Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 25, 2018 11:33:31 GMT -5
The media's habitual distorting of the truth vexes me to no end, as does its damnable tendency to magnify insignificant issues and ignore significant ones. Most of us are aware that the MSM circa 2018 is interested in drawing eyeballs to articles, serving various government, corporate, and private interests, and not to inform the electorate or provide perspective as per their original mandate. Yet even in 2018, the greatest media skeptics among us can still be confounded by the depth of the newsmedia's myopia, and by their unflagging ability to persuade otherwise rational people that a pebble is bigger than a mountain. No news story in 2018 exemplifies this more perfectly than media coverage of the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. If you're not aware of it, simply type "Jamal Khashoggi" into any search engine and behold what surely amounts to tens or perhaps hundreds of millions of man hours of media "reporting", speculation, analysis, condemnation, etc. Our own board, unfailingly devoted to follow where the media leads, has featured several discussions on the topic. I recently stumbled on this article by Ms. Caitlin Johnstone, which addresses the more general topic of media/public fixation with conspiracy theories, but includes the following excerpts concerning the Khashoggi affair in particular (bold by me): [U.S. President Donald] Trump’s alleged opposition has responded with melodramatic outrage [to the White House's standing with the House of Saud], as though a US president continuing to stand by Saudi Arabia in the face of horrific acts of violence is somehow new and unprecedented and not standard operating procedure for decades. Dismembering a journalist while he’s still alive would be a fairly typical Tuesday afternoon for the Saudi government and would not rank anywhere near the top ten most evil things this government has done, but because it involves America and a conspiracy it’s a sexy story that everyone laps up. Add in the fact that Trump is more blunt and forthcoming about American depravity and you’ve got yourself a yarn.
...
And amid all the fist-shaking and rending of garments about the killing of one man by the Saudi government, a far less magnetic story has been published (link) saying that about 84,701 Yemeni children under the age of five were starved to death between April 2015 and October 2018. And I say “were starved to death” instead of “have starved to death” because their starvation is the direct result of a blockade and relentless violence by Saudi Arabia.
The lack of any sense of proportion in response to the Khashoggi case compared to the destruction of civilian lives in Yemen has been roundly criticized by anyone with a public platform and open eyes, and rightly so; obviously a government murdering a journalist in cold blood would be a terrible thing, but to hold that as more worthy of attention than the anguished deaths of untold tens of thousands is obscene. I would very much like to emphasize the word 'obscene' here. As in: not only misguided and irresponsible, but so offensive to the (proper) function of the newsmedia that it indicts the MSM's credibility as an institution. We can't change the newsmedia, but we can control what we read and what we discuss. If there be any goodness and decency left in YMAM, the name "Jamal Khashoggi" will never again appear on these hallowed pages except in contexts where it is acknowledged to be the name of a man supremely irrelevant to: US relations with Saudi Arabia, US relations with Turkey, US relations with Iran, UN foreign policy in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia's human rights record, and fuzzy snow leopard cubs. As an added incentive to read the full article: it bashes you-know-who. Irresistible, delicious red meat for YMAMers. Don't miss out. ETA: A special shout out to billisonboard , whose suggestion that Mr. Khashoggi be Time's "Man of the Year" made me want to drive ice picks into my temples, and to the 5-6 backers who either liked or seconded his suggestion.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Nov 25, 2018 11:54:30 GMT -5
You know what's truly obscene, Virgil? It's that Trump won't do one.effing.thing to SA about Khashoggi because they line his pockets. Trump's personal wealth is more important to him than anything, or anyone, else. It is so beyond disgusting it makes me sick to my stomach.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 25, 2018 12:02:37 GMT -5
the thought that occurs to me is that Trump probably longs for running things like SA does.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 25, 2018 12:04:36 GMT -5
Jamal Khashoggi Isn't Important Very true.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Nov 25, 2018 12:09:59 GMT -5
<<ETA: A special shout out to billisonboard , whose suggestion that Mr. Khashoggi be Time's "Man of the Year" made me want to drive ice picks into my temples, and to the 5-6 dittoheads who either liked or seconded his suggestion.>> Allow me to be the first to offer you the ice picks, in that case. As a freelance writer and former journalist with a major newspaper, where Khashoggi's murder fits in the Saudi Arabian litany of horrors is not something I can easily judge. It's too long a list of crimes committed by a country whose leadership uses violence and fear to enforce rule, with total disregard for human suffering on any level and full immunity from punishment because of their financial standing.
That you would have the gall to say his death does not matter is one big fat ugly swing at freedom of speech and the right to hold an opinion, and one you can take because of your position on this board. That this president would disregard his own intelligence reports on the matter proves, as Moon stated, what lines his pockets matters far more than what immeasurable little humanity may remain in his soul.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Nov 25, 2018 12:16:31 GMT -5
Jamal Khashoggi Isn't Important Very true. And very sad. If it were one of Trump's entitled brats, I'm sure it would matter *some* then!
