Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 11:36:05 GMT -5
I'll admit I leave my 4 year old in the van when I run into the gas station for things like milk/eggs.
I wouldn't feel comfortable with that, personally, especially if it was so hot you had to leave the car running. Because it would be pretty easy for someone to make off with the car and the kid. And as this article points out, you could be arrested for doing so.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 19, 2014 11:37:46 GMT -5
I'll admit I leave my 4 year old in the van when I run into the gas station for things like milk/eggs. It would take me longer to take him in and out of the carseat than the entire trip in and back would take. If it's hot or cold the van is running and he's more than likely watching an episode of Blue's Clues or something. I've left my DD in the car when I pick up ds from dcp sometimes. And it's running so she can keep on hearing her favorite songs. Some days she wants to come in with me, others she doesn't. But she was 5 before I started doing this. And she's my rule follower so I feel ok that she'll just sit there until we get out.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 19, 2014 11:38:17 GMT -5
Thank goodness the morning was cool, but now I can plainly see how easily someone, frantically trying to get through their day, could accidentally leave a child. Our day and trip wasn't frantic and we forgot OUR baby!
It happens more than you think, usually when the person's routine is disrupted. Apparently it's much more common now than it was when car seats were in the front because then you could clearly see whether your kid was in there or not. Now, with back-facing infant seats, it can be really easy to forget the kid is there if you're doing something out of the norm and go on "autopilot" for your morning routine.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 19, 2014 11:42:29 GMT -5
Aren't the odds a lot greater of your kid dying or being injured in a car accident than a car being stolen with a kid inside or a kid being kidnapped? Yet no one calls the cops on your for driving your kids around.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 19, 2014 11:46:14 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more.
Was it here that someone posted an article on the Canadian Wal-Mart employee who was fired for following a customer into the store and telling them they shouldn't have left their dog in the car? (I remember the article quoting the manager as saying that she was fired for not following proper procedure (telling the manager), not for confronting the customer).
The next time I see a dog in a hot car (which, sadly, around here is pretty common) I will go into the store and tell them it's a kid and see if the response is different. I hope it would be, but you never know. I will report back!
Here, unless the child actually dies, it's charged as child neglect (the lowest-level felony). But I haven't heard of anyone here being charged unless the child was actually in danger.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 19, 2014 11:50:53 GMT -5
From your computer in jail when they call the police thinking it's a kid because of your false report.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 19, 2014 11:56:03 GMT -5
DS had a nanny until he was 2 and then we moved and he went to a home daycare. DH and I got in the habit every morning of calling the other person to verify they dropped the Boy off at daycare. We were so used to just leaving him home with the nanny that we were afraid we'd forget. We never did, but even now that the kid is 16 DH will still text me at 8:00am every morning to say "did you get the Boy off to school ok?" I make the same run every work day for months at a time and there are at least half a dozen times this school year that I've driven straight past his school and not realize it until he start snickering and says "forget to drop me off again?" I'd like to think I'd realize it before I got to work but honestly I can't say that I for sure would.
We didn't like to leave him in the car (to wait while we'd run into a store) until he was like 9 or 10. My mom went in the a dryer cleaner once and left three of us in the car. My idiot brother decided to climb into the front seat and kicked the car into neutral. We were on a hill and the car backed into traffic. My mom ran from the store screaming after the car- we were in the car freaking out. Other cars are slamming on their brakes. Luckily we were fine and no one hit the car but that was the last time she let us wait in the car until we were teenagers.
Even now he'll want to wait in the car and I half wonder if someone out there things it makes me a bad parent to let my 16 year old wait in the running car while I am in Walgreens for 5 minutes.
I don't know that I'd have left my 4 year old in the car like this lady did. But having had many arguments with a 4 year old in the past I can almost understand her logic. Doesn't make it the smart decision but I can see what she was trying to do.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 11:57:17 GMT -5
Funny, for every one that said the person was a busy buddy no one considered what could have been the "worst case scenario".
