phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Jan 15, 2019 19:23:41 GMT -5
And generally speaking, they were mostly wrong - they were very strongly embedded in the British heritage and had trouble letting go. (Although the unlimited lifetime is still strong in the eastern universities - Yale and Harvard have multi-century endowments that control $billions).
Yes, our govt paid it's bills, etc. The Income Tax system started in 1913, prior to that we didn't have many international bills. As for the "worker and owner shared equally", I was fortunate to have experienced that for 35 years. And I wish that my grandkids could have that same experience - but today it is likely to be 5 yr gigs. As for Trump being the opposite - I don't see that at all. IMO, he was just what was needed to pull this country out of it's free-fall to failure.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Jan 15, 2019 19:28:07 GMT -5
lol, thanks. I know you francophones don't get much amusement up there this time of year.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 15, 2019 19:33:20 GMT -5
lol, thanks. I know you francophones don't get much amusement up there this time of year. As usual, you don't know what you're talking about. Been up here at this time of year much? Perhaps you think we're huddled in our igloos, surviving on whale blubber?
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Jan 15, 2019 20:04:16 GMT -5
lol, I thought that you rendered it into candle wax and whale oil for your lamp?
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 15, 2019 20:11:31 GMT -5
So what I'm seeing is that for Phil, the answer is "nothing" will make him stop being a trumper.
He's answered everything but the question I asked, so far.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jan 15, 2019 20:17:33 GMT -5
So what I'm seeing is that for Phil, the answer is "nothing" will make him stop being a trumper. He's answered everything but the question I asked, so far. Touché!
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jan 15, 2019 20:26:48 GMT -5
I told them on my facebook, think of how they hate Hillary and Obama. Then think what they would do if either of them was doing the stuff trump is. They would be up in arms and more. Just apply his crazy crap in that manner they would go ballistic then they would understand what he is doing that is batsh** crazy.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 15, 2019 20:40:43 GMT -5
The Americans had the innovation to move all of those things to a new country and apply them to mankind - largely because they were free of the constraints of a cumbersome financial system, free of the constraints of licensing, and free of space constraints. Remember, the US ended just past the Big River, it was nothing but unclaimed space as far as you could see to the west. You could farm it, mine it, drill it, build on it, anything. That really shows how important sensible regulations are (as opposed to some guy writing 22,000 pages of tripe just cuz he is pissed at someone with an opposing view). You understand that they were British, French, Irish etc when they came here right? Immigrants. And it wasn't unclaimed space, there were Aboriginal and Spanish/Mexican people living here. So I guess in your mind they weren't immigrants, they were conquerers. From what I'm reading you are proud of the American history of concurring the country and like the idea of keeping it.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 15, 2019 20:43:48 GMT -5
So what I'm seeing is that for Phil, the answer is "nothing" will make him stop being a trumper. He's answered everything but the question I asked, so far. I think he really did answer your question. Very thoroughly.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jan 15, 2019 21:01:59 GMT -5
The US rapidly became greatest society in the world - and in only 240 years. Innovation - steam, railroads, telegraph, radio, vast spaces, natural resources, right to own property, laws, a financial system, freedoms. Capitalism spurted & flourished when a society became free of the space & regulatory constraints of European Society. Capitalism is highly dependent upon Creative Destruction. Whenever an innovation is actualized, it replaces/destroys entire industries. To build cars, you needed to destroy the horse industry, the jobs of harness makers, farriers, livery barns. Trains destroyed the stagecoach businesses. Electricity replaced lanterns, gas engines in factories, steam power in factories. Milking machines displaced milkmaids. Refrigerators replaced ice chests (daily ice delivery). Automation/Computers replaced all kinds of menial laboring jobs, house work, cooking, etc. And 1000s of other examples of innovations that destroyed/replaced the 'old' ways. And in nearly all cases, years later the new generation would not want to go back to the old ways. Politically, the US has been moving toward Socialism - avoiding innovation, trying to keep the status-quo, avoiding the creative destruction of existing systems. A recent example is the financial system, the 22,000 Dodd Frank regulations almost stopped the flow of capital that feeds innovation & business. Another eg is climate control - the Left wants to write a carbon-tax Law. So - if the price of getting rid of anti-business, anti-capitalist, regulatory overreach requires that I hear a few vulgarities, crude remarks, and some exaggerations, I'm happy to pay the price. As for the Far-Left count of 'actual' lies (what is it, about 6000 now?) - I have no trouble with that at all. Sorry folks, a misstatement and an exaggeration do not count as lies. I'm very pleased with what Pres Trump is doing for us - but I am saddened that most people seem to be unable to grasp that. um, with all due respect, where would you place the innovation of wind turbines? just asking, that's a major point of contention where I live right now, although the debate has been happening since before I moved here. the people opposing it are not those you would normally accuse of socialism.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 15, 2019 21:02:47 GMT -5
