swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 11, 2013 20:58:28 GMT -5
Why would that book upset you? Some kids DO have two mommies or two daddies. Nothing wrong with embracing diversity, is there? It's a different culture, but it's a valid culture. Or were you only referring to Biblically-sanctioned cultures? I don't think homosexuality, or any sexual topics of any nature are appropriate for elementary school aged kids. I'd be happy to talk to him of the realities of sexual relationships when they get a bit older. You do realize that girls often start going through puberty at about 10? somebody better talk to them about sex in an age appropriate manner at that time.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 11, 2013 20:59:07 GMT -5
"I don't think homosexuality, or any sexual topics of any nature are appropriate for elementary school aged kids. I'd be happy to talk to him of the realities of sexual relationships when they get a bit older. " On the face of your statement, I agree with you. However, I do think it's important to help children to develop socially by exposing them to the possibility that one or more of their classmates just might have 2 mommies or 2 daddies. There is a difference between talking about the social relationship of a couple and talking about what that couple does when they close the bedroom door.
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grits
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Post by grits on Feb 11, 2013 20:59:30 GMT -5
I don't think homosexuality, or any sexual topics of any nature are appropriate for elementary school aged kids. I'd be happy to talk to him of the realities of sexual relationships when they get a bit older. You do realize that girls often start going through puberty at about 10? somebody better talk to them about sex in an age appropriate manner at that time. Ideally, that would be a female relative.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 21:00:06 GMT -5
No one was talking sex. They were talking having two mommies. If a book mentions a mom and a dad, is that sexual?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 11, 2013 21:01:17 GMT -5
"I don't think homosexuality, or any sexual topics of any nature are appropriate for elementary school aged kids. I'd be happy to talk to him of the realities of sexual relationships when they get a bit older. " On the face of your statement, I agree with you. However, I do think it's important to help children to develop socially by exposing them to the possibility that one or more of their classmates just might have 2 mommies or 2 daddies. It happens and you have to be able to tell the kid what's going on, because they will ask. I've taken my DD to a doc that's transgendered, but I didn't knowmitnwhen I made the appointment. That made for some interesting conversations with a 4 year old who picked up on it.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 11, 2013 21:02:00 GMT -5
You do realize that girls often start going through puberty at about 10? somebody better talk to them about sex in an age appropriate manner at that time. Ideally, that would be a female relative. Ideally, yes. In reality, it's not.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Feb 11, 2013 21:02:30 GMT -5
"I don't think homosexuality, or any sexual topics of any nature are appropriate for elementary school aged kids. I'd be happy to talk to him of the realities of sexual relationships when they get a bit older. " On the face of your statement, I agree with you. However, I do think it's important to help children to develop socially by exposing them to the possibility that one or more of their classmates just might have 2 mommies or 2 daddies. There is a difference between talking about the social relationship of a couple and talking about what that couple does when they close the bedroom door. Of course. But for some folks when discussion of homosexuality comes up the go right to the sex of the matter.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 21:02:37 GMT -5
um, i PUT that "detail" in my post, SF.......i did that for a reason. imo, what they oppose is critical thinking, which MAY undermine parental authority. so, what that says to me is that there is a certain segment of the parental population that seems to think it is a good idea to have kids that don't question them. personally, i think that is a terrible idea. i want my teen questioning me. that is what helps teens become adults. so, effectively what the GOP is saying is that they want people to remain perpetually children, and not to question authority. i think you can probably imagine how i feel about that. but they also specifically mentioned challenging BELIEFS. i can see why they don't like that. i think the agenda is pretty clear, SF. but you apparently don't. must be that belief challenging thing. It is a lot more than that. I had teachers who tried to brain wash us into what they believed. If you disagreed with them in open, you could kiss passing the class goodbye. I had an adjunct instructor who thought everybody was wrong but her. She even ignored the no smoking sign in the room, and practically dared anybody to say a word about it. I had a government teacher who was a total marxist. He tried to sway us to communism. Also, they do in fact belief that theories should be taught as theories, and nobody has the right to make fun of another person because of their religious beliefs. If you are buddhist you have the right to practice it in peace. If you are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu it is to be practiced in peace without assault from the school system. Teachers are not there to teach someone that their beliefs are wrong. They are there to educate you in the way the parents, school system, and state see fit. grits, Human's being are shallows as they are, they usually impose their own belief with conduct they perceive as an conviction of their own truth. That's including myself, unfortunately.
