raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jun 19, 2014 12:36:52 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing. I have three kids, winning sometimes isn't worth it & you have to pick your battles. IMHO, There should be no picking of battles. A parent should win every one of them. What long term independence are you teaching your kids with that? I want my kids to be able to effectively communicate with most people, especially those in authority. That starts with how they talk to me.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 19, 2014 12:42:11 GMT -5
People, YM parenting is law. If you question it you should consider giving your kids to an orphanage to be raised properly.
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Jun 19, 2014 12:44:25 GMT -5
This reminds me of the story of the Mom who had buckled all the kids in and then remembered she left something in the house. In the minute that she was in the house, one of the kids found her lighter and set a piece of paper and then the entire car on fire. The youngest was burned the worst as his car seat buckle became stuck.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 12:44:42 GMT -5
Funny, for every one that said the person was a busy buddy no one considered what could have been the "worst case scenario". Off course the author said it was only 5 minutes, she is defending herself there and she will present herself under the best light possible. To every story there is 3 sides, he side, the bystander side and the actual truth. Enraged? She left a 4 year old in a car unattended and went to shop for what she said was "5" minutes. But she is the one that get to play the "enraged" card and I am the victim of a busy buddy. If only all those other kids that died in cars from having forgetful parents had a busy buddy around to call the cops. Maybe it is just me, but when I leave the kids anywhere alone I am constantly checking the time. I check my phone the minute I walk away from the car & keep checking it to make sure I am not leaving them too long. So, when I say that I rarely leave my kids in the car alone for more than 5 minutes, I know it because I keep track. I do the same thing when the kids are playing out front & try to always glance out the window at a minimum every 5 minutes. Whether or not that is true for this lady, or if other parents are like me, I have no idea. But, she might know exactly how long she left her kid. If it was truly a 5 minute errand, then I would call this other person a busy body. If I found a pet or kid in the car on a mild day, I wouldn't instantly call the police, nor would I film it or record the license plate. Depending on the situation, I might stay a few minutes to make sure someone came back quickly & if it has been 5-10 minutes, then I might take action. IMO, it is being a busy body to call the police for a child that isn't in danger at that moment. But, then I will leave my kids in the car, so I am a horrible parent, so what do I know. I am the owner of a pet and yes if a pet is left in a car without a window cracked I instantly call the police. I have done it before and I will do it again... If you are that much of a jackass to not crack a window I figure you can afford to lose a window. I am not going into the store to try to find you or stick around and see if you will run out, I am dialing 911. The child might not have been in danger in that moment but that is probably why the person recorded it, to have proof of how long the lady actually left her kid in the car while running errands. Again I only have her side and I highly doubt it is 100% honest and true. And if I was that nosy buddy I would have called 911 the second she stepped away from the car and not bother with recording or waiting. I am not going to confront you and tell you how to parent but I am going to call the police on you and you can deal with them. I guess I am a nosy buddy. I rather that then seeing on the 10:00 news that the kid I ignored because it was none of my business died frying in the backseat of mommy's car while she was busy shopping for only 5 minutes.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Jun 19, 2014 12:50:40 GMT -5
Our local paper recently had a tip for parents: place a teddy bear in the car seat when it's empty. When the child is placed in the car seat, the teddy is moved to the front passenger seat. When the parent reaches their destination, the teddy is a reminder that the child is in the back seat.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 12:50:48 GMT -5
I'll admit I leave my 4 year old in the van when I run into the gas station for things like milk/eggs.I wouldn't feel comfortable with that, personally, especially if it was so hot you had to leave the car running. Because it would be pretty easy for someone to make off with the car and the kid. And as this article points out, you could be arrested for doing so. I know it's possible, but I live in an area where everyone leaves there car running outside the gas station to go in for stuff. I'll bet you anything he's not the only kid sitting out there, it's really common.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jun 19, 2014 12:52:24 GMT -5
She needs to learn how to be firm with the kid. If the kid refused to get out of the car after insisting on going, I'd have picked him up and carried him in. Right now, she's teaching him that he can do whatever he wants and she'll cave. That, imo, is a bigger issue than having left him in the car (and I seriously doubt it was only 5 minutes) I don't know 99% of the time I firm with my kids. I don't give in and I don't let them win the debate, but if I'm stressed to the max (and I would imagine getting ready to fly with 2 little kids would do that to a person), sometimes standing strong doesn't work. Sometimes I don't have that extra gear needed to stand firm. Sorry, I'm human. Just because someone caves once doesn't mean that it is a regular thing or something she is teaching her kids that they can win. I totally get the stress, but she didn't cave once. She caved twice and it seems that caving is her normal pattern...
