djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 9, 2012 14:08:19 GMT -5
And a lot of people who didn't have the horrible experience accomplished this by bowing to peer pressure, slacking off in school, and engaging in all kinds of idiotic and risky behavior. The schools aren't failing because the kids have gotten dumber. They're failing because the kids aren't trying, and unrestricted peer pressure is a big part of this. In many schools, it is nearly impossible to excel without becoming a target for systematic abuse. they are also failing because the work is unengaging and the oversight is minimal. half of that problem is solved by homeschooling, for certain.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Feb 9, 2012 14:08:32 GMT -5
It is more like idiot parents pass their idiot skills onto their children. Breeding might have something(I wouldn't say a whole lot) to do with their capability, but I think you can teach the majority of children to be smart. kids are pretty much naturally smart, ime. the trick is to not teach them to be dumb. I take mine back, I like your line better.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 9, 2012 14:09:06 GMT -5
When you go to public schools you are still influenced by bullies, in home schooling you more than like to just have friends. Not quite sure I buy that because assholes are assholes no matter where you go and there is usually at least one of them in every group. Especially with social media nowadays it's really easy to end up in a social drama you never intended to get into. Just look at P&M. I suppose I can swallow that if you homeschool you are possibly more on top of who your kid is hanging out with and the nature of the group. But I think you can do that with public school as well. Not saying that you can't do that in public schools, but good luck with that. If my parents tried to keep up with my friends they would have had heart attacks. Dang the PM boards and them making me cry............... ;D Did you guys see what Reasonfreedom is wearing today? What a dork!!!
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 9, 2012 14:10:36 GMT -5
In school, you are trapped in a room with 20+ other people and have no say in who is in your class. Your circle of friends, on the other hand, are people that you picked. And even if your parents make you join a baseball team where everyone is a tool, you generally don't spend anywhere near the amount of time at baseball practice as you do in school.
This is the advantage of homeschooling with activities, there will still be exposure to bullies and 'bad apples' but it won't be an all day thing, unless it is a sibling.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 9, 2012 14:11:14 GMT -5
And kids who don't get support at home are a heck of a lot more likely to be swayed by peer pressure. I agree with that. me too. but it is also true that peer pressure is not a NECESSARY factor in school. it is actually not that hard to root it out, and eliminate it. all that you have to have is a top to bottom intolerance of it, and it is amazing how little of it takes place. instead, the peer pressure becomes "how can i be a better student"- EXACTLY the kind of pressure you want for developing healthy superego.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 9, 2012 14:13:13 GMT -5
my son is learning Latin, Mandarin, Spanish, as well as studying Math, Literature, History and Science - oh, and taking cello lessons and theatre. how does that sound like a day at home? as i say, there is NO WAY i could teach him as much as he is learning in his school, but i know that he is in an exceptional school. Dj, your son is in a private school right? yep. but lone said "school", not "public school".
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EveryWhichWay
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Post by EveryWhichWay on Feb 9, 2012 14:13:47 GMT -5
I can see it lulling some parents into a false sense of security because you'd never suspect what is really going on at "Bible study". My son loved going to Bible study, he said that's where all the dirty girls were
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 9, 2012 14:14:14 GMT -5
Zibazinski-interesting observation about religious schools. Our high school sending district incorporates several catholic schools and my kids (public school) always said that the catholic school kids were generally better students (better study habits-always prepared for class etc. etc.) I'd imagine it all depends on the area in which you live and the particular schools. And I agree with the homework theory-speaking to several retired teachers they commented that they always felt if they needed to give a lot of homework, they weren't doing an adequate job of teaching in their classroom. more importantly, there is no evidence that homework improves aptitude. so we are torturing our kids for NOTHING.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 9, 2012 14:15:16 GMT -5
We are considering homeschooling for our kids and some of the reasons, for me, personally are that schools are spending/wasting way too much time and resources on things that have nothing to do with education.
And when it comes to actual education, in effort to make things "fair and equal" for everyone, they are dumbing down (is that a word?) the already fairly easy curriculum.
So, what would be the point of sending the kid to school, only to have to re-teach or teach him additional things at home? I am lazy, I would rather do it once, in a shorter period of time and go watch Oprah or something.