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grits
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Post by grits on Feb 11, 2013 21:03:15 GMT -5
"I don't think homosexuality, or any sexual topics of any nature are appropriate for elementary school aged kids. I'd be happy to talk to him of the realities of sexual relationships when they get a bit older. " On the face of your statement, I agree with you. However, I do think it's important to help children to develop socially by exposing them to the possibility that one or more of their classmates just might have 2 mommies or 2 daddies. It happens and you have to be able to tell the kid what's going on, because they will ask. I've taken my DD to a doc that's transgendered, but I didn't knowmitnwhen I made the appointment. That made for some interesting conversations with a 4 year old who picked up on it. That is the job of the parent to discuss. It is not the school.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 21:04:04 GMT -5
The whole point of teaching critical thinking is so that no one can impose their convictions on you
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grits
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Post by grits on Feb 11, 2013 21:05:30 GMT -5
It is a lot more than that. I had teachers who tried to brain wash us into what they believed. If you disagreed with them in open, you could kiss passing the class goodbye. I had an adjunct instructor who thought everybody was wrong but her. She even ignored the no smoking sign in the room, and practically dared anybody to say a word about it. I had a government teacher who was a total marxist. He tried to sway us to communism. Also, they do in fact belief that theories should be taught as theories, and nobody has the right to make fun of another person because of their religious beliefs. If you are buddhist you have the right to practice it in peace. If you are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu it is to be practiced in peace without assault from the school system. Teachers are not there to teach someone that their beliefs are wrong. They are there to educate you in the way the parents, school system, and state see fit. grits, Human's being are shallows as they are, they usually impose their own belief with conduct they perceive as an conviction of their own truth. That's including myself, unfortunately. I did indeed have some teachers who kept their belief system to themselves, and taught us the facts not their own ideology.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 11, 2013 21:05:50 GMT -5
"On the face of your statement, I agree with you. However, I do think it's important to help children to develop socially by exposing them to the possibility that one or more of their classmates just might have 2 mommies or 2 daddies."
I just think that's the parent's job. If you have kids and want to expose them to the homosexual lifestyle, that's your choice. If someone wants to wait until an age appropriate time to talk about those subjects, I think it's their choice.
Why should a school "take sides" on controversial subjects? How does knowing why Julia has two mommies going to help kids succeed at life?
Remember, teaching homosexuality is "okay" or "normal" is not critical thinking. Critical thinking would be taking evidence and research and coming to that conclusion yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 21:06:06 GMT -5
That's doesn't mean it can be taught,either. billis. There are a number of different models involving steps for a person to take which, when taken, engage the mind in critical thinking that can be taught. You should believe Virgil. He indicated that it was a process. Okay, he attempted at first to claim it wasn't but then just naturally indicated it was as he talked about it. billis, Let's wait see, what it will develop with that concept. [img]http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png[/img]
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grits
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Post by grits on Feb 11, 2013 21:06:49 GMT -5
Ideally, that would be a female relative. Ideally, yes. In reality, it's not. In some cases, maybe not. In some cases yes. Going on personal experience doesn't make it all inclusive for everyone.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 21:08:35 GMT -5
The whole point of teaching critical thinking is so that no one can impose their convictions on you That's the problem, one's view is always reflating themselves. It doesn't really matter what it is.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Feb 11, 2013 21:08:58 GMT -5
"That is the job of the parent to discuss. It is not the school."