Off course the author said it was only 5 minutes, she is defending herself there and she will present herself under the best light possible. To every story there is 3 sides, he side, the bystander side and the actual truth.
Enraged? She left a 4 year old in a car unattended and went to shop for what she said was "5" minutes. But she is the one that get to play the "enraged" card and I am the victim of a busy buddy.
If only all those other kids that died in cars from having forgetful parents had a busy buddy around to call the cops.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 19, 2014 11:59:41 GMT -5
www.sallycphotography.com/archives/2005
This lady left her daughter in the minivan while she stood next to it chatting with a friend.
Baylor is not my quiet kid, so I was pleased to think that she was peacefully reading in the car and not opening and closing the door incessantly. As I stood about five feet from my car I felt confident that she was in a safe place. I was so wrong.
Scary stuff.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 19, 2014 12:02:07 GMT -5
Interesting and not sure what to think. Regarding the article...what didn't sit too well with me was how the mom supposedly had that debate with her son, about not wanting to come into the store. She was in this big hurry, but had time to debate with her son? It just seemed kind of made up to me. I totally have had those debates. And when the kid wants to stay in the car, then it can be a huge PITA to get them inside because you may have potential tantrum on your hands, which takes more time. I once left the kids in the car to take DS2 into daycare. One of the teachers lectured me, not really saying it was a bad idea, but likely another parent would call the police and I would lose custody. So I have never left them in the car there again. But, sometimes they want to be left in the car & get mad I won't let them. So now I have to drag in a upset 5 year old & a 3 year old throwing a tantrum (think refusing to get out of car or getting out of car & sitting on the ground screaming NO), to drop off a 6 month old. It is freaking awesome So, I believe a 1 minute debate might have occurred. I also believe that the 1 minute debate is short when you consider the time it can take to get an angry kid out of a car & run your errand & get them back into the car.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Jun 19, 2014 12:03:37 GMT -5
Personally, I think what she did was wrong (4 is too young to be left alone in a car, even for a few minutes, unless you're going to be six feet away - e.g. visiting the ATM or parking meter). So when I was 4 my mother went into a store and left me in the car with my dad. I was in the backseat and my dad was asleep in the passenger seat. We were parked on a hill and the car started to roll backward toward the store. I called to Dad, who didn't wake up (he sleeps like the dead), so i let myself out of my seat and scrambled into the floor of the driver's seat and pushed the brake. About that time Mom came flying out of the store because she saw the car rolling. When she opened the door, I was sitting down there depressing the brake and Dad was still asleep. Moral of the story, leaving adults in cars isn't a good idea either. Dad was lucky to have a babysitter.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 19, 2014 12:04:13 GMT -5
From your computer in jail when they call the police thinking it's a kid because of your false report. It was an honest mistake... I just thought it was an ugly, furry baby.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 19, 2014 12:05:37 GMT -5
Carl has a point. I've been thinking about this. So the bystander that taped it. He or She I assume felt that the child was safer with him standing there than if he walked away and someone worse came by. At least that's how I imagine the scenario. Probably was timing the mom and had one of those mental "in 2 minutes I'm calling the cops" things going on and was afraid to walk into the store and leave the kid unattended.
DH assumes that at some point I will get shot for being a pain in people's butts but I don't really care. I'm that bitchy person that will walk up to people in the walmart and tell them there 2 year old really should have been in a carseat or that they shouldn't leave their dog in the car or what have you. I'm kind of a busy body like that. I, however, do confront the person rather than call the cops. However, had it been 90 degrees and the kid was in distress I'd have called the cops before leaving the kid to try to track down the parent.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 12:05:53 GMT -5
I'll admit I leave my 4 year old in the van when I run into the gas station for things like milk/eggs.I wouldn't feel comfortable with that, personally, especially if it was so hot you had to leave the car running. Because it would be pretty easy for someone to make off with the car and the kid. And as this article points out, you could be arrested for doing so. My fear would be...what if something should happen while I'm in the store, like I have a heart attack or we're all held hostage? No one would know my kid was in the car.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 19, 2014 12:07:23 GMT -5
www.sallycphotography.com/archives/2005
This lady left her daughter in the minivan while she stood next to it chatting with a friend.