Lena
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 9, 2012 14:15:37 GMT -5
My son loved going to Bible study, he said that's where all the dirty girls were Didn't you guys see "Grease"? The public school guys were banging the Catholic school girls because they put out.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 9, 2012 14:15:41 GMT -5
Sometimes it's because parents who pay have skin in the game that their students do better in school. oh, i would say nearly always. a detached parent means that the teacher and the student will have to "lead" and "discipline", and candidly, that is not their role. if they do it, AMAZING- but that would be a rare exception.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Feb 9, 2012 14:15:53 GMT -5
Not saying that you can't do that in public schools, but good luck with that. If my parents tried to keep up with my friends they would have had heart attacks. Dang the PM boards and them making me cry............... ;D Did you guys see what Reasonfreedom is wearing today? What a dork!!!
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 9, 2012 14:16:03 GMT -5
Sometimes it's because parents who pay have skin in the game that their students do better in school. That's how it was at the Catholic high school I attended. Shoestring budget, archaic equipment, and a lot of teachers that wouldn't have lasted a week in public school. But there was discipline inside the school and parental support outside the school (both of which are free), which meant we were able to get a great education in a safe environment.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 9, 2012 14:17:29 GMT -5
My son loved going to Bible study, he said that's where all the dirty girls were Former I am sorry about what happened to you and taht it has left so much damage behind, but did you ever stop to think that it isn't public school in general but the specific school/school system/area you lived in that caused you to have such an experience? I was an all around geek and I came across the occassional bully, especially in middle school but I was never in a situation like you describe especially all the way thru grades K-12.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 9, 2012 14:18:25 GMT -5
We are considering homeschooling for our kids and some of the reasons, for me, personally are that schools are spending/wasting way too much time and resources on things that have nothing to do with education. And when it comes to actual education, in effort to make things "fair and equal" for everyone, they are dumbing down (is that a word?) the already fairly easy curriculum. So, what would be the point of sending the kid to school, only to have to re-teach or teach him additional things at home? I am lazy, I would rather do it once, in a shorter period of time and go watch Oprah or something. Lena i think public school works for some kids. just not mine. my son has ADHD, so he requires a stimulating environment where he is not required to sit still for two hours at a stretch. lots of kids are really docile and well disciplined. with strong parental engagement, they seem to do just fine in PS.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 9, 2012 14:18:50 GMT -5
How old is your son, dj? Sounds like he's quite a boy! Varied interests and the good fortune to be able to pursue them.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 9, 2012 14:21:23 GMT -5
I also went to public school, and did very well in school. Other than an occasional asshole, I really didn't get bullied.
The people that were bullied generally weren't the smart ones, they were the dumb uncoordinated ones with no social skills. And it was a poor rural district, so it's not like we were dealing with the high achieving kids of professionals as the typical student.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 9, 2012 14:21:25 GMT -5
How old is your son, dj? Sounds like he's quite a boy! Varied interests and the good fortune to be able to pursue them. he turns 12 in April. i think the biggest thing he has going for him is that he doesn't watch TV and doesn't play video games. that frees up countless hours per week for things like learning Hebrew (outside of school).
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 9, 2012 14:27:23 GMT -5
I had homework and it was a useful tool. We started it in class and showed it to the teacher, especially math, so she could see that we understood the lesson. Not anymore.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Feb 9, 2012 14:28:13 GMT -5
What?!?!?!? No TV? No video games? That poor, deprived child (says the person who grew up with no TV or video games, and has every intention of limiting her children's exposure to them as well).
