djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 20, 2015 20:24:13 GMT -5
You left out a word. That word is "yet"... and it goes at the end of what I bolded. Why? Are you as gung ho to jump aboard the "let's fantasize about how rotten and miserable the Duggars are" train as the YM crowd? i think you mistook me, Virgil. i am not cheering that poor bastard and his misery. rather, i am having a rather deep and refreshing chuckle at the expense of pop culture- which i have not participated in for 20 years. edit: i know i wasn't very clear at all about that. it is hard to know what to say when something this horrible unfolds so publicly. i tend to laugh because the alternative is crying, and i don't really have the energy for it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2015 20:34:52 GMT -5
It's not anything I fantasize about... no. BUT... First Point: If only 1 in 10 (and I think I'm being generous with that guesstimate) people are "bad in some way or another, even if they never get caught"... there are 21 people in that family. So that makes 2.1 out of 21... which is more than JUST Josh, by default. Second Point: Cults usually churn out people with social problems at a higher rate than "standard average, without taking into account any mitigating factors what-so-ever". That "Quiverfull Movement" is a cult, increasing the odds to probably closer to 1 in 4 or 1 in 5. Third Point: Every one of them is human. Humans are not perfect. That's actually not a bad argument. An appeal to random chance. As for "Humans are not perfect.", you definitely don't have to be "perfect" to avoid cheating on your wife. True... But... cheating on a spouse is just one of MANY "infractions" against society that society takes notice of.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 20, 2015 20:35:41 GMT -5
I do have some empathy for Josh Duggar. He's obviously got some very serious issues. Whether he has the desire and moral strength to battle his demons and win, I don't know. Heck, he may not even know. I'm not a professional so have no clue what might have caused his problems but, I expect, repression probably had a hand in it. Whatever, I find myself hoping he can find a way to get the help he really needs. That's not going to come from choices made for him by his family and it's not going to come from the Quiverfull community, IMO.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 20, 2015 20:53:34 GMT -5
Another huge Ashley Madison data was dropped today. Almost 13 gigs of internal email, including the CEOs. This should be good. We're basically watching the systematic destruction of the company. Here's a hypothetical for you: Suppose you're mystically transported back in time one week prior to the AM breach and you have in your possession the full details of how the server will be compromised. The laws of time travel stipulate that you can't profit in any way from possible interference, but you still have the option to provide the AM execs with the details of the hack pro bono, which they'll presumably use to prevent it. Do you provide them with the details and spare them the destruction of their company, or do you let history play out as it has, with various adulterers being caught in the wake?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 20, 2015 20:58:06 GMT -5
The Impact Team warned this company to take down those sites or suffer the consequences. The company decided to leave the sites up and operating. What we're seeing now are the consequences, exactly as the Impact Team predicted. I really can't argue with that. I don't like the idea of hacking, in general. It's a breach of privacy, IMO. However, it's a reality and it's going to happen. This is but the tip of the iceburg as I see it.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 20, 2015 21:03:19 GMT -5
I do have some empathy for Josh Duggar. He's obviously got some very serious issues. Whether he has the desire and moral strength to battle his demons and win, I don't know. Heck, he may not even know. I'm not a professional so have no clue what might have caused his problems but, I expect, repression probably had a hand in it. Whatever, I find myself hoping he can find a way to get the help he really needs. That's not going to come from choices made for him by his family and it's not going to come from the Quiverfull community, IMO. That sounds like forgiveness. Be careful where you espouse radical doctrines like that.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 20, 2015 21:05:20 GMT -5
The Impact Team warned this company to take down those sites or suffer the consequences. The company decided to leave the sites up and operating. What we're seeing now are the consequences, exactly as the Impact Team predicted. I really can't argue with that. I don't like the idea of hacking, in general. It's a breach of privacy, IMO. However, it's a reality and it's going to happen. This is but the tip of the iceburg as I see it. The question is: if you could prevent it, would you? It's a hypothetical. You're given the opportunity to prevent the breach in the first place. There is no ultimatum from the "Impact Team" because they're never able to access the data on account of your intervention.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 20, 2015 21:21:12 GMT -5
The Impact Team warned this company to take down those sites or suffer the consequences. The company decided to leave the sites up and operating. What we're seeing now are the consequences, exactly as the Impact Team predicted. I really can't argue with that. I don't like the idea of hacking, in general. It's a breach of privacy, IMO. However, it's a reality and it's going to happen. This is but the tip of the iceburg as I see it. The question is: if you could prevent it, would you? It's a hypothetical. You're given the opportunity to prevent the breach in the first place. There is no ultimatum from the "Impact Team" because they're never able to access the data on account of your intervention. Were I able to prevent it, I'd probably make that effort. It's not up to me to judge the wrongdoings of another - one who is a stranger to me - and it's certainly not up to me to expose those wrongdoings. There are many, however, who will take such things upon themselves. While many things are possible in hypotheticals, those things are not always possible when it comes to application. I can't stop these things and I know it. It is going to get worse.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 20, 2015 21:22:01 GMT -5
Well, well, well.....let the dance begin.
