cktc
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 19, 2013 22:15:31 GMT -5
Posts: 3,202
|
Post by cktc on Aug 27, 2015 15:48:20 GMT -5
And not to dig up my other thread on the topic of marriage and raising kids, but the fact of the matter is that if you aren't having sex with your spouse, someone else probably is. Once upon a time, I'd have said this is probably especially true for women (if you aren't sleeping with your husband, someone else is), but I think it may be equal. By that logic both partners would be cheating because they are getting the same amount of sex within the relationship.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 27, 2015 17:29:18 GMT -5
And not to dig up my other thread on the topic of marriage and raising kids, but the fact of the matter is that if you aren't having sex with your spouse, someone else probably is. Once upon a time, I'd have said this is probably especially true for women (if you aren't sleeping with your husband, someone else is), but I think it may be equal. By that logic both partners would be cheating because they are getting the same amount of sex within the relationship. I see what you're saying. I think it's more of a warning to the spouse who has decided, for whatever reason, to freeze the other out of the bedroom.
|
|
cktc
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 19, 2013 22:15:31 GMT -5
Posts: 3,202
|
Post by cktc on Aug 27, 2015 17:54:55 GMT -5
By that logic both partners would be cheating because they are getting the same amount of sex within the relationship. I see what you're saying. I think it's more of a warning to the spouse who has decided, for whatever reason, to freeze the other out of the bedroom. I suppose it's comforting to think that if you put out your spouse won't cheat, or if you are the one cheating that it isn't your fault, but oftentimes the one doing the freezing is the one cheating. Consider an ego maniac struggling with impotence. If he has to use Viagra with his wife, OMG that's so embarrassing and emasculating! Better to say it's her fault he isn't attracted to her anymore and just shut her out. Now if he finds a mistress, he can tell himself he doesn't need the drugs, because she is different in some way, and he can delude himself that they are just for fun. Since the mistress doesn't know his lifetime 1-5 minutes prowess in bed, she doesn't have to know and he can pretend he is this super stud. Basically people will tell themselves whatever they want to justify cheating or reassure themselves that their marriage is affair proof, but the bottom line is you can't control other people, even your own spouse, and you have to be accountable for your own actions.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 27, 2015 18:03:37 GMT -5
I see what you're saying. I think it's more of a warning to the spouse who has decided, for whatever reason, to freeze the other out of the bedroom. I suppose it's comforting to think that if you put out your spouse won't cheat, or if you are the one cheating that it isn't your fault, but oftentimes the one doing the freezing is the one cheating. Consider an ego maniac struggling with impotence. If he has to use Viagra with his wife, OMG that's so embarrassing and emasculating! Better to say it's her fault he isn't attracted to her anymore and just shut her out. Now if he finds a mistress, he can tell himself he doesn't need the drugs, because she is different in some way, and he can delude himself that they are just for fun. Since the mistress doesn't know his lifetime 1-5 minutes prowess in bed, she doesn't have to know and he can pretend he is this super stud. Basically people will tell themselves whatever they want to justify cheating or reassure themselves that their marriage is affair proof, but the bottom line is you can't control other people, even your own spouse, and you have to be accountable for your own actions. All I can say is that if I ever have an erection lasting more than four hours, the last place you're gonna find me is the doctor's.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 27, 2015 18:04:56 GMT -5
And you make a good point about the cheating spouse doing the freezing out-- which is still kinda the point: if they aren't sleeping with you, they're probably sleeping with someone else. Maybe it is about equal?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 8, 2024 20:16:26 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 18:32:52 GMT -5
one step further: what i do with my person or property is none of your business, so long as i am not harming the person or property of non consenting others. note to Richard: "your" in this case means society at large. And cheating on your wife, to whom you swore an oath to love and to cherish until death do you part, doesn't constitute "harming the person or property of non consenting others" in your view? This may come as a shock to some people... but... not everyone includes variations of "forsaking all others" in their marriage vows. It may also come as a shock to some, but it's very easy to love more than one person. For example: Your kids (if you have, or will have, them, more than one)... Do/did you stop loving the first one when the second one came/comes along? No, of course you didn't/won't. And if monogamy stopped becoming the default (as I suggest), maybe more people would understand that you can "love and to cherish" without it.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 8, 2024 20:16:26 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 18:38:14 GMT -5
Is this in dispute? There are plenty of people out there in non-monogamous relationships. No one is stopping them. I think the problem (at least what's being discussed in this thread) comes in when one person believes he or she is in a monogamous relationship, and the other person in the relationship knows that is not true. If non-monogamy was more acceptable, less sneaking around would happen and sites like this wouldn't get nearly the business they get. I do agree that the sneaking around and breaking promises is bad... but the solution to solving that problem isn't to ignore the cause (humans are not a monogamous species).