Baylor is not my quiet kid, so I was pleased to think that she was peacefully reading in the car and not opening and closing the door incessantly. As I stood about five feet from my car I felt confident that she was in a safe place. I was so wrong.
Scary stuff. It is. Thanks for sharing this one.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 19, 2014 12:09:37 GMT -5
This is the other side.
DD still wakes up several times every night, so I have been incredibly sleep-deprived for the last 6 months or so. My memory is terrible. I am vigilant about checking to make sure DH picked her up on the days he is supposed to pick her up, and checking the backseat when I get to work, because by the time I get somewhere I have trouble remembering what happened 5 minutes earlier.
If I were to (Gd forbid) leave DD in the car one of these days, I would hope someone would do something. I would rather deal with a criminal investigation/CPS/etc. than have a dead child.
But I also see how a minor, harmless incident could be overblown and turn into a frenzy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 12:09:42 GMT -5
Interesting and not sure what to think. Regarding the article...what didn't sit too well with me was how the mom supposedly had that debate with her son, about not wanting to come into the store. She was in this big hurry, but had time to debate with her son? It just seemed kind of made up to me. I totally have had those debates. And when the kid wants to stay in the car, then it can be a huge PITA to get them inside because you may have potential tantrum on your hands, which takes more time. I once left the kids in the car to take DS2 into daycare. One of the teachers lectured me, not really saying it was a bad idea, but likely another parent would call the police and I would lose custody. So I have never left them in the car there again. But, sometimes they want to be left in the car & get mad I won't let them. So now I have to drag in a upset 5 year old & a 3 year old throwing a tantrum (think refusing to get out of car or getting out of car & sitting on the ground screaming NO), to drop off a 6 month old. It is freaking awesome So, I believe a 1 minute debate might have occurred. I also believe that the 1 minute debate is short when you consider the time it can take to get an angry kid out of a car & run your errand & get them back into the car. My opinion is that if a child that young is being raised to win ANY debate with the parent, then watch out world when they get to be teens.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 19, 2014 12:11:20 GMT -5
Funny, for every one that said the person was a busy buddy no one considered what could have been the "worst case scenario". Off course the author said it was only 5 minutes, she is defending herself there and she will present herself under the best light possible. To every story there is 3 sides, he side, the bystander side and the actual truth. Enraged? She left a 4 year old in a car unattended and went to shop for what she said was "5" minutes. But she is the one that get to play the "enraged" card and I am the victim of a busy buddy. If only all those other kids that died in cars from having forgetful parents had a busy buddy around to call the cops. Maybe it is just me, but when I leave the kids anywhere alone I am constantly checking the time. I check my phone the minute I walk away from the car & keep checking it to make sure I am not leaving them too long. So, when I say that I rarely leave my kids in the car alone for more than 5 minutes, I know it because I keep track. I do the same thing when the kids are playing out front & try to always glance out the window at a minimum every 5 minutes. Whether or not that is true for this lady, or if other parents are like me, I have no idea. But, she might know exactly how long she left her kid. If it was truly a 5 minute errand, then I would call this other person a busy body. If I found a pet or kid in the car on a mild day, I wouldn't instantly call the police, nor would I film it or record the license plate. Depending on the situation, I might stay a few minutes to make sure someone came back quickly & if it has been 5-10 minutes, then I might take action. IMO, it is being a busy body to call the police for a child that isn't in danger at that moment. But, then I will leave my kids in the car, so I am a horrible parent, so what do I know.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 19, 2014 12:12:33 GMT -5
I'll admit I leave my 4 year old in the van when I run into the gas station for things like milk/eggs.I wouldn't feel comfortable with that, personally, especially if it was so hot you had to leave the car running. Because it would be pretty easy for someone to make off with the car and the kid. And as this article points out, you could be arrested for doing so. My fear would be...what if something should happen while I'm in the store, like I have a heart attack or we're all held hostage? No one would know my kid was in the car. Well, if you're all held hostage the kid is safer in the car.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 19, 2014 12:17:15 GMT -5
I totally have had those debates. And when the kid wants to stay in the car, then it can be a huge PITA to get them inside because you may have potential tantrum on your hands, which takes more time. I once left the kids in the car to take DS2 into daycare. One of the teachers lectured me, not really saying it was a bad idea, but likely another parent would call the police and I would lose custody. So I have never left them in the car there again. But, sometimes they want to be left in the car & get mad I won't let them. So now I have to drag in a upset 5 year old & a 3 year old throwing a tantrum (think refusing to get out of car or getting out of car & sitting on the ground screaming NO), to drop off a 6 month old. It is freaking awesome So, I believe a 1 minute debate might have occurred. I also believe that the 1 minute debate is short when you consider the time it can take to get an angry kid out of a car & run your errand & get them back into the car. My opinion is that if a child that young is being raised to win ANY debate with the parent, then watch out world when they get to be teens. They don't win the debate, but they make it quite difficult to get them out of the car after they've been shut down.
