The mom who left her kid in the car

[Firebird]

I won't have time to participate in the discussion but I'm dying to hear YM's take on this article.

www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_day_i_left_my_son_in_the_car/

What do you think?  Bad parent or overreaction?

[Sam_2.0]

I've read it. Everyone does something at some point that could be considered "bad parenting". Heck, we used to all 4 sit in the car while mom did her grocery shopping, and we survived. It wasn't an infant, it was an older kid who could have gotten out of the car on his own. I may have stayed to see if she came back soon but don't think I would have called the cops for that one.

[Firebird]

Personally, I think what she did was wrong (4 is too young to be left alone in a car, even for a few minutes, unless you're going to be six feet away - e.g. visiting the ATM or parking meter). 

On the other hand, I'm kind of disgusted with the bystander who apparently witnessed her leaving the kid in the car but didn't bother confronting her or saying something like, "Lady, please bring your son into the store with you.  I don't want to have to contact the police, but I will if you leave him out here alone."  He just jumped straight to "let me get my camera and nail this bitch."

To me, it seems like if your top priority as a bystander is the child's safety, you'd confront the parent.  If your top priority is to screw someone over, you'd handle it the way the bystander did.

Again - not saying she was in the right.  I just don't like the way Bystander Dude handled it. 

[Sam_2.0]

I hate having to feel like my every move in public is being judged. One mis-step and BAM.

I left DD at home asleep the other night to go 2 houses down to get more papers to finish packing with. I was gone 3 minutes (I timed it, lol). Nothing happened. I don't sit in her room and watch her sleep anyway, and there's plenty of time that we let her play in the house unsupervised while we are there (in a different room or something).

[Wisconsin Beth]

Iv'e read this too.  Why isn't alerting the store an option for the bystander? 

[Firebird]

And, Sam, I agree.  We all do things that we regret, or even things we think are right that other people don't.  Some people wouldn't have been comfortable leaving their 1.5 year old daughter with a 12 year old babysitter (even with her parents nearby), as I did. 

I've made mistakes with Babybird.  I'm sure we've all made mistakes with our kids, even maybe some that could have resulted in their injuries/deaths.  We all judge certain mistakes more harshly than others, and it's usually highly dependent on the results.  If everything works out fine, most people shrug and move on.  If something bad happens, most people put on the judgment hat. 

[gacpa]

Sad topic, a man went to work in Atlanta yesterday and forgot to take his son to daycare.  The toddler died.  The man is now being charged with first degree murder.  I am not sure what the state is thinking by charging him with first degree murder.  Preventing future tragedies? 

[chiver78]

still reading, but wow. complete and total overreaction.

[Sam_2.0]

Yikes! I would say the guy is suffering enough and manslaughter or less would be appropriate, unless they are finding some evidence that he intentionally did it and made it look like an accident? I always worried about that with DD. After a scenario like that in our city a couple of years ago, our security officers that walk the parking lot made a habit to check carseats as they walked by to be sure they were empty.

[Firebird]

I hate having to feel like my every move in public is being judged. One mis-step and BAM.

Me too.  When I read this story, I did a hypothetical in my head where the kid was 13 instead of 4, but he was really small for his age and looked 9 or 10.  Would the bystander still have felt justified in calling the cops? 

Iv'e read this too. Why isn't alerting the store an option for the bystander?

That was my thought too, until I reread the story and realized that he actually WITNESSED her leaving the kid in the car. 

If I found a kid waiting in the car that looked younger than 8 or so (but old enough to talk and communicate - not babies or toddlers, that's a different story), my response would be to go in the store and have someone page the mother.  I might still call the cops, depending on factors like the age of the kid and the weather, but my top priority would be making sure that the situation was FIXED and the kid was SAFE first.

I had a conversation with someone about this yesterday, and her response to this was to say, "Why should a bystander have to get so involved/make that much effort?"  To which I could only go

[Firebird]

Jun 19, 2014 10:51:29 GMT -5 gacpa said:

Sad topic, a man went to work in Atlanta yesterday and forgot to take his son to daycare.  The toddler died.  The man is now being charged with first degree murder.  I am not sure what the state is thinking by charging him with first degree murder.  Preventing future tragedies? 

Wow!  There was an article about this in a recent Parents magazine and it sounds like parents who do this (if they're charged at all, which happens about half the time) usually get charged with criminal negligence.  First degree murder is way overkill, unless they had evidence he planned it and did it on purpose.

Okay, I really have to go to work now.  Carry on. 