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Jun 19, 2014 12:54:21 GMT -5
I'm with Carl on this one. I never once left my kids in the car because I knew I could never live with myself should something happen to them. No 5min. to grab something inside a store or whatever errand was more important to me than their safety.
I'm not judging anyone else; each is free to parent as they see fit. But if some errand was life or death or had to be done RIGHT NOW then an unhappy, crying child can come in with me. They'll get over it and we'd all be happy again in a few minutes afterwards.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 12:54:22 GMT -5
Maybe it is just me, but when I leave the kids anywhere alone I am constantly checking the time. I check my phone the minute I walk away from the car & keep checking it to make sure I am not leaving them too long. So, when I say that I rarely leave my kids in the car alone for more than 5 minutes, I know it because I keep track. I do the same thing when the kids are playing out front & try to always glance out the window at a minimum every 5 minutes. Whether or not that is true for this lady, or if other parents are like me, I have no idea. But, she might know exactly how long she left her kid. If it was truly a 5 minute errand, then I would call this other person a busy body. If I found a pet or kid in the car on a mild day, I wouldn't instantly call the police, nor would I film it or record the license plate. Depending on the situation, I might stay a few minutes to make sure someone came back quickly & if it has been 5-10 minutes, then I might take action. IMO, it is being a busy body to call the police for a child that isn't in danger at that moment. But, then I will leave my kids in the car, so I am a horrible parent, so what do I know. I am the owner of a pet and yes if a pet is left in a car without a window cracked I instantly call the police. I have done it before and I will do it again... If you are that much of a jackass to not crack a window I figure you can afford to lose a window. I am not going into the store to try to find you or stick around and see if you will run out, I am dialing 911. The child might not have been in danger in that moment but that is probably why the person recorded it, to have proof of how long the lady actually left her kid in the car while running errands. Again I only have her side and I highly doubt it is 100% honest and true. And if I was that nosy buddy I would have called 911 the second she stepped away from the car and not bother with recording or waiting. I am not going to confront you and tell you how to parent but I am going to call the police on you and you can deal with them. I guess I am a nosy buddy. I rather that then seeing on the 10:00 news that the kid I ignored because it was none of my business died frying in the backseat of mommy's car while she was busy shopping for only 5 minutes. Except the kid isn't going to fry in 5 minutes. That is what kills me, if you are gone by the time the cops get there, your kid wasn't in danger from heat. It isn't the kids in the gas station parking lot that are dying from heat stroke - it is the parents that forgot to drop their kids off at daycare and are stuck in the car all day.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jun 19, 2014 12:55:15 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing. I have three kids, winning sometimes isn't worth it & you have to pick your battles. IMHO, There should be no picking of battles. A parent should win every one of them.That's the way we were raised. Teenage years and college were not kind to us as we had the freedom to do what we wanted but none of the decision making skills. Let's just say that 3 of the 4 now have kids and none of us are raising them this way. We may be strict with DD but we will admit when we were wrong or reconsider at times.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 19, 2014 12:55:17 GMT -5
Maybe it is just me, but when I leave the kids anywhere alone I am constantly checking the time. I check my phone the minute I walk away from the car & keep checking it to make sure I am not leaving them too long. So, when I say that I rarely leave my kids in the car alone for more than 5 minutes, I know it because I keep track. I do the same thing when the kids are playing out front & try to always glance out the window at a minimum every 5 minutes. Whether or not that is true for this lady, or if other parents are like me, I have no idea. But, she might know exactly how long she left her kid. If it was truly a 5 minute errand, then I would call this other person a busy body. If I found a pet or kid in the car on a mild day, I wouldn't instantly call the police, nor would I film it or record the license plate. Depending on the situation, I might stay a few minutes to make sure someone came back quickly & if it has been 5-10 minutes, then I might take action. IMO, it is being a busy body to call the police for a child that isn't in danger at that moment. But, then I will leave my kids in the car, so I am a horrible parent, so what do I know. I am the owner of a pet and yes if a pet is left in a car without a window cracked I instantly call the police. I have done it before and I will do it again... If you are that much of a jackass to not crack a window I figure you can afford to lose a window. I am not going into the store to try to find you or stick around and see if you will run out, I am dialing 911. The child might not have been in danger in that moment but that is probably why the person recorded it, to have proof of how long the lady actually left her kid in the car while running errands. Again I only have her side and I highly doubt it is 100% honest