|
|
Artemis Windsong
Senior Associate
The love in me salutes the love in you. M. Williamson
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:32:12 GMT -5
Posts: 12,320
Today's Mood: Twinkling
Location: Wishing Star
Favorite Drink: Fresh, clean cold bottled water.
|
Post by Artemis Windsong on Aug 27, 2015 18:48:49 GMT -5
To take another spin on this. I wonder what the statistics are where both spouses are signed up online cruising for another couple or groups of swingers. Or the configuration of 2M, 1F or 2F, 1M or 3M, 3F. With the low numbers of F in the statistics previously stated, they are finding other outlets. Or another website just for them. Cyber CSI called out the deep web where sickcos go online then play it out in the real world.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 27, 2015 19:20:46 GMT -5
And cheating on your wife, to whom you swore an oath to love and to cherish until death do you part, doesn't constitute "harming the person or property of non consenting others" in your view? This may come as a shock to some people... but... not everyone includes variations of "forsaking all others" in their marriage vows. It may also come as a shock to some, but it's very easy to love more than one person. For example: Your kids (if you have, or will have, them, more than one)... Do/did you stop loving the first one when the second one came/comes along? No, of course you didn't/won't. And if monogamy stopped becoming the default (as I suggest), maybe more people would understand that you can "love and to cherish" without it. You must have missed the entire SSM debate from a few months ago. Among my contributions were studies on how (96% of) male couples defined "monogamy", which most definitely didn't include "forsaking all others", hence your statement definitely doesn't come as a shock to me. I also posted at least two articles about the science of relationships, which predictably concluded that our ability to form deep, meaningful, emotionally-committed relationships degrades with every partner we have relations with. But what I want to know is: why go through the farce of a marriage ceremony (or a "commitment ceremony", as some call it) if there is no covenant, exclusivity, or nuclear partnership? Surely it would be easier and less risky to simply cohabit, forgoing the pomp and bluster of an obsolete ritual.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 8, 2024 20:16:26 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 19:31:07 GMT -5
This may come as a shock to some people... but... not everyone includes variations of "forsaking all others" in their marriage vows. It may also come as a shock to some, but it's very easy to love more than one person. For example: Your kids (if you have, or will have, them, more than one)... Do/did you stop loving the first one when the second one came/comes along? No, of course you didn't/won't. And if monogamy stopped becoming the default (as I suggest), maybe more people would understand that you can "love and to cherish" without it. You must have missed the entire SSM debate from a few months ago. Among my contributions were studies on how (96% of) male couples defined "monogamy", which most definitely didn't include "forsaking all others", hence your statement definitely doesn't come as a shock to me. I also posted at least two articles about the science of relationships, which predictably concluded that our ability to form deep, meaningful, emotionally-committed relationships degrades with every partner we have relations with. But what I want to know is: why go through the farce of a marriage ceremony (or a "commitment ceremony", as some call it) if there is no covenant, exclusivity, or nuclear partnership? Surely it would be easier and less risky to simply cohabit, forgoing the pomp and bluster of an obsolete ritual.Ho many of the 1,400-odd legal protections that you get with marriage do you get without it? ZERO. That's a pretty good reason in my book. Contrary to popular belief, marriage is rarely about the ceremony ONLY. Also... what makes it a "farce"? You want to talk about farces? How about all those people that get married "til death do us part" and then divorce. That's more of a "farce" than having an open marriage.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,730
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
|
Post by Opti on Aug 27, 2015 19:55:29 GMT -5
Richard, you are entitled to your opinion. But somehow screwing up forsaking all others, which is unlikely to be a one time thing and divorcing which is once seem different to me. I do not see divorce as making a farce of a marriage, because I think its better to leave instead of kill your spouse - but you can disagree.
And marriage ceremonies can be customized. Perhaps some do not promise to be faithful nor promise to be with each other until death so them part. With the latter, it could mean murder is better than divorce.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 27, 2015 22:37:53 GMT -5
Also... what makes it a "farce"? You want to talk about farces? How about all those people that get married "til death do us part" and then divorce. That's more of a "farce" than having an open marriage. I'll grant you it's subjective. To me, the man who swears he'll swim the English Channel but then drowns halfway is still less farcical than a man who claims he's swum the English Channel because he's racked up 35K in lap pools over the years.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Aug 27, 2015 23:13:42 GMT -5
I suppose it's comforting to think that if you put out your spouse won't cheat, or if you are the one cheating that it isn't your fault, but oftentimes the one doing the freezing is the one cheating. Consider an ego maniac struggling with impotence. If he has to use Viagra with his wife, OMG that's so embarrassing and emasculating! Better to say it's her fault he isn't attracted to her anymore and just shut her out. Now if he finds a mistress, he can tell himself he doesn't need the drugs, because she is different in some way, and he can delude himself that they are just for fun. Since the mistress doesn't know his lifetime 1-5 minutes prowess in bed, she doesn't have to know and he can pretend he is this super stud. Basically people will tell themselves whatever they want to justify cheating or reassure themselves that their marriage is affair proof, but the bottom line is you can't control other people, even your own spouse, and you have to be accountable for your own actions. All I can say is that if I ever have an erection lasting more than four hours, the last place you're gonna find me is the doctor's. Wanna bet?