Ashley Madison client list includes Louisiana GOP executive director; he says it was for research.
Louisiana GOP executive director Jason Doré said Thursday that his name is on a list of accounts released as part of the Ashley Madison cheating website hack because the site was used for "opposition research."
The director of the statewide Republican Party said via text message that an account was created under his name and his former personal credit card billing address in connection with the work of his law firm, Doré Jeansonne. He declined to say who he was using the account for.
www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/08/louisiana_gop_ashley_madison.html
Ummm, yeah....research. That's the ticket!!
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 20, 2015 21:39:12 GMT -5
Well now we know what the real point of this hack is. Everything is politics.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 20, 2015 21:43:23 GMT -5
The question is: if you could prevent it, would you? It's a hypothetical. You're given the opportunity to prevent the breach in the first place. There is no ultimatum from the "Impact Team" because they're never able to access the data on account of your intervention. Were I able to prevent it, I'd probably make that effort. It's not up to me to judge the wrongdoings of another - one who is a stranger to me - and it's certainly not up to me to expose those wrongdoings. There are many, however, who will take such things upon themselves. While many things are possible in hypotheticals, those things are not always possible when it comes to application. I can't stop these things and I know it. It is going to get worse. I'm torn on this one, but at this point I'm leaning towards your position. Like Dark, I have no sympathy for companies that provide these kinds of services or for the people who solicit them, but this is going to destroy a lot of families that otherwise mightn't have been destroyed. Not only that, but as you point out, there are going to be a lot of individuals not actually guilty of infidelity--either maliciously added to the list, or who were curious, or who had a change of heart, or otherwise registered but inactive--whose lives are upended as well. Moreover, we're kidding ourselves if we think there isn't going to be a 1,001 AM clones (or existing competitors) surging in to meet the demand, or more impact on the demand itself than the 2-3 month "blip" in air travel that occurs after major air disasters. In other words, the "Impact Team" isn't going to make any lasting impact on the industry. Hence I'd probably hold my nose and hand over the info. Not for the sake of the company, or even out of principle, but for sake of all the guiltless parties caught up in the affair.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 20, 2015 21:49:39 GMT -5
There are some things I believe to be important enough to use Impact Team's methodology to fight against. Child pornography, snuff films, cruelty to the helpless (whether two legs, or four), ISIS ... those are a few. What people are doing in their private lives that doesn't involve misuse of the helpless or abject cruelty don't strike me as things that need to be targeted.
As for Impact Team, from what I read these people know what they're doing. This was a very sophisticated attack. If that's true, they've already dispersed and won't be seen again. They may reform at some point under a different alias but Impact Team has done what it set out to do. Now, they'll go dark to protect their identities.
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Aug 20, 2015 22:07:13 GMT -5
Well, well, well.....let the dance begin.
Ashley Madison client list includes Louisiana GOP executive director; he says it was for research.
Louisiana GOP executive director Jason Doré said Thursday that his name is on a list of accounts released as part of the Ashley Madison cheating website hack because the site was used for "opposition research."
The director of the statewide Republican Party said via text message that an account was created under his name and his former personal credit card billing address in connection with the work of his law firm, Doré Jeansonne. He declined to say who he was using the account for.
www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/08/louisiana_gop_ashley_madison.html
Ummm, yeah....research. That's the ticket!!