and true. And if I was that nosy buddy I would have called 911 the second she stepped away from the car and not bother with recording or waiting. I am not going to confront you and tell you how to parent but I am going to call the police on you and you can deal with them. I guess I am a nosy buddy. I rather that then seeing on the 10:00 news that the kid I ignored because it was none of my business died frying in the backseat of mommy's car while she was busy shopping for only 5 minutes. Cracking the window doesn't necessarily help for dogs. If it's hot outside all that does is let cool air escape heating the car up faster. As for a concern about fresh air - I was sick but somewhere I needed to drive 2 hours home, I was in a parking garage and slept in the backseat for 2 hours...no cracked windows or car running and I didn't run out of air. If you read the article it was a cool day - 50 degrees. While cars can heat up even on cool days, it would take a while to get close to frying temperatures and five minutes wouldn't do that. The guy did call 911 and she was in, out, and gone before they even showed up. Since they obviously see it as a big deal there, my assumption is that lends credence to her statement that it's a short trip because cops response time is usually pretty fast.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 13:09:20 GMT -5
Maybe it is just me, but when I leave the kids anywhere alone I am constantly checking the time. I check my phone the minute I walk away from the car & keep checking it to make sure I am not leaving them too long. So, when I say that I rarely leave my kids in the car alone for more than 5 minutes, I know it because I keep track. I do the same thing when the kids are playing out front & try to always glance out the window at a minimum every 5 minutes. Whether or not that is true for this lady, or if other parents are like me, I have no idea. But, she might know exactly how long she left her kid. If it was truly a 5 minute errand, then I would call this other person a busy body. If I found a pet or kid in the car on a mild day, I wouldn't instantly call the police, nor would I film it or record the license plate. Depending on the situation, I might stay a few minutes to make sure someone came back quickly & if it has been 5-10 minutes, then I might take action. IMO, it is being a busy body to call the police for a child that isn't in danger at that moment. But, then I will leave my kids in the car, so I am a horrible parent, so what do I know. I am the owner of a pet and yes if a pet is left in a car without a window cracked I instantly call the police. I have done it before and I will do it again... If you are that much of a jackass to not crack a window I figure you can afford to lose a window. I am not going into the store to try to find you or stick around and see if you will run out, I am dialing 911. The child might not have been in danger in that moment but that is probably why the person recorded it, to have proof of how long the lady actually left her kid in the car while running errands. Again I only have her side and I highly doubt it is 100% honest and true. And if I was that nosy buddy I would have called 911 the second she stepped away from the car and not bother with recording or waiting. I am not going to confront you and tell you how to parent but I am going to call the police on you and you can deal with them. I guess I am a nosy buddy. I rather that then seeing on the 10:00 news that the kid I ignored because it was none of my business died frying in the backseat of mommy's car while she was busy shopping for only 5 minutes. even with the windows cracked the car heats up really quickly. any time the temperature is above 70, an animal should not be left in a car.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 19, 2014 13:11:39 GMT -5
Carl- does your store have a corporate policy like Target? Are you allowed to make an intercom call for customers if someone comes in to report a dog or child left unattended in a locked car?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 13:13:04 GMT -5
I'm with Carl on this one. I never once left my kids in the car because I knew I could never live with myself should something happen to them. No 5min. to grab something inside a store or whatever errand was more important to me than their safety. I'm not judging anyone else; each is free to parent as they see fit. But if some errand was life or death or had to be done RIGHT NOW then an unhappy, crying child can come in with me. They'll get over it and we'd all be happy again in a few minutes afterwards. I agree 100 percent. Its just about the extra effort.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 13:24:25 GMT -5
I'm with Carl on this one. I never once left my kids in the car because I knew I could never live with myself should something happen to them. No 5min. to grab something inside a store or whatever errand was more important to me than their safety. I'm not judging anyone else; each is free to parent as they see fit. But if some errand was life or death or had to be done RIGHT NOW then an unhappy, crying child can come in with me. They'll get over it and we'd all be happy again in a few minutes afterwards. I agree 100 percent. Its just about the extra effort. Not always. Sometimes it is about the sleeping baby and taking the sleeping baby out of a car for 5 minutes when it is 20 degrees outside.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 19, 2014 13:26:22 GMT -5
I don't have kids and I have no opinion other than I can't think of a scenerio where I would leave my kid in the car for one second. However, I understand I'm completely clueless about being overtired and just not willing to fight.