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Aug 28, 2015 0:13:12 GMT -5
Ditto with "Wanna bet?"
The condition, called priapism, seems funny only to those who have never suffered it. More than 40% of men with sickle-cell anemia suffer priapism. It also strikes some men with diabetes and can be a side effect of erectile dysfunction drugs -- particularly those injected into the penis. It's not a joke -- it's a medical emergency.
Swelling from priapism can be exquisitely painful. But that's not the worst of it. Erections lasting longer than four hours cut off the supply of fresh blood to the penis. The result: Penile fibrosis, the formation of scar tissue in the main body of the penis. This often means permanent erectile dysfunction.
www.webmd.com/erectile-dysfunction/news/20091104/new-cure-for-4-hour-erections
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Aug 28, 2015 7:07:35 GMT -5
Turns out there were very few women actually on Ashley Madison. So, how much actual cheating was really happening? Most of these men just got duped for money, lol.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Aug 28, 2015 7:14:20 GMT -5
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 28, 2015 8:56:19 GMT -5
Ditto with "Wanna bet?"
The condition, called priapism, seems funny only to those who have never suffered it. More than 40% of men with sickle-cell anemia suffer priapism. It also strikes some men with diabetes and can be a side effect of erectile dysfunction drugs -- particularly those injected into the penis. It's not a joke -- it's a medical emergency.
Swelling from priapism can be exquisitely painful. But that's not the worst of it. Erections lasting longer than four hours cut off the supply of fresh blood to the penis. The result: Penile fibrosis, the formation of scar tissue in the main body of the penis. This often means permanent erectile dysfunction.
www.webmd.com/erectile-dysfunction/news/20091104/new-cure-for-4-hour-erections
Why ya gotta be such a downer?
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 28, 2015 9:00:19 GMT -5
Turns out there were very few women actually on Ashley Madison. So, how much actual cheating was really happening? Most of these men just got duped for money, lol. And there it is. The allure of "online" relationships is that you will magically be able to accomplish online something that you cannot do in person in everyday life. Not only that, but if you aren't keenly aware, or at least suspicious and paranoid enough to think EVERYTHING you do online will eventually be revealed- you're too stupid to live. Honestly. Nobody is hiding online. Clever screen names, the idea that by clicking a box in sign up, or settings on some site that there's such a thing as keeping your real identity and information "secret" online is a complete joke. You're online- you're out naked in the breeze. All of us are. The only solution is to shut it all OFF, and unplug it. Otherwise- your online life is your public life.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Aug 28, 2015 11:56:33 GMT -5
Ditto with "Wanna bet?"
The condition, called priapism, seems funny only to those who have never suffered it. More than 40% of men with sickle-cell anemia suffer priapism. It also strikes some men with diabetes and can be a side effect of erectile dysfunction drugs -- particularly those injected into the penis. It's not a joke -- it's a medical emergency.
Swelling from priapism can be exquisitely painful. But that's not the worst of it. Erections lasting longer than four hours cut off the supply of fresh blood to the penis. The result: Penile fibrosis, the formation of scar tissue in the main body of the penis. This often means permanent erectile dysfunction.
www.webmd.com/erectile-dysfunction/news/20091104/new-cure-for-4-hour-erections
Why ya gotta be such a downer? LOL! Good pun, Paul! In all seriousness, though, that's not a condition anybody hopes for, and it's sure not one that anybody would wish for! Fortunately, we didn't see a lot of these poor guys, but they'd show up several times a year, coming through the ER door looking like deer in the headlights. You knew them as soon as they breached the door. There was just "this look" we all recognized. Their eyes didn't change much when they found out about the treatment - they just got to be bigger dinner plates. In short, always hope for "a downer".
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Aug 28, 2015 11:58:57 GMT -5
Turns out there were very few women actually on Ashley Madison. So, how much actual cheating was really happening? Most of these men just got duped for money, lol. I don't suppose that matters very much to those who were actually made suddenly aware their spouses were cheating.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,279
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 28, 2015 12:02:40 GMT -5
I do think I'd get some satisfaction out of knowing there were hardly any women on there. You ruined your marriage and didn't even get anything out of it. You lost everything based on the HOPE you'd get laid by someone else. Not only are you an asshole, but you're a stupid asshole.
