thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 14, 2013 8:57:34 GMT -5
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Feb 14, 2013 9:00:33 GMT -5
...yeah, thyme... there's SO many unanswered questions about this... why bring up "guns gone wrong" on it so soon?
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Feb 14, 2013 9:01:39 GMT -5
I really couldn't believe it when I read the article this morning. After seeing all his interviews during the Olympics, he seemed like a genuinely nice guy.
Some articles are saying it was an accident (one coworker said her DH has been to South Africa and it is really a very scary place, I personally don't know) and that she was sneaking in to surprise him for Valentine's Day, and he mistakenly thought she was an intruder. Other articles say there has been a history of domestic violence, but they have only been together for a few months according to other reports.
I hope it's an accident, but we will just have to wait and see.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 14, 2013 9:01:46 GMT -5
There are only two possibilities here - either he killed her in anger, or killed her on accident.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 9:15:31 GMT -5
I'm leaning towards tragic accident. What man shoots a woman trying to give him an early morning booty call on Valentine's Day?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 14, 2013 9:21:00 GMT -5
Well - that's his story. Maybe, if she were alive, her story would be that she was trying to leave because they were fighting. We really don't know, do we?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 9:21:21 GMT -5
She seems way to hot to want to shoot four times.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 14, 2013 9:25:01 GMT -5
Maybe she was crazy-bitch territory. I mean, she probably hasn't eaten in years - so who knows. Just because you are hot doesn't mean you aren't a pain in the ass!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 9:27:13 GMT -5
Well - that's his story. Maybe, if she were alive, her story would be that she was trying to leave because they were fighting. We really don't know, do we? It could be. But I'm guessing she was arriving. I promise to jump on the bandwagon bashing him as a disgusting human being if it turns out she was trying to leave.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 9:28:10 GMT -5
Maybe she was crazy-bitch territory. I mean, she probably hasn't eaten in years - so who knows. Just because you are hot doesn't mean you aren't a pain in the ass! Everyone is a pain in the ass. Might as well be a hot pain in the ass.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Feb 14, 2013 10:21:51 GMT -5
I really want this to be a tragic accident. I made a huge deal about this guy to my kids. I guess it is another reminder to not admire athletes too much. They will let you down. I didn't "idolize" athletes growing up, but I really admired Marion Jones (I was a sprinter/jumper in high school) and even though it was years after I stopped running I was so disappointed to learn she used PEDs. I will strongly encourage my children to never put athletes on a pedestal. I do hope it was just an accident, but who knows.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Feb 14, 2013 13:11:04 GMT -5
Maybe she was abusing him again, as there was a history of domestic violence, and he killed her in self defense.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 14, 2013 13:22:04 GMT -5
I heard on the news he has actually been charged. Do we know anything about the laws of South Africa? It seems here, even in fairly obvious cases, they don't charge people until they are well into the investigation. If there was any weight to the "accident" story, they would be holding off on charging him. Maybe it works different there? Or maybe the 'accident' story was deemed lame right quick?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Feb 14, 2013 13:23:40 GMT -5
I heard on the news he has actually been charged. Do we know anything about the laws of South Africa? It seems here, even in fairly obvious cases, they don't charge people until they are well into the investigation. If there was any weight to the "accident" story, they would be holding off on charging him. Maybe it works different there? Or maybe the 'accident' story was deemed lame right quick? From waht I read, the "accident" was a media speculation. So I'm not sure we even know that he ever claimed it was an accident.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 14, 2013 13:26:13 GMT -5
Disappointing.