The problem I have with this article is all her excuses and her blaming everyone else but herself. She blames the person who turned her in, her kids for making her tired, wanting to get home to her hubby, the police....everyone but herself.
She made a mistake. Own it, pay for it and don't do it again. I don't know who was right and wrong in this situation and I have no idea what I would have done, but I know if I make a mistake, it isn't everybody else's fault I got caught. The whole world here isn't wrong. She was.
Was there a complete overreaction? I don't know. Possibly. I can tell you if I saw a 4 year old locked in a car all by themselves, I'd call someone, too. Overheating isn't the only bad thing that could happen. The world is dfiferent than it was 20 years ago.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 19, 2014 13:29:40 GMT -5
I agree 100 percent. Its just about the extra effort. Not always. Sometimes it is about the sleeping baby and taking the sleeping baby out of a car for 5 minutes when it is 20 degrees outside. And sometimes it's the best option in a trying/lousy situation.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 13:29:44 GMT -5
Yep. People are nosier and it is statistically safer.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 19, 2014 13:33:54 GMT -5
Definitely different than when I was a kid 20 years ago...
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 13:43:35 GMT -5
If it's truly 5 minutes, then yeah - the chances of something happening are slim. But if you're walking through a parking lot and you see a kid in the car, how are you supposed to know how long they've been there? Maybe 30 seconds, maybe 5 hours.
Too bad for the parent if someone "overreacts" when they really were gone for only 5 minutes - but to me, that is part of the risk of leaving a young kid in a car and why I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with it.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 19, 2014 13:51:19 GMT -5
First comment I read on the article, and I like how it puts things in perspective.
Just gotta add that kids dying from anything is awful, but in the scheme of things that kill kids there are bigger threats that people treat as no big deal.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 13:52:30 GMT -5
And that is why I wouldn't do it at a place where you might be there a while - Walmart, a grocery store, the mall. But if you walk by a kid in the car at a gas station - do you think the kid has been there a while? Of course not, because no one stays at those places long. Daycare? The one time I had DD with me when I dropped DS off, I left her in the car. When I stopped at my office, I pulled right up next to the building, blocking the drive lane, it was obvious I was going to be in and out.
I would be curious to see what kind of store the mom ran into, if it was a place where she could park close to the door or if she was running into a Walmart/Target situation where there is a lot more space between the mom and the car.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 19, 2014 13:55:10 GMT -5
And that is why I wouldn't do it at a place where you might be there a while - Walmart, a grocery store, the mall. But if you walk by a kid in the car at a gas station - do you think the kid has been there a while? Of course not, because no one stays at those places long. Daycare? The one time I had DD with me when I dropped DS off, I left her in the car. When I stopped at my office, I pulled right up next to the building, blocking the drive lane, it was obvious I was going to be in and out.