I disagree. If you choose to publicly educate your child where there will no doubt be a variety of children raised in differing circumstances it is up to the educator to insure that each child has an understanding and respect for those other students who may be from a different environment.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 11, 2013 21:09:05 GMT -5
I guess I'm the only one who notices the irony of equating critical thinking with teaching homosexuality a certain way as an immutable fact that should not be questioned.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 21:10:18 GMT -5
grits, Human's being are shallows as they are, they usually impose their own belief with conduct they perceive as an conviction of their own truth. That's including myself, unfortunately. I did indeed have some teachers who kept their belief system to themselves, and taught us the facts not their own ideology. That's good to know, grits. None, persuade me other wise.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 11, 2013 21:10:22 GMT -5
"That is the job of the parent to discuss. It is not the school." I disagree. If you choose to publicly educate your child where there will no doubt be a variety of children raised in differing circumstances it is up to the educator to insure that each child has an understanding and respect for those other students who may be from a different environment. I guess we disagree on what public education should be. I think education should be teaching things like reading, writing, doing math, and science, not teaching everyone to get along and sking kombya. If teaching my kid to "understand and respect those other students who may be from a different enviornment" is more important than teaching them how to learn how to do math, science, and english, then I can see why homeschooling is an attractive option.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Feb 11, 2013 21:11:22 GMT -5
"I just think that's the parent's job. If you have kids and want to expose them to the homosexual lifestyle, that's your choice. "
If the child is going to public school, its a good bet they are going to be exposed. Even in Texas. And nobody is being exposed to anyone's "lifestyle". That's just silly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 21:11:34 GMT -5
I don't think reading the two mommies book had nothing to do with critic thinking? In what context was it brought up? I thought that was a tolerance issue. To different things, unless reading the book was part of a larger unit somewhere?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 11, 2013 21:13:39 GMT -5
"I just think that's the parent's job. If you have kids and want to expose them to the homosexual lifestyle, that's your choice. " If the child is going to public school, its a good bet they are going to be exposed. Even in Texas. And nobody is being exposed to anyone's "lifestyle". That's just silly. If the kid sees something and gets curious, and they ask, then it's the parent's job to explain it in a age appropriate manner.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 11, 2013 21:14:28 GMT -5
I guess I'm the only one who notices the irony of equating critical thinking with teaching homosexuality a certain way as an immutable fact that should not be questioned. But a certain percentage of the population is gay. You can't pretend it doesn't exist.
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grits
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Post by grits on Feb 11, 2013 21:16:32 GMT -5
I guess I'm the only one who notices the irony of equating critical thinking with teaching homosexuality a certain way as an immutable fact that should not be questioned. But a certain percentage of the population is gay. You can't pretend it doesn't exist. There is an enormous difference in denying its existence, and in leaving it up to the parents to teach their children about it. Schools are not supposed to exist as places of social indoctrination. They are supposed to be places of basic education.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 21:17:12 GMT -5
Phoenix, you brought up the book It as you equating the two... I think it's a separate discussion, still worthy of comment... But not what you are trying to make it...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 21:18:08 GMT -5
But a certain percentage of the population is gay. You can't pretend it doesn't exist. There is an enormous difference in denying its existence, and in leaving it up to the parents to teach their children about it. Schools are not supposed to exist as places of social indoctrination. They are supposed to be places of basic education. If you look at history, this really isn't true at all...
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 11, 2013 21:18:17 GMT -5
I guess I'm the only one who notices the irony of equating critical thinking with teaching homosexuality a certain way as an immutable fact that should not be questioned. But a certain percentage of the population is gay. You can't pretend it doesn't exist. I never said pretend it doesn't exist, just that school isn't the proper forum to explore those issues.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 11, 2013 21:19:10 GMT -5
But a certain percentage of the population is gay. You can't pretend it doesn't exist. There is an enormous difference in denying its existence, and in leaving it up to the parents to teach their children about it. Schools are not supposed to exist as places of social indoctrination. They are supposed to be places of basic education. What is the school supposed to do when kids ask about Heather who,really does have two mommies?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 21:19:52 GMT -5
The whole point of teaching critical thinking is so that no one can impose their convictions on you IMO, no one can't teach you how to think. I think, it's comes from generic composition of how you are born with. Most of it anyway. Ob course, you can learn of few with time from experiences.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Feb 11, 2013 21:19:59 GMT -5
I guess I'm the only one who notices the irony of equating critical thinking with teaching homosexuality a certain way as an immutable fact that should not be questioned. Um...it's a fact, homosexual people exist. They have for as long as civilization has existed. They are not going away anytime soon. Honestly, ya need to just get over it.
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