Worked for Pete Townshend. I hope the filthy company goes under- wonder what the corporate mission statement was.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 20, 2015 22:09:52 GMT -5
Guiltless parties with accounts on a website who's slogan is "Life is short, have an affair"? Not really seeing it. There kinda are a few, it seems. One guy (who's on the site) and his wife have an open relationship. She knows about his "dallying". I'm sure there are others like him.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Aug 20, 2015 22:12:13 GMT -5
What is the possibility that average joe cheater gets found out in this hack even if he used his real info? 37 million customers is a lot of info for a wife to search through. You don't go line by line, lol. Ctl +F would get you some quick hits
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 20, 2015 22:20:18 GMT -5
There kinda are a few, it seems. One guy (who's on the site) and his wife have an open relationship. She knows about his "dallying". I'm sure there are others like him. Yeah, but he's not being damaged by the data breach. His spouse knew about and supported him using the site. He has been damaged. With this breach and its publication, his neighbors will know, his employer will know, and other family members will know. It could cost him his job and the good will of friends and family. That's what bothers me most about this whole thing. Some will suffer who really shouldn't.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Aug 20, 2015 22:23:10 GMT -5
DH and I talked about this just this morning. Me: Don't worry, I didn't have an account on there. Ha-ha DH: me neither! Me: *giving him a crazy look* That's just what EVERY husband is saying this morning! You b*stard!
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 20, 2015 22:23:25 GMT -5
Guiltless parties with accounts on a website who's slogan is "Life is short, have an affair"? Not really seeing it. Their families are guiltless, and probably better off not knowing. The ones whose names were added maliciously or as a gag are guiltless. The ones that perused the site out of morbid curiosity aren't guiltless, but they're not guilty of having an affair either.
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Aug 20, 2015 22:33:03 GMT -5
Guiltless parties with accounts on a website who's slogan is "Life is short, have an affair"? Not really seeing it. There kinda are a few, it seems. One guy (who's on the site) and his wife have an open relationship. She knows about his "dallying". I'm sure there are others like him. Open relationships are simply swingers- which I have more respect for than liars that are using the tech to cheat on their spouses. No victims in open relationships.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2015 22:43:55 GMT -5
The Impact Team warned this company to take down those sites or suffer the consequences. The company decided to leave the sites up and operating. What we're seeing now are the consequences, exactly as the Impact Team predicted. I really can't argue with that. I don't like the idea of hacking, in general. It's a breach of privacy, IMO. However, it's a reality and it's going to happen. This is but the tip of the iceburg as I see it. The question is: if you could prevent it, would you? It's a hypothetical. You're given the opportunity to prevent the breach in the first place. There is no ultimatum from the "Impact Team" because they're never able to access the data on account of your intervention. This is a variation on the "Would you kill Hitler?" question. If I could go back in time, no. I wouldn't change a thing, because maybe they'd set their sites on a bank or the CIA or the FBI instead. You don't monkey around with time travel.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 20, 2015 23:00:52 GMT -5
Well, well, well.....let the dance begin.
Ashley Madison client list includes Louisiana GOP executive director; he says it was for research.
Louisiana GOP executive director Jason Doré said Thursday that his name is on a list of accounts released as part of the Ashley Madison cheating website hack because the site was used for "opposition research."
The director of the statewide Republican Party said via text message that an account was created under his name and his former personal credit card billing address in connection with the work of his law firm, Doré Jeansonne. He declined to say who he was using the account for.
www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/08/louisiana_gop_ashley_madison.html
Ummm, yeah....research. That's the ticket!!
Worked for Pete Townshend. I hope the filthy company goes under- wonder what the corporate mission statement was. Filthy? Meh. They found a niche and filled it. People have been having affairs since the days of the Flintstones, and they'll continue to do so. Homo Sapiens, by nature, is not a monogamous beast.
What I find really funny is these upright pillars of the community who preach religious values and morals, howl against immorality and how SSM is destroying families, getting caught.
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Robert not Bobby
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Post by Robert not Bobby on Aug 20, 2015 23:30:00 GMT -5
Are people that stupid, to put their real names and emails, on a place like that?
I'm like Jimmy Carter..."I cheated in my mind."
I know his time is coming up...not a great president but a decent man...a very good man. That counts for something.
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Robert not Bobby
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Post by Robert not Bobby on Aug 20, 2015 23:42:04 GMT -5
OK, I didn't know that, Gai.
People can have affairs the old fashion way...still not right, but who am I to judge.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 21, 2015 7:01:58 GMT -5
Is anyone here checking to see if their spouse is on the list?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 21, 2015 7:33:18 GMT -5
Is anyone here checking to see if their spouse is on the list? I'm not. Why, are you?
