.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 16, 2019 14:15:05 GMT -5
what do we do if the landowners on the border don't want to give or sell their land to the feds? I thought conservatives didn't like emminent domain proceedings because they are an overreach of government power? Only when Democrats do it. I guess so. What if I framed it this way: The government wants to seize about 3,000 miles of privately owned land for a construction project. Should they be allowed to do it?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 16, 2019 14:20:36 GMT -5
Although I am not sure how good of a fence Nancy and Chuck voted to be built, the fact is we have hundreds of miles of ineffective fencing that would not stop a toddler from getting through on their own. there is no fence on Earth that will survive a ladder.
any METAL fence out there won't survive a battery powered cutoff saw or, in the case of wire, loppers and gloves.
Not sure why we would not have sounding devices along the fence to signal the border patrol of any attempt. Not sure how long a battery operated saw would last, and they would have to invest in a lot of titanium blades. How many batteries would it take to cut a hole through the fence? Maybe we should outlaw power saws internationally, just like guns. Wire is a waste of time at the border.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 16, 2019 14:22:56 GMT -5
Or tax the money they send to Mexico sorry.....what the heck are you talking about? Wondering if she is referencing all the money sent back to Mexico by the banks, and money order companies by migrants here in the state to support families there......
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 16, 2019 14:34:00 GMT -5
1. I never believed Mexico would pay for the wall. How do we make them? My arguement is we withold the money we send them yearly until we pay for the wall. Money they do not receive which is basically a waste of our money, pays for it, hence Mexico, in a roundabout way pays for it. 2. I think if you have followed my posting over the years, I have talked about RINOS. Congress is full of them, who are afraid of standing up to the democrats on anything.
Yes, it should have happened in the first 60 days of his Administration but there were so many damn Republicans still in the never Trump club as they never thought he would last, and if they backed him, their money donors would them. Or tax the money they send to Mexico Are you saying that people should not spend the money they EARNED through toil and hard labour, however they want?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 16, 2019 14:40:05 GMT -5
Wondering if she is referencing all the money sent back to Mexico by the banks, and money order companies by migrants here in the state to support families there...... Are you not allowed to do with your money what you wish? Not my ox to gore. I was simply giving dj a thought on what she might have been referencing. That might not even have been what she was referencing. We all know they do it. Heck, back in the sixties the Eastern European immigrants who came here legally and worked in the steel mills in Gary Indiana sent money back to the homeland on a regular basis. A few of them even moved back after retirement and took their social security and pension checks with them. It is all legal.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 16, 2019 14:53:39 GMT -5
Or tax the money they send to Mexico sorry.....what the heck are you talking about? Well it starts with understanding who are "they". That would be those people who have a family connection to Mexico and therefore send money back to relatives there. This "they" should not be confused with people who have family connections to Canada or European countries and send money to them. Those people will not have a special tax placed on them.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 16, 2019 14:55:41 GMT -5
Although I am not sure how good of a fence Nancy and Chuck voted to be built, the fact is we have hundreds of miles of ineffective fencing that would not stop a toddler from getting through on their own. I'm not an expert on fencing, but fence experts have said that the problem with a big ass fence is the cost, and the fact that it can be tunneled under or scaled over, so it's not like we can build a fence, turn off the lights and go home. We'd still have to constantly patrol along it. Trump's example of a steel fence can be cut with a saw, so that doesn't seem very secure.
The military experts are proposing we re-enforce the existing watch stations along the border with a network of temperature and motion sensors that would notify the guards if anything human sized is moving nearby, at which point a drone could go out to investigate (not to 'count'). If humans are confirmed, the guards could go arrest them, with the drone to help pinpoint where they are. This is essentially how the military sets up perimeters in the field, where building walls haven't been a thing since the middle ages. This is the smarter, cheaper way to achieve border security, so why not try that, before blowing billions on a wall? Unless you're a politician who made a rash campaign promise?
My second question is, shouldn't we also be improving our security along our Canadian border, since more 'people of interest' (possible terrorists) were picked up trying to cross there?
We're not paying for it.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jan 16, 2019 15:06:28 GMT -5
We aren't either.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jan 16, 2019 15:24:22 GMT -5
Although I am not sure how good of a fence Nancy and Chuck voted to be built, the fact is we have hundreds of miles of ineffective fencing that would not stop a toddler from getting through on their own. I'm not an expert on fencing, but fence experts have said that the problem with a big ass fence is the cost, and the fact that it can be tunneled under or scaled over, so it's not like we can build a fence, turn off the lights and go home. We'd still have to constantly patrol along it. Trump's example of a steel fence can be cut with a saw, so that doesn't seem very secure.