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Nov 25, 2018 12:25:29 GMT -5
Virgil might fail to observe that Jamal Khashoggi stands in as two of very important things in the US Constitution that have been neglected by this administration and it’s actions. It is hard to decide which one is more important: him as an individual, member of the American society so to speak and his right to life and liberty in pursuit of happiness or the other, member of the press. Now, was he killed because he was an American or was he killed because he was a member of the press? But to get back to it: is his death more important than the death of 84000 and some children that perished in another part of the world? I’d say no, they are equally relevant but such is life: shit happens! Somehow I doubt thta Times is gonna pick said kids as “Persons of the Year” so I believe that billisonboard was just offering his idea and those that seconded or agreed with his choice might have similar takes on the subject. Now, you could get of your high horse, put down the judgemental tea and give us your insight! ( I’m assuming Jamal Khashoggi will not be on that list since he is unimportant)
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 25, 2018 13:07:15 GMT -5
So Virgil, are you arguing that no one can be angry about Khashoggi because we've collectively ignored the deaths of tens of thousands of Yemini kids, so we would be hypocrites if we whined about Khashoggi?
Can't we be pissed about both? My hope is that Khashoggi is the straw that broke the camel's back - that we seize on that to pry open the nasty truth about how Saudi Arabia has become radicalized in the last few years by their new Prince, blockading Qatar, engaging in war against Yemin, and murdering journalists who speak out against them, like Khashoggi. Maybe we'll finalize realize that we buy more oil from Canada than we do Saudi Arabia, and that the US makes more of our own oil that Saud Arabia does. Maybe we'll finally stop toadying to a country that is clearly going off the rails into yet another tyrannical dictatorship.
We can't do it, however, with Trump as president, since he's willing to excuse whatever Saudi Arabia does by insisting that the King and his crazy ass Prince said they didn't do it, 'vehemently' - and therefore, we have to take them at their word. Maybe it's time to run our own wanna be dictator our of office, and then cut of our ties with Saudi Arabia until they depose the tyrannical government and decide to rejoin civil society?
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Nov 25, 2018 13:51:43 GMT -5
Maybe Khashoggi's murder matters because it shows that the long-awaited succession between generations has been won by exactly the kind of reckless individual that one could expect from a field of two dozen serious candidates and several hundred no-real-chancers. Quite frankly, given the rules of the game, someone as don't-give-a-crap-what-you-think as MbS was pretty much guaranteed to emerge as the victor. The real question is how long the house of Saud will last.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 25, 2018 14:19:39 GMT -5
"ETA: A special shout out to billisonboard , whose suggestion that Mr. Khashoggi be Time's "Man of the Year" made me want to drive ice picks into my temples, and to the 5-6 dittoheads who either liked or seconded his suggestion."Here you go,Virgil. Knock yourself out. And thanks for yet another long-winded lecture on how we should think, feel, and post.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 25, 2018 14:23:30 GMT -5
I honestly couldn't care less about him one way or the other.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 25, 2018 14:24:21 GMT -5
Some thug got killed by other thugs in a middle eastern country. And that is NEWS? Oh ok then, lol
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 25, 2018 14:25:12 GMT -5
I honestly couldn't care less about him one way or the other. Thanks for sharing.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 25, 2018 14:26:13 GMT -5
The violence against Yemen is the reason I think we should stop selling weapons and bombs to Saudi Arabia. The journalist is the symptom.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 25, 2018 14:43:58 GMT -5
"The media's habitual distorting of the truth vexes me to no end, as does its damnable tendency to magnify insignificant issues and ignore significant ones. Most of us are aware that the MSM circa 2018 is interested in drawing eyeballs to articles, serving various government, corporate, and private interests, and not to inform the electorate or provide perspective as per their original mandate. Yet even in 2018, the greatest media skeptics among us can still be confounded by the depth of the newsmedia's myopia, and by their unflagging ability to persuade otherwise rational people that a pebble is bigger than a mountain."What are you yammering about, anyway? I see story after story about the Yemenis starving, and here you are, saying that the MSM is ignoring it. Here's a story I found in 2 seconds, about the famine and how the United States is complicit. I also see the Yemenis starving on the 6 O'clock News on all our local networks, from the CBC to CTV to Global News. www.cnn.com/2018/10/08/opinions/end-us-complicity-in-yemen-war-opinion-warren-khanna/index.htmlPerhaps someone who doesn't even own a TV should stop opining about what's on the news.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 25, 2018 14:45:49 GMT -5
I honestly couldn't care less about him one way or the other. Of course you couldn't.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 25, 2018 14:47:43 GMT -5
Some thug got killed by other thugs in a middle eastern country. And that is NEWS? Oh ok then, lol How was JK a thug? Because he was a journalist?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 25, 2018 15:05:32 GMT -5