EIther your kids weren't normal, or you have some amnesia about how kids can dig their heels in at the stupidest things.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 19, 2014 12:17:37 GMT -5
I'll admit I leave my 4 year old in the van when I run into the gas station for things like milk/eggs.I wouldn't feel comfortable with that, personally, especially if it was so hot you had to leave the car running. Because it would be pretty easy for someone to make off with the car and the kid. And as this article points out, you could be arrested for doing so. My fear would be...what if something should happen while I'm in the store, like I have a heart attack or we're all held hostage? No one would know my kid was in the car. I have that fear too. I also have the fear that I might get run over by a car returning a cart to one of those cart returns & no one will realize my kids are in the car. Or I have the fear I will fall down the stairs in the house when the kids are already buckled in the car & I had to grab one last thing. Or I have the fear that when loading up the car first, I will trip in the garage & be knocked unconcious & the kids will be in the house alone. My point is, there is never a time when you can 100% be around your kid & shit happens. This is why I never leave them in the car on a warm/hot day regardless of how quick my errand will be. Because a 10 minute delay could be really bad. A 10 minute delay on a really mild day wouldn't be the end of the world. And honestly more than that is really unlikely. The odds of any scenarios that go on in my head are so miniscule that I can't run my life around them.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 19, 2014 12:19:53 GMT -5
My opinion is that if a child that young is being raised to win ANY debate with the parent, then watch out world when they get to be teens. They don't win the debate, but they make it quite difficult to get them out of the car after they've been shut down.
EIther your kids weren't normal, or you have some amnesia about how kids can dig their heels in at the stupidest things.
I was thinking the same thing. I have three kids, winning sometimes isn't worth it & you have to pick your battles.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jun 19, 2014 12:21:03 GMT -5
I totally have had those debates. And when the kid wants to stay in the car, then it can be a huge PITA to get them inside because you may have potential tantrum on your hands, which takes more time. I once left the kids in the car to take DS2 into daycare. One of the teachers lectured me, not really saying it was a bad idea, but likely another parent would call the police and I would lose custody. So I have never left them in the car there again. But, sometimes they want to be left in the car & get mad I won't let them. So now I have to drag in a upset 5 year old & a 3 year old throwing a tantrum (think refusing to get out of car or getting out of car & sitting on the ground screaming NO), to drop off a 6 month old. It is freaking awesome So, I believe a 1 minute debate might have occurred. I also believe that the 1 minute debate is short when you consider the time it can take to get an angry kid out of a car & run your errand & get them back into the car. My opinion is that if a child that young is being raised to win ANY debate with the parent, then watch out world when they get to be teens. My theory is that children are small people who have valid opinions and ideas and have a right to be heard. I don't debate much but certainly discuss things with my almost 5 year old. Sometimes I change my mind, sometimes not. But I think giving kids a chance to make decisions and live the consequences are more important than teaching them to follow rules blindly. I wouldn't leave my 4 year old in a car alone. He's opened his car door twice while I'm driving -once while stopped at a red light but still-and I about lost my shit so I don't want to encourage him to get in and out of the car by himself. Plus he sometimes turns on the child lock on the door and I wouldn't realize he couldn't get out. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 12:21:24 GMT -5
My fear would be...what if something should happen while I'm in the store, like I have a heart attack or we're all held hostage? No one would know my kid was in the car. Well, if you're all held hostage the kid is safer in the car. LOL!!! You're right, that is until the day got hotter.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 12:26:48 GMT -5
My opinion is that if a child that young is being raised to win ANY debate with the parent, then watch out world when they get to be teens. They don't win the debate, but they make it quite difficult to get them out of the car after they've been shut down.
