Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 17:49:03 GMT -5
That is true Phi. The issue will be though how much of their income is discretionary. One of the reasons why people who have children young manage to do it, is that they never set expenses without kids. Kids are always a priority in the mix. Its when you set your fixed expenses without kids in the mix, and then yes, you want to prioritize them, but you are stuck with a whole lot of fixed costs which can make it more difficult.
C. is lucky that childcare is not an issue though! That will help a lot.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Mar 13, 2015 17:54:12 GMT -5
I don't think they make designer wardrobe for babies Oh you poor deluded man . . . What? Who is going to buy designer clothing that is going to be covered in vomit or drool in 2 minutes?
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 13, 2015 17:55:41 GMT -5
Oh you poor deluded man . . . What? Who is going to buy designer clothing that is going to be covered in vomit or drool in 2 minutes? Um . . . if past behavior is any reliable predictor of future performance - - - your wife.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 17:56:04 GMT -5
I'm sorry, have you met Mrs C?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 13, 2015 17:56:32 GMT -5
If the baby doesn't have a designer wardrobe and every gadget, yes, you're correct I don't think they make designer wardrobe for babies Think again..... shop.nordstrom.com/c/baby-girl-designer-collectionsBurberry, Stella McCarthy, Oscar de la Renta.....choose your poison!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 17:56:56 GMT -5
Why buy a fancy car when its just going to get covered in mud and salt?
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 13, 2015 18:00:56 GMT -5
Why assume your wife will somehow automatically become thrifty when she has a baby?
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Mar 13, 2015 18:01:56 GMT -5
What? Who is going to buy designer clothing that is going to be covered in vomit or drool in 2 minutes? Um . . . if past behavior is any reliable predictor of future performance - - - you wife. Even my wife is not that crazy!
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 13, 2015 18:03:17 GMT -5
Um . . . if past behavior is any reliable predictor of future performance - - - you wife. Even my wife is not that crazy! Well, she IS buying things for a baby that doesn't exist yet . . . just sayin' . . .
ETA: I feel for you, TheHaitian, I really do! A tiger does not easily change its stripes.
And $55 for designer formula? ? ? Holy cr*p.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 13, 2015 18:09:11 GMT -5
Um . . . if past behavior is any reliable predictor of future performance - - - you wife. Even my wife is not that crazy! You are so cute. I think 99 out of 100 posters would not be surprised if she bought designer clothes for the baby.
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 13, 2015 18:09:32 GMT -5
Oh you poor deluded man . . . What? Who is going to buy designer clothing that is going to be covered in vomit or drool in 2 minutes? The backseat of your Mini is likely to be splashed with its fair share of vomit and drool, yet she bought that...
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 13, 2015 18:11:30 GMT -5
Even my wife is not that crazy! Well, she IS buying things for a baby that doesn't exist yet . . . just sayin' . . .
ETA: I feel for you, TheHaitian, I really do! A tiger does not easily change its stripes.
And $55 for designer formula? ? ? Holy cr*p.
I'm sensitive to dairy and back then the rule was feed it anyway unless the baby was losing weight.
It would be much cheaper to plan on breast feeding and for her to avoid dairy products (milk etc. not eggs) while doing so. Probably healthier too.
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quince
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Post by quince on Mar 13, 2015 18:16:13 GMT -5
I actually knew where all my money was before I had a kid: we put it in our savings accounts. We definitely had enough money before we started TTC: the "imperfect timing" was that my husband was/is still in grad school and my eggs were rather aged.
You know where your money is too. You bought a new car for the wife, you bought a new house that has some enhancements you still want to add, your wife likes the finer things in life. You were thinking about getting a higher end new computer, and weren't you also looking at cars for yourself?
While some of these things are necessities, buying them with the timing/level that you did is NOT.
What children NEED, with the exception of daycare, which you have taken care of in the form of your MIL, is NOT expensive.
Food: Formula can be had for < $60/month if you go with store brands. Diapers/wipes: Also <$60 if you shop well. Clothing/toys: $30/quarter at second hand stores. Sundries: maybe $15/month?
A generous estimate to cover needs is $200/month, which should include typical medical copays, which I'm sure you can cover: you're not actually poor, you just don't have enough cash to do everything you want, at the maximum spending level, right now.
You will spend more than this, of course. There are also always circumstances that can inflate these numbers: health issues, even as small as a lactose/soy intolerance whether breastfeeding or not, can increase food costs easily.
One time costs like crib, highchair, carseat can be done inexpensively as well, if you don't receive these as gifts outright from your MIL/mother. I can't imagine your wife actually doing them inexpensively, but it can be done, and only a carseat and safe sleeping place are actually necessary. Highchair/changing station/dresser/other special furniture are totally optional.
Also, there are things that make life easier, but aren't needed. If you honestly don't have the money, maybe you don't get to have the hospital grade breast pump you want and all the supplements and interventions to help with supply, and maybe you make your own baby food instead of getting anything conveniently prepackaged. Maybe you repurpose a bag you already have instead of buying a bag designed diaper bag.