[zibazinski]

I'm so glad I raised my kids when I did. I see DFs former stepchildren and their kids act half their age because of so much coddling and over protection. Then we wonder why kids don't launch.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jun 19, 2014 10:55:53 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I hate having to feel like my every move in public is being judged. One mis-step and BAM.

Me too.  When I read this story, I did a hypothetical in my head where the kid was 13 instead of 4, but he was really small for his age and looked 9 or 10.  Would the bystander still have felt justified in calling the cops? 

Iv'e read this too. Why isn't alerting the store an option for the bystander?

That was my thought too, until I reread the story and realized that he actually WITNESSED her leaving the kid in the car. 

If I found a kid waiting in the car that looked younger than 8 or so (but old enough to talk and communicate - not babies or toddlers, that's a different story), my response would be to go in the store and have someone page the mother.  I might still call the cops, depending on factors like the age of the kid and the weather, but my top priority would be making sure that the situation was FIXED and the kid was SAFE first.

I had a conversation with someone about this yesterday, and her response to this was to say, "Why should a bystander have to get so involved/make that much effort?"  To which I could only go

But the bystander went to the effort of taking a photo of the kid, calling the cops and then submitting the photo to them.  Also one of her license plate.  Less effort to go in and flag down an employee. 

[zibazinski]

Jun 19, 2014 11:02:06 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Jun 19, 2014 10:55:53 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I hate having to feel like my every move in public is being judged. One mis-step and BAM.

Me too.  When I read this story, I did a hypothetical in my head where the kid was 13 instead of 4, but he was really small for his age and looked 9 or 10.  Would the bystander still have felt justified in calling the cops? 

Iv'e read this too. Why isn't alerting the store an option for the bystander?

That was my thought too, until I reread the story and realized that he actually WITNESSED her leaving the kid in the car. 

If I found a kid waiting in the car that looked younger than 8 or so (but old enough to talk and communicate - not babies or toddlers, that's a different story), my response would be to go in the store and have someone page the mother.  I might still call the cops, depending on factors like the age of the kid and the weather, but my top priority would be making sure that the situation was FIXED and the kid was SAFE first.

I had a conversation with someone about this yesterday, and her response to this was to say, "Why should a bystander have to get so involved/make that much effort?"  To which I could only go

But the bystander went to the effort of taking a photo of the kid, calling the cops and then submitting the photo to them.  Also one of her license plate.  Less effort to go in and flag down an employee. 

I believe you have a right to confront your accuser. I'd like to know the busy body behind this.

[gacpa]

Now the news is reading he was charged with felony murder and first degree cruelty to a child.  I wish reporters could get the story straight the first time. 

This toddler was in the car ALL DAY in a parking lot.  No one saw him? 

This seems like a horrible accident, not criminal intent to murder.  Bad situation all the way around.

[justme]

I wouldn't think a child that's old enough to get in/out of whatever seat they are in and open the door is in anywhere near the amount of danger as an infant/toddler that can't get out of their seat. Given that it was in a strip mall, she could have been within the same amount of distance to her kid as if they were in a house. Even closer if it was a two story house. 

At what age is it ok to leave a kid in the car for a little while? 

But then again I'm from an age (so long ago, growing up in the early 90s) where I don't remember sitting in booster seats at 5, I got put on a bus my first day to kindergarten, and in first grade I was taking a boating license test (I had been driving the summer before too) and my brother (only 3 years older than me) and I were regularly allowed to go make short runs by ourselves. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

When I read this story, I did a hypothetical in my head where the kid was 13 instead of 4, but he was really small for his age and looked 9 or 10. Would the bystander still have felt justified in calling the cops

Funny story. No cops were called but I was sitting in the back seat with Gwen while DH ran into the Kwik shop. When he came back out a man stopped him and lectured him about how he shouldn't be leaving his kids in the car.

Totally deadpan DH goes "thanks for your concern. .. but that one is my wife".

I do worry about that now though and always make sure to have my purse with me so if someone does jump to conclusions and calls the cops I can prove I am the mother and I am 30.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jun 19, 2014 10:57:56 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Jun 19, 2014 10:51:29 GMT -5 gacpa said:

Sad topic, a man went to work in Atlanta yesterday and forgot to take his son to daycare.  The toddler died.  The man is now being charged with first degree murder.  I am not sure what the state is thinking by charging him with first degree murder.  Preventing future tragedies? 

Wow!  There was an article about this in a recent Parents magazine and it sounds like parents who do this (if they're charged at all, which happens about half the time) usually get charged with criminal negligence.  First degree murder is way overkill, unless they had evidence he planned it and did it on purpose.