Well, yes, but he didn't have the stones to come right out and say it. 😉
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jan 15, 2019 21:04:59 GMT -5
So what I'm seeing is that for Phil, the answer is "nothing" will make him stop being a trumper. He's answered everything but the question I asked, so far. I think he really did answer your question. Very thoroughly. The majority of the trumpets are old white men who want to keep power in the hands of old white men. Of course they don’t care about a little sexual assault, disrespect of the sacrifices of military families, dishonesty, corruption and outright incompetence. Agree with laterbloomer.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 15, 2019 21:07:11 GMT -5
Well, yes, but he didn't have the stones to come right out and say it. 😉 Well he's not a total masochist! I'm impressed he posted on this thread at all.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 15, 2019 21:09:52 GMT -5
I think he really did answer your question. Very thoroughly. The majority of the trumpets are old white men who want to keep power in the hands of old white men. Of course they don’t care about a little sexual assault, disrespect of the sacrifices of military families, dishonesty, corruption and outright incompetence. Agree with laterbloomer. There's a bunch of white women in there too. The rich ones. The ones the current system works for. Sort of...
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jan 15, 2019 21:20:22 GMT -5
The majority of the trumpets are old white men who want to keep power in the hands of old white men. Of course they don’t care about a little sexual assault, disrespect of the sacrifices of military families, dishonesty, corruption and outright incompetence. Agree with laterbloomer. There's a bunch of white women in there too. The rich ones. The ones the current system works for. Sort of... Yes, but they aren’t a majority.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 15, 2019 21:21:01 GMT -5
The majority of the trumpets are old white men who want to keep power in the hands of old white men. Of course they don’t care about a little sexual assault, disrespect of the sacrifices of military families, dishonesty, corruption and outright incompetence. Agree with laterbloomer. There's a bunch of white women in there too. The rich ones. The ones the current system works for. Sort of... There are also a lot of struggling white men and women trump supporters too. They just don't have the knowledge and ability to know they are being played by trump.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 15, 2019 21:21:33 GMT -5
Well, yes, but he didn't have the stones to come right out and say it. 😉 Well he's not a total masochist! I'm impressed he posted on this thread at all. Well shit. If he's gonna support that mf'er for all time, he should at least own it! Lol.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 15, 2019 21:23:52 GMT -5
There's a bunch of white women in there too. The rich ones. The ones the current system works for. Sort of... There are also a lot of struggling white men and women trump supporters too. They just don't have the knowledge and ability to know they are being played by trump. Someone posted an article titled something like The Lowest White Man. It hurt my heart but I think it explains it. (I still know there was voting booth tampering even with these closet white supremists)
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jan 15, 2019 21:30:11 GMT -5
There's a bunch of white women in there too. The rich ones. The ones the current system works for. Sort of... There are also a lot of struggling white men and women trump supporters too. They just don't have the knowledge and ability to know they are being played by trump. And a lot of them are simply racists. They loved his attacks on “political correctness”.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Jan 15, 2019 21:32:44 GMT -5
Agree, way too much debate about 'nothing' - and not enough about real issues. Eg, we debate the Wall based on cost, morality, racism, drug trade, criminality, yada - and avoid discussing the problem solution, ie, citizen management, a country of only 300 million people cannot simply open the border with to billions other people, the physical space, the food supply, services, is not sustainable over a long period (50 or 100 years). BTW, cost is about 5 hours of the US budget, we take in that much money before lunch, every day, every year - not really an important part of the decision. As for Trumps friendships with other national leaders - I think he should do more of it, it's part of his job to maintain contact with the leaders of the other nations, especially the not-so-friendly ones. And if he can mold some of those contacts into friendships, so much the better.