I think that you might actually need a budget, so you can see the tradeoffs that are made when you opt for the 1K plus computer instead of one for <$400, or when you go for the brand new car ordered to your specifications, because feeling that you don't have enough money now should not be coming as a surprise.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Mar 13, 2015 18:17:21 GMT -5
You want to find your money now. It's pretty easy. Between now and the end of the month you aren't allowed to spend a single penny. Either one of you. The only exceptions are paying utilities (cable, home security system, lawn service, etc. aren't utilities and get cancelled tomorrow), buying unprepared food at the grocery store, or putting gas in the car to go to work. That's it. Repeat next month. And the month after. And the month after. At the end of year you'll be miserable, but you'll have all your magic money sitting in your bank account. I mean it though, no spending at all. The last time I bought clothes it was a package of socks and a package of underwear at Target. That was only after my last couple pairs of boxer briefs had stretched out waistbands and I only owned two pairs of socks that didn't have holes in them. It was also some time last year. I haven't bought a single shirt or pair of pants in over two years. Our only splurge is home internet service so we can stream shows. We cancelled cable in 2012 or 13. I can do a modified version of that. - I am keeping cable. - We get an allowance every week + money for the church ... That will stay ($50)
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Mar 13, 2015 18:19:04 GMT -5
We've had about a $700/month swing in income. Bad swing. Lost $500/month in income, and expenses went up. They are going up again next year.
We've also gone through almost 15K in savings in the past 3 years.
In short, we now only have one sacred cow. The kids' education. EVERYTHING else is on the table for cutting.
Can you guys really do that? If your sacred cow is going to be the kid, then everything else has to be on the cutting table. You have to get really good at deciding needs vs. wants.
We spent $100/month on each kid from birth to a year. We formula fed and used cloth diapers.
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Mar 13, 2015 18:24:33 GMT -5
I have one 8 month old and in all actuality, not counting daycare, she really isn't expensive at all. A $35 box of diapers lasts for a month, and that is pampers; I could save another $10 doing Luvs or a generic brand. Wipes are maybe $5/month.
I breastfeed so basically free - a pump is now covered by insurance and bags are like $5/month. Even if your kid is allergic to diary - if your wife cuts it out of her diet, she can breastfeed without affecting the kiddo.
So we are at $45/month.
She eats baby food now. We will say she eats two jars/day even though it is less. So maybe $30/month.
$75/month now.
Clothes - people give you a lot and then you can get them cheap, even good stuff if you wait for sales. I love Gymboree but it is expensive so I wait for good sales so that I only pay $3-4 per item. Maybe $30/month for clothes and she really doesn't really require that. I just find baby clothes so darn cute.
$105/month now.
And we save $100/month into her 529. So right around $200/month.
We easily can afford that because we go nowhere now. We went out to eat today and while it went fine, it is just a lot of work and not relaxing. You can't just enjoy the meal because you are taking care of the kid amd making sure she isn't grabbing knives off the table the whole time.
Daycare is the biggest expense and you won't have that.
Other big expense was a bigger house, which we 'needed'/wanted anyway.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 13, 2015 18:28:13 GMT -5
OK, now talk to your wife and add her sacred cows to the list. Then add all your non-discretionary stuff. Mortgage, car payments, gas, utilities, etc. If your income is higher than the total at the bottom of the list you come up with, you're doing alright. If the amounts are pretty much the same it's time to revisit the sacred cows, or find a way to make some of the non-discretionary stuff discretionary. From what I've read over time that Carl has written, this is where the hang-up will be . . . just sayin' . . .
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Mar 13, 2015 18:38:19 GMT -5
OK, now talk to your wife and add her sacred cows to the list. Then add all your non-discretionary stuff. Mortgage, car payments, gas, utilities, etc. If your income is higher than the total at the bottom of the list you come up with, you're doing alright. If the amounts are pretty much the same it's time to revisit the sacred cows, or find a way to make some of the non-discretionary stuff discretionary. Even without cutting back we still make more every month than we spend and that is with the extra $600/month apartment. We are still saving every month and contributing to 401k and 403(b). So if we go by that spend less than you make, we will not be cutting back. I just want to start living at if we already have the baby and banking that money difference now.
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jelloshots4all
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Post by jelloshots4all on Mar 13, 2015 18:50:07 GMT -5
Babies are expensive, toddlers are expensive, grade school children are expensive, and wait until they get in HS. I think the average cost of a child is over $250K until they are 18.
They are INCREDIBLY worth it, but prepare to give up your money and time once you have a child. You save your vacation days because you will need to take off work for a sick child.
You don't buy a $600 coffee table from C&B, you go to Walmart and buy the knock off for $100 that you have to put together and takes you 2 hours if a child is napping- 6 if not.
You don't take vacations until they are old enough to enjoy them and not painful for you. Your savings takes a hit.
All discretionary spending such as clothes for yourselves is an absolute minimum. Kids grow fast and need new clothes- not designer. But you also then buy from Target, Marshalls, Ross, etc, not at the mall. Whenever you shop hit the clearance section first (even my almost 15 yr old knows this). NEVER pay retail.
Good luck Carl!! You and Mrs C will figure it out (I have been following your posts for years and love them).