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ihearyou2
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Post by ihearyou2 on Feb 14, 2013 13:28:25 GMT -5
They must have some significant evidence showing that it was on purpose versus an accident since they have arrested him.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Feb 14, 2013 13:30:57 GMT -5
They must have some significant evidence showing that it was on purpose versus an accident since they have arrested him. Is it common to let people that you KNOW have shot and killed someone walk around free while you try to figure out if they did it on purpose or not? I'm no legal expert, but to me it seems like pretty standard procedure (or at least should be) to arrest someone when you know they've shot someone twice and killed them.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 14, 2013 13:40:53 GMT -5
They must have some significant evidence showing that it was on purpose versus an accident since they have arrested him. Is it common to let people that you KNOW have shot and killed someone walk around free while you try to figure out if they did it on purpose or not? I'm no legal expert, but to me it seems like pretty standard procedure (or at least should be) to arrest someone when you know they've shot someone twice and killed them. I'm with Hoops on this one. Accidental or otherwise, the arrest and charge would be standard, here and also in South Africa. The arrest does not prove accident versus negligence versus premeditation, one way or another. It shows there is a preponderance of evidence sufficient for reason to arrest and charge him for the crime, not evidence and reason to judge him guilty of it. Prosecutors are asking for no bail in this case, also standard in the U.S., given the gravity of the offense. His global standing would not, and should not come into play. At their equivalent of first appearance, in the regional court, a decision would be made as to whether 1) bail should or should not be granted and 2) whether the charges have merit.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 14, 2013 13:43:40 GMT -5
It took 2 months or something to get Zimmerman charged, because he said it was self-defense. It took 6 hours to get Pistorius charged, BUT, different country.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Feb 14, 2013 13:48:17 GMT -5
It took 2 months or something to get Zimmerman charged, because he said it was self-defense. It took 6 hours to get Pistorius charged, BUT, different country. I'm surprised he was charged this soon, but I'm not surprised he was arrested.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 14, 2013 13:52:15 GMT -5
It took 2 months or something to get Zimmerman charged, because he said it was self-defense. It took 6 hours to get Pistorius charged, BUT, different country. I'm surprised he was charged this soon, but I'm not surprised he was arrested. Can you be arrested but not charged in South Africa? In the US, you pretty much have to be charged with something when you are arrested. Unless it's some kind of terrorist thing as allowed by the Patriot Act, but that's another discussion.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 14, 2013 13:52:54 GMT -5
well, can't he be "charged in the death of..." and then later they can determine if it was murder or self-defense. They would generally arrest for murder if they are going to arrest, and the self defense is an affirmative defense the defendant has to raise at trial.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 14, 2013 14:02:32 GMT -5
Funny part is - I don't know how this works here - much less on the other side of the world. Yes, I proudly know bascially nothing about being arrested for murdering someone. Woo Hoo. One point for me. I only know what Nancy Grace has a chance to tell me while I'm screaming and trying to change the channel.
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ihearyou2
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Post by ihearyou2 on Feb 14, 2013 14:12:31 GMT -5
Going beyond the legalese, I would still suspect that when dealing with a person as well known as Pistorius, they would want to feel damn certain that they have this right. If it is later found out that he is innocent they'll look pretty stupid.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 14, 2013 14:14:49 GMT -5
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 14, 2013 14:16:14 GMT -5
Funny part is - I don't know how this works here - much less on the other side of the world. Yes, I proudly know bascially nothing about being arrested for murdering someone. Woo Hoo. One point for me. I only know what Nancy Grace has a chance to tell me while I'm screaming and trying to change the channel. Nancy Grace doesn't understand how the system works either.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 14, 2013 14:34:44 GMT -5
In the case of Pistorius, he did, and is continuing, to cooperate with the police, which may explain why he was charged quickly. A weapon was found right away, and no one else was in the residence at the time of the incident. Pistorius may well have given authorities sufficient reason to accept the fact that he is indeed the shooter.
In the case of Barajas, the Houston man who allegedly killed the man who killed his two sons, there may have been other issues. A lack of cooperation on the part of the defendant, and the nature of the offense. In this case, prosecutors likely know charging this guy won't exactly make them very popular, so they want to make sure they have all their facts, and have them right. Also, both blood and ballistics tests had to be performed in this case and the results returned, which do take time.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 14, 2013 14:37:27 GMT -5
...yeah, thyme... there's SO many unanswered questions about this... why bring up "guns gone wrong" on it so soon? Thyme just hates the second amendment, freedom, justice, the rule of law, puppies, kids and rainbows. Come on thyme, why are you so full of hate
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 16:10:41 GMT -5
Going beyond the legalese, I would still suspect that when dealing with a person as well known as Pistorius, they would want to feel damn certain that they have this right. If it is later found out that he is innocent they'll look pretty stupid. There doesn't seem to be any doubt he shot her. The only question is why. Maybe in SA why doesn't matter.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 14, 2013 16:21:51 GMT -5
On the contrary: in Commonwealth countries where English law is still prevalent, there is murder and there is culpable homicide. Culpable homicide may be voluntary or involuntary. Murder is obviously the taking of a live with the depraved disregard for that life. Culpable homicide is the causing of a death without criminal intent. In other words, the issue is premeditation. Did he plan to take her life, was her life taken by accident (involuntary) or did he mean to take a life, but did not realize it was hers (voluntary)?
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