Coal industry. My feeling is that we should stop mining coal, both for US use and for export. We need a workable plan to stop the burning of fossil fuel world wide. Cleaning up the US is only slightly helpful, the atmosphere quickly mixes and we get a world atmosphere in just a matter of weeks. So our answer must be global, it must be something that the other 190 nations can afford and can implement. As for the Liberal push for clean energy - I fear that it is hopelessly misguided - a few carbon-tax laws (that can't be enforced) and some solar panels? We need actual meaningful changes in our approach to energy generation, some meetings in Paris and a paper-accord are neither timely nor helpful.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jan 15, 2019 21:33:46 GMT -5
There was a quote from I think last week, where a orange cult member stated that she was only mad at him because he wasn't hurting the people he was supposed to hurt. As long as he hates & hurts the same people they hate & want hurt, then they'll keep supporting him. There's an underlying cruelty & bully/mean aspect to the hard core believers.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 15, 2019 21:50:48 GMT -5
Agree, way too much debate about 'nothing' - and not enough about real issues. Eg, we debate the Wall based on cost, morality, racism, drug trade, criminality, yada - and avoid discussing the problem solution, ie, citizen management, a country of only 300 million people cannot simply open the border with to billions other people, the physical space, the food supply, services, is not sustainable over a long period (50 or 100 years). BTW, cost is about 5 hours of the US budget, we take in that much money before lunch, every day, every year - not really an important part of the decision. As for Trumps friendships with other national leaders - I think he should do more of it, it's part of his job to maintain contact with the leaders of the other nations, especially the not-so-friendly ones. And if he can mold some of those contacts into friendships, so much the better. Coal industry. My feeling is that we should stop mining coal, both for US use and for export. We need a workable plan to stop the burning of fossil fuel world wide. Cleaning up the US is only slightly helpful, the atmosphere quickly mixes and we get a world atmosphere in just a matter of weeks. So our answer must be global, it must be something that the other 190 nations can afford and can implement. As for the Liberal push for clean energy - I fear that it is hopelessly misguided - a few carbon-tax laws (that can't be enforced) and some solar panels? We need actual meaningful changes in our approach to energy generation, some meetings in Paris and a paper-accord are neither timely nor helpful. Okay let's try this one point at a time (God I hate doing long posts) Citizen management - So what is the limit of what your country can support? What is the net increase in population with immigration vs out migration, death etc? Do you know these statistics or is this a case of truthiness? Trump's friendships - Do you think friendships with Putin and Kim are going to promote the Democracy and Capitalism you claim to value? A workable plan to stop burning fossil fuel - Do you think Trump is on board with that plan? By the way, what would a workable plan be? How does this belief jive with your preference for reduced regulations? Do you think people, businesses, corporations will reduce their pollution output without strict regulations?
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Jan 15, 2019 21:59:52 GMT -5
I agree with everything Phil said. I would like to add most on here don't like president Trump because he is Trump. He could cure cancer and they hate him for putting oncologist out of work. Most of the issues that is brought up is here say no proof with real evidence, or pure making a mounting out of a mole hill again why oh because he is Trump. Some don't like him because of ideology.