Weird logic I know.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,172
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Aug 28, 2015 12:35:40 GMT -5
I do think I'd get some satisfaction out of knowing there were hardly any women on there. You ruined your marriage and didn't even get anything out of it. You lost everything based on the HOPE you'd get laid by someone else. Not only are you an asshole, but you're a stupid asshole. Weird logic I know. this is part of what makes it funny for me.
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,363
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 28, 2015 12:40:56 GMT -5
I do think I'd get some satisfaction out of knowing there were hardly any women on there. You ruined your marriage and didn't even get anything out of it. You lost everything based on the HOPE you'd get laid by someone else. Not only are you an asshole, but you're a stupid asshole. Weird logic I know. this is part of what makes it funny for me. It's why I keep my fantasies in my head and only partially traceable website visits.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,172
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Aug 28, 2015 12:48:55 GMT -5
this is part of what makes it funny for me. It's why I keep my fantasies in my head and only partially traceable website visits. ultimately, that is all most of the Ashley Madison guys did, too. they just weren't aware of it before now.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Aug 28, 2015 17:12:33 GMT -5
Turns out there were very few women actually on Ashley Madison. So, how much actual cheating was really happening? Most of these men just got duped for money, lol. I don't suppose that matters very much to those who were actually made suddenly aware their spouses were cheating. I think it matters greatly. I think there is a big diff between chatting online with a fake persona and going to a hotel and having a physical relationship. Yes, that isn't right either but I don't think it is quite the same thing.
|
|
ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
Community Leader
♡ ♡ BᏋՆᎥᏋᏉᏋ ♡ ♡
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:51 GMT -5
Posts: 43,130
Location: Inside POM's Head
Favorite Drink: Chilled White Zin
|
Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Aug 28, 2015 17:31:30 GMT -5
I think it matters greatly. I think there is a big diff between chatting online with a fake persona and going to a hotel and having a physical relationship. Yes, that isn't right either but I don't think it is quite the same thing. Really?
Many would disagree with you. Emotional cheating by a partner is just as serious (and wrong) to them as physical cheating by a partner.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 28, 2015 18:26:09 GMT -5
I have to agree with Sum Dum Gai: it is possible, albeit absurdly inconvenient, to be totally anonymous on the Internet. ( ETA: Sort of. Big data analytics has now reached the stage where individual users can be tracked by behaviour in some cases. Ironically, the more unusual one's profile [which includes unusually tight security measures], the easier one is to track this way.) The one exception I'll make is e-mail. Very few e-mail services worldwide accept encrypted mail without the recipient explicitly configuring them to accept it. E-mail is "somewhat incompatible" with public key encryption for a number of reasons. There are ways of making it work, but generally speaking, if you're sending e-mail to anonymousjoe@whatever.com and you don't have any negotiating power with Joe, you're not going to be sending him encrypted e-mail and he isn't going to be sending you any.
|
|
Malarky
Junior Associate
Truth and snark are equal opportunity here.
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 21:00:51 GMT -5
Posts: 5,313
|
Post by Malarky on Aug 28, 2015 21:42:59 GMT -5
Skipping to the end to comment, then going back to read the thread.. Ten percent of the population of my town had an account with Ashley Madison. I know I'm not on there, and I don't see how DH would ever actually have time for an affair....it aint us! where did you find that statistic? or how did you figure that out? wow! The <<name of town>> Patch. We made it to the top 100 MA communities for Ashley Madison. Gives new meaning to the phrase "bedroom community."
|
|
Malarky
Junior Associate
Truth and snark are equal opportunity here.
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 21:00:51 GMT -5
Posts: 5,313
|
Post by Malarky on Aug 28, 2015 21:46:46 GMT -5
I read that there were only 3 zip codes in the U.S. that didn't have accounts. They were towns with less than 300 people and no internet access. I saw that, too! I was just curious where she got the 10% number. I know a lot of people from that town lol..... starting to wonder if I should go check out that list! I thought about it, and I'm not looking. I don't want to know. If the numbers are accurate and it really is 10% here, there's no way I don't know at least some of those people.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Aug 29, 2015 7:19:34 GMT -5
I think it matters greatly. I think there is a big diff between chatting online with a fake persona and going to a hotel and having a physical relationship. Yes, that isn't right either but I don't think it is quite the same thing. Really?
Many would disagree with you. Emotional cheating by a partner is just as serious (and wrong) to them as physical cheating by a partner. Sorry but I dont' think most people are going to have the same reaction to over hearing your spouse say "Oh that girl is hot" to a friend versus actually calling her, meeting up and having a physical affair.
|
|