If there be any goodness and decency left in YMAM, the name "Donald trump" will never again appear on these hallowed pages as the caravan "full of criminals" is the most over hyped pile of steaming bullshit our country has been been subject to.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 25, 2018 15:08:02 GMT -5
Some thug got killed by other thugs in a middle eastern country. And that is NEWS? Oh ok then, lol Bless your heart.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 25, 2018 15:13:47 GMT -5
Some thug got killed by other thugs in a middle eastern country. And that is NEWS? Oh ok then, lolBless your heart. Did you note the "lol"? She thinks it's funny.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 25, 2018 15:16:26 GMT -5
Some thug got killed by other thugs in a middle eastern country. And that is NEWS? Oh ok then, lol How was JK a thug? Because he was a journalist? Watch. I'll never get an answer.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Nov 25, 2018 15:37:50 GMT -5
You know what's truly obscene, Virgil? It's that Trump won't do one.effing.thing to SA about Khashoggi because they line his pockets. Trump's personal wealth is more important to him than anything, or anyone, else. It is so beyond disgusting it makes me sick to my stomach. Be sides those ideas of Moon is the acceptance of more mistruths of the Donald... His claim of $450 Billion in armament sales to the kingdom...so far only $14 Billion in sales signed for...while nice , still a long, long way from almost a half Trillion in sales....and where is the Saudis getting all these $ for arms...? Why would anyone believe anything that the Donald says...he has cried "Wolf "to often...he lies like a rug., They , the Saudis, have a seriouse cash flow problem, one of the reasons for his detaining in five star accommodations true, fellow Princes and wealthy Saudi business men to gain some millions...badly needed by the kingdom.... To dismember a person while still alive...in todays world...not the drawn and quarter acts of Edward the first of England...is barbaric and just not acceptable....All know this...all but the Donald who refused to hear the tape of the incident as if a explanation of the act is enough....showing his yellow streak to any and all.... He feels the Saudis by their wealth and aid will be crucial to Israeli / Palastinian talks...treaty...not going to happen then the Donald will stamp his feet and call out the "Palestinians for not going along with his plan and he will withdraw all aid to that side in a pique mood...how he acts... No links...my predictions...
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steff
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Post by steff on Nov 25, 2018 15:57:39 GMT -5
I find it endlessly fascinating when we get to see hypocrisy on display like this. When a so called "pro-lifer" proceeds to tell us all how someone's life doesn't matter. That high horse they proudly sit upon gets to kick them in the ass repeatedly. And we get yet ANOTHER subject where they shoot themselves in the foot and remove any moral high ground they falsely believed they held. Don't ever lecture us about the value of life again. We all now know that life doesn't matter to you. You just said so in your own words. And the cherry on top is a mod insulting posters here who liked a post in another thread. Ditto head this you *******!
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 25, 2018 16:01:13 GMT -5
Good gosh.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 25, 2018 16:05:46 GMT -5
How was JK a thug? Because he was a journalist? Watch. I'll never get an answer. i give u the same answers u give me. See how that works?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 25, 2018 16:07:41 GMT -5
Did you note the "lol"? She thinks it's funny. The funny part is your feigned "outrage" .
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 25, 2018 16:13:32 GMT -5
Watch. I'll never get an answer. i give u the same answers u give me. See how that works? How was JK a thug? Clearly, you just pulled that out of your ass. You've got nothing.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Nov 25, 2018 16:20:44 GMT -5
I think his death matters because he was an American citizen when it happened. That's a level the govt had not ignored before. Sadly I don't think great things would have happened necessarily with a Democratic President in office now, but there would be something, instead of basically a lack of action pretty much OKing deaths of future American citizens in Saudi Arabia.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 25, 2018 16:27:04 GMT -5
I think his death matters because he was an American citizen when it happened. That's a level the govt had not ignored before. Sadly I don't think great things would have happened necessarily with a Democratic President in office now, but there would be something, instead of basically a lack of action pretty much OKing deaths of future American citizens in Saudi Arabia. Mr. Khashoggi was not an American citizen. He was a Saudi citizen resident in the United states. That said, I also would like to see where Shooby got the notion Mr. Khashoggi was a "thug". He was anything but a "thug".
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Nov 25, 2018 16:30:52 GMT -5
I think his death matters because he was an American citizen when it happened. That's a level the govt had not ignored before. Sadly I don't think great things would have happened necessarily with a Democratic President in office now, but there would be something, instead of basically a lack of action pretty much OKing deaths of future American citizens in Saudi Arabia. Mr. Khashoggi was not an American citizen. He was a Saudi citizen resident in the United states. That said, I also would like to see where Shooby got the notion Mr. Khashoggi was a "thug". He was anything but a "thug". Crap. I thought I had read he was a naturalized citizen. Nevermind.
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