Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Nov 12, 2012 1:33:26 GMT -5
"Doctors trying to find some of the causes of autism put another piece into the puzzle on Monday: They found women who had flu while they were pregnant were twice as likely to have a child later diagnosed with autism. Those who had a fever lasting a week or longer -- perhaps caused by flu or maybe by something else -- were three times as likely to have an autistic child. The study of 96,000 children in Denmark raises as many questions as it answers. But it fits in with a growing body of evidence that suggests that, in at least some cases, something is going on with a mother’s immune system during pregnancy that affects the developing child’s brain" vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/12/15056697-flu-fever-linked-with-autism-in-pregnancy-study?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=4What do you all think of this new study? Would this make moms feel better about immunizations if they find this to be correct? Would this worry new moms even more than the shots - if found to be true?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 12, 2012 2:21:46 GMT -5
Correlation does not equal causation.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Nov 12, 2012 2:43:10 GMT -5
This is an interesting study. While I agree with Mich that correlation doesn't equal causation, I think this could help us move forward in identifying the causes of autism. It seems like all of the focus for the autism has been on factors after birth (infant vaccinations, specific foods/food additives, etc) while the culprit may be what happened earlier in the life cycle (i.e. in the womb).
Even without this study, I think it is important for pregnant women to maintain their health and be protected from bacteria and viruses. We know that in a lot of diseases, the bad part of the disease isn't the bacteria/virus itself but is the immune system's reaction and the damage it does in "removing" the pathogen. It seems logical that the reactions which damage adult cells (like inflammation) would be good for developing fetuses.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Nov 12, 2012 2:44:47 GMT -5
As far as immunizations, I don't think this will help sway people one way or the other. People that are against the vaccinations seem to find any reason not to vaccinate and it's hard to convince them of the importance of vaccinations. Everyone else vaccinates already so they don't need to be convinced.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2012 9:15:05 GMT -5
"It is important to bear in mind that when you look at the absolute numbers, we see that around 99 percent of women reporting to have had influenza or fever during pregnancy, do not have children with ASD (autism spectrum disorder)," Atladottir said by email "We do not want pregnant women to worry."
This statement was interesting to me. It suggests that 1% of women with the flu had autistic babies. My understanding of the prevalence of autism is that about 1% of all women have autistic babies.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2012 9:18:18 GMT -5
Are people still worried about the immunization/autism link?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 12, 2012 9:23:16 GMT -5
Are people still worried about the immunization/autism link? Yes. Despite multiple studies debunking the one showing the link, it still continues.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 12, 2012 9:24:19 GMT -5
Are people still worried about the immunization/autism link? I think they're worried that autism rates are skyrocketing and scientists have no idea why.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 12, 2012 9:29:11 GMT -5
Are people still worried about the immunization/autism link? I think they're worried that autism rates are skyrocketing and scientists have no idea why. I don't think the rates are skyrocketing, the labeling is.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Nov 12, 2012 9:41:20 GMT -5
I think they're worried that autism rates are skyrocketing and scientists have no idea why. I don't think the rates are skyrocketing, the labeling is. Right, plus I can't believe that the rate of pregnant women who have flu or fever is skyrocketing, so it doen't add up.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Nov 12, 2012 9:56:01 GMT -5
Are people still worried about the immunization/autism link? I think they're worried that autism rates are skyrocketing and scientists have no idea why. THIS. Funny thing, the only flu shot I've had in my life (excluding possible childhood ones) was when I was pregnant with DS (who has high functioning autism). Doesn't the flu shot cause the flu in a small number of people (or something like that)? Anyway, when my mind spins and spins over what could have caused the autism, I often think of that flu shot - though it's probably not the cause. There's nothing worse as a mother than to wonder if something you did ended up hurting your child.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Nov 12, 2012 10:07:27 GMT -5
Formerly SK, my major beef with the flu shot is that typicallly flu vaccine has mercury in it. The last time I tried to get my kids flu vaccine, although my pediatrician's office ordered in the type without mercury, they only received the type that has mercury. So I skipped their flu shot. DS already has autism, and I've never been able to rule out the vaccines as a possible cause. BUT, I've often wondered about something in DS's case. He was really sick the fall before his symptoms started showing up (of autism). He had a bad case of the croup, and the next month both he & DD had a long-lasting virus. DD's virus morphed into pneumonia, and a few weeks later DS stopped talking completely, & started to "tune us out". I still wonder if that series of events triggered something in his immune system, combining it with vaccinations. Oh, & the school district I live in has a LOT of kids on the autism spectrum. I grew up in an area with a high school with the same number of kids, & I only remember one or two kids who had autistic tendencies. There are WAY more now. I think people just believe that if none of their own kids are autistic, that there's not a problem. It's bad, & it's getting worse...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2012 10:25:33 GMT -5
But way back when high functioning autistic kids weren't classified as autistic, they were just labeled quirky.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2012 10:33:46 GMT -5
DS already has autism, and I've never been able to rule out the vaccines as a possible cause. Why not? What is the threshold of evidence that you would need to rule them out?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 12, 2012 10:35:56 GMT -5
I read/heard that whoever it is that decides what is in the DSM are going to eliminated "Asperger's Syndrome" from the spectrum of diagnosis for autism.