Okay, I really have to go to work now.  Carry on. 

My understanding is that all 50 states handle it differently.  So you're going to get a wide range of actions taken by the police.  If it's in an area where there's been a high incidence of kids left in cars and dying from it - or you're at the start of the season - the police/DA/Child Protection Services might be ramping on it. 

Here, we lose between 11-13 infants a YEAR to co-sleeping issues and that's just in a 2-3 county area.  I know I've talked about it in the past and it's not "true" co-sleeping most of the time but damn.  The churches are involved.  The authorities are involved.  There's money thrown at the problem.  And it just doesn't go away. 

We were talking about this a couple of weeks ago.  Not sure what the thread was or where but somone Nancy maybe? linked to an interactive chart.  Anyone remember what that thread was? 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jun 19, 2014 11:04:34 GMT -5 gacpa said:

Now the news is reading he was charged with felony murder and first degree cruelty to a child.  I wish reporters could get the story straight the first time. 

This toddler was in the car ALL DAY in a parking lot.  No one saw him? 

This seems like a horrible accident, not criminal intent to murder.  Bad situation all the way around.

Depends on the person.  And the parking lot. 

I don't usually look into cars in parking lots.  I do if I see movement or the car is right next to me while I (and assorted kids) are getting in and out because I want to make sure we don't hit the other car or get out while they're parking or leaving. 

[Angel!]

I have left my kids in the car...Heck I have left them in the car at much younger ages than 4.  Not something I do very often though.  Sure something bad could happen, but honestly there are way more dangerous situations that my kids are in.  My kids are also allowed to jump on the neighbors tramp.  My son takes showers unsupervised at 5.  I don't sit in the room when DD takes a bath at 3.  I have knives up on the kitchen counter that the kids could get to if they wanted.  My cleaning supplies are not all locked up.  My medication is not all locked up.  I don't sit out front & watch DD & DS if they are playing.  I sometimes sleep with the windows open at night.  My son rides in the front seat of the car most of the time.  None of my kids rode rear-facing until 2.  DS2's car seat MIGHT be expired by now (not sure on this one).  I have 2 dogs & DS2 is allowed to play on the floor even if the dogs are in the room.

Bad things can happen at any time.  You do your best as a parent to look at the risks & make decisions & do the best you can.  The odds of something bad happening to a 4 year old left in a car for 5 minutes on a mild day is pretty small, despite what seems to be thought.  There are way bigger risks & parenting fails than this IMO. 

Heck, just being a single parent to a young kids puts them at risk.  I was way more concerned that I would fall in the shower, hit my head & die, leaving my kids alone.  No one might check for a couple days & my kids weren't old enough to seek help and might die before anyone realized.  Sure it isn't likely, but neither is something happening in a parking lot & at least alone in a parking lot, someone will eventually notice. 

[justme]

Geeze, maybe I won't have any kids after all. I'll be arrested so frequently.

Is it that ghastly for an 8 or 9 year old to be left in a car for a while? At that age I was asking half the time to be left in the car. 

[midjd]

I've posted about this before, but at least one store (Target) has a policy that forbids employees from paging customers who leave pets in cars. I would hope the same wouldn't hold true for kids, but I'm not sure.

I witnessed a dog locked in a car on a very hot day (90 or above). I tried all the doors, went into Target, spoke to someone at the customer service desk, who told me that she was not allowed to page the customer (or call the police) but that I could use their phone to call the police. I asked for a manager and then called the police. 

15 minutes later, no cop and no manager. Luckily the driver came out of Target so I could yell at her, and the dog seemed fine. (Later I talked to a friend who works at that Target and confirmed that employees who take it upon themselves to page a customer (even in an "emergency" situation) will be fired).

Again, I would certainly hope the response would be a bit more urgent if it was a child and not an animal (even though I think the safety of both are important) - but if I find myself in that situation again, I'm not wasting time by calling the police or trying to deal with a customer service person who is unable to take any action that isn't clearly outlined on the sheet taped to the counter.

None of this applies to the article linked in the OP, as she indicated it was a cool day and the child was old enough to get out of the car himself - but it might explain why, in other situations, calling the police and/or contacting store management isn't a good option.

[midjd]

Heck, just being a single parent to a young kids puts them at risk. I was way more concerned that I would fall in the shower, hit my head & die, leaving my kids alone. No one might check for a couple days & my kids weren't old enough to seek help and might die before anyone realized.

This is my nightmare! You know the scene in Steel Magnolias where Dylan McDermott comes home to the baby crying and the spaghetti boiling over while Julia Roberts is passed out? Every morning after DH leaves for work and I find myself wrestling DD in her carseat and my work bag/bottle bag/lunch bag down the stairs, I have flashes of that.