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Feb 9, 2012 14:29:13 GMT -5
I also went to public school, and did very well in school. Other than an occasional asshole, I really didn't get bullied. The people that were bullied generally weren't the smart ones, they were the dumb uncoordinated ones with no social skills. And it was a poor rural district, so it's not like we were dealing with the high achieving kids of professionals as the typical student. I am public school product too and my experiences were similar to yours. Some bullying occurred but none too bad to permanently scar me for life. I am glad I lived nowhere near to where formerroomate lived. Sounds like hell of a school district.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Feb 9, 2012 14:32:27 GMT -5
Dj, your son is in a private school right? yep. but lone said "school", not "public school". Yeah, was just confirming because I thought you mentioned that before. If not I was going to move to near where you live to get into that public school. lol
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Feb 9, 2012 14:35:18 GMT -5
How old is your son, dj? Sounds like he's quite a boy! Varied interests and the good fortune to be able to pursue them. he turns 12 in April. i think the biggest thing he has going for him is that he doesn't watch TV and doesn't play video games. that frees up countless hours per week for things like learning Hebrew (outside of school). GEEEBUS!! Hebrew, now I am jealous. Mind adopting a 32 year-old kid?
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Feb 9, 2012 14:35:23 GMT -5
I was always told "If it don't kill you it will make you stronger". I think sometimes the pendulum is swinging to far the other way now when I hear what some people consider bullying.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 9, 2012 14:35:48 GMT -5
I have to say, though, that out of all the reasons why I like the homeschooling idea, prevention of bullying is not one of them.
Well, I haven't been flamed for awhile, so getting ready of it - but here is the thing: I can not imagine my kid being repeatedly bullied in school and me either 1) not know about it and/or 2) not do something about it. The cruelty of children always was and always will be there. Isn't it our job, as parents, to prevent our child being harmed by it?
Lena
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 9, 2012 14:45:09 GMT -5
Acutally, Drama, my elementary school years were in a christian school run by some very nice people. I just happened to be born in the 'Dumb asshat' year. The 6th grade teacher took the year off to avoid us. Can't say I blame her. My classmates were jerks.
But let's face facts here, schools where being the class brain make it harder (if not impossible) to avoid being targeted far outnumber schools where being the class brain make you popular. In college, I met a lot of people who didn't do well in school, not because they didn't want to, but because they just weren't willing to pay the price I paid to excel. My experince is far from uncommon.
When I went to high school, there was tracking, so us nerds got to be segregated from the deadheads. It was a whole different world, where studying until 3am was the norm, a kid who wore a pocket protector didn't get teased, and we all oohed and ahhed when a kid came in with a graphing calculator. It was a blast.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 9, 2012 14:47:09 GMT -5
I kind of agree with this statement. Not that I want my kids to get hurt, but learning how to navigate social interaction where someone isn't very nice is a integral part of life.
I repeat, I don't want my kids harmed or bullied, but I also want them to realize that not everyone is nice, some people will be mean, and that you just have to deal with them.
Tell me again why I had kids?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 9, 2012 14:48:41 GMT -5
Really?! You think people of average intelligence are deadheads? If that was your attitude, I can see why you got beat up.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 9, 2012 14:49:09 GMT -5
"I was an all around geek and I came across the occassional bully, especially in middle school but I was never in a situation like you describe especially all the way thru grades K-12."
I went to a public school k-12.
I was never really popular, and kind of a geek in school. I don't recall being bullied. I do remember being "picked on" in elementary school, but nothing more than name calling. That stopped almost entirely once I got to middle school. In my entire 12 grades, I only recall getting hit once, from behind. Hurt like hell, but I lived, wasn't a big deal. A bit a name calling in elementary school and getting hit once in high school, I'd say bullying, if you can even call it that, wasn't really a problem for me.
Though I'm a relatively big guy, I was always bigger than most of my classmates. That might have had something to do with it too.
But by the time I was in high school, I wouldn't put up with that crap. A couple of times someone tried to intimidate me, but just showing I wasn't afraid of them usually caused them to back off. Bullies thrive on your fear and gett a reaction. If you give them neither, they quickly lose interest.
As an aside, in public school, I never knew a single person on a mind altering drug. Just depends on the school. Not all public schools, or private schools, or home schools, are created equal.
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jupe36
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Post by jupe36 on Feb 9, 2012 14:50:03 GMT -5
whoisjohngalt-you are so right about trying to equalize things. Our school had a few programs for kids who were overall excellent students and a massive curriculum for students who had problems. The average student got the average education. I read an article once about gifted children which compared putting a gifted child into a regular classroom the same as putting a child with average abilities into a special ed classroom. It really gave me a new perspective on the situation.
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