So what happens then?
If that is true and they acutally do it I would be very curious to know if rates of diagnosis go down. If they did that would suggest there isn't a rise in actual cases, but diagnosis.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 12, 2012 10:41:33 GMT -5
No www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/flushot.htmReading this, I'm glad I didn't read it when I was pregnant with my son. I had a flu shot, but it was the year that they got the vaccine "wrong" and a particular nasty strain of the flu went around. I got the flu, and then later I got another flu - twice, fever, aches, cough, laryingytis. I was a freakin' mess during that pregnancy. I also got a stomach bug and threw up for 36 hours - not morning sickness, just a regular old GI bug. My kid was born with antibodies up the ying yang.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Nov 12, 2012 10:44:58 GMT -5
Ever had a kid who had a reaction to their shots? Fever, or sick for a day or two? Mine didn't always react well to shots, but the pediatrician didn't feel the reaction was "severe" enough to discontinue or postpone the shots. If I had it to do over again, I would've had more spacing between the shots, or possibly postponed some doses until they were older. I don't believe in skipping vaccines completely, but you must admit the kids get WAY MORE shots than our generation did. I found my own vaccination records when I was cleaning out Mom's house, & compared it to my kids records. Holy carp!!! Huge difference.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2012 10:51:09 GMT -5
I haven't had any kids react to any shots, but I have a family member who is similarly concerned about vaccinations after having a child with Asperger's.
I'm sorry your kids had bad reactions, but that's not my question. What would convince you that those vaccines were unrelated to your son's ASD?
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telephus44
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Post by telephus44 on Nov 12, 2012 11:07:19 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm torn on studies like this. On the one hand, I think it's great that we can learn more about the causes of autism. On the other hand, it just adds to the guilt load of mothers of autistic children. There was a study reported in the last year that if you took prenatal vitamins in the first 6 weeks that reduced your chance of having a child with autism, but not after 6 weeks. So now moms panic that if they had only known earlier and taken those vitamins that their kid would be "normal." There's studies that show babies born early (37 weeks or earlier) or late (I think the defined late as after 42 weeks) have higer rates of autism.
Like I said - on the one hand, I'm glad that this research can help us understand the disease better. OTOH, the last thing moms of autistic children need is more guilt.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 12, 2012 11:10:45 GMT -5
I think every woman in their 20's should take prenatal vitamins. Your hair looks awesome and grows so fast when you are taking them. If only I had known!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2012 11:12:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I think we are a long way from definitive answers. The media should back off a little bit to let the scientists do their thing.
That said, women of childbearing age should take a daily multivitamin. I don't know baout the autism link, but there is a definitive link between folic acid and the incidence of neural tube defects like spina bifida. The neural tube typically closes or doesn't in very early pregnancy, so the critical window of opportunity is before the first prenatal visit - and often before the woman even realizes that she's pregnant.
[/PSA]
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 12, 2012 11:12:35 GMT -5
I think the problem, personally, isn't so much the research but the media and how they handle discussing it.
Studies like this are often pliminary. You have to have something to show in order to get grant money to investigate further. Upon further investigation they might find these two things are nothing more than a correlation but you have to have at least that in order to pursue more funding.
But then here comes the media who are seeking viewers and ratings. Most people are not going to understand, let alone tune in for "Studie shows correlation between flu and autsim but not much more than that until further funding can be secured" but you sure will stay if they say "Contracting the flu when pregnant, are you putting your baby at risk?"
This shouldn't even, IMO, be news yet. The real news is probably not going to arrive until decades into the future.
However I do agree that this is good because it starts to turn away attention from vaccations cause autism. There has been too much funding given to that despite decades of research showing there is no link whatsoever. There needs to be more funding given to other possibilities.