[Deleted]

I'll admit I leave my 4 year old in the van when I run into the gas station for things like milk/eggs.  It would take me longer to take him in and out of the carseat than the entire trip in and back would take.  If it's hot or cold the van is running and he's more than likely watching an episode of Blue's Clues or something. 

[Sam_2.0]

Jun 19, 2014 11:16:07 GMT -5 midjd said:

I've posted about this before, but at least one store (Target) has a policy that forbids employees from paging customers who leave pets in cars. I would hope the same wouldn't hold true for kids, but I'm not sure.

I witnessed a dog locked in a car on a very hot day (90 or above). I tried all the doors, went into Target, spoke to someone at the customer service desk, who told me that she was not allowed to page the customer (or call the police) but that I could use their phone to call the police. I asked for a manager and then called the police. 

15 minutes later, no cop and no manager. Luckily the driver came out of Target so I could yell at her, and the dog seemed fine. (Later I talked to a friend who works at that Target and confirmed that employees who take it upon themselves to page a customer (even in an "emergency" situation) will be fired).

Again, I would certainly hope the response would be a bit more urgent if it was a child and not an animal (even though I think the safety of both are important) - but if I find myself in that situation again, I'm not wasting time by calling the police or trying to deal with a customer service person who is unable to take any action that isn't clearly outlined on the sheet taped to the counter.

None of this applies to the article linked in the OP, as she indicated it was a cool day and the child was old enough to get out of the car himself - but it might explain why, in other situations, calling the police and/or contacting store management isn't a good option.

I hate that employees at these types of jobs are prevented from doing what they feel is right or risk losing their jobs. And at that level, they probably need their job and more just to make ends meet so losing their job is a HUGE risk.

[Angel!]

I would think the police would show up a lot faster for a kid locked in the car rather than a pet.

It seems to me that for certain things we are punishing people based on the worst case scenario, not what actually happened.  This mom got punished because something bad COULD have happened & therefore she is a bad mom.  Leaving your kid in the car alone doesn't seem any different than owning a swimming pool or gun when you look at worst case scenario.  However, with a gun or swimming pool, no one gets charged until something actually happens.  Why are we charging a mom for leaving the kid in the car, when nothing bad did happen & it was pretty likely that nothing bad would have happened.

[zibazinski]

Jun 19, 2014 11:20:30 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I'll admit I leave my 4 year old in the van when I run into the gas station for things like milk/eggs.  It would take me longer to take him in and out of the carseat than the entire trip in and back would take.  If it's hot or cold the van is running and he's more than likely watching an episode of Blue's Clues or something. 

I suggest that you don't do it anymore. Too many busy bodies out there.

[busymom]

Please don't leave the van running. Just take the kid in with you. DH used to work at a place where several vehicles left outside with the engine running were stolen.   (Here in the Midwest, when it's 30 below, people tend to keep the engine running if they're just "going in for a minute".) 

[Sam_2.0]

Jun 19, 2014 11:20:30 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I'll admit I leave my 4 year old in the van when I run into the gas station for things like milk/eggs.  It would take me longer to take him in and out of the carseat than the entire trip in and back would take.  If it's hot or cold the van is running and he's more than likely watching an episode of Blue's Clues or something. 

I've done the same when driving to see my friend and DD is asleep in the backseat. I park right in front of the doors and lock up the car. No one has ever said anything, but that doesn't mean they won't.

There need to be more drive-throughs. I know at Walgreens the pharmacy window will also get other things for you, but it has to fit out the drawer.

[Deleted]

Interesting and not sure what to think. 
Regarding the article...what didn't sit too well with me was how the mom supposedly had that debate with her son, about not wanting to come into the store. She was in this big hurry, but had time to debate with her son? It just seemed kind of made up to me.
Even if the debate did happen, a 4 year old should never be allowed to win such a debate.
I've never had any of our kids or grand kids want to stay in the car.
Regarding the father who left his child to die....My heart breaks for that child.
I've always wondered, "How do you not know your child is in the car? Duh!"
Well, the other day we decided to take our pup with us to a yard sale, with every intention of taking her out of the car with us.
She quietly rode in her carrier in the back seat.
We spend about half an hour checking out the yard sale and it wasn't until we got back into the car that we realized we hadn't taken her out, with us. Thank goodness the morning was cool, but now I can plainly see how easily someone, frantically trying to get through their day, could accidentally leave a child. Our day and trip wasn't frantic and we forgot OUR baby!