When you have a child, your priorities change. For the better from what I have experienced
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Mar 13, 2015 18:59:58 GMT -5
We made 122k (bonus included, base was more along the line of 115k) combined last year so technically if we follow the church teaching to the letter we should have contributed 12.2k to the church ...
BUT I am not Christian. I meant $50/week not $50/each a week. - basically do groceries once a week and withdraw $50 - we each get $20 and she puts $10 in the place
So that is $50 X 52 = $2,600
And when I get reimbursed for mileage for work trip I just cash the check and split it. It is not really an allowances more so cash on hand to have in case we need it and somewhere doesn't accept cards.
Ex: my wife used some hers last week to buy some stuff at church for her aunts as birthday gift, was like $60 and they only accepted cash or $40 to her mom that needed cash for something. Or me giving $100 to my uncle widow going back to Haiti.
It is Misc spending, no questions ask, no need to keep track of it.
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Mar 13, 2015 19:05:18 GMT -5
Carl said:
It is Misc spending, no questions ask, no need to keep track of it.
++++++++
That about sums it up! Maybe we're just preaching to the choir.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 19:08:17 GMT -5
how much more a month is having a baby going to cost you? you have free daycare which is the number 1 expense. if your wife breastfeeds and pumps, your second biggest expense drops to minimal (especially since insurance now covers a pump). I'm just not seeing a big increase in costs. I am thinking mostly diapers and baby food / formula. My wife family has a lot of allergies so like her cousin our kid might be allergic to milk and need a special $55/can formula and not breastfeed. your wife being allergic to milk has nothing to do with whether she can breastfeed or not. and her having allergies that your kid might inherit is an even bigger incentive for breastfeeding.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 19:13:29 GMT -5
Babies are expensive, toddlers are expensive, grade school children are expensive, and wait until they get in HS. I think the average cost of a child is over $250K until they are 18.
They are INCREDIBLY worth it, but prepare to give up your money and time once you have a child. You save your vacation days because you will need to take off work for a sick child.
You don't buy a $600 coffee table from C&B, you go to Walmart and buy the knock off for $100 that you have to put together and takes you 2 hours if a child is napping- 6 if not.
You don't take vacations until they are old enough to enjoy them and not painful for you. Your savings takes a hit.
All discretionary spending such as clothes for yourselves is an absolute minimum. Kids grow fast and need new clothes- not designer. But you also then buy from Target, Marshalls, Ross, etc, not at the mall. Whenever you shop hit the clearance section first (even my almost 15 yr old knows this). NEVER pay retail.
Good luck Carl!! You and Mrs C will figure it out (I have been following your posts for years and love them).
When you have a child, your priorities change. For the better from what I have experienced
I think you're being a little dramatic. I didn't buy Walmart furniture or not take vacations or only buy them thrift store or clearance clothes even after becoming a single mom of 3 with no child support. Mr and Mrs C make a pretty good salary. they have no daycare costs. they have a generous family that will inundate them with hand me downs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 19:16:50 GMT -5
I can't see Mrs. Camping or couponing... might just be me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 19:19:01 GMT -5
I can't see Mrs. Camping or couponing... might just be me. I don't blame her.....I've never done either
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 13, 2015 19:20:18 GMT -5
I've done both. I prefer couponing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 19:20:43 GMT -5
My concern would be the manner in which a series of high bills seems to have thrown them off recently. Houses will continue to have expenses. So will cars. So, will kids... I think daughters mouth is headed over the 8K mark right now. There are unforeseen doctor bills, speech therapy, corrective braces... etc. et al. ... Childcare will be easier for them, but eventually kids will want to go to a preschool, or take a class or lessons.... etc. They don't have to be expensive, but they aren't free...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 19:27:22 GMT -5
My concern would be the manner in which a series of high bills seems to have thrown them off recently. Houses will continue to have expenses. So will cars. So, will kids... I think daughters mouth is headed over the 8K mark right now. There are unforeseen doctor bills, speech therapy, corrective braces... etc. et al. ... Childcare will be easier for them, but eventually kids will want to go to a preschool, or take a class or lessons.... etc. They don't have to be expensive, but they aren't free... yes but their salaries aren't going to stay the same and they don't have to have the money saved up for everything right now. all of my kids' orthodontia was paid over 24 months interest free - most from an FSA - I certainly didn't have the $15K+ saved up before the first one started.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Mar 13, 2015 19:34:26 GMT -5
Carl said:
It is Misc spending, no questions ask, no need to keep track of it.
++++++++
That about sums it up! Maybe we're just preaching to the choir.
Really! I find it more practical than my wife needing $20 for something (pot luck at her job for example) and go to an ATM and gets charge $2.25 then our bank charge her $3.00 So that is $5.25 for her to get $20. I figure and it has worked for the past couple of months that it is easier to just take money out and we each have it in case we need it. I am sorry but I am not broke and dodging calls from debt collectors, my bills are paid and we got savings. I don't see how taking $50/week to split with my wife and $10 of it going to the church is really that big of a deal.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 13, 2015 19:35:01 GMT -5
You know that $225 designer purse/tote bag/whatever that you were going to buy for your wife? Just don't.
You're welcome.
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