That's not to say vaccination studies wouldn't get funding, you can pretty much get funding if you try hard enough for just about anything. But that line of research should not get near the amount of funding it currently does.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 12, 2012 11:26:59 GMT -5
I think they're worried that autism rates are skyrocketing and scientists have no idea why. THIS. Funny thing, the only flu shot I've had in my life (excluding possible childhood ones) was when I was pregnant with DS (who has high functioning autism). Doesn't the flu shot cause the flu in a small number of people (or something like that)? Anyway, when my mind spins and spins over what could have caused the autism, I often think of that flu shot - though it's probably not the cause. There's nothing worse as a mother than to wonder if something you did ended up hurting your child. NO! The flu shot is a dead virus. Now, inducing your body to mount an immune response at produce some flu like symptoms, but you do not get the flu. Either that, or you were exposed to the flu and got the flu shot while you were incubating the virus.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 12, 2012 11:29:51 GMT -5
Ever had a kid who had a reaction to their shots? Fever, or sick for a day or two? Mine didn't always react well to shots, but the pediatrician didn't feel the reaction was "severe" enough to discontinue or postpone the shots. If I had it to do over again, I would've had more spacing between the shots, or possibly postponed some doses until they were older. I don't believe in skipping vaccines completely, but you must admit the kids get WAY MORE shots than our generation did. I found my own vaccination records when I was cleaning out Mom's house, & compared it to my kids records. Holy carp!!! Huge difference. There are more vaccines available now.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 12, 2012 11:30:45 GMT -5
Oh Mich, don't go there. By the way did you watch the Curiosity episode about viral infection? It was really awesome. I am starting to think I missed my calling, I should have been a virologist or a cellular biologist. I love those subjects.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 12, 2012 11:31:46 GMT -5
I think the problem, personally, isn't so much the research but the media and how they handle discussing it. Studies like this are often pliminary. You have to have something to show in order to get grant money to investigate further. Upon further investigation they might find these two things are nothing more than a correlation but you have to have at least that in order to pursue more funding. But then here comes the media who are seeking viewers and ratings. Most people are not going to understand, let alone tune in for "Studie shows correlation between flu and autsim but not much more than that until further funding can be secured" but you sure will stay if they say "Contracting the flu when pregnant, are you putting your baby at risk?" This shouldn't even, IMO, be news yet. The real news is probably not going to arrive until decades into the future. However I do agree that this is good because it starts to turn away attention from vaccations cause autism. There has been too much funding given to that despite decades of research showing there is no link whatsoever. There needs to be more funding given to other possibilities. That's not to say vaccination studies wouldn't get funding, you can pretty much get funding if you try hard enough for just about anything. But that line of research should not get near the amount of funding it currently does. This drives me nuts! The public media ALWAYS makes more out of studies than what the scientists say......and I can think of a dozen confounders as to why there may be a a link between the flu virus and autism. Quite frankly, the stats look much better for the link between older fathers and autism than they do for this.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 12, 2012 11:34:14 GMT -5
If you look hard enough you can find links between just about anything. Doesn't mean that it is going to lead anywhere. My former PI has had a lot of false leads over the span of his research but you need to have something to write a grant proposal on. I can imagine the headaches if every single time he investigated a link it was broadcast all over the television as the cause of congential deafness. It also does a lot ot undermine science in the eyes of the general public and make us look like we don't know what we are doing.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 12, 2012 11:37:38 GMT -5
Oh Mich, don't go there. By the way did you watch the Curiosity episode about viral infection? It was really awesome. I am starting to think I missed my calling, I should have been a virologist or a cellular biologist. I love those subjects. Nope, missed that. I got an email on my list serve for a position at the CDC that fit my qualifications perfectly. All that I could think of is that I am in no shape right now for the job....dammit! If I was 10-15 years younger I'd have jumped on it (but them, I would not have the experience they wanted). But it was very much up my alley, it was almost as if they had copied the requirements off my CV.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 12, 2012 11:41:29 GMT -5
If you look hard enough you can find links between just about anything. Doesn't mean that it is going to lead anywhere. My former PI has had a lot of false leads over the span of his research but you need to have something to write a grant proposal on. I can imagine the headaches if every single time he investigated a link it was broadcast all over the television as the cause of congential deafness. It also does a lot ot undermine science in the eyes of the general public and make us look like we don't know what we are doing. Absolutely. I imagine that between 70-80% of our data is negative, or not significant. I've gotten very good at drawing a picture out of negative data, but negative data is one more thing that others can eliminate when looking at a project.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 12, 2012 11:41:36 GMT -5
I'd still go for it. If your CV is a perfect match maybe they will be willing to work with you. And at least you can say you applied for it. I'm still kicking myself over not going for a ConAgra job, I let DH talk me out of it. It would have been just another technician position to start with but that could have been my ticket out of academia. I matched their requirements perfectly. I may not have got the job, but now I'll never know.
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