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 21, 2015 8:14:57 GMT -5
Is anyone here checking to see if their spouse is on the list? I'm not. Why, are you? no. That is part of my my point that I was trying to make earlier. IMHO the average joe cheater on the site probably is not going to be affected (in that their spouse will find out) by this data breach. A spouse needs to know about the breach, know how to access the info, go out and get that info, search it and be convinced that the person is their spouse. IMHO that is probably not going to happen that often. 1. As crazy as it may sound, I would argue not that many people know about the breach. 2. Even if you heard about it you have to know how to find the info. 3. Even if you know how to find it (i think I could find it with enough searching) you have to want to actually go find it. (I do not and you do not. I have to imagine most spouses do not think they have a cheating spouse so they will not) 4. If someone does go out and search they may not find their spouse because the spouse used an alias, or an email unknown to the spouse. 5. Finally if you do know about the breach, know how to find the info, go out and actually search the info and find your spouse on the list, I bet many would rationalize it away. Ie. that was not actually my spouse, it was someone hacked their info and used it there. I would argue that only a spouse that already believed their spouse was cheating and was just looking for the smoking gun would be affected here. And if a spouse already believes their spouse is cheating then isn't that marriage already not really doing that well...
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 21, 2015 8:35:13 GMT -5
I'm not sure I agree... most of the people I've known who have had spouses cheat have suspected, but done all they can to avoid the issue because denial is working for them. Or, they were surprised when they found out about the first time, but knew about the second, third, fourth...
I'd guess by the time someone signs up for Ashley Madison they have already dallied outside of marriage and their spouse at least suspects there's something on the side. But I could be wrong.
(I do agree with the main point that it's unlikely there are millions of people out there frantically searching for their spouse's email address on the database.)
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 21, 2015 8:36:29 GMT -5
no. That is part of my my point that I was trying to make earlier. IMHO the average joe cheater on the site probably is not going to be affected (in that their spouse will find out) by this data breach. A spouse needs to know about the breach, know how to access the info, go out and get that info, search it and be convinced that the person is their spouse. IMHO that is probably not going to happen that often. 1. As crazy as it may sound, I would argue not that many people know about the breach. 2. Even if you heard about it you have to know how to find the info. 3. Even if you know how to find it (i think I could find it with enough searching) you have to want to actually go find it. (I do not and you do not. I have to imagine most spouses do not think they have a cheating spouse so they will not) 4. If someone does go out and search they may not find their spouse because the spouse used an alias, or an email unknown to the spouse. 5. Finally if you do know about the breach, know how to find the info, go out and actually search the info and find your spouse on the list, I bet many would rationalize it away. Ie. that was not actually my spouse, it was someone hacked their info and used it there. I would argue that only a spouse that already believed their spouse was cheating and was just looking for the smoking gun would be affected here. And if a spouse already believes their spouse is cheating then isn't that marriage already not really doing that well... I'd say that's a pretty spot-on assessment. Of course, 37 million accounts (who knows how many of those are real) times whatever small percentage of spouses make it past #5 is still going to be a lot of havoc. I... just... What kind of idiot goes to an "affair website" to solicit an affair? Forget the morality of it for now, it's just plain stupid.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 21, 2015 8:36:32 GMT -5
I'm not sure I agree... most of the people I've known who have had spouses cheat have suspected, but done all they can to avoid the issue because denial is working for them. Or, they were surprised when they found out about the first time, but knew about the second, third, fourth... I'd guess by the time someone signs up for Ashley Madison they have already dallied outside of marriage and their spouse at least suspects there's something on the side. But I could be wrong. (I do agree with the main point that it's unlikely there are millions of people out there frantically searching for their spouse's email address on the database.) so you think most spouses think their spouses cheat?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 21, 2015 8:43:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure I agree... most of the people I've known who have had spouses cheat have suspected, but done all they can to avoid the issue because denial is working for them. Or, they were surprised when they found out about the first time, but knew about the second, third, fourth... I'd guess by the time someone signs up for Ashley Madison they have already dallied outside of marriage and their spouse at least suspects there's something on the side. But I could be wrong. (I do agree with the main point that it's unlikely there are millions of people out there frantically searching for their spouse's email address on the database.) so you think most spouses think their spouses cheat? Do most spouses cheat? I think most spouses of cheaters (at least, serial cheaters) aren't completely in the dark. What proportion of the married population that actually is, I have no idea. If someone gets drunk at a party and has a one-time encounter, then never does it again, it's probably much more likely the spouse doesn't know. But someone who regularly cheats... I would think it would be hard to keep up a flawless subterfuge for years.
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