Now if Meuller had proof Trump took an actual bribe I would be right there agreeing to impeach, but we all know there is no such bribe. I like the tax cuts, you know the where we all got a tax cut. I like reducing regulations on business. I love the fact he wants us to have a relationship with Russia in fact I think all the super powers should get to get together and help the rest of the world you know like what the failing united nations is supposed to do. I really love how he calls out the left leaning media.
It boggles,my mind on people,instead of supporting their president they are wringing your hands oh we got him this time Oooh here's another investigation, Oooh another one is going to spill the beans. It actually pathetic and unamerican.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 15, 2019 22:04:40 GMT -5
ednkris what do you mean by hate Trump because he's Trump? And did you support Obama?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 15, 2019 22:07:57 GMT -5
There are also a lot of struggling white men and women trump supporters too. They just don't have the knowledge and ability to know they are being played by trump. Someone posted an article titled something like The Lowest White Man. It hurt my heart but I think it explains it. (I still know there was voting booth tampering even with these closet white supremists) Me.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 15, 2019 22:12:08 GMT -5
It actually pathetic and unamerican.
No, it's the most American thing of all.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 15, 2019 22:17:40 GMT -5
I agree with everything Phil said. I would like to add most on here don't like president Trump because he is Trump. He could cure cancer and they hate him for putting oncologist out of work. Most of the issues that is brought up is here say no proof with real evidence, or pure making a mounting out of a mole hill again why oh because he is Trump. Some don't like him because of ideology. Now if Meuller had proof Trump took an actual bribe I would be right there agreeing to impeach, but we all know there is no such bribe. I like the tax cuts, you know the where we all got a tax cut. I like reducing regulations on business. I love the fact he wants us to have a relationship with Russia in fact I think all the super powers should get to get together and help the rest of the world you know like what the failing united nations is supposed to do. I really love how he calls out the left leaning media. It boggles,my mind on people,instead of supporting their president they are wringing your hands oh we got him this time Oooh here's another investigation, Oooh another one is going to spill the beans. It actually pathetic and unamerican. I lived for many years in the metro New York area. I have loathed trump and his family's practices and ethics since the mid-1970s, probably longer than you've been wearing long pants. trump's unethical business practices were well known even back then. trump's amoral behavior over the years has only caused me to loathe him even more.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 15, 2019 22:41:16 GMT -5
"It boggles,my mind on people,instead of supporting their president they are wringing your hands oh we got him this time Oooh here's another investigation, Oooh another one is going to spill the beans. It actually pathetic and unamerican."
I'm not American and I call him for what he is.....a dumbass.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jan 15, 2019 22:44:47 GMT -5
I agree with everything Phil said. I would like to add most on here don't like president Trump because he is Trump. He could cure cancer and they hate him for putting oncologist out of work. Most of the issues that is brought up is here say no proof with real evidence, or pure making a mounting out of a mole hill again why oh because he is Trump. Some don't like him because of ideology. Now if Meuller had proof Trump took an actual bribe I would be right there agreeing to impeach, but we all know there is no such bribe. I like the tax cuts, you know the where we all got a tax cut. I like reducing regulations on business. I love the fact he wants us to have a relationship with Russia in fact I think all the super powers should get to get together and help the rest of the world you know like what the failing united nations is supposed to do. I really love how he calls out the left leaning media. It boggles,my mind on people,instead of supporting their president they are wringing your hands oh we got him this time Oooh here's another investigation, Oooh another one is going to spill the beans. It actually pathetic and unamerican. I lived for many years in the metro New York area. I have loathed trump and his family's practices and ethics since the mid-1970s, probably longer than you've been wearing long pants. trump's unethical business practices were well known even back then. trump's amoral behavior over the years has only caused me to loathe him even more. There is no secret to Donald Trump, for those who have had their eyes open. He has been a disgustingly vile, corrupt, spiteful, narcissistic, self-aggrandizing little sh** for decades. The loathing of him goes back way more than three years. It is only the willfully blind and stupid who support him on a personal level.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 15, 2019 22:51:27 GMT -5
Trump is stupid to the core, while pretending to be smart. Trumpers fell for it.
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