I would be curious to see what kind of store the mom ran into, if it was a place where she could park close to the door or if she was running into a Walmart/Target situation where there is a lot more space between the mom and the car. If I recall correctly, it was a Best Buy type store to get replacement headphones for the kid for the plane ride home.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 14:04:33 GMT -5
First comment I read on the article, and I like how it puts things in perspective. Just gotta add that kids dying from anything is awful, but in the scheme of things that kill kids there are bigger threats that people treat as no big deal. The reason it is a big deal is because it is an "unnecessary death", something that could have easily been avoided. Take the kid out of the car with you if you are going inside to shop. How hard is that? Glad that double digits is nothing to that person, but that is still double digits that could have not happened and cod have been avoided. But everyone thinks it is not going to happen to them, not to their kids, not their family ... Till it does.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 19, 2014 14:05:31 GMT -5
IMHO, There should be no picking of battles. A parent should win every one of them. What long term independence are you teaching your kids with that? I want my kids to be able to effectively communicate with most people, especially those in authority. That starts with how they talk to me. I do agree with this. Kids should be able to speak up, share their opinions & not blindly follow authority. That doesn't mean tantrums are ok, but thinking for themselves is a plus. I worry about my kids for a lot of reasons. So, I play a lot of situational games with my son to try to teach him to think & how to handle an emergency. "What should you do if I was supposed to pick you up from school, but I'm not there when you come out" "What should you do if (some other person) comes to pick you up from school, but you were told you were going to X today" "What should you do if ...." Then we talk through it. I'm honestly not that worried about leaving my kids in the car anymore because 2 of them are old enough to get out if needed & they are smart enough to not sit in the car if it gets really hot. We've actually talked through that scenario and what to do if someone walks up & tries to get them to get out of the car. DS is a smart cookie & not going to die if out of my view for 5 minutes when left in a relatively safe situation.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jun 19, 2014 14:06:50 GMT -5
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jun 19, 2014 14:09:58 GMT -5
She needs to learn how to be firm with the kid. If the kid refused to get out of the car after insisting on going, I'd have picked him up and carried him in. Right now, she's teaching him that he can do whatever he wants and she'll cave. That, imo, is a bigger issue than having left him in the car (and I seriously doubt it was only 5 minutes) I don't know 99% of the time I firm with my kids. I don't give in and I don't let them win the debate, but if I'm stressed to the max (and I would imagine getting ready to fly with 2 little kids would do that to a person), sometimes standing strong doesn't work. Sometimes I don't have that extra gear needed to stand firm. Sorry, I'm human. Just because someone caves once doesn't mean that it is a regular thing or something she is teaching her kids that they can win. I think I'm probably the exact opposite of you. I don't mind when my kids question, as long as it's done respectfully, because I want them to understand that there is a reason behind it. I actually don't think adults deserve automatically respect just because they are older. I want my kids to be able to question adults when they are being asses. I was being a bit condescending to my 6-year old and he said "Please don't talk to me like that" and, he was right and I deserved to have that pointed out. As for when it's stressful, I typically am a little more like a tyrant because I have little patience. That's when I cut off the questioning and tell them to do what I say. It works so well that I'm tempted to do it more
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 19, 2014 14:11:34 GMT -5
Intersting that all the people who post "Oh lordy, I would never leave my child in the car like that either do not have kids, or raised kids back when dinosaurs roamed the earth.
Those of us who have little kids are like, "Yeah, in a perfect world I wouldn't leave my kid alone but sometimes shit happens."
Would I leave my 6 and 8 year old alone going to target? No. Have I left them alone when going in to get a gallon of milk at the convenience store? Yes. When they were little, getting 2 kids out of car seats and attempting to corral them into the store was often a nightmare, or somebody was sleeping, or about to have a tantrum, or it was -40 and they kicked their boots off and threw their mittens in the back of the minivan.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 14:12:26 GMT -5
First comment I read on the article, and I like how it puts things in perspective. Just gotta add that kids dying from anything is awful, but in the scheme of things that kill kids there are bigger threats that people treat as no big deal. The reason it is a big deal is because it is an "unnecessary death", something that could have easily been avoided. Take the kid out of the car with you if you are going inside to shop. How hard is that? Glad that double digits is nothing to that person, but that is still double digits that could have not happened and cod have been avoided. But everyone thinks it is not going to happen to them, not to their kids, not their family ... Till it does. How about we look at the actual statistics for the situation we are talking about- Intentionally leaving a child in the car to go shopping. 108/15years = 7.2 deaths a year in a 15 year period. So out of the millions of kids intentionally left alone in the car every year, death happens on average to 7 kids.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 14:12:47 GMT -5
And that is why I wouldn't do it at a place where you might be there a while - Walmart, a grocery store, the mall. But if you walk by a kid in the car at a gas station - do you think the kid has been there a while? Of course not, because no one stays at those places long. Daycare? The one time I had DD with me when I dropped DS off, I left her in the car. When I stopped at my office, I pulled right up next to the building, blocking the drive lane, it was obvious I was going to be in and out.
I would be curious to see what kind of store the mom ran into, if it was a place where she could park close to the door or if she was running into a Walmart/Target situation where there is a lot more space between the mom and the car. I don't do the Walmart, Target or grocery store either (except with the 12 year old) But the gas station I'm parked literally 5 feet from the door (most of the times), the front of the building is mostly glass and if I was ever in there 5 minutes that would be an extreme case. Normally it's 1-2 minutes.
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