EIther your kids weren't normal, or you have some amnesia about how kids can dig their heels in at the stupidest things.
Our kids were very normal and when young never debated us, total recall. They learned at a very early age, before they could even walk, who the boss was. Of course, when older we had discussions over disagreements, but our word always ruled.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jun 19, 2014 12:27:28 GMT -5
She needs to learn how to be firm with the kid. If the kid refused to get out of the car after insisting on going, I'd have picked him up and carried him in. Right now, she's teaching him that he can do whatever he wants and she'll cave.
That, imo, is a bigger issue than having left him in the car (and I seriously doubt it was only 5 minutes)
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 12:28:35 GMT -5
I have left my kids in the car. A trip into my office - yep, a trip into the gas station - yep, a trip into Walmart - of course not. I wouldn't do it on a day I have to keep the car running because it is too hot outside, but I have left DD shut in the car on a freezing cold night to run up to my office to grab my paycheck. I also did later that evening to pick up ice cream at the gas station (you can judge, I don't care, DH had back surgery that day and I was heading home from the hospital with a 4 week old baby after spending 12 hours at the hospital with DH and DD). We all do things other people freak out about. We give DS quite a bit of freedom. He can play outside by himself. While he's outside, he's playing with our dog. He's been doing this for 2 years. I don't hover over DD. While we were vacationing, we let the kids roam the campsite and didn't hover over them. We let them wander away from the site before running after them (OK DS stayed close unless he was chasing after DD, he's the rule follower). We let them walk around the beach and didn't hover over them. We would drive around the campground and state parks with them unbuckled in their car seats. I even drove to the camp store with DD sitting on my lap. I read articles like that and thank god some people have common sense and don't freak out about some of our decisions with our kids.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 12:29:50 GMT -5
They don't win the debate, but they make it quite difficult to get them out of the car after they've been shut down.
EIther your kids weren't normal, or you have some amnesia about how kids can dig their heels in at the stupidest things.
I was thinking the same thing. I have three kids, winning sometimes isn't worth it & you have to pick your battles. IMHO, There should be no picking of battles. A parent should win every one of them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 12:31:46 GMT -5
She needs to learn how to be firm with the kid. If the kid refused to get out of the car after insisting on going, I'd have picked him up and carried him in. Right now, she's teaching him that he can do whatever he wants and she'll cave. That, imo, is a bigger issue than having left him in the car (and I seriously doubt it was only 5 minutes) I totally agree.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 19, 2014 12:32:24 GMT -5
She needs to learn how to be firm with the kid. If the kid refused to get out of the car after insisting on going, I'd have picked him up and carried him in. Right now, she's teaching him that he can do whatever he wants and she'll cave. That, imo, is a bigger issue than having left him in the car (and I seriously doubt it was only 5 minutes) I don't know 99% of the time I firm with my kids. I don't give in and I don't let them win the debate, but if I'm stressed to the max (and I would imagine getting ready to fly with 2 little kids would do that to a person), sometimes standing strong doesn't work. Sometimes I don't have that extra gear needed to stand firm. Sorry, I'm human. Just because someone caves once doesn't mean that it is a regular thing or something she is teaching her kids that they can win.
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