The military experts are proposing we re-enforce the existing watch stations along the border with a network of temperature and motion sensors that would notify the guards if anything human sized is moving nearby, at which point a drone could go out to investigate (not to 'count'). If humans are confirmed, the guards could go arrest them, with the drone to help pinpoint where they are. This is essentially how the military sets up perimeters in the field, where building walls haven't been a thing since the middle ages. This is the smarter, cheaper way to achieve border security, so why not try that, before blowing billions on a wall? Unless you're a politician who made a rash campaign promise?
My second question is, shouldn't we also be improving our security along our Canadian border, since more 'people of interest' (possible terrorists) were picked up trying to cross there?
The only “illegal” I know personally came across the Canadian border. Build that wall!!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 16, 2019 15:26:10 GMT -5
You're not the expert? Neither am I.! And I am sure that President Trump isn't either. The concept of "The Wall" started as a talking point at rallies that was chosen because Trump could remember it and repeatedly reference it, according to former campaign managers. What was behind it was the idea of border security and further mitigating illegal immigration. This was something that was a proven winner politically with people he was trying to connect with (and it worked!) So, since he was elected on border security, border security is an issue, and we need to figure out "what the hell is going on", lets have the experts look at it. Again, from what I have read, "they" suggest a combination of things- primarily more personnel, combined with surveillance (maybe some by unarmed drones- don't know that) to direct operations, materiel, and in some areas better barriers such as fencing and walls. Regarding Schumer, Pelosi and the rest, yes, they to understand the need for secure borders. However the specific "walls" that were advocated during the Bush and Obama Admins have mostly been built. This is not the flip flop that the right leaning news media makes it out to be. Although I am not sure how good of a fence Nancy and Chuck voted to be built, the fact is we have hundreds of miles of ineffective fencing that would not stop a toddler from getting through on their own. She’s got a great fence around her home.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jan 16, 2019 15:31:58 GMT -5
sorry.....what the heck are you talking about? Wondering if she is referencing all the money sent back to Mexico by the banks, and money order companies by migrants here in the state to support families there...... Yeah, we have quite a few friends that own property in Mexico. My BIL built on land my MIL gave him. A Professor my DH went to college with. A friend that Teaches in CHicago, her DH is a contractor. A friend of DH’s from college owns all or part of 3 properties in MX. Its not like all the $$ Americans send to MX is from undocumented Aliens. The ones with the most means are Documented, and still spending $$ there.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 16, 2019 15:33:00 GMT -5
Interesting thought. But they better not call it "Stairway to Heaven" or they'll land smack in the middle of a never ending lawsuit:
"Led Zeppelin must go back on trial in a lawsuit that accuses the legendary rock band of ripping off the intro to its rock anthem "Stairway to Heaven" from a little-known 1960s instrumental, a federal appeals court ordered on Friday.
The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco overturned a 2016 jury verdict that found that the British band did not steal any original music from "Taurus," a 1968 track by the Los Angeles band Spirit. ..."
www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/music/led-zeppelin-ordered-go-back-trial-stairway-heaven-copyright-lawsuit-n914831
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jan 16, 2019 15:37:17 GMT -5
Although I am not sure how good of a fence Nancy and Chuck voted to be built, the fact is we have hundreds of miles of ineffective fencing that would not stop a toddler from getting through on their own. She’s got a great fence around her home. as do I. what's your point?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 16, 2019 15:50:27 GMT -5
the border patrol is reduced to playing "Whack a Mole?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 16, 2019 16:05:27 GMT -5
She’s got a great fence around her home. as do I. what's your point? Someone might dig a tunnel under it to smuggle in millions of dollars of drugs or fly over the top of it to get drugs into your house! And people might overstay an invite for a gathering at your house when you let them in through a gate. Oh wait, sorry. There is no logical connection between fences around a residence and the southern border.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 16, 2019 16:10:38 GMT -5
I have a fence for legal and safety reasons. I have a pool, so my fence keeps toddlers from walking up the street and falling in my pool. Not sure how often that happens, but I follow the law.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 16, 2019 16:19:29 GMT -5
sorry.....what the heck are you talking about? Wondering if she is referencing all the money sent back to Mexico by the banks, and money order companies by migrants here in the state to support families there...... I say we do it, as long as Melanie and her parent have to pay a tax to send any money (or expensive gifts) back to their friends and family in Bosnirubicastan.
Them and every other person in American who attempts to send money out of the country.
Why should that money to go foreigners when we can steal it and use it here? #MAGA
While we're at it, if an American company has foreign branches, we need to be siphoning off a good 25 - 40% of those business transfers, too.
If we're going to be pirates, we should be the most excellent